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Finish It Here June 2016

Finish it here, Late June, 2016

Okay, folks, there are several threads that have been closed that still need discussion. Here's the place to do it!

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John 9346 said, "Sir, with respect to you, you are wrong the catholic encyclopedia even states that the gloss was the Biblical Commentary and guide during the Medieval Times."

Maybe so. But how about the Dark Ages, when the only Christians doing anything worth while were monks, in monasteries, endlessly copying the Word of God, in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew.

Those monks needed a fair copy of the Scriptures to work from. The Apocrypha was included, and it WAS accepted in all the Church.

"Laodicea has been accepted through out church history my ..friend."

The first thing I read about the 60th Canon of Laodicea was this: [N. B. This Canon is of most questionable genuineness.]
---Monk_Brendan on 7/10/16


Brendan states, "The Glossa, Toulouse, and Laodicea have not been thus accepted."

Sir, with respect to you, you are wrong the catholic encyclopedia even states that the gloss was the Biblical Commentary and guide during the Medieval Times.

Laodicea has been accepted through out church history my ..friend.

If you still genuinely need help locating the gloss please let me know...
---john9346 on 7/10/16


Brendan and Cluny,

Gentlemen,

tell us, what and which Ecumenecal Council believed the apocrypha to be "Scripture."??
---john9346 on 7/10/16


CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE BLOG: ///Leon wrote: "Steve: Yes, there are innumerable stars in our solar system."

Our Solar System consists of ONE sun (a star), eight planets, several moons, thousands of asteroids and a dozen or so comets. No other stars.---Steveng on 7/9/16///

True Steve. I acknowledged that to StrongAxe on 7/2/16. I was wrong. But, within our Milky Way Galaxy there are many stars that are visibly seen in the heaven (from our Earth & solar system)/heavens (out into our galaxy) as indicated in G1:14-15 & G2:1.
---Leon on 7/9/16


John 9346 said, "Sir, as a monk, I engage with you because so far you have shown me that you try to be honest, respectful, and mature when dialogging.

I'd appreciate it if we can keep it that way..."


Forgive me for being harsh. And you're right. We can and should be civil and mature in our dialog.

The whole idea of Orthodoxy and Catholic orthodoxy is to understand what has been taught by the Apostles, preached by the various bishops, and believed by all the believers throughout history.

The 7 Ecumenical Councils have been accepted by almost every Christian up to the Reformation.

The Glossa, Toulouse, and Laodicea have not been thus accepted.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/9/16




Let me point out to john9346 that a local council might promote disciplinary canons, some of which may be adopted by an Ecumenical Council, it has NO authority in doctrinal matters.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/9/16


Ruben:

You wrote: Does not the SCRIPTURE say: 'Burden not thyself above thy power' [SIRACH 13:2] ... [Sir 3:21] ...

Unfortunately, it is fairly pointless to try to prove a point to someone by quoting from a book that the same person does not even accept the legitimacy of.
---StrongAxe on 7/8/1

It is but they should not ask the question.. Which BTW I did answer:)

Note, this is disingenuous and the question still stand to be answered for Future Dialog/discussion, "Has the apocrypha always been "Scripture." prior to the reformation or for others prior to the Council of Trent."John 9346
---Ruben on 7/8/16


Brendan,

Sir, as a monk, I engage with you because so far you have shown me that you try to be honest, respectful, and mature when dialogging.

I'd appreciate it if we can keep it that way.

I'm only saying we cant just cherry pick our way to the truth it never works...
---john9346 on 7/8/16


Brendan states, "Some, John, but not all. The fact is, John, that you are pointing at individuals and local councils,"

Sir, the real question is do the Ecumenecal Councils define the apocrypha as "Scripture."

I would like for you to start there since we now know that the church fathers (east and west) and Local Councils didn't accept the apocrypha as "Scripture." prior to the reformation.

So now we have addressed that and seen the truth Brendan tell us now what and which Ecumenecal Council believed the apocrypha to be "Scripture."??
---john9346 on 7/8/16


John 9346 said, "Sir, some of the Ecumenecal Councils recognized the writings of the local councils and individuals.

I'd put you and Brendan in remembrance of that..."


