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Salvation Only Through Church

Why do the Catholics believe the Salvation only comes through their Church?

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 ---Lee on 5/31/16
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Brendan
If Peter was given this position of authority by Jesus Christ, why isn't His position of authority mentioned in those books written by James, John, Jude, or Paul?
---David on 6/24/16


Monk_Brendan wrote: The Catholic, Orthodox and other pre-Reformation Churches began at this time, and continue to this day.

Jerry6593 wrote: The Seventh-day Adventist Church began at Creation, suffered persecution by the RCC for 1260 years and continues to this day.

Mohammed also claimed that Islam started at creation, and that all the leaders of the Bible (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Jesus, etc.) were Muslims.

Given any particular religious frame of reference, it's easy to claim that this perspective began very long ago, and that all others are merely deviations from it.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/16


StrongAxe: Your claim that the RCC is an established, hereditary hierarchy is based on a fallacy.

While some popes have been related to previous popes, choosing a new pope has always been by election.

The idea of one city always dictating the faith to millions of Christians is also untrue, as many millions more have had different leaders in other cities, such as Alexandria, Constantinople, Moscow, and Antioch.

The priesthood is not a privilege, it is a vocation, a calling from God.

And while Judaism might be older, so is Buddhism and Hinduism, so that is just another "shotgun" argument
---Monk_Brendan on 6/23/16


Monk_Brendan:

Matt 16:18 shows that Jesus chose Peter as a leader, but makes no mention of him estabilishing a hereditary hierarchy. Throughout the Bible, God was continuously picking prophets and leaders to lead his people - and these were almost never people who inherited their position from other men.

Acts 1:15: ibid

Matt 28:18-20: Spread the Good News, yes. Establish an earthly hierarchy centered in one city, no.

Acts 2:1-39: empowerment of all believers, not privilege of a priest class that have special powers denied to most believers.

The Catholic, Orthodox and other pre-Reformation Churches began at this time, and continue to this day.

Judaism began even earlier.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/16


Brendan: "The Catholic, Orthodox and other pre-Reformation Churches began at this time, and continue to this day."

The Seventh-day Adventist Church began at Creation, suffered persecution by the RCC for 1260 years and continues to this day.



---Jerry6593 on 6/23/16




StrongAxe said, "Unfortunately, a convincing apologia is stronger when it comes from an unbiased source, e.g. "We believe this because the bible says so" is stronger than..."

Matt 16:18 This is one example of the basis for the Catholic belief that God chose Peter as the first leader of the Apostles/disciples/Christians.

Acts 1:15 This shows Peter's direct leadership of the followers of Christ

Matt 28:18-20 This shows the Great Commission, where Jesus tells the Church (His followers) to spread the Good News

Acts 2:1-39 shows the empowerment of the believers to spread the Good News.

The Catholic, Orthodox and other pre-Reformation Churches began at this time, and continue to this day.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/22/16


Trusting what the Bible says about how to be saved then we are basing what we believe in the word of GOD.

When Paul told the Jailer believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. That is the beginning. When in I Corinthians 15 Paul states that our salvation is based on believing what the Bible says about how to be saved. Then we are trusting GOD for our salvation.

I also believe we only need the Holy Spirit to go to our High Priest Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:1,2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/21/16


Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: Of course Catholics are biased. We believe that our religion began on the day of Pentecost, and has continued since then. We would be the worst hypocrites if we proclaimed anything else.

Unfortunately, a convincing apologia is stronger when it comes from an unbiased source, e.g. "We believe this because the bible says so" is stronger than "The bible doesn't say anything about it, but we believe it anyway".
---StrongAxe on 6/22/16


StrongAxe said, "Yes, but neither Jesus nor the Apostles made any mention of these. Since the RCC's authority is defined by the RCC itself, it can hardly be considered unbiased in this matter."

Of course Catholics are biased. We believe that our religion began on the day of Pentecost, and has continued since then. We would be the worst hypocrites if we proclaimed anything else.

As to the original question, Both Orthodox and Catholic belief that the same Church, unbroken until 1054, was the vessel that poured the grace of Salvation (from God) upon the world.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/21/16


Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: I was trying to point out, in as few words as I could, that just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't true.

