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What Is Papal Tiara

Why are some people on these blogs so fascinated with an obsolete custom in the Roman Catholic Church--namely the Papal tiara--that ceased over 50 years ago?

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 ---Cluny on 5/3/16
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\\Also Salvation has always been by Grace.\\

Who's been saying otherwise?

Not I.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/6/16


Samuel BB said, "Cluny had demanded that I show from Orthodox sources that Leviticus 23:1-3 was about the Seventh day Sabbath. He insisted he was not."

Please read verse 4 of the same chapter. It says These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Lev 23 is talking about special Sabbaths, not the 7th day Sabbath. Most of them do not even show up on Saturday!
---Monk_Brendan on 6/5/16


Monk Brendan

I keep finding out new stuff.

Romans 6 is the answer to your question. We are new creations to live new lives. But sin which is breaking the law in both the written phase and the new meaning as Jesus stated in Matthew 5 are not to be done by Christians.


Romans 6:15

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Also Salvation has always been by Grace. Since no one can work to save themselves. Grace was shown in the Old Testament by the Temple services which pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/16


Samuel BB said, "As a Monk you probably keep Sabbath on both days."

Samuel, we have services every day, not just Sunday or Sabbath.

"What my problem is that the Bible says to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath. So I give the information to others and it is up to them to decide what to do."

Rom 6:1-3What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

If the old Samuel is dead, why does the new Samuel need to follow a dead Law?
---Monk_Brendan on 6/4/16


Sorry Monk Brendan.

Cluny had demanded that I show from Orthodox sources that Leviticus 23:1-3 was about the Seventh day Sabbath. He insisted he was not.

As a Monk you probably keep Sabbath on both days.

What my problem is that the Bible says to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath. So I give the information to others and it is up to them to decide what to do.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/16




Samuel BB said, "It took me awhile to find this one. So your turn. Show me one that says it is not the Seventh day Sabbath. You are the one making that contention. You prove it."

What I have said to Jerry I will say to you.

If you feel that it is necessary to worship on Saturday, go ahead. But please give us the same courtesy that we extend to you.

I have not asked you to PROVE that Saturday is the Sabbath. It is, and I accept that. But when Jesus died on the cross, the LAW that one must keep the Sabbath was nailed to the cross with Him, and died at the same time. That is what I have been saying all along.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/2/16


cluny: "Now, when you give me Orthodox writers who support your opinion, I'll listen."

How about Moses and the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles? Orthodox enough for you?



---Jerry6593 on 5/30/16


No it is not reasonable. They are hard to find and a number of them require you to join and register.

But I finally found one that I can use. I don't have the funds to purchase the books that many are selling. Also you should have better resources then I do. You are Orthodox.
FR. TADROS Y. MALATY ST. GEORGE'S COPTIC ORTHODOX CHURCH SPORTING - ALEXANDRIA EGYPT page 28

Holy Convocations: Leviticus 23 1. The Sabbath: It is focused upon as a joyful feast, and as a rest in the Holy Lord, Christ our Sabbath.

It took me awhile to find this one. So your turn. Show me one that says it is not the Seventh day Sabbath. You are the one making that contention. You prove it.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/30/16


\\When you told me Leviticus 23:1-3 didn't apply to the Sabbath I explained why it did and have backed it up three times now with multiple sources.\\

I'm saying that Leviticus 23:1ff are not talking about the WEEKLY sabbath.

Now, when you give me Orthodox writers who support your opinion, I'll listen.

Fair enough?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/29/16


Cluny I have presented many verses that say the Bible is the final authority.

You just say I am wrong and don't explain how.

When you told me Leviticus 23:1-3 didn't apply to the Sabbath I explained why it did and have backed it up three times now with multiple sources. I don't know if you have missed them But they are the blog go to church daily.

So my question is why are you not refuting the passages and posts I make?

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/29/16




monk: "Sola Scriptura does not balance with John 21:25."

Of course it does. Just because the Bible does not record ALL the acts of Christ, that does not mean that what is recorded may be countermanded by man's opinions. Martin Luther's claim that the Bible, and the Bible only, shall be our rule of faith is as valid today as it was in his day. Besides, the Bible is the ONLY common frame of reference by which you and I can have discussions.