Some, John, but not all. The fact is, John, that you are pointing at individuals and local councils, and there are a lot of Eastern Christians and Protestants that don't accept them as Gospel--or even Holy Writ.

Stop straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

Start with speaking about the Gospels--not what someone has said about the Gospels, but that actual books themselves. Then we can proceed with the other books of the NT, and then we will worry about the OT, and whether the Apocrypha is canonical or not. Okay?
---Monk_Brendan on 7/8/16




Cluny states, "Ecumenical councils (as opposed to local councils such as Laodicea) overrule individual writers, even recognized Fathers."

Sir, some of the Ecumenecal Councils recognized the writings of the local councils and individuals.

I'd put you and Brendan in remembrance of that...
---john9346 on 7/8/16


Strongaxe said, "
Unfortunately, it is fairly pointless to try to prove a point to someone by quoting from a book that the same person does not even accept the legitimacy of."

Unfortunately, And more than this Ruben's Argument is with his own church/authority that he must answer to his "Authority." "Has Spoken."
---john9346 on 7/8/16


\\John 9346 said, "I will address the Ecuminical Councils,however, if we want to know the truth, we must listen to what all of history (church fathers, councils) say on a subject."\\

Ecumenical councils (as opposed to local councils such as Laodicea) overrule individual writers, even recognized Fathers.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/16


Ruben:

You wrote: Does not the SCRIPTURE say: 'Burden not thyself above thy power' [SIRACH 13:2] ... [Sir 3:21] ...

Unfortunately, it is fairly pointless to try to prove a point to someone by quoting from a book that the same person does not even accept the legitimacy of.
---StrongAxe on 7/8/16


john9346* St. Jerome distinguished between canonical books and ecclesiastical books. The latter he judged were circulated by the Church as good spiritual reading but were not recognized as authoritative Scripture.

Does not the SCRIPTURE say: 'Burden not thyself above thy power' [SIRACH 13:2] Jerome, To Eustochium, Epistle 108 (A.D. 404), in NPNF2, VI:207

THE BOOK OF WISDOM GIVES AN ANSWER TO YOUR FOOLISH QUESTION: [Sir 3:21] You will perhaps deny the authority of this book," "Jerome, "Against the Pelagians, NPNF2, VI:464-5"
---Ruben on 7/8/16


John 9346 said, "I will address the Ecuminical Councils,however, if we want to know the truth, we must listen to what all of history (church fathers, councils) say on a subject."

Okay John, Fine, have it your way. I don't know what I am talking about, and I am just pulling things out of my armpit.

Are we HAPPY now?
---Monk_Brendan on 7/7/16


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Brendan said, "I keep talking Ecumenical Councils, and you keep talking people and LOCAL councils."

I will address the Ecuminical Councils,however, if we want to know the truth, we must listen to what all of history (church fathers, councils) say on a subject.

This is why there are 3 blogs on the topic of the apocrypha because parts of Church History is deliberately being ignored.
---john9346 on 7/7/16


"What are the differences between the LOVE and the WRATH of God?"
They are polar opposites. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
For He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar, because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."
That's love, the truth, those who know this, yet teach that there are many avenues to life, hold this truth in unrighteousness and the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against them.
---Josef on 7/7/16


John 9346, please listen!

I keep talking Ecumenical Councils, and you keep talking people and LOCAL councils.

Jerome and all of the others people and all of the local councils mean nothing as far as the SEVEN Ecumenical Councils.

Trent, BTW, was a local council, in that only ONE eastern bishop was invited, and he refused to come. NONE of the other eastern bishops were invited.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/7/16


St. Jerome distinguished between canonical books and ecclesiastical books. The latter he judged were circulated by the Church as good spiritual reading but were not recognized as authoritative Scripture. The situation remained unclear in the ensuing centuries...For example, John of Damascus, Gregory the Great, Walafrid, Nicolas of Lyra and Tostado continued to doubt the canonicity of the deuterocanonical books."

"The Council of Trent definitively settled the matter of the Old Testament Canon. That this had not been done previously is apparent from the uncertainty that persisted up to the time of Trent

(The New Catholic Encyclopedia, on The Canon).
---john9346 on 7/6/16


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Hi Brendan

Sir, first, keep in mind their are many here who genuinely seek the truth.

Secondly, if you Genuinely Wanted my email address all you had to do is ask for it.