Of course. However, I was just trying to point out that the specific scripture Nicole tried to use to justify the unique supremacy of the Roman Catholic Church does, in fact, do nothing of the kind.

The various archbishops, cardinals, or popes (or archpriests, or metropolitans, etc.) or cathedrals or basilicas belong to a wider expression of the same church hierarchy.

Yes, but neither Jesus nor the Apostles made any mention of these. Since the RCC's authority is defined by the RCC itself, it can hardly be considered unbiased in this matter.
---StrongAxe on 6/21/16




Lee, why do YOU believe that salvation comes by believing that you're saved?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/21/16


Michael E said, "What do these things have to do with salvation or the church?"

StrongAxe had said, "There is nothing there about archbishops, cardinals, or popes (or archpriests, or metropolitans, etc.) or cathedrals or basilicas."

I was trying to point out, in as few words as I could, that just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't true. The various archbishops, cardinals, or popes (or archpriests, or metropolitans, etc.) or cathedrals or basilicas belong to a wider expression of the same church hierarchy.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/21/16


Monk said
//There is no mention of computers, smart phones, automobiles,//
What do these things have to do with salvation or the church?
---michael_e on 6/20/16


Monk_Brendan:

Of course the Bible doesn't mention computers, and one cannot deduce from this that they are forbidden, but neither can one deduce from this that they are essential. My point wasn't about hierarchies being banned, but about them being necessary, as Nicole appears to suggest.

The hierarchy that is mentioned in John 17 is exactly the same as what you mentioned as not being in there. Most of what you mentioned is covered in the local hierarchy.

John 17 mentions only 1) The Father, 2) The Son, 3) All men that the father gave him. No other hierarchy. Also, popes, cardinals, etc. are not local.


Nicole_Lacey:

I know. I specifically said bishops were mentioned.
---StrongAxe on 6/20/16


StrongAxe said, "There is nothing there about archbishops, cardinals, or popes...There is no mention anywhere in the New Testament about any heirarchy above the local congregation (i.e. bishops/overseers, presbyters, deacons, and elders)."

There is no mention of computers, smart phones, automobiles, and all of the other technologies we use in the 21st Century. I know you use/believe in at least one of the listed things. Is their use banned because it isn't in the Bible? Of course not.

The hierarchy that is mentioned in John 17 is exactly the same as what you mentioned as not being in there. Most of what you mentioned is covered in the local hierarchy.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/20/16


StrongAxe, what Bible are you reading?

Paul made Timothy a Bishop.
Paul also speaks about how a bishops needs to be married once and in control of his family.

Acts, Stephen was Deacon one of 7 FORMED when the widows c/o that the Jewish widows were getting better treatment. Apostles including Paul went all over to LOCAL Churches, but sent back problems/disagreements to Headquarters Jerusalem for DESCISION in ACTS. Read ACTS

THEY ALL IN ONE CHURCH!
AS JESUS PRAYED IN JOHN 17.

The Church is like the United States States.
There is a Town/County/State/United.

But there is ONE COUNTRY. USA.

No where did Jesus suggest people should go rogue.

Not in Jesus' Church.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/20/16


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Ruben wrote: Heb 12:22-23

This speaks of Mount Zion (in the middle east) and the Heavenly Jerusalem (not of this earth), and says nothing of any earthly church city here.
---StrongAxe on 6/20/16

Strongaxe,

That' because I was not referring to a city but those who were made JUST Perfect. Rob wanted a scripture verse /they must first go...for purification...is this...in Scripture?
---Ruben on 6/20/16


Nicole_Lacey:

I wrote: There was no "one church hierarchy

You wrote: Read the whole Chapter of John 17.

There is nothing there about archbishops, cardinals, or popes (or archpriests, or metropolitans, etc.) or cathedrals or basilicas. There is no mention anywhere in the New Testament about any heirarchy above the local congregation (i.e. bishops/overseers, presbyters, deacons, and elders).