---Jerry6593 on 5/29/16


\\With regard to his last feigned outrage, he has repeatedly disdained Sola Scriptura, \\

Which the Bible itself does not support.
---Cluny on 5/21/16

Which you cannot show that it doesn't or you would. You like to be the challenger but then run and hide. Coward.

Now you act sarcastically brave...but, you never reply or post scripture answering to scripture of over 55 prophets, 12 Apostles and Christ.
You can't.
You have not one answer to them...except from your doctrines of men un-orthodox traditions.
Jer 30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
Psa_46:6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
---Trav on 5/26/16


Brendan: "Rather I have tried to balance Scripture and tradition."

Why? Do you consider them of equal weight? If so, then your estimation of Scripture is malleable, and subject to revision as the opinions of men change. That is not a firm foundation. The Word of God IS a firm, unchangeable foundation.

The Eastern Mystic religions also try to balance good with evil (Yin & Yang). But it doesn't work.

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.



---Jerry6593 on 5/26/16


...please give me Book, Chapter and Verse of where the Bible says that one should believe ONLY in the Word of God, and nothing else.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/21/16

We can't trust you or your pope/papa...so Israel needs witnesses in writing.
Jos_21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel, all came to pass.
Isa_45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Jer_30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
---Trav on 5/25/16


Jhn 21:25

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

This does not bother Sola Scriptura at all. I am glad you read those psalms. It is great to read the Bible Monk Brendan.

We cannot balance traditions with the Bible. We can only subject all traditions to the Bible. For to make them equal lessons the Word of GOD to be even with the ideas of men.

We have some traditions in my church. But they deal with how we hold church and run our church. Topics the Bible doesn't give us.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/16


I am not at all fascinated with the obsolete custom in the Roman Catholic Church--namely the Papal tiara--that ceased over 50 years ago.
---john1944 on 5/23/16


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Can we get back to the original question of this blog?

PLEASE?

Nobody seems to have tried to answer it.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/16


Samuel BB said, "Read Psalm 1, and 119."

Thanks, I do, frequently.

"Isaiah 8:20...

Sola Scriptura is the teaching that all doctrine and all prophets are subject to scripture today.

Deu 30:10..."


Sola Scriptura does not balance with John 21:25.

I'm sure that your church has traditions, and that those traditions are very important to you.

BTW, I don't believe that I have ever said that traditions are above Scripture. Rather I have tried to balance Scripture and tradition.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/23/16


Samuel BB said, "Here are some of the verses...

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."


Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, who did everything for show. In Matt 23 Jesus devotes quite a bit of time excoriating the Pharisees.

I have admitted that there have been bad men in the Church, but the Catholic Church itself is not corrupt, because the Holy Spirit is not corrupt.

Jesus gave that promise in Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/23/16


Monk Brendan

We had long discussions on this topic before you joined. So you have not seen this evidence before.

Read Psalm 1, and 119.

Also I am answering you on two different blogs.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Sola Scriptura is the teaching that all doctrine and all prophets are subject to scripture today.

Deu 30:10
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/16


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Here are some of the verses.

John 10:35 ...the scripture cannot be broken,

Galatians 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,...

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/16


Samuel BB said, "So if Sola Scriptora is correct which I have shown it is many times..."

When? I know I've asked you this before, but please give me Book, Chapter and Verse of where the Bible says that one should believe ONLY in the Word of God, and nothing else.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/21/16


\\Samuel: While I appreciate your good intentions, our friend cluny has told many lies about me with never a word of apology from him, though I've asked for it repeatedly.\\

Be specific, Jerry.

What lies have I told about you.

\\With regard to his last feigned outrage, he has repeatedly disdained Sola Scriptura, \\

Which the Bible itself does not support.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/16


Monk Brendan You are partially correct. When the Bibles were handwritten in Latin it was unreadable to most. But there were groups who would hand copy portions of scriptures in local languages and hand them out for free. In France and some other countries those caught with those portions of the Bible were deemed heretics and taken to the inquisition courts. Mostly because it was the Waldensians who did this.

