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Creation Of The Universe

Does Genesis 1 & 2 refer to the creation of the universe or just our solar system within the Milky Way galaxy?

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 ---Leon on 6/22/16
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Strongaxe, I guess I see it differently. There are several " in the beginnings" in scripture. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God". Jesus says I am the beginning and end, first and last, alpha and omega. Yet we know the meaning of that does not apply to your definition. God is without a beginning or an end. So it can't apply to a time. Genesis 1:1 cannot be the same TIME as John 1:1. And we know Angels did have a beginning, and that beginning happened someTIME between John 1:1 and Gen 1:1. And who knows what else.
---kathr4453 on 7/9/16


Strongaxe, I also believe this happened between Genesis 1:1-2

2 Peter 3:5-7

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
---kathr453 on 7/9/16


Leon wrote: "Steve: Yes, there are innumerable stars in our solar system."

Our Solar System consists of ONE sun (a star), eight planets, several moons, thousands of asteroids and a dozen or so comets. No other stars.
---Steveng on 7/9/16


Angels, stars, thrones, and galaxies were created, thus had a beginning.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created...
Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out...
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Rev 10:6 ...who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are...that there should be time no longer:
---micha9344 on 7/9/16


Leon said, "Monk: If angels don't inhabit eternity (Heaven) with God, then where are they? Also, how do you (like Cluny) know angels were created in time?"

"Eternity" means: infinite time, duration without beginning or end. Eternity is not a place. Heaven is a place, and so is Hell.

That means before there was a time in the past to all the way through until there will be no time in the future. God is the only eternal. Everything else was created. They have a beginning point.

The angels, having a beginning point in time, are not eternal. When I get to heaven (God willing) I will have unending, or everlasting life. However, seeing as how I had a beginning point in time, I can never have eternal life.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/9/16




///Leon:...you are confused as to what, exactly, the word "beginning" means. Perhaps you should consult a dictionary. If anything happens BEFORE the beginning, then the beginning isn't really the beginning after all, is it? [?] Nothing can happen before the beginning. God couldn't create anything before the beginning. It's what the word "beginning" MEANS.---StrongAxe on 6/28/16///

'Axe: Your comments to Kathr are basically the same illogical ones you directed towards me. We know what "beginning" means. However, the blog question is "the beginning" of what? You seem to think The G1 "beginning" is the beginning of everything ever created. The Bible doesn't corroborate your belief.
---Leon on 7/9/16


\\Is it not possible for God to have created them in eternity, outside of our time?\\

Only God is beginningless.

Glory to Jesus Christ!!
---Cluny on 7/9/16


///Monk: If angels don't inhabit eternity (Heaven) with God, then where are they? Also, how do you (like Cluny) know angels were created in time?---Leon on 7/8/16

Just because Monk can't tell you where the fallen Angels are located doesn't mean they are in Heaven. [?!!!]

You don't know where I am at, but you know I am not on Mars. [?]---Nicole_Lacey on 7/8/16

Nikki, really?! I said nothing about "fallen angels". I was referring only to the 2/3 angels that remain loyal to God. How do I know you're not an otherworldly creature on or from Mars? :)
---Leon on 7/9/16


kathr4453:

You wrote: To say that Gods hands were tied and He couldn't create anything UNTIL He first created TIME is nonsense. It's based on some bogus philosophy.

Perhaps you don't fully understand the fundamental definitions of the words "beginning", "before", "after", "first", "until", etc. The very word "beginning" means that nothing occurred before that time. If anything had, the beginning wouldn't really be the beginning, would it? Some other, earlier time would have been the beginning.
---StrongAxe on 7/8/16


Here's another thought. Hell was not originally created for man, but for the fallen angels. So even hell was created before the fall of man. If hell was created with man in mind, then that verse would not be in scripture since we know now sinful man will share their fate.

To say that Gods hands were tied and He couldn't create anything UNTIL He first created TIME is nonsense. It's based on some bogus philosophy.

Please back up WITH SCRIPTURES, God could not create anything until time was created. You won't.
---kathr4453 on 7/8/16




Monk: If angels don't inhabit eternity (Heaven) with God, then where are they? Also, how do you (like Cluny) know angels were created in time?---Leon on 7/8/16

Just because Monk can't tell you where the fallen Angels are located doesn't mean they are in Heaven.