Ruben wrote: Heb 12:22-23

This speaks of Mount Zion (in the middle east) and the Heavenly Jerusalem (not of this earth), and says nothing of any earthly church city here.
---StrongAxe on 6/20/16


Not his actual words. Only the words people read between the lines....There was no "one church hierarchy".---StrongAxe

Read the whole Chapter of John 17.

Jesus is praying for ONE as HE and THE FATHER ARE ONE!

Not just Jerry, many people on CN use everything AFTER the Gospels to discount Jesus' own Words.

Jesus said you must be baptized to be Saved Mark 16:16 you all quote Romans for the famous sinner's prayer.

Jesus said several times up, down, side ways, backward and breaks it down for you all that the Bread and Wine is His Body and Blood in John 6, but noooooo, you all go past the Gospels again to tear down His Words.

Jesus is God, not Peter, Paul, John, Moses, or anyone else.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/20/16


Rob raved, "But the Catholic church...they must first go...for purification...is this...in Scripture?"

Yes,

Heb 12:22-23:

" You have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly
Jerusalem, and the countless angels in festal gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the SPIRITS OF THE JUST MADE PERFECT."
---Ruben on 6/20/16


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: BTW, why do you all always run past the Gospels in the NT to reject Jesus' Words?

Not his actual words. Only the words people read between the lines. Jesus never established his universal church in a specific geographical location (e.g. Rome), and none of the apostles in the New Testament did either. They just preached the gospel and established local congregations in various different cities. There was no "one church hierarchy".

Since the Catholic and Orthodox churches were both one before the schism, but are no longer, what objective criteria do you use to determine which of the two (Rome or Constantinople) is Jesus's "real official" universal church now?
---StrongAxe on 6/20/16


\\I can't seem to find "RCC" in my Bible. Could you please provide BCV for me?\\

I don't find "SDA" in my Bible, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/20/16


Yes Jerry, In the Gospels, Jesus states anyone who rejects the disciples rejects HIM (Jesus) and rejects the Father who sent Jesus.

NO WHERE IN THE GOSPELS did Jesus says: ONLY LISTEN TO ME.
NO WHERE!

In fact, Jesus said if anyone listens to you (Apostles) they listen to me.

John 15:20-21 if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.

You can not separate the Head from the Body. Why try. It isn't going to happen

The Church is the Body of Christ. Not any body you wish to be His body. That's Jesus call.

That's why Jesus took the time to establish the Church not the Bible before going to His Father.

BTW, why do you all always run past the Gospels in the NT to reject Jesus' Words?
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/19/16


Nicole: "Because Jesus started the RCC."

I can't seem to find "RCC" in my Bible. Could you please provide BCV for me?

Does your Bible say:

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the [RCC], and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

?


---Jerry6593 on 6/19/16


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Salvation does not flow through the church. God's children are saved outside the church and then take up their cross and follow Christ in baptism. Take for example the eunuch in Acts chapter 8. God had already touched his heart. He already possessed eternal life. When Philip came to him he was reading in Isaiah. Without God's acting first a man would have no desire to follow God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (KJV)

We are also told that without faith it is impossible to please God so in order for one to do anything pleasing unto God they must first posses faith that comes from God.
---trey on 6/19/16


Jesus was never in Rome.
Jesus is the Rock on which the universal church is built.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],
RCC was never built by Jesus.
It is an offshoot of the original.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
---micha9344 on 6/19/16


NIcole, GRACE comes only through Jesus Christ. No scripture ever states GRACE comes through the Church, or any Church, whether the RCC or the Real Church which is made up of the Body of believers who have identified with Jesus in death and Resurrection live. In reading Peters 2 epistles , you claim is your first Pope, never teaches such a thing either. Peter's letters were to the dispersed, the scattered. Jesus also said where two or three are gathered in my name He is there with them. And Paul tells us the GRACE of our Lord has been made known to all men. And Hebrews 4, to come BOLDLY to the Throne of Grace is where Jesus in Heaven sits.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/16


Because Jesus started the RCC. So naturally Salvation comes from His Church.