In 1487, Pope Innocent VIII issued a bull for the extermination of the Vaudois. See Wikipedia and the History of Protestantism by Wylie.

The Catholic Encyclopedia has a long passage on Heresy.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/16


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Jerry said, "...the Roman church who withheld the Bible from the laity for centuries because it proved false her man-made doctrines."

Try to understand this, Jerry, The RCC did not "withhold" the Bible from anyone. The problem was cost.

Today the cost of a handwritten Torah Scroll is $28,000.00. Who has that money? If you do, that's fine, but I'll take bets on how many of the people on these blogs can afford such. (hint, not very many)

As far as a hand written Bible, the St. John's Bible has printed a COPY of the original St. John's Bible for $385. The price of a Heritage Edition of the same Bible is not listed. The Apostles' Edition is also not listed, but there are only 12 in the world.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/21/16


Samuel: While I appreciate your good intentions, our friend cluny has told many lies about me with never a word of apology from him, though I've asked for it repeatedly. And I have indeed apologized to him in the past.

With regard to his last feigned outrage, he has repeatedly disdained Sola Scriptura, exalting the word of his church fathers above the Bible. In this, he demonstrates the same dislike (less strong than "hate") as does the Roman church who withheld the Bible from the laity for centuries because it proved false her man-made doctrines.


---Jerry6593 on 5/21/16


Jerry you are not acting in a loving and kind manner. We are to respect those we speak to in the name of Jesus.

We who are always being falsely accused should be the last to make false accusations and be first to imitate Jesus in his love for others.

I believe you should apologize to Cluny. We disagree but that is not the same as hating the Bible. Only GOD know his or our heart.
Your Brothers Samuel.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/20/16


\\cluny: Why do you hate the Bible so?



---Jerry6593 on 5/20/16\\

Liar.

I never said that. And I do not hate the Bible.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/16


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Jesus knew the hearts of the men he was talking to. We can't.

Jesus Christ loved them. In our words we are to show love.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/20/16


Trav:
What you DO say speaks loudly: slithering, culta-postle, ...
A brave man is not afraid to honestly examine evidence ...
---StrongAxe on 5/17/16

Your reply made me pause...I realized I'd sunk almost to clunys level. Thanks.
But, then our Lord called them the way he seen them. Fox, vipers, dogs, goats, etc. Slithering, vultures, cult-apostles fits. I find your good heart is for all...but more especially if they are doctrinally confused. You want to be brave but cannot take a stand with our Lord, Prophets, Apostles. I understand, living that way for my first 40. Be hot or cold. Lukewarm is, well...lukewarm.
Rev_3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
---Trav on 5/20/16


\\Cluny the discussion was no longer about the crowns.
\\

True, Samuel.

The blog got waylaid, but the actual question I asked was never answered.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/16


cluny: Why do you hate the Bible so?



---Jerry6593 on 5/20/16


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Jerry6593:

To support Sola Scriptura, you quoted Isa 8:20.

This must be interpreted narrowly (i.e. "if it contradicts scripture, it is to be rejected"), and not widely (i.e. "if it isn't in scripture, it is to be rejected"). Otherwise, we would have to throw out our pews, hymnals, computers, cars, and even the English language, because they aren't mentioned in scripture.

Tradition may be fine - as long as it does not CONTRADICT scripture. Even SDA have their own traditions.

Almost everyone everywhere teaches traditions of men. Try a cooking or history or computer class without it. It's only a problem when someone teaches that certain traditions are REQUIRED - THAT is imposing burdens on people.
---StrongAxe on 5/20/16


Cluny the discussion was no longer about the crowns.

It was about who is right. Who is right depends on whether the traditions added by both the Orthodox and Roman Catholics can have equal authority or superior authority to Scripture.

Unlike what Kathyr states the Bible teaches it. Also Monk Brendan you and I have agreed a number of times. So the SDA does agree with Roman Catholics and the Orthodox on some Bible issues.

Jerry pointed out that Jesus opposed those who placed tradition above scripture.

