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Who Is Bound By The Law

Grace Rather than Law


Who is bound by the Law? If we believe that Jesus died for our sins, then we should also believe that He freed us from the Law, and gave us Grace.

Why do people on these blogs believe otherwise?

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 5/31/16
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Jerry
I think you've covered all the logical aspects of this discussion. It's well known the Catholic believer makes a practice of confessing sin. And as you said, "Sin is the breaking of the Law".

Why would someone need to confess they broke the law, if they believed, they we're not under the law? That's like stopping to pay a speeding ticket on a road with no speed limit.

But I must admit, the fact, that the Catholic believer put themselves under the law, though they may deny it, is something I like about their church.
---David on 6/28/16


Cluny:

I wrote: it looks like the church CANNOT sanction a divorce of a sacramental marriage under any circumstances.

You wrote: If it is a true marriage, that is correct.

However, there are certain defects that make a marriage totally void ab initio.


That is exactly my point. I'm not talking about divorce fixing marriages that never were, but rather divorce after legitimate marriage.

Earlier, you wrote: What's against the Christian law is REMARRYING after divorce

and I was pointing out that the Catholic church ALSO forbids the divorce itself.
---StrongAxe on 6/27/16


StrongAxe said, "Yes, they may, but only in a civil context."

Which is exactly what I said!
---Monk_Brendan on 6/27/16


\\ it looks like the church CANNOT sanction a divorce of a sacramental marriage under any circumstances.\\

If it is a true marriage, that is correct.

However, there are certain defects that make a marriage totally void ab initio.

One of the most obvious is fraud on the part of one or the other parties.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/27/16


Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: StrongAxe, that's not exactly the truth. Catholics may get divorced. This is usually done through the state.

Yes, they may, but only in a civil context. While the church has no legal civil authority to forbid a civil divorce, from what I just quoted, it looks like the church CANNOT sanction a divorce of a sacramental marriage under any circumstances.
---StrongAxe on 6/27/16




Brendan: "David and Jerry, You complain that because I am Catholic, I must follow the LAW."

I don't complain because you're Catholic, I like Catholics. I merely point out the inconsistency of saying that you're a Catholic while disavowing part of their doctrine. It would be like me claiming to be SDA while attending a rock concert on the Sabbath.

Please do me a favor and ask your superior if the Ten Commandments are binding on Catholics. I'd like to know his answer.


---Jerry6593 on 6/27/16


StrongAxe said, "Yet (while I can't speak about Orthodoxy), Roman Catholicism forbids not only remarriage after divorce, but also divorce itself."

StrongAxe, that's not exactly the truth. Catholics may get divorced. This is usually done through the state.

Getting your marriage annulled is something else again. But if you have no plan on marrying again, then yes, you can get a divorce, and still receive the Sacraments.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/26/16


Cluny:

from AboutCatholics:
The Catholic Church does not permit divorce for valid sacramental marriages. In fact a valid sacramental marriage is impossible to dissolve thereby making divorce not possible if the marriage was sacramental.

From the catechism:
2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.
Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."

So, the church recognizes that civil authorities may issue a divorce, but never accepts the spiritual validity of it.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/16


\\Yet (while I can't speak about Orthodoxy), Roman Catholicism forbids not only remarriage after divorce, but also divorce itself.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/1\\

Not really. In fact, most dioceses require a civil divorce before a person can petition for a declaration of nullity on a previous marriage.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/26/16


Cluny:

You wrote: What's against the Christian law is REMARRYING after divorce, if Jesus's words mean anything.

Yet (while I can't speak about Orthodoxy), Roman Catholicism forbids not only remarriage after divorce, but also divorce itself.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/16




David and Jerry, You complain that because I am Catholic, I must follow the LAW.
And to prove that I am right in the Center of the Catholic Church's teaching---Monk_Brendan


Complain? No, Brendan.
We come to show evidence, evidence which shows your religion to be a false doctrine, evidence so others might not be ensnared into its web as you have.