Next, you said you found parts of the gloss and I said if you needed more assistance to let me know.

If one study the Vatican's View on the apocrypha, and examined like Orthodox Wikki, they will find that church fathers themselves (East and West) disprooves it.

When handling an ancient document, you have to read the context of that day not read 2016 back in to the fourth and fifth Centuries.

Brendan and Cluny could never Historically with facts and evidence show us that the apocrypha has always been "Scripture."
---john9346 on 7/6/16


john9346, I NEVER heard of the Glossa Ordinaria until you mentioned it, and I know a lot of out-of-the-way and unusual stuff.

Did you actually READ what Orthodoxwiki said about the LXX?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/6/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote, in King James Onlyism: The one called common sense. You seem to have been absent the day it was handed out.

Stooping to ad-hominem attacks is something small children do when they have nothing rational t say.

One problem with common sense is that some who have it believe one side is right, and others believe the other side is right. It is subjective. I asked you for what OBJECTIVE criteria you use, but you can't show any (because there isn't any, short of God speaking from the heavens on the matter, and he hasn't yet).
---StrongAxe on 7/6/16


Hi Brendan,

Sir, first, keep in mind their are many here who genuinely seek the truth.

Secondly, if you genuinely wanted my email address all you had to do is ask for it.

Do you genuinely want it sir?

Next, you said you found parts of the gloss and I said if you needed more assistance to let me know.

Do you genuinely want to find the Gloss?

The Vatican continue to assert that the apocrypha has always been "Scripture.", but history (church fathers east and West) states otherwise.

Not sure of your point in bringing up the Textus Receptus since it is about the time of the reformation and the question is centered on "Before?"
---john9346 on 7/6/16


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On another blog, now closed, aservant said this: \\Depression is a demon. Research the internet. How is medicine (a flesh solution) going to fix a spiritual problem?\\

aservant, you depress me.

Does this mean I can have you cast out?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/6/16


John 9346 said, "The council of Laodicea, Athanasius...the Catholic Encyclopedia, the Glossa Ordinaria, etc."

First, the council of Laodicea was NOT an Ecumenical Council, and we are free to dispute it if we wish. The people you mention are not all these wonderful people that glow in the dark, and can float through the air. Rather, they are people. Normal, fallible people.

As far as the publications, how old are those books? Is the Catholic Encyclopedia the current one, or is it one published in 1914, or something like that?

And the Glossa, I don't have the money to spend $175 on A book. I have more important things to worry about, like food, clothes, bills, just like you do.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/6/16


Brendan states, "John has gone on and on about the Glossa Ordinaria, but he cannot provide me with a copy to read."

Sir, remember you hold the title of a monk which honesty I am sure is a high principle.

People can read for themselves to see if what you state is truth or not all they have to do is read prior to see that.

I have examined what you and Cluny provided which is only "Orthodox Wikki." which are writings from what others have stated.

If anyone who seeks the truth Will examine in light of history, they will find "Contradiction after contradiction after contradiction."

Remember, the truth is facts and evidence not an opinion.
---john9346 on 7/6/16


The question again is, "Has the apocrypha always been Scripture prior to the Reformation?"
---john9346 on 7/5/16

Yes,Yes!!!

Those who adopt this heresy not only heap insults on representational art, but also reject all forms of reverence and make a mockery of those who live pious and holy lives, thus fulfilling in their own regard that SAYING OF SCRIPTURE, for the sinner piety is an abomination.(Sir. 1:25) Nicea II: Canon 16 (787):

AS DIVINE SCRIPTURE clearly proclaims Do not find fault before you investigate, and understand first and then find fault, (Sir. 11:7) canon 10 of Constantinople IV, 869.
---Ruben on 7/5/16


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The council of Laodicea, Athanasius, John of Damascus, Josephus, Augustine, Jerome,

But that we may believe on the authority of holy Scripture that such is the case, hear how in the book of Maccabees, where the mother of seven martyrs exhorts her son to endure torture, this truth is confirmed, for she says, ' ask of thee, my son, to look at the heaven and the earth, and at all things which are in them, and beholding these, to know that God made all these things when they did not exist.' [2 Maccabees 7:28]" Origen, Fundamental Principles, 2:2 (A.D. 230),in ANF, IV:270

BTW- that it is not on Origens authority, but on the authority of the Scripture of Maccabees, that God made all things out of nothing.
---Ruben on 7/5/16


Every seeker of the truth please note. I have gone out of my way to find John 9346 the EVIDENCE that he has requested. The ONLY thing I can do is point him to good, solid resources. I cannot supply him with physical EVIDENCE because there is no way we can exchange email addresses, much less a way we can mail things one to another.