You don't know where I am at, but you know I am not on Mars.

But, believe Jesus if you don't believe Monk

Luke 10:18
Jesus said, "I have observed satan fall like lightning from the sky..."

John 1:1-5
V3 All things came to be through Him, and without Him NOTHING came to be. (Angels included because they are not the Creator, but the created)

Scripture proof fallen angels are created and have fallen (demons).
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/8/16


Leon, I'm not saying that the angels--even fallen ones--die, but they are CREATED, and thus begin in time [?], unlike God....---Cluny on 7/8/16

...Nobody has an eternal viewpoint EXCEPT God, and that is because He IS eternal. Angels do not die. But they did have a particular starting point in time. They do not share eternity with God [?]
---Monk_Brendan on 7/7/16

Cluny: I agree, no doubt, angels are created beings. But, how do you know they were created in time? Is it not possible for God to have created them in eternity, outside of our time?

Monk: If angels don't inhabit eternity (Heaven) with God, then where are they? Also, how do you (like Cluny) know angels were created in time?
---Leon on 7/8/16


Leon, I'm not saying that the angels--even fallen ones--die, but they are CREATED, and thus begin in time, unlike God.

Furthermore, unlike God, they are neither omnipresent nor omniscient.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/16


Leon said, "Cluny: Might it be possible that you're defining "eternal" from a finite, human perspective that's merely to the best of your knowledge? Are you supposing Angels, e.g., Michael & Gabriel, die?"

You're proving Cluny's point for him.

Nobody has an eternal viewpoint EXCEPT God, and that is because He IS eternal. Angels do not die. But they did have a particular starting point in time. They do not share eternity with God
---Monk_Brendan on 7/7/16


///Neither angels nor atoms are eternal, but created. Only God is eternal. Glory to Jesus Christ!---Cluny on 7/7/16///

Cluny: Might it be possible that you're defining "eternal" from a finite, human perspective that's merely to the best of your knowledge? Are you supposing Angels, e.g., Michael & Gabriel, die?

As you know, the Bible says believers in Jesus will live forever (ETERNALLY) with Him in heaven. I believe only God knows what's truly eternal & exactly what that entails.
---Leon on 7/7/16


Neither angels nor atoms are eternal, but created.

Only God is eternal.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/7/16


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///...yes Cluny I suppose the angels are CREATED celestial beings with a celestial body unlike a human body existing possibly eons before we came along. So there is/ was a celestial world long before the temporary terrestrial world. And I can imagine the celestial world is and has always been something we can't even imagine.

Just likes the things seen are temporal and the things unseen ( by human eyes) are eternal.---kathr4453 on 7/5/16

Kathr: The Bible supports your comments. I think we hu[e]mans would do well to realize we're not the ultimate spotlight focus & center of the universe. Just because God made us in His image doesn't mean "other universal creatures" were made to fit into our reality mold.
---Leon on 7/7/16


1 Corinthians 15: 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another.

Another version says celestial and terrestrial.

So yes Cluny I suppose the angels are CREATED celestial beings with a celestial body unlike a human body existing possibly eons before we came along. So there is/ was a celestial world long before the temporary terrestrial world. And I can imagine the celestial world is and has always been something we can't even imagine.

Just likes the things seen are temporal and the things unseen ( by human eyes) are eternal.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/16


\\I believe the Angels were in fact CREATED before the 6 day creation in Genesis 1-2.\\

Keep in mind that angels do NOT have physical bodies, kathr.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/4/16


///Strongaxe. I believe the Angels were in fact CREATED before the 6 day creation in Genesis 1-2. Therefore something did exist...The Angels are called Morning stars. Job 38. Before stars were created. When Lucifer walked to and fro through the Garden of God all decked out in Jewels, where did those jewels come from?... We have no idea what existed before Genesis 1-2.---kathr4453 on 7/4/16///

I agree Kathr: We have no idea of what exactly existed, but the Scripture evidence clearly indicates a God created existence long before the Genesis 1 "beginning" of us...
---Leon on 7/4/16


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To reiterate:

Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.