Read again where Jesus turned to It is Written. Also that man must live by all the words of GOD.

By the way I am getting used to the New Computer my son bought us.

Agape to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/19/16


Samuel. you dragged Sola scriptura into a discussion of the papal tiara--but **I** obfuscate things?

That's unworthy of you.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/16


Cluny don't obfuscate the issue.

Sola scriptura (Thanks for the spelling correction) Means all doctrines must be from the Bible and we are not teach against what scripture states.

That scripture is the final authority in all doctrinal teachings. Not in how we hold, or where we hold church.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/19/16


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\\So if Sola Scriptora is correct which I have shown it is many times. That Protestants have a point. ---Samuelbb7 on 5/8/16
\\

NOBODY really believes in Sola Scriptura (note the proper spelling)--not even the SDA.

If you did, you wouldn't have hymnals, buildings, chairs, pulpits and other church furniture.....The list goes on.

You wouldn't even have a Bible, because there's nothing in there about having your own copy.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/16


Nicole: "But, NO WHERE in the Bible states Scripture only.
Protestants made that up."

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


"Even Jewish people believe more than Scripture."

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.


"BTW, Scripture states Scripture and Tradition"

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.



---Jerry6593 on 5/19/16


So if Sola Scriptora is correct which I have shown it is many times. That Protestants have a point. ---Samuelbb7 on 5/8/16

But, NO WHERE in the Bible states Scripture only.
Protestants made that up.

Even Jewish people believe more than Scripture.

BTW, Scripture states Scripture and Tradition
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/18/16


Trav:

what you don't say and avoid speaks as loud as what you do.

What you DO say speaks loudly: slithering, culta-postle, vul-ortho, vul-cluny, etc.

But, then Eloy was not a coward, always man enough to put you in your place.

A brave man is not afraid to honestly examine evidence that challenges his beliefs, which Eloy refused to do when his pet beliefs were disproved (e.g. Enoch wrote the Pentateuch, Eloy means 'my light', Jesus was born on a specific hour of Dec. 25, Jesus never quoted from the Septuagint, Dutch existed in the 1st century, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 5/17/16


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Trav said, "We Will discuss your cult anytime we choose."

Fine! Let's talk about how, instead of being obedient to God, you have walked against His Church, against His chosen and anointed ones, and have dumped garbage on the name of His mother!
---Monk_Brendan on 5/17/16


When you can all agree on all the possible points of theology between your own denominations, then you can talk about Cluny, or me.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/10/16

We Will discuss your cult anytime we choose.
Now since I belong to no denom of faulty men, the only thing you can attack or ignore is scriptures I post. Which you've done in slithering form similar to your ecumenical apostle cluny. Your newest/oldest culta-postle is an old hand at the game. But, what you don't say and avoid speaks as loud as what you do.
Isa 51:1-2 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
---Trav on 5/17/16


I will repeat my blog question, since it seems to have gotten lost.

Why are some people fixated on a piece of papal headgear that was not adopted until the 14th century, and abandoned over 50 years ago?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/16


Monk, the original jab was to Israel wasn't it? So tell me, who,else wore a. Papal tiara? The blog question is not about Israel in the first place, but the RCC. You all opened up this question about the RCC. If you don't want jabs, then don't ask such questions for the RCC to take jabs.

No one has answered any questions asked of you. You skirt around it by taking JABS at anything else to AVOID ANSWERING.
---kathr4453 on 5/15/16


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Kathr said, "Just to,point fingers at Israel's sin as an excuse for the RCC to sin was not even the subject in the first place."

No, and neither was your observation. You just had to stick your oar in to get in another jab at the RCC
---Monk_Brendan on 5/12/16


Monk , I don't care what Cluny was talking about. Cluny was not talking about Rev 17. He simply changed the subject. Tricky, but not so tricky one cannot see through.

Just to,point fingers at Israel's sin as an excuse for the RCC to sin was not even the subject in the first place.
---kathr4453 on 5/11/16


Kathr said, "Rev 17 is not about a nation or wife..."

You're right! It is about a city--which is being treated on another blog, so I will not bother with it here.