John has gone on and on about the Glossa Ordinaria, but he cannot provide me with a copy to read. I have given him all sorts of places to look for the true, complete, intact Textus Receptus, but either through inability to search on his computer (which I doubt), or a lack of due diligence to look for something when I have done all I could, he has not found it.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/5/16


The council of Laodicea, Athanasius, John of Damascus, Josephus, Augustine, Jerome,

The Spirit also, who is in him, commands, saying, 'Offer unto God the sacrifice of praise, and pay to the Lord thy vows. Offer the sacrifice of righteousness, and put your trust in the Lord (Sir. 18:17).') [Athanasius the Great: Letter 19, 5 (A.D. 333), in NPNF2, IV:54

Notice, he said 'The Spirit also, who is in him, commands'
---Ruben on 7/5/16


Everyone genuinely seeking the truth make note,

The only thing Brendan and Cluny can give us is the sources/authorities of the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

These institutions as we all know assert they have always "Been."

When we look at the writings of the church fathers (East and West), a Jewish Historian, philosopher, and Translator as well as the Council of Laodicea and the Glossa Ordinaria.

Ladies and gentlemen, we see contradictions from what the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches state.
---john9346 on 7/5/16


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Upon, Historical verrified facts and evidence the apocrypha has not always been "Scripture." prior to the reformation.

The following testifies to this fact:

The council of Laodicea, Athanasius, John of Damascus, Josephus, Augustine, Jerome, Aquila the Translator, the Catholic Encyclopedia, the Glossa Ordinaria, etc.

If Brendan and Cluny are to engage genuinely on this topic in the future then they must answer the question outside of "Sola Ekklesia."

The question again is, "Has the apocrypha always been Scripture prior to the Reformation?"
---john9346 on 7/5/16


\\Note, Cluny can not show us with Historical Facts and Evidence that prior to the reformation that the apocrypha has always been "Scripture."
\\

I have repeatedly pointed out to john9346 where he can find the historical facts.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/4/16


John 9346 said, "...this is disingenuous..."

John, this is rather disingenuous of you too. I cannot walk up your driveway with a copy of the whole TR and show it to you. That would take too long, and I am neither a Hebrew nor Greek scholar. You have to do your due diligence, and actually study what we have given you.

The word limit on these blogs is 125 words. I cannot post URL's or email addresses, otherwise we could work towards a real solution.

Look at the Orthodox Wiki and read ALL of it, carefully.

Go to the Vatican Secret Archives, and you will find the TR there, whole, complete and available to be studied.

You have asked me for due diligence, now it is your turn.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/4/16


Everyone genuinely seeking the truth,

Note, Cluny can not show us with Historical Facts and Evidence that prior to the reformation that the apocrypha has always been "Scripture."

When I ask for prior, he responds with the present.

Note, this is disingenuous and the question still stand to be answered for Future Dialog/discussion, "Has the apocrypha always been "Scripture." prior to the reformation or for others prior to the Council of Trent."

I do find it to be telling that Brendan and Cluny both have had 3 blogs to answer this question, but to know avail.

May Yahweh guide to his truth today,

John
---john9346 on 7/4/16


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John 9346 said, "2. You can googgle english E-books of the glossa there is even a PBF Download of the gloss."

It's PDF, but, I haven't been able to find one that is just the glossa. I did find Erasmus' translation, but that is the only one I have found that is for free. I am looking for an e-book that will contain the entire glossa, instead of multiple downloads.

And the glossa I found to purchase is 150 Euros, and not from Amazon. Now there are sections available from Amazon, but the only complete one I can find is $173.43, and that is used.

Sorry, can't afford it.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/4/16


\\We have seen from a historian, philosopher, the Council of Laodicea, many church fathers (east and west) that the Apocrypha was not always "Scripture."\\

The Council of Laodicea was NOT an Ecumenical Council.