All graces flow through the Church to everyone as Jesus wished.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/18/16


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Monk, I'm sure Cluny appreciates you answering for him and he for you. But this was to Cluny, not you, and was not about you or your Grandmother's father or your Mother or Grandmother or Grandfather or Uncle. I know you jump in to keep things stirred up as well.

Are you Cluny and vice verse? I also know what I heard Monk.

Please stop answering for Cluny. He is of age to answer for himself, and vice verse.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/16


Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: My grandmother on my father's side was Jewish, and my mother was full blooded German. I do not dare to be for or against either, as I would then be in the state of cognitive dissonance that Jerry keeps accusing me of.

That does not follow. It is quite possible to love people and yet rightfully condemn and/or punish them for evils that they have done. E.g. parents do this to children all the time. It is cognitive dissonance to NOT do this - i.e. "I love you, so I must turn a blind eye to your evil." (which is an error the media makes all the time). Yes, we turn a blind eye to minor shortcomings of loved ones (e.g. ugliness) but not major evil.
---StrongAxe on 6/17/16


Kathr said, "I also want Cluny to state openly here that what Hitler did to the Jews and innocent inferiors to Hitlers standards was against God. And I want him to openly state he loves the Jewish people unconditionally, and always has. WHEN he does that, I will more than apologize."

Why should Cluny do this? He has never spoken pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi. He has spoken anti-Zionist, which is not the same thing as anti-Semitic. If you want to know the difference, Google it.

My grandmother on my father's side was Jewish, and my mother was full blooded German. I do not dare to be for or against either, as I would then be in the state of cognitive dissonance that Jerry keeps accusing me of.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/17/16


kathr4453:

You wrote: MarkV aka Luke, you have done your share of name calling here.

What makes you think Luke is MarkV? I certainly couldn't tell that from his writing style, and I have been here long enough that there are some people whose posts I can recognize by style, even without reading their bylines.
---StrongAxe on 6/15/16


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Luke, it's very simple. I did not ask Cluny to apologize to me...this has nothing to do with me. And we both know or YOU should, that those whose lives are hidden with God in Christ CAN WITHOUT HESITATIONS say they love ANYONE unconditionally. Why, because those hidden with God In Christ cannot hate... 1st John. If they do they are still in darkness, meaning LOST.

MarkV aka Luke, you have done your share of name calling here.

Jesus called the Pharisees vipers and snakes like their fathers. I So much of the RCC even today have continued their hatred of Jews...just like their fathers. Cluny has continually carried on that mentality here.

And what verse says the Pharisees will get a reward because they were insulted?
---kathr4453 on 6/15/16


" And I want him to openly state he loves the Jewish people unconditionally, and always has. WHEN he does that, I will more than apologize."

How can you expect someone to love someone? You could be waiting forever, if that is how long you will be alive. Now he could apologize, but you cannot make anyone love someone else. The more insults you make against him, the more rewards he receives if he is saved. I really don't know if he is or not.
---Luke on 6/15/16


I need not apologize to kathr, as God knows my heart, and my life is hidden with Christ in Him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/15/16


StrongAxe, I don't see Cluny denying being one. I don't see anyone objecting to my calling Cluny anti Semitic...interesting. But Cluny has displayed more than that here. Constantly calling others inferior to his intelligence, ETC, was just another area of the Nazi's hatred towards others. I want Cluny to apology to others here for the years of insults.

I also want Cluny to state openly here that what Hitler did to the Jews and innocent inferiors to Hitlers standards was against God. And I want him to openly state he loves the Jewish people unconditionally, and always has. WHEN he does that, I will more than apologize.
---kathr4453 on 6/15/16


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kathr4453:

You wrote: Cluny, seeing how you butchered Galatians in another Blog, you won't mind if I start calling you Cluny the Nazi will you.

The Nazis butchered much more than Galatians.

(Also, by the Golden Rule, if you think it's appropriate to call someone else a Nazi, you must also accept that it's appropriate for others to call you a Nazi. Do you?)
---StrongAxe on 6/14/16


\\Cluny, seeing how you butchered Galatians in another Blog, you won't mind if I start calling you Cluny the Nazi will you.\\

Go for it, kathr.

All you do is increase my heavenly treasure.