Though I have hope I could turn you to the truth, because of the nature of man, the odds are against it. Believe it or not Brendan, I like you. I like the zeal you display in defense of what you believe, and the maturity in the way in which you defend it.

Your an honorable man, and I believe most folks on this site see you as I do, even though we may disagree.
---David on 6/26/16


What's against the Christian law is REMARRYING after divorce--Cluny

Cluny
Did I say it wasn't? Again I talk to Brendan, and you answer. I'm beginning to think Brendan's a ventriloquist.
---David on 6/25/16


David and Jerry, You complain that because I am Catholic, I must follow the LAW. But the Bible says: Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

If I am dead, I am dead to the Law, and able to follow the Grace of God.

And to prove that I am right in the Center of the Catholic Church's teaching, I invite you to go to the Vatican website, find Resource Library, and you will see all sorts of Catholic documents, in a number of languages including the New American Bible.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/25/16


\\ Isn't it against the law to divorce?
\\

No.

What's against the Christian law is REMARRYING after divorce, if Jesus's words mean anything.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/25/16


Monk, sorry, I was not trying to load condemnation on you, it is not my job to do so and I did forget to use the word "rightly" but I was only trying to show you something from the words of Jesus. Carry on.
---barb on 6/24/16


Brendan: "Who can rightly condemn me?"

Only God can rightly condemn you. That is why He personally wrote Ten Commandments - so that you could tell if He condemns your actions. Even your RCC agrees that the Ten Commandments are still binding on you. But you apparently disagree with your church.

Barb is right about checking the direction of the road you are on.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.



---Jerry6593 on 6/25/16


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Brendan
If the Catholic Church believes we are not under the law, why do they take a stand, against those of the Catholic faith, who divorce? Isn't it against the law to divorce?

Your not alone in this foolishness, many Protestant doctrines teach they are not under the law, yet tell folks they must tithe, which is also a law.

Blind leading the blind???
---David on 6/25/16


Barb said, " Monk, only Jesus can condemn you. "...If you think you are on the road to Heaven with sin and foul deeds of the flesh, you might want to take a look at who you are following."

I said that no one could condemn me. I also said, Who can rightly condemn me? The Church doesn't. You can't. Before God I am a foul sinner, but by His grace I am on the narrow path to heaven. Again, who can rightly condemn me?

Now you're trying to load guild and/or condemnation on me? You can't do it either. After all, If God be for us, who can be against us? (Rom 8:31 KJV)
---Monk_Brendan on 6/24/16


Monk, only Jesus can condemn you. "And this is the condemnation that Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light because their deeds were evil." John 3:18-21. If you think you are on the road to Heaven with sin and foul deeds of the flesh, you might want to take a look at who you are following.

"And if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it our for it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should be cast into Hell." Matt 5:29.

"If I had not come and spoken unto them, they would not have sin but now they have no cloak for their sin." Matt 15:17-25. Also see John 9:39-41.
---barb on 6/24/16


Jerry said, "1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Your own Church condemns you by upholding the Ten Commandments."


Wrong, so wrong.

Who can rightly condemn me? The Church doesn't. You can't. Before God I am a foul sinner, but by His grace I am on the narrow path to heaven. Again,
who can rightly condemn me?
---Monk_Brendan on 6/23/16


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Brendan: "Jerry, by these alone you stand condemned."

Even Peter confessed that the writings of Paul are hard to understand.

Paul said:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

John adds:

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Your own Church condemns you by upholding the Ten Commandments.


---Jerry6593 on 6/22/16


Well, for one thing, Jerry, Jesus said, "This is My Body. This is My Blood."

You think He meant, "This is NOT my body. This is NOT my blood."

I simply take Jesus at His holy Word, and you reject it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/20/16


Jerry said to Cluny, "Would you care to demonstrate - from the Bible alone - where my thinking is wrong?"