Despite these individual examples you gave, the Orthodox Church TODAY accepts these books as Scripture and reads them liturgically.

All ORTHODOX editions of the Bible contain them. At the present time, the only Orthodox English Bible is the ORTHODOX STUDY BIBLE, with the OT translated from the LXX.

As I said in another place, go to the wiki that is Orthodox and read the article SEPTUAGINT for the ORTHODOX CHURCH'S attitude towards these books.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/3/16


Brendan and Cluny,

Gentlemen,

The both of you can not or will not provide Historical Evidence and facts that the Apocrypha was "Scripture." prior to the reformation.

Both of you were asked on the blogs, "ExplainBible History.", "Strike Books from Canon.", and "Was there a Bible Deletion."

We have seen from a historian, philosopher, the Council of Laodicea, many church fathers (east and west) that the Apocrypha was not always "Scripture."


You see gentlemen, the truth produces facts and evidence.

think about doing that in honesty to be believed...

---john9346 on 7/3/16


Hi Brendan,

In regards to your inquiry on the Glossa Ordinaria, a couple things:

1. You can purchase from Amazon.

2. You can googgle english E-books of the glossa there is even a PBF Download of the gloss.

If I can be of any more help to you, please don't hesitate to reach out to me.


Ps., can you mail me some of your Macaroni and Cheese extra on the cheese please lol
---john9346 on 7/3/16


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Samuel said, "Yes Monk Brendan the RCC has cleaned up it's act and doing a lot better.

Still I disagree with them."


Disagreement is allowed. We live in a democracy, and God has given us all Free Will. And I have no problem with that. I hope that I can call you friend, because you are a good man, and reasonable.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/2/16


Good points Srong Ax

Yes Monk Brendan the RCC has cleaned up it's act and doing a lot better.

Still I disagree with them.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/1/16


Cluny:

You wrote: Let's not forget that a lot of Protestants have misconceptions about what the RCC teaches.

Yes, but they typically get such misconceptions from Catholics who have misconceptions about what their own church teaches.
---StrongAxe on 7/1/16


\\if they were themselves taught those misconceptions by agents of the church itself.\\

Let's not forget that a lot of Protestants have misconceptions about what the RCC teaches.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/1/16


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Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: FINE! If it will make you happy, I will admit to all of the errors of the past.

My point here was not to cast condemnation on the church. Rather, it was to demonstrate that when people misconstrue what the church's official doctrine is (something that Cluny brings up on these blogs frequently), the church cannot blame them for this, if they were themselves taught those misconceptions by agents of the church itself.
---StrongAxe on 6/30/16


StrongAxe said, "This was my point - if the church expected them to do that, but did not properly equip them for it, it is the church's responsibility for errors being taught and propagated and believed, just as much as if a priest had done it, because it was being done under the auspices of, and by the policies of the church itself."

FINE! If it will make you happy, I will admit to all of the errors of the past.

However, the RCC has cleaned up it's act in the past 60 years or so. Give it a rest, You win your little trial of logic. Happy?
---Monk_Brendan on 6/30/16


Strongaxe,

I agree with what you are saying I was adding to why it is not just an Product of Faith.

If you read on many blogs, the replies and inquiries always some how revert back to the mass.

Example, John 6 is constantly raised, "Over and over again."
---john9346 on 6/30/16


Monk_Brendan:

This was my point - if the church expected them to do that, but did not properly equip them for it, it is the church's responsibility for errors being taught and propagated and believed, just as much as if a priest had done it, because it was being done under the auspices of, and by the policies of the church itself.


john9346:

My comment was to Monk_Brendan's "these things can only be understood by faith". IF that is so, THEN it is pointless to discuss them for the reasons I gave.
---StrongAxe on 6/30/16


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StrongAxe said, "OK, hair-splitting semantics. They are official representatives of the church, given the job, by the church, of educating lay people in religious matters..."

But the point I was trying to make is that for centuries, nuns were supposed to know how to do these things, without any training. All that they could do as far as religion was concerned was pass on the bad practices and superstitions that they had been taught.

BTW, while I was going to school, the nuns taught everything, not just religion.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/30/16


Strongaxe asks, "Thus, discussion of