---Jerry6593 on 7/4/16


Strongaxe. I believe the Angels were in fact CREATED before the 6 day creation in Genesis 1-2. Therefore something did exist. This TIME thing has nothing to do with anything. The speed of light travels at the same rate of speed outside of time as inside of time. Something like 300,000 miles or Whatever measurement per second. The Angels are called Morning stars. Job 38. Before stars were created. When Lucifer walked to and fro through the Garden of God all decked out in Jewels, where did those jewels come from? Earth? NO? Will the Gold streets in Heaven be mined from earth? NO? It takes TIME to walk from to to fro. Maybe not earthly time, but some kind of time. We have no idea what existed before Genesis 1-2.
---kathr4453 on 7/4/16


kathr4453:

You wrote: To say that "nothing existed" before the beginning is kind of a misleading statement.

I didn't say nothing existed. I said nothing was created, because creation is an act that takes place in time, and time only existed at the beginning of creation and afterwards, but not before. In the beginning, God already existed, but he was not created.

Since since God created "the heavens and the earth", (not to mention "by him all things were made"), presumably all things that exist in the heavens, like God's throne, would also need to have been created after the beginning too, otherwise, where would they have been beforehand?
---StrongAxe on 7/3/16


2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. Ephesians says that "Gods throne" is above ALL HEAVENS. To say that "nothing existed" before the beginning is kind of a misleading statement. It would be fair to say nothing of the TEMPORAL existed. Yet God's throne and that of the ETERNAL has always existed that humans simply cannot SEE. Just because we cannot SEE IT doesn't prove its non existance or even what it is. The Garden of God, is far superior to the Garden of Eden and Eden was made AFTER THE PATTERN of things in Heaven...aka God Throne.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/16


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///Leon: You wrote: Steve: Yes, there are innumerable stars in our solar system.

Actually, there is only one star in our solar system. It is called the sun. All the other stars we see are far away from our solar system, in solar systems of their own.---StrongAxe on 7/1/16///

You're right 'Axe. They are in other solar systems, within our Milky Way Galaxy, & are visible to us in the Genesis 2:1 "heavens". Thanks for the correction.
---Leon on 7/2/16


Leon:

You wrote: Steve: Yes, there are innumerable stars in our solar system.

Actually, there is only one star in our solar system. It is called the sun. All the other stars we see are far away from our solar system, in solar systems of their own.
---StrongAxe on 7/1/16


///..."the Genesis creation account does certainly speak to the sun, moon & stars in our solar system,.."

How many stars (besides our sun) are in our solar system?...---Steveng on 6/29/16///

Steve: Yes, there are innumerable stars in our solar system. But, the number of stars way out there, in the solar "heavens", is irrelevant to G1 which only speaks about the singular sector of "heaven" our sun & moon are placed in for the benefit of earth, & all the creatures (us included) God made to inhabit it.

I believe G2:1 speaks specifically of the "heavens", the multitude of stars (you mentioned) that God created to fill the solar system.
---Leon on 7/1/16


///Leon, you have put me in my place, you put me where I belong. You are wise. I am unwise. I pray that God will give me the grace to become as wise as you are some day.
---john1944 on 6/30/16///

John: Pray tell, just where are you? Where do you belong?

You have repeatedly shown yourself to be a very clever (cunning) fella who knows how to craftily uses subtle, honey-dripping platitudes to achieve your goal.

I pray God will, by His grace & mercy, give us both His knowledge that we may both desire to walk, as dutiful subjects, in the light of His understanding & not that of our own. Amen!
---Leon on 7/1/16


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\\Then there was a point at which God existed and nothing else?
---micha9344 on 6/30/16\\

Your question is meaningless, because God is OUTSIDE of time, which is His own creation, micha.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/1/16


Leon, you have put me in my place, you put me where I belong. You are wise. I am unwise. I pray that God will give me the grace to become as wise as you are some day.
---john1944 on 6/30/16


///Then there was a point at which God existed and nothing else?---micha9344 on 6/30/16///

Micha: You're so preoccupied with your circular argument that you're not paying any attention to my explanation. I'm getting dizzy from watching you chase your tail, so this is where I must leave you to your exercise in futility.