You think that you must obey the Commandment about the Sabbath.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 2:23
Rom 3:20
Rom 4:15
Rom 6:14
Rom 7:4
Rom 7:6
Rom 7:25
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Jerry, by these alone you stand condemned. Want to try again?
---Monk_Brendan on 6/19/16


We are to walk in Jesus Christ. Those who live in sin are not following Jesus.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
2Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/19/16


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Cluny: "You think a lot--mostly wrong."

Would you care to demonstrate - from the Bible alone - where my thinking is wrong?



---Jerry6593 on 6/19/16


\\Sounds like Ostrich Syndrome to me. I thought you Catholics spent a lot of time worrying about sin, confession and penance. \\

You think a lot--mostly wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/18/16


Brendan: "I simply don't have to worry about it."

Sounds like Ostrich Syndrome to me. I thought you Catholics spent a lot of time worrying about sin, confession and penance. Since sin is defined by transgression of the Commandments, It seems logical that you would "worry" about them.



---Jerry6593 on 6/18/16


Jerry said, "Now that you know, please explain how as a Catholic you believe that the Ten Commandments are valid for you yet simultaneously hold that they are "dead."

As an Eastern Catholic Monk, I simply don't have to worry about it. I follow God's command about the Sabbath (which is what you seem to obsess about), because I spend hours in the chapel every day.

As far as killing, worshiping idols, lying, etc. I spend most of my time at prayer. That is why I don't have to worry about things.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/16/16


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Brendan: According to Merriam Webster, cognitive dissonance is the "psychological conflict resulting from simultaneously held incongruous beliefs and attitudes".

Now that you know, please explain how as a Catholic you believe that the Ten Commandments are valid for you yet simultaneously hold that they are "dead". The conflict must be tearing you apart.

And if the Commandments were indeed just a series of good suggestions that needn't be taken seriously, then why was it necessary for Christ to die to pay the penalty for our transgression of them?



---Jerry6593 on 6/16/16


Jerry said, "Your deflections are becoming more like cluny's. You ARE Catholic, so, by your own admission, the Ten Commandments apply to YOU. And yet you state that the Law is dead. How is this possible?"

Outside of your PSYCHOBABBLE about cognitive dissonance, (which is the stress placed on a personality when there are two different standards--Not my problem)

Yes, I believe in, and follow the 10C, but as written in Hebrew, Not Kingeth Jameseth vocabulary!

In the Hebrew (I do not speak Hebrew, so I had to do quite a bit of research), the 10C come across as chatty, rather than thundering pronouncements.
Love God,
Don't worship idols,
Keep the Sabbath, etc.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/15/16


\\"Your deflections... cognitive dissonance in the air."\\

PSYCHOBABBLE!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/15/16


Jerry whined, "Your deflections are becoming more like cluny's. You ARE Catholic, so, by your own admission, the Ten Commandments apply to YOU. And yet you state that the Law is dead. How is this possible? I think I smell a hint of cognitive dissonance in the air."

Jerry, I don't have to worry about it. I am strong in my own personality, I know Church history better than you, and I have an eagerness to love my enemy.

Try not to use big words when you don't understand them.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/15/16


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-This is one of God's commands:
Gen 6:13,14 And God said... Make thee an ark of gopher wood...
-Another:
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded...Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Shall we be obedient to God's commands or does these not fall under the Law of Christ?
How say you then that the 10C fall under the Law of Christ when Scripture is so very clear that they do not?
Why fall back to the letter that kills when we have the Spirit that gives life?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---micha9344 on 6/15/16


Brendan: "The Catholic Churches uphold the Ten Commandments, true. But YOU are not Catholic, then the Vatican website doesn't apply to you."

Your deflections are becoming more like cluny's. You ARE Catholic, so, by your own admission, the Ten Commandments apply to YOU. And yet you state that the Law is dead. How is this possible? I think I smell a hint of cognitive dissonance in the air.



---Jerry6593 on 6/15/16


Question for those who believe they are under the Law of Christ, but also believe, obedience to Gods commands are not a requirement for those under His Law.