However, the Harlot in the OT that Cluny was talking about is Israel. Read Jeremiah 2:19-21
---Monk_Brendan on 5/11/16


Cluny said, "OTOH, in the OT, there is only ONE nation and people God personified as an errant and mindless harlot wife,..."///


Rev 17 is not about a nation or wife. So Munk, your verse in Jeremiah doesn't apply here. You also forgot God's promise to Israel in Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 36 and Romans 11 AND Zechariah 12-14, just to name a few.
---kathr4453 on 5/11/16


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After a totally irrelevant tirade, Trav quoted, "Rom_12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits."

But how can we be of one mind toward another, when you believe one thing, Jerry another, Leon a third, and John 9346 a fourth?

When you can all agree on all the possible points of theology between your own denominations, then you can talk about Cluny, or me.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/10/16


...VUL-TURE is from the Latin VUL-TURIUS, ... VUL-GARUS, whence VUL-GATA (or Vul-gate in English).

Has Eloy appeared under another name?
---Cluny on 5/9/16

Vul-ortho, vul-cluny, Vul-tures is a latin root fit of your cult's image...to me.
Even your mother would never have "beat" poor ol Eloy.
But, then Eloy was not a coward, always man enough to put you in your place.
He never hid in a post closet like a cat. Cluny is your cat...which thinking about it fits appropriately.
Rom_12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
---Trav on 5/10/16


According to my on-line dictionary, the word VULTURE is from the Latin VULTURIUS, and has nothing to do with the word VULGARUS, whence VULGATA (or Vulgate in English).

Has Eloy appeared under another name? He gave loony and entirely false etymologies, too.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/9/16


The Vulgate was a translation of the Bible by St. Jerome, and he made it for the common people. Like the Good News for Common Man.

Then Trav brought in an argument from another blog where I had said that "vulture" has nothing to do with the issue, so he went on with an explanation of the beast and the word's sources. However, Trav used the word vulture first! All because he wanted another jab at the RCC
---Monk_Brendan on 5/9/16


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Trav, the word "vulgar" does come from the Latin "Vulgate."

Monk: "Vulture" has nothing to do with the argument.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/8/16

There is no argument, you missed the fact that Vulgate, Vul-gar, Vul-ture, rcc, have same latin root/base.
Etymology: 17th Century: from Medieval Latin Vulg & #257,ta, from Late Latin vulg from Latin vulg & #257,re to make common, from vulgus the common people.
Vul-ture...from same base. Interesting in that as a common bird...that eats Carrion, flying above the weak and dying waiting for an advantage. Sounds just like your cult. Could say they are even "tonsured", bald.
---Trav on 5/9/16


\\The point made is that many of the teachings of the RCC don't line up with the words of the Apostles in the Bible. \\

The same can be said about the SDA.

But this is why I'm Orthodox.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/9/16


I don't know. I had some of my teenage students asked what it was like ages ago when I was growing up?

True ages is not specific. So let us go with for a few centuries.

The point made is that many of the teachings of the RCC don't line up with the words of the Apostles in the Bible.

So if Sola Scriptora is correct which I have shown it is many times. That Protestants have a point.

Mat 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

All scripture came from GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/8/16


Samuel BB said, "The Roman Catholic church has been classed by protestants for ages as Babylon."

Samuel, the Protestants have no one else to blame for their own problems. All of you--from Martin Luther to EGW to Jim Bakker have all followed the Papists, but if they said yes, you said no, which means your churches are just as messed up you think our is.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/8/16


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Cluny said, "OTOH, in the OT, there is only ONE nation and people God personified as an errant and mindless harlot wife,..."

Jeremiah 2:19-21 KJV says "Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God of hosts. For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands, and thou saidst, I will not transgress, when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot. Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
---Monk_Brendan on 5/8/16


Cluny, the Woman in REV. is not described as a WIFE. And as for Protestants only being 500 years has nothing to do with the fact YOU SLL claim Peter was the first Pope. That must have been the same time John wrote Revelation. Protestants didn't write Revelation, John did. And we all know ROME was around then too. Also Revelation is prophetic...meaning things happening in the future. SO 500 years ago to,today and tomorrow is/was the future of 95ad.