///Leon, I admit I'm not as smart as you. I have no idea what you're talking about here. So I won't make any more posts on this blog. Peace to you.---john1944 on 6/30/16///

John: It's not about being merely finitely smart. It's about being wise enough to willingly pay attention to what Scripture says to gain a comprehensive understanding of the structure of life within God's universe. Peace to you too!
---Leon on 6/30/16


Leon, I admit I'm not as smart as you. I have no idea what you're talking about here. So I won't make any more posts on this blog. Peace to you.
---john1944 on 6/30/16


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Then there was a point at which God existed and nothing else?
---micha9344 on 6/30/16


///...His creatures are eternal as well? for without them He wouldn't be king? God cannot exist without subjects? [?]---micha9344 on 6/30/16///

Micha: Before birth did you exist? After death will you cease to exist? "Creator" God has & will always "BE" (exist).

The Bible, primarily is about God. Apart from Him nothing exists. He introduces & reveals Himself to us in Genesis-Revelation. That is, to anyone who has ears to hear & are paying attention. God painstakingly explains how He wants a relationship with "us" to "be" in His kingdom. In Him we live & move, & have our "be"ing (constantly graduating purpose) as creatures in His universe.
---Leon on 6/30/16


/To be king one must have "subjects" (creatures) to make up the kingdom (his dominion/ realm)...God Is eternal (from everlasting to everlasting).\-Leon on 6/29/16
So His creatures are eternal as well? for without them He wouldn't be king? God cannot exist without subjects?
---micha9344 on 6/30/16


I am perfectly happy not knowing all the answers. When we get to heaven we can ask GOD about all these details.

Right now I need to be helping others and spreading the good news. That Jesus is alive after having died for our sins.

That he is coming back real soon.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/29/16


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///Leon, okay. nothing was created before the beginning. Otherwise the beginning would not be the beginning. So the angels and everything else were created after the beginning.---john1944 on 6/29/16///

Says who John, you? Were you there? :) I think this whole conversation is way beyond your comprehension or else you're likely just playing.
---Leon on 6/29/16


Leon wrote: "...the Genesis creation account does certainly speak to the sun, moon & stars in our solar system,.."

How many stars (besides our sun) are in our solar system?

Besides, this is one of those unwinable topics since we were not there the time God created everything.
---Steveng on 6/29/16


Leon, okay. nothing was created before the beginning. Otherwise the beginning would not be the beginning. So the angels and everything else were created after the beginning.
---john1944 on 6/29/16


///Leon...what came first, God or His kingdom. If you say His kingdom, who created it? If...God, then wasn't there a point at which He didn't have a kingdom? Who has the pretext?---micha9344 on 6/29/16///

Micha: SMH That's scribe-like, vain nonsense (groundless pretext). To be king one must have "subjects" (creatures) to make up the kingdom (his dominion/ realm).

God Is eternal (from everlasting to everlasting). God IS "The Beginning & The End" (Alpha & Omega) without a beginning or end. God rules ALL that was, ALL that is, ALL that isn't & ALL that is yet to be. ALL IS ALWAYS SUBJECT TO GOD! Within Him lives the SUBJECTive, creative WORD realm of kingdom possibility.

---Leon on 6/29/16


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Leon, so, what came first, God or His kingdom.
If you say His kingdom, who created it?
If you say God, then wasn't there a point at which He didn't have a kingdom?
Who has the pretext?
---micha9344 on 6/29/16


Leon:

You wrote: What's arbitrary is you & 'Axe's claims that before "the beginning" there was absolutely nothing or no one except God.

I didn't say that. I said nothing HAPPENED before the beginning. Anything that DID exist before the beginning was pre-existing - i.e. it was not created (e.g. God was not created), because such a creation would have been an action that took place before the beginning, so the beginning would NOT have been the beginning after all.

How, exactly, do you define the word "beginning", if things are allowed to happen before it?