To frame the question,
The law of Christ is to love God.
God says, "Those who love me will keep my commandments".

Question/conundrum.
How do you love God, without obedience to his commands, when God says, those who love him will keep his commands?
---David on 6/15/16


Jerry riposted (rather weakly)"Do you really believe this? The Vatican website indicates that Catholics uphold the Ten Commandments (albeit with some changes)."

The Catholic Churches uphold the Ten Commandments, true. But YOU are not Catholic, then the Vatican website doesn't apply to you. What does apply to you is St. Paul telling you that the Law is death, and that Grace is life.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/14/16


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Read Romans 6. Being under grace leads to not sinning.

What is sinning?
Romans 13:8,9 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)
Here Paul lists six of the Ten Commandments as sins.

A Baptist church had a sign. GOD gave Ten Commandments not suggestions.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/14/16


Jerry
Technically they are correct, we are not under the Law of Moses, the Law, to which Paul refers to in his teaching of the Law.

However many people are blind to the fact, the Law of Moses, was replaced with the Law of Christ. This is the Law by which we shall be judged, not by the Law of Moses (2 Thessalonians 1:8)

The Law of Christ is simple, love God and love your neighbor. But doesn't God hate sin? If he does, how can one not keep the moral Laws of Moses, and keep the Law of Christ?

According to Paul, in (Romans 13:9-10), they can not. Sadly, many will be taught this lesson on the Day of Judgment.
---David on 6/14/16


Brendan: "The Law is DEAD! ... We are now in GRACE, which knows no law."

Do you really believe this? The Vatican website indicates that Catholics uphold the Ten Commandments (albeit with some changes).

Jesus said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Paul said:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


---Jerry6593 on 6/14/16


\\Jerry asked "Do you actually think that refraining from adultery and murder, as well as honoring your parents brings death?"\\

I follow these not because they are on the Decalogue, which could NEVER bring salvation, but because they are in the NT.

Will you answer my question: Where in the NT are we COMMANDED to keep the Saturday Sabbath?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/16


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Jerry asked "Do you actually think that refraining from adultery and murder, as well as honoring your parents brings death?"

Yes, if it is done for the wrong reasons, clinging to the Law, and not understanding the love of God, our Creator.

The Law is DEAD! The Law died, with Jesus on the Cross. All of the old laws, keeping kosher, killing an ox that gored a neighbor, even keeping the Sabbath died! We are now in GRACE, which knows no law.

Acts 13:38-40
Rom 2:26-28
Rom 3:21
Rom 4:13-15
---Monk_Brendan on 6/13/16


/Do you actually think that refraining from adultery and murder, as well as honoring your parents brings death?\-Jerry6593 on 6/13/16
-Brendan's answer is irrelevant. This is what Scripture says:
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin, and the strength of sin [is] the law.
Gal 2:19,3:3,12,25 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God...Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?...And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them...But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
---micha9344 on 6/13/16


It's really curious.

St. Paul says this about the Decalogue:
"2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, "

But ***I*** am childish.

Does this make sense?

Where is keeping the Saturday Sabbath COMMANDED in the NT?

BCV, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/16


Brendan: OK, I'll ask you the same question.

Do you actually think that refraining from adultery and murder, as well as honoring your parents brings death?

Please answer.



---Jerry6593 on 6/13/16


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Jerry said, "What a childish interpretation!"

Rom 4:2-16

Read it! Take it in literally.

By the way, if you are allowed to interpret Scripture, then so is Cluny, and so am I
---Monk_Brendan on 6/12/16


cluny: "St. Paul himself said that what was written on stone tablets could bring only death."

What a childish interpretation! Do you actually think that refraining from adultery and murder, as well as honoring your parents brings death? It is the VIOLATION of the Ten Commandment Law that is sin, and that sin brings death. But Jesus came to save us from our sins (not from His Law), so that by His power, we can keep the His Law and overcome the law of Satan ("do as thou wilt").