God bless you, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/14/16


Samuel, I don't see hatred here. Rebuke YES. Defending scripture is not hate. Twisting scripture for ones own advantage is worse than hate. The crusades cannot be justified in any way shape or form according to scripture. To twist scripture to instigate and condone murder and hate needs to be REBUKED. To justify getting money by greed, corruption or deceiving others by saying Hay, money is money is disgusting and is also hate. Hate for anothers soul. I'm not a Hari - Chrisna Samuel. We are called to REBUKE.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/16


Rob raved, "But the Catholic church...they must first go...for purification...is this...in Scripture?"

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be BURNED, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by FIRE.
1Cor3:11-15
---Monk_Brendan on 6/14/16


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Well I don't come by for a few days and this goes way off the rails.

kathyr. No matter how much we disagree with someone.

We are not to allow ourselves to be hateful. This goes for all of us.

We are followers of Jesus Christ who loves and died for everyone here.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/14/16


kathr4453:

If you are referring to the damning Planned Parenthood video, that has been shown to be a fraudulent deception. Planned Parenthood does NOT sell body parts. The only fees they collect are for incidental expenses (e.g. transportation and storage). In the original, unedited video (which has come out), the film maker repeatedly offered to buy parts (to entrap them), and they repeatedly said they don't do that - and he deceptively edited the footage to say the opposite, to suit his propaganda goals. He is currently under indictment for fraud over this video.

Damn them for what they actually do, not for fabrications of a liar. Who is the father of lies?
---StrongAxe on 6/14/16


\\ if someone got rich selling organs illegally, murdering innocent people in order to make money ( we know this does happen) you wouldn't mind accepting it? \\

And since when did the Roman Catholic Church sell human organs?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/14/16


Cluny, seeing how you butchered Galatians in another Blog, you won't mind if I start calling you Cluny the Nazi will you.

You claim Paul in Galatians is instructing Christian Gentiles to help ROME cast out Jews in Jerusalem? Does Paul say Christian Jews can stay? Or just drive them all out? Does Paul teach DOMINION THEOLOGY? Absolutely not. Does Paul teach hate towards anyone? Or superiority over anyone? Oh and Hagar and Ishmael do not represent the Jews.....DAHHHHH! And even with that Paul still never instructs Gentile Christians to go to war against anyone. He instructs Christians we are NO LONGER in the world. I see though you are still in the world.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/16


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kathr, is there a difference between "corrupt money" (your phrase) and ordinary money?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/16

You mean does the RCC see a difference? I guess Pope Francis did actually. So let me ask you Cluny, if someone got rich selling organs illegally, murdering innocent people in order to make money ( we know this does happen) you wouldn't mind accepting it? Says a lot about you. And don't say you never said that. Your very question more than suggests you see no difference, or you wouldn't have even asked such a question. So YES Cluny, there is such a thing as corrupt money. That's why they call it money laundering....dah!
---kathr4453 on 6/13/16


Kathr said, "Another politically correct thingy going on here? Jesus wasn't politically correct, and when he threw the money changers out of the temple, was that wrong in your eyes?"

The only time I have been politically correct was when, as a little boy, I was being bullied by someone twice my size. Otherwise, I have never been PC. I even use a MAC so I won't be PC with my computer ,-)

And if I'd have been Jesus, I would have thrown the money in the money changers faces before throwing them out!
---Monk_Brendan on 6/13/16


Monk B. Love and good works AND our assembling together are all good, yes, but they do make make a person saved.
---Rita_H on 6/13/16


kathr, is there a difference between "corrupt money" (your phrase) and ordinary money?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/16


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Cluny, people do watch the news right? And didn't the current Pope actually expose money laundering through the Vatican? And haven't people today oooood and awwwwd over hoe the current Pope is cleaning up corruption in the RCC? Or was that news fictitious just to make the New Pope look good? Denying known facts only makes everything you say questionable.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/16


kathr, most of the things you say are NOT truth.

\\ And it was about money ....corrupt money in the RCC. The interesting thing is, all this wealth was gotten, not by biblical standards.\\

Where did the RCC get its "corrupt" money?