YOU have arbitrarily taken a dictionary word that means one thing, and made it mean something else.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/16


No Micha, not arbitrary at all. What's arbitrary is you & 'Axe's claims that before "the beginning" there was absolutely nothing or no one except God. That supposes God the Creator hadn't created anything before "the beginning". No higher heaven, no angels, etc. If there was absolutely "nothing" there wouldn't have been a kingdom for God to be God over. Do you suppose God just ruled Himself before "the beginning"? smh In context, the "universal" (whole) Bible (Genesis-Revelation) says quite the opposite.

YOU GUYS have arbitrarily taken Bible text G1-2, waaaay out of context & created a fantasy pretext.
---Leon on 6/29/16


Leon: Why would I think that G1 refers to just the solar system if the Bible doesn't say that? I do think my views are rightly aligned with what the Bible says. So, God & I are the majority regardless of what "you" (and others) think matters! :)
What an arbitrary statement don't you think?
/HUH?!\
I understood StrongAxe. It didn't need re-thought.
---micha9344 on 6/28/16


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Strongaxe, I have looked at the Hebrew for heaven(s), and almost every instance is H8064 shamayim from root meaning to be lofty, sky (the visible arch in which clouds move), as well as the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve. With these meanings, heaven may be interpreted as universe or not. In text in Gen 1, firmament is called heaven by God. From H7549 raqiya, an expanse, visible arch of the sky.
Waters above firmament and below, divided.
Gen 1:1 God created heaven and earth
Vs 2 the earth was without form and void (does not mention heaven as such)
Darkness on face of deep, Spirit moved upon face of waters
Vs 6,7 firmament in midst of waters, divide waters from waters
---Christina on 6/29/16


John: I'm not offended as you intended. Answer my question & I'll answer yours.
---Leon on 6/28/16


Leon, I apologize for offending you. That was not my intention. Perhaps you could say why this subject is so important to you. I am a little baffled by it.
---john1944 on 6/28/16


Leon:

'Axe: I'm not dazzled nor am I baffled. You should however carefully re-think what you said. Thanks.

Perhaps you are confused as to what, exactly, the word "beginning" means. Perhaps you should consult a dictionary. If anything happens BEFORE the beginning, then the beginning isn't really the beginning after all, is it? Nothing can happen before the beginning. God couldn't create anything before the beginning. It's what the word "beginning" MEANS.
---StrongAxe on 6/28/16


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///There is no scriptural evidence suggesting that God created anything before he created the heavens the earth.
---john1944 on 6/28/16///

John: Jesus says His father has a kingdom & dwelling place in heaven. There are angels in heaven. According to scripture God created them & that's evidence enough for me. Are you saying God made His kingdom & angelic hosts after Genesis 1, & before that there was nothing?
---Leon on 6/28/16


///...The word "beginning" means "the very first thing". By definition, there couldn't have been things going on before this. If any things DID exist before this, God didn't create them. For example, God himself existed without being created, but if there were other (say) galaxies, then God wouldn't have created them if they were already there before the beginning.---StrongAxe on 6/28/16///

HUH?!



'Axe: I'm not dazzled nor am I baffled. You should however carefully re-think what you said. Thanks.
---Leon on 6/28/16


///Leon, I believe there is just one God for the whole universe. I was just wondering why you don't think that Genesis 1 refers to the whole universe. I think you are in a minority. But it doesn't really matter.---john1944 on 6/28/16///

John: Why would I think that G1 refers to the whole universe if the Bible doesn't say that? I do think my views are rightly aligned with what the Bible says. So, God & I are the majority regardless of what "you" (and others) think matters! :)
---Leon on 6/28/16


There is no scriptural evidence suggesting that God created anything before he created the heavens the earth.
---john1944 on 6/28/16


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Leon, I believe there is just one God for the whole universe. I was just wondering why you don't think that Genesis 1 refers to the whole universe. I think you are in a minority. But it doesn't really matter.
---john1944 on 6/28/16


Leon:

You wrote: Where in the Bible does it say "before the beginning there was only God"? Why do you believe there was no universe before "the beginning"? Hasn't God always, even before our beginning, been Creator? Do you believe we & our solar system are God's first creations? I don't!