---Jerry6593 on 6/12/16


Cluny, yes, that is exactly what Paul said. Jesus said "but if thou will enter into life, keep the commandments". Matt 19:17. Can both statements be true?

And if there is any lingering doubt we have this "Here is the patience of the saints, here are they who keep the commandments of God, and the faithfulness of Jesus". Rev. 14:12, Rev. 12:17 and Rev. 22:14-15.
---barb on 6/12/16


\\ How then can some say that they are not bound by the 10C Law?\\

St. Paul himself said that what was written on stone tablets could bring only death.

If something brings death, it cannot bring salvation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/11/16


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Jerry, I agree the blood of the Passover Lamb is offered to everyone but it purchases only those who are entered into God's Kingdom. Rev 15. God does not force anyone. IOW, many do not want to do the works or complete the requirements to enter in.

Some say they are not bound by the Law because that is what they are taught. One can argue both sides of the Law by using the words of Paul. Rom 2:13 and Rom 3:20.

I don't see Rev 12:17 as a remnant church but as the Kingdom of God coming out from all churches, a remnant born and led by the Holy Spirit. The SOP is the words/testimony of Jesus revealed to us by the Spirit of Truth and no one else.
---barb on 6/6/16


barb: "Jerry, I heard what you wrote but my understanding is that Jesus is the Passover Lamb."

More correctly, the Passover lamb is a figure or prophecy of the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. There was salvation only in the blood of the Lamb. But, that salvation is offered to ALL who will accept it - not just the firstborn.

I noted with interest your quotation from Rev 12:17 concerning the remnant church as Spirit-led Commandment keepers (Rev 19:10). How then can some say that they are not bound by the 10C Law?


---Jerry6593 on 6/6/16


/Because we aren't freed from the law. We are freed from sin.\-Samuelbb7 on 6/5/16
That's what SDA's say to bind themselves to the law and pronounce everyone else guilty by not keeping the Sabbath.
But the Bible says:
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
As shown earlier by scripture the law of the Spirit, which is life, are the 2 royal laws of liberty, the 2 greatest commandments, while the law of sin and death, of the letter, are the 10C and its associated pronouncements.
Shall we go over these scriptures again so that we may discern which law is being discussed by which passage?
2Co 3:6 ...for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
---micha9344 on 6/6/16


Because we aren't freed from the law. We are freed from sin.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law doesn't save. It leads us to Jesus and tells what is a sin. It convicts but doesn't save.

Galatians 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/16


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Jerry, I heard what you wrote but my understanding is that Jesus is the Passover Lamb. The Passover Lamb did not die for the sins of everyone but died for the firstborn of Israel only. Exodus 12. Also in Rev. 5 we see the Passover Lamb again and here He is offering entrance into the Kingdom to people from all nations, tongues etc. Later in Rev 12, we see that those who choose to enter are born from above, keep the commandments of God and have the Testimony of Jesus.

The only person Jesus promised to send to lead us into all truth is the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of Truth. He never told us to wait for direction from anyone else nor did He tell His disciples to wait but to go and preach to the world everything that He taught them.
---barb on 6/5/16


barb: "What more do we need?"

Apparently, we need understating. Paul is easy enough to understand if his writings are approached correctly. That is, the statements are to be studied in context and in harmony with the body of scripture. For example, if we say that we are not under the law, therefore we are free to transgress it, we do err. But if we say that we are not under the penalty of transgressing the law (death) because Christ has paid the price (His death), then we have a correct understanding of Paul's writing on the subject.