How much does it have? And for what purpose was it donated?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/6/16


Kathr said, " Monk, who said telling the truth is not LOVE?..."

Telling someone they are not bound for heaven is not love.

Telling someone that God loves them IS loving.

Telling someone that they are following false leaders is love, if you do it in the right way. But if you accuse them of stalking, telling lies and so on, it is NOT loving.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/6/16


Monk, who said telling the truth is not LOVE? Another politically correct thingy going on here? Jesus wasn't politically correct, and when he threw the money changers out of the temple, was that wrong in your eyes?

Seems the new Pope did some cleaning out too. Was that unloving? And it was about money ....corrupt money in the RCC. The interesting thing is, all this wealth was gotten, not by biblical standards. And this is not just to the RCC, but many now like Benny HInn, Paula White etc are just as crooked as can be. And telling folks there being fleeced is an act of LOVE.
---kathr4453 on 6/6/16


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Steven g said, "Denominational churches own worldly assets and use 83% of their income to maintain these assets. The catholic church is worth more than 17 trillion dollars."

Let's talk about the problems you have with following God's Word. "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

And yet you don't act like you love me. I AM YOUR NEIGHBOR! Why do you not follow God's Word?
---Monk_Brendan on 6/5/16


Satan has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide christiandom up into more than 60,000 different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.

Even the word "church" has lost its meaning. Today it means a building or a denomination just by the way it's used (I didn't see you in church today"). Some would say, "I am a catholic," "I am a baptist," "I am a Mormon," "I am a lutheran,". Is Christ divided?

Denominational churches own worldly assets and use 83% of their income to maintain these assets. The catholic church is worth more than 17 trillion dollars.

Christians need to get back to basics.
---Steveng on 6/5/16


5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Sola Ecclesia is the teaching that only the church can interpret scripture and tradition. The idea that Paul passed on his apostolic authority to Timothy is not even found in scripture. in Pauls letter to Timothy we read the above, which completely debunks that notion. And I'm sure this is also WHY they became unglued when the scriptures finally did fall into the hands of layman also known as COMMON PEOPLE. Remember the BEREANS who searched the scriptures to make sure what Paul was saying was true????? ...also debunks this notion only the Church called the RCC could interpret scripture.
---kathr4453 on 6/5/16


I found an article somewhere on line that said that Sola Ecclesia is a forgotten doctrine of the Reformation.

Look it up for yourselves and argue with the Presbyterian author.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/4/16


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\\For Cluny to mention that, it must be something he and the Orthodox do. \\

Most Orthodox churches use baskets, not plates.

And in some, one merely places his offering in the basket by the door.

Shows how much you know, doesn't it?

Rob, do you think that in the typical Roman Catholic church plant, there's a tunnel between the rectory and the convent full of dead babies they conceived and killed?

I know you've said earlier that you think RCs sacrifice babies--ninth circle you called it.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/4/16


Monk Brendan, on 5/31/16, you wrote "First of all the question is wrong. Salvation comes from our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ (which is true and I don't dispute), the Catholic Church teaches that (which is a lie), it is not a power thing, nor are the Catholic Churches pagan or sold to Satan".

But the Catholic church teaches before a Christian can go to Heaven, they must first go to Purgatory for purification. Where is this found in Scripture?

Monk Brendan, I'm waiting for your answer!
---Rob on 6/4/16


StrongAxe, it was Cluny, not myself, who mentioned using a round brass offering plate is giving an offering to the sun.

This is the first time I ever heard that is my entire life.

For Cluny to mention that, it must be something he and the Orthodox do. This is just another perfect example of people being indoctrinated with paganism!
---Rob on 6/3/16


Correct Cluny The two Babylon's is a book full of errors and should be rejected. Unfortunately some still read and believe it.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/16


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Rob:

Isn't it a double standard to say that when Catholic churches use round collection plates, they are necessarily symbols of sun worship, yet when your own church uses round collection plates, it means nothing of the sort?