The word "beginning" means "the very first thing". By definition, there couldn't have been things going on before this. If any things DID exist before this, God didn't create them. For example, God himself existed without being created, but if there were other (say) galaxies, then God wouldn't have created them if they were already there before the beginning.
---StrongAxe on 6/28/16


/G1:1 says "heaven" (singular). G2:1 "heavens" implies the G1:1 "heaven" is one of many "heavens" previously created by God.\-Leon on 6/28/16
Leon, the Hebrew for "heavens" in Gen 1:1 and 2:1 are exact.
This probably is why most translations use "heavens" in Gen 1:1.
Heavens: Hei-Shin-Mem-Yod-Mem.
Even the Masoretic jots and tittles are exact.
Anything else on which you care to base your opinion of "just our solar system"?
The verses from previous posts better suggest and imply a totality of creation beginning in Gen 1 than just a solar system.
Has not man since the beginning used the stars, like the North Star, for signs and seasons? Gen 1:14
---micha9344 on 6/28/16


///In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.-Before the beginning there was only God...The universe and earth were made on day 1..., all the heavenly bodies of the universe were made on day 4.---micha9344 on 6/28/16///

Micha: G1:1 says "heaven" (singular). G2:1 "heavens" implies the G1:1 "heaven" is one of many "heavens" previously created by God.

Where in the Bible does it say "before the beginning there was only God"? Why do you believe there was no universe before "the beginning"? Hasn't God always, even before our beginning, been Creator? Do you believe we & our solar system are God's first creations? I don't!
---Leon on 6/28/16


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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
-Before the beginning there was only God.
-God is not bound by anything, including time, He created time, hence "In the beginning."
-He also created space, that which holds matter, hence "God created the heavens."
-He created the first matter, that which uses space, hence "and the earth."
This matter had no light, no energy, so God gave it light.
This matter had no form, liquid, no foundation, was not fixed, so God formed it.
This matter was empty, had no life, so God filled it.
The universe and earth were made on day 1, all the heavenly bodies of the universe were made on day 4.
---micha9344 on 6/28/16


///I believe that the Bible starts with the universe. Then switches to earth in the first 3 sentences.---Samuelbb7 on 6/27/16///

Okay Sam. Obviously, "heaven" does refer to the universe. I just don't believe the Bible, at that point, is referring to the whole cosmos. Instead, it's referring to the microcosm known as our solar system located within the vastness of the universe. in a sense, we agree.

///Leon, are you saying that maybe there is one God for our part of the universe, but there are other gods for other parts?
---john1944 on 6/27/16///

HUH?! Where did that come from John? Did you just watch the movie Prometheus? FAR OUT!!! smh That doesn't match my beliefs. How about yours?!
---Leon on 6/28/16


Leon, are you saying that maybe there is one God for our part of the universe, but there are other gods for other parts?
---john1944 on 6/27/16


I believe that the Bible starts with the universe. Then switches to earth in the first 3 sentences.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/27/16


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///...Genesis 1:1-2 talk[s] about the universe in general, and the rest of the creation account then limits itself to the solar system, and then further limits itself to our particular planet...---Cluny on 6/27/16///

Yes, generally speaking, our solar system is within & is an integral part (MICROCOSM) of God's created & ever expanding universe. Yet, I think it's a stretch to say Gen. 1:1-2 initial focus is on the whole universe. However I agree, speaking of the "heaven" in our solar system is indirectly speaking of the greater scheme of things, i.e., universe at large.

I believe the primary universal focus of Gen. 1 & 2 is on the beginning of our God created segment of it, only our solar system.
---Leon on 6/27/16


My understanding is that Genesis 1:1-2 talk about the universe in general, and the rest of the creation account then limits itself to the solar system, and then further limits itself to our particular planet.

Glory to Jesus Christ?!
---Cluny on 6/27/16


Thanks for the down to earth explanation 'Axe. :)
---Leon on 6/26/16


Leon:

You wrote: 'Axe: I don't know about Chris, but I'm certainly confused by your comments. It went waaay over my head (sky high)! What specifically do you mean as pertains to the blog question? Please explain. Thx!