---Jerry6593 on 6/5/16


Most of the Bible talks about salvation. Most of the Bible talks about salvation coming through Israel, promised in covenants, with required works of the law.
Christ sent Paul to offer salvation according to the mystery without Israel, without covenants, and without the law. As a result salvation is all of Christ.
It is not that the law doesn't exist, or ceases to perform its function. It is that the law has no more hold over us, since we have been crucified and have satisfied the justice of the law in Christ!
(ref Galatians 2:20)
Our penalty has been paid, our flesh is crucified, so the law has no effect. Christ enables us to serve him in righteousness by faith!
---michael_e on 6/4/16


Jerry, how can a human being even begin to measure the intelligence of Paul to the genius of God Almighty? And are you saying that Jesus chose Paul knowing that his writings would be easily misconstrued by the very people He was trying to save? Paul proclaimed himself an apostle. Jesus does not say one word about Paul unless you want to count Rev. 2:2.

The truth is we don't need the writings of Paul to teach us about the Law/ten commandments because God has already taught us everything we need to know about the Law and He sent His Son to confirm it. What more do we need?
---barb on 6/4/16


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Peter wrote concerning Paul's writings:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,...unto their own destruction.

Paul's writings are "hard to be understood" because he was such a brilliant Hebrew scholar. When he used the term "law" it could have any of several meanings depending on context, from Moses' writings to the Levitical system of sacrifices to even a mental principle:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind ...

Many Christians mistake the end of the sacrificial system as the end of the Ten Commandments.
---Jerry6593 on 6/4/16


The law condemns the natural man, but the gospel creates a new creature, a spiritual man who walks after the Spirit. Sin is condemned through Jesus, and the old man is crucified. This spiritual inner change is just what is needed in a present evil world to deal with sin: not more laws.
The law, holy and just, can only give us knowledge of the problem. We need the gospel of Christ to change us into the spiritual creatures that are able to bear godly fruit.
Sin is not dealt with by laws, chains, and bars, but by the nails on the cross. We do not need to change or add more laws. No law can change mens souls.
---michael_e on 6/4/16


We have to balance all verses.

Romans 3:19,20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Read Matthew 5 see the law still details sin. But we go beyond not sinning. To not thinking about sin. Read Romans 13. We love so we don't go against the law.

No one is saved by the law. Everyone has only been saved by Grace. The sacrifice that was given in the OT was to point to Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/16


The question is, who is going to stand before God and throw the words of Paul in His face? If all one knows are the words of Paul and they have no clue as to what God taught thru His prophets or what Jesus taught when He brought the Word of God to earth then that person will stand before the throne of God, naked, wretched and like the man at the wedding feast, at a loss for words and therefore, speechless. Grace is of no benefit to that man.

You either believe Jesus when He said "To this end was I born and for this cause I came into the world, that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Everyone that is of the Truth hears My Voice" or you believe a lie.
---barb on 6/3/16


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Right Jerry,
Gal 3:23-25 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
---micha9344 on 6/3/16


If there is no Law, then there is no sin.

[1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.]

If there is no sin, then there are no sinners.

If there are no sinners, then there is no need for a savior.

Do you need Jesus?

[1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:]



---Jerry6593 on 6/3/16


God doesn't change (because the way of RIGHTEOUSNESS will never change).....so all the laws of goodness, peace, and righteousness remain the same).

THE LAWS of God will always beneficial to righteous living, BUT for us the PENALTY that caused death is gone because the DEVIL has been destroyed for the faithful....,the laws of sin that caused DEATH are no longer in effect...SATAN IS DEAD to us.

The law of liberty is a MANDATE, not an option (we MUST live at liberty).

If we decide to be a good student of God's Spirit, then we will be judged under/by THAT law.
Heb 2:14
---faithforfaith on 6/2/16


/James called the commandments law of liberty.\-Samuelbb7 on 6/2/16
He didn't call the 10C the law of liberty.
8 of the 10 are negative and all are passive.
As opposed to the 2 Great Laws of Liberty, which is in the "temporary Law of Moses" and not the "eternal Law of God", as proclaimed by SDA's.
Contrary to being eternal, the 10C is the "ministration of death written in stone" and "to be done away." 2Co 3:6-14
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
The 10C was our teacher, to bring us to Christ, not our textbook. Once under Christ, we are no longer under that teacher. Gal 3:24-25
Gal 3:7 ...children of Abraham.
-Before the Law-
---micha9344 on 6/2/16


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Great points Barb and Jerry.

Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.

Being under law means to live in sin.

James called the commandments law of liberty.

Paul says love keeps them. Romans 13
---Samuelbb7 on 6/2/16


The law is not bondage but a covenant of love. Exodus 20:1-2. Jesus kept the law to show us that it can be done and how to do it. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Matt 11:25-30. God did not lead Israel into bondage but into freedom and He freed them by making a marriage contract with them. Exodus 20. That marriage contract is the 10 commandments. We have the choice to keep the commandments which lead to life or to believe in the lie which leads to death.

The saints who win the victory and stand upon the Sea of Glass will be singing the "Song of Moses" and the "Song of The Lamb" Rev. 15. They are not singing "Amazing Grace". The Song of the Lamb is His testimony/words.
---barb on 6/2/16


Brendan: "it is not faith in the cross that brings salvation, it is faith in God. It is not the cross that brings the Holy Spirit, but God."

Amen!

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



---Jerry6593 on 6/2/16


"Who is bound by the Law?" Those who consider themselves as under the law."Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."
---Josef on 6/1/16


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faithforfaith:

You wrote:
The "law" that we are to observe is not an OPTION, it is mandatory that we live at LIBERTY in order that we are able to enjoy life to the fullest (there are no regulations).


Can you elaborate on just which "law" this is that is mandatory, and how we can distinguish it from the law that is an option? (Not common sense criteria, but biblical ones.)
---StrongAxe on 6/1/16


Blog answer: blinding of false prophets, especially those of the 19th c.
Regarding free from the law:
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
-What is the law of sin and death?
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin, and the strength of sin [is] the law.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones...
-What is the Law for those in Christ?
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Rom 7:4,6,2Co 3:6
---micha9344 on 6/1/16


Lee said, "As a believer you're saved by putting your faith in Christ and paying the price on the cross.... 1st Corinthians 2:2 if faith in the cross is exhibited the holy spirit guarantees victory for you. the key is the cross because it is through the cross that the Holy Spirit works Galatians 6:14"

I'm sorry, Lee, but I have to disagree with you. I understand the work that Jesus did on the cross, but it is not faith in the cross that brings salvation, it is faith in God. It is not the cross that brings the Holy Spirit, but God.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/1/16


There are different kinds of "LAW" (because they are based on different concepts).

There is REGULATORY law and OBLIGATORY/mandate law.

Col 2:20 Why do you submit to regulations

Heb 9:10 but deal only with food and drink and various ablutions, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.

Jas 1:25 But he who looks into the PERFECT law

Jas 2:12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty


The "law" that we are to observe is not an OPTION, it is mandatory that we live at LIBERTY in order that we are able to enjoy life to the fullest (there are no regulations).

Verse are from the RSV.
---faithforfaith on 6/1/16


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Jesus did not free us from the Law - He freed us from sin and the penalty of transgressing the Law (death). He freed us from the need for rituals, sacrifices, and priests, but about the Ten Commandment Law He says:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled.

Look outside. Heaven & earth are still here!



---Jerry6593 on 6/1/16


Many believe they have become part of Israel.
While the entire Bible was inspired by God for our benefit, it is not all written to the same people. God spoke different things to different people at different times. Every time it was according to his two-fold purpose.
The key to understanding the Bible hinges on our ability to discern what is written to us and what is not. This is what is meant by right division of the Bible.
---michael_e on 5/31/16


As a believer you're saved by putting your faith in Christ and paying the price on the cross. John 3:16 faith in the cross is necessary for salvation you must continue to have faith daily. This is the answer for victory over cigarettes alcohol drugs TEmper every type of immorality 1st Corinthians 2:2 if faith in the cross is exhibited the holy spirit guarantees victory for you. the key is the cross because it is through the cross that the Holy Spirit works Galatians 6:14
---Lee on 5/31/16


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