It's possible that some artists have created collection plates adorned with images of the sun. So what? That is artistic embellishment, of the same order as children with Hello Kitty lunchboxes. We don't burn parents at the stake as heretics for forcing their children to worship felines.
---StrongAxe on 6/3/16


Are you so deluded you think you're posting truth, Rob?

You sound like you've made an exhaustive study of either Hislop's THE TWO BABYLONS, which is full of falsehoods, or Woodrow's BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION, which he himself eventually withdrew because he realized it was so full of historical errors.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/3/16


Cluny, I'm just stating and sharing the truth.

For some reason you have a major problem with TRUTH!
---Rob on 6/2/16


\\Cluny, for you say my place of Worship gives offerings to a sun god, only proves more of your pagan mindset, and how deeply you have been indoctrinated with paganism.\\

This is EXACTLY the type of claim you make about supposed Babylonian symbols in Roman Catholic Churches.

If you resent it when it's applied to yourself, don't apply it to others.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/2/16


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Cluny, once again you failed.

Yes, my place of Worship use round collection plates I believe are made of brass.

That is all they are, collection plates. There nothing, never has been, and never will be anything symbolic about them in any way, form or manner.

Cluny, for you say my place of Worship gives offerings to a sun god, only proves more of your pagan mindset, and how deeply you have been indoctrinated with paganism.
---Rob on 6/2/16


So what Rob. They don't mean the same thing to day.

Do you worship Thor on his day Thursday?

Yes Cluny I do belong to the true church.

But the ultimate true church is those no matter their denomination who follow Jesus Christ with all their hearts and who love their neighbors.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/2/16


\\I counted at least 53 of them which are used in the Catholic Church today. You can lie and say they aren't, but there are many, many photos and videos to prove they are!!!\\

Does the church you attend have ROUND offering plates--especially made of brass?

If so, then people are making an offering to the sun, Rob.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/2/16


Monk Brendan, I've been wanting for you to ask, even though I answered many times before.

There are people who ignore what others say because they don't to hear and know the truth, and they call sharing this truth Catholic bashing.

Just this week in doing research, I came across a long list of symbols, images, and relics, that Babylon used in the pagan worship of Baal, the sun god, and other gods.

I counted at least 53 of them which are used in the Catholic Church today. You can lie and say they aren't, but there are many, many photos and videos to prove they are!!!
---Rob on 6/2/16


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I often ask people on these blogs if they believe the church they attend is the true church.

And if they do not, why do they bother attending it?

According to Christ's own words, the Church He founded has to be out there somewhere.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/1/16


Rob said, " Because they are Pagan and a stronghold of Satan!"

Rob, where did you get that information from? If you found it on the internet, 99% of the time, it is wrong. If you heard it/learned it from you pastor, mother, father or anyone else with a Protestant world view, it is wrong.

Most Catholics I know are pious. They pray a lot. They Love Jesus and their fellow man. Is that not exactly what Jesus asked us to do in Matt 22:37-39? (KJV)Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/1/16


If Catholics or any denomination believe salvation comes through their church, it's due to ignorance. Salvation is a gift from Christ to us as individuals.(ref Acts 16:30,31)
Many religious places act as if salvation is a club.
Having salvation means they are a special breed, have done more pious works, or attend church more than the rest.
Salvation is a gift of God for the despicable, ungodly, sinful, and wretched people. The good news is that means all are able to receive it,
---michael_e on 5/31/16


First of all, the question is wrong. Salvation comes from our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. The Catholic Churches teach that, and nothing else. It is not a power thing, nor are the Catholic Churches pagan or sold to satan!
---Monk_Brendan on 5/31/16


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Geraldine said, " The foundation of salvation is a direct relationship between Jesus and an individual, not the relationship between a CHURCH organization and a person. Purpose of the church is to cause that relationship of person and Jesus to happen."

Heb 10 24-25 KJV And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


Oh, then why does Paul tell us that?
---Monk_Brendan on 5/31/16


The foundation of salvation is a direct relationship between Jesus and an individual, not the relationship between a CHURCH organization and a person. Purpose of the church is to cause that relationship of person and Jesus to happen.
---Geraldine on 5/31/16


Because they are Pagan and a stronghold of Satan!
---Rob on 5/31/16


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