This has nothing to do with the blog question, but Christina was saying that some versions say "heaven" while others say "heavens", as if it's an important difference, so I was trying to clarify that issue a bit.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/16


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///Christina...Instead of being confused and uncertain about what different translations of the Bible say about a particular verse, why not look at the original text of that verse? The Hebrew word used is "ha-shemayim", which literally means "the heavens", and "heavens" is definitely plural. Of course, it is a word that is only ever used in the plural, and can also mean "sky"...---StrongAxe on 6/26/16///

'Axe: I don't know about Chris, but I'm certainly confused by your comments. It went waaay over my head (sky high)! What specifically do you mean as pertains to the blog question? Please explain. Thx!
---Leon on 6/26/16


Christina:

You wrote: In Gen 1:1 some versions use singular "heaven", while others use plural "heavens".

There is an old saying: "When all else fails, read the instructions".

Instead of being confused and uncertain about what different translations of the Bible say about a particular verse, why not look at the original text of that verse? The Hebrew word used is "ha-shemayim", which literally means "the heavens", and "heavens" is definitely plural. Of course, it is a word that is only ever used in the plural, and can also mean "sky". (Similarly, the word "mayim", which means "waters", is also always plural.)
---StrongAxe on 6/26/16


Okay Micha. I've read your post, but I still don't know what you believe. So, I'll ask again. Based upon what you've posted, does Genesis 1 & 2 refer to the creation of the universe or just our solar system within the Milky Way galaxy?
---Leon on 6/25/16


Let's see what the Bible says rather than man's opinion such as "the Genesis creation account does certainly speak to the sun, moon & stars in our solar system, but doesn't seem to speak to anymore than that."
Gen 1:5 ...the darkness He called Night...
Gen 1:16 ...He made the stars also.
Psalms 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained,
Psalms 136:9 The moon and stars to rule by night...
Job 9:8-9 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens...Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
Genesis 22:17 ...in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven...
-All stars on Day 4
---micha9344 on 6/25/16


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///In Gen 1:1 some versions use singular "heaven", while others use plural "heavens".

Just a few:

heaven: KJV, GNV, WYC

heavens: ASV, AMP, ESV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, RSV, YLT
---Christina on 6/25/16///

True Christina. Some say heaven while others say heavens. Gen. 2:1 likewise says "heavens". So, which is it? I believe all of the above are correct, i.e., Earth's troposphere, stratasphere, mesosphere, thermosphere & exospehere ~ ALL levels of heaven making up Earth's "HEAVENS". They're all heavenly heaven/heavens, made by God, realms that are well above (over) our heads.
---Leon on 6/25/16


Leon, I do believe that, and thank you.
---john1944 on 6/25/16


///In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

That seems to cover everything. There is no reason to believe that anything is excluded.
---john1944 on 6/24/16///

If you want to believe that, fine.
---Leon on 6/24/16


In Gen 1:1 some versions use singular "heaven", while others use plural "heavens".

Just a few:

heaven: KJV, GNV, WYC

heavens: ASV, AMP, ESV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, RSV, YLT
---Christina on 6/25/16


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In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

That seems to cover everything. There is no reason to believe that anything is excluded.
---john1944 on 6/24/16


///Leon:...there is not sufficient biblical evidence to positively state the extent of the Genesis Creation event - Only that it did include the solar system, and maybe "the stars also"...---Jerry6593 on 6/24/16///

True Jerry, however the Genesis creation account does certainly speak to the sun, moon & stars in our solar system, but doesn't seem to speak to anymore than that. Yet, there are 8-9 planet bodies in our solar system. Earth's solar system is but one of many in the Milky Way Galaxy & there are an untold number of galaxies in the universe.

Unlike John, I don't believe G1-2 speaks to the sudden creation of the entire universe. I believe it speaks only to our solar system.
---Leon on 6/24/16


Leon: Scripture seems to indicate that understanding comes by comparing scripture with scripture (cf. Isa 28:10). Thus if we add Exo 20:11 and Heb 1:2, 11:3 we get the picture that the worlds (plural) were spoken into existence by Jesus during the 6-day Creation week.

However, there is not sufficient biblical evidence to positively state the extent of the Genesis Creation event - Only that it did include the solar system, and maybe "the stars also".

Remember,

Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.


---Jerry6593 on 6/24/16


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