Your anti-Semitic in your doctrine Cluny. The WOMAN in Rev 12 is ISRAEL. Because you misapply WOMAN in two scriptures , making the evil one Israel, and the good one Mary, of course your church would teach you such confusion not seeing itself for what it is.....a counterfeit.
---kathr4453 on 5/8/16


\\The Roman Catholic church has been classed by protestants for ages as Babylon. \\

Protestantism is only 500 years old, so compared with Christian history as a whole, anything it thinks can hardly be "for ages."

OTOH, in the OT, there is only ONE nation and people God personified as an errant and mindless harlot wife, and it's nothing Roman or western.

Think real hard. You will realize who I mean.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/8/16


Monk, the Woman in Revelation 17 represent a counterfeit CHRISTIANITY. Your list has nothing to do with Christianity.

Nimrod was the beginning of false gods. We see the RCC steeped in false gods and pagan traditions they alone brought into CHRISTIANITY. The whole structure of the RCC, even the Greek and Roman gods structure renamed Saints parallels perfectly the RCC, and the Woman in Rev 17. The picture of her is a counterfeit church wearing all the same colors and described as the OT priesthood. EXCEPT something is missing......BLUE, WHICH REPRESENTS HEAVENLY.
---kathr4453 on 5/8/16


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True Monk Brendan but those are not saying they are Christian churches.

As a Seventh day Adventist I am often called a cultist.

The Roman Catholic church has been classed by protestants for ages as Babylon.

Those are facts we have to both deal with.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/8/16


Kathr said, " Monk, I'm not a Protestant, but a Born Again Jew. I also know the OT priesthood was done away in Christ who alone is our High Priest. Those who know this also know the Woman Mother of Harlots, who's clothing etc is nothing more than an imitation of the true. No one on earth represents that imitation on earth but the RCC."

But there are other false gods that could easily fit the image of Babylon:
Durga
Astarte
Krishna
Kali
Nike
Hera
Hathor
Sekhmet
Isis
Bast
Shiva
Ishtar
Ereshkigal
Nanshe
---Monk_Brendan on 5/7/16


Monk, I'm not a Protestant, but a Born Again Jew. I also know the OT priesthood was done away in Christ who alone is our High Priest. Those who know this also know the Woman Mother of Harlots, who's clothing etc is nothing more than an imitation of the true. No one on earth represents that imitation on earth but the RCC.


Exodus 29:6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.

Exodus 29:29 And the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons' after him, to be anointed therein, and to be consecrated in them.
---kathr4453 on 5/7/16


Kathr said, "Why was there one in the first place, and WHAT was the significance? We can also ask the same question about the mitre."

I have a question to ask you. If you answer me with a straight answer, then I will try to give you a straight answer back. Fair enough?

You are a Protestant. What does it matter to you, a Protestant, WHY the Roman Catholic Pope (or other bishops) wears a mitre, or why the Pope used a Tiara?
---Monk_Brendan on 5/4/16


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Monk, Cluny didn't ask for a description of the Papal tiara, BUT the custom that surrounded it for well over 1000 years.

Why was there one in the first place, and WHAT was the significance? We can also ask the same question about the mitre. If the OT levitical priesthood, who alone wore a mitre, was done away in Christ, and certainly none of the apostles wore one, where and why and how did that TRADITION begin? Please don't answer by describing a mitre. I see no where in scripture MENS HEADS were to be covered. Only women.
---kathr4453 on 5/4/16


In my research, there are only 24 tiaras in existence at this time, so in a previous conversation where someone claimed that there was a room full of tiaras, he was wrong.

Also, the Papal Tiara has not been used by Pope Paul VI in 1963. The original usage of the tiara was a short cap worn by the Pope.

It wasn't until the 16th century that the tiara gained its present form, however the tiara evolved from that short cap to a Kalimavkion, then to a bullet shape. The crowns, lappets, ball and cross were added at later times.
---Monk_Brendan on 5/3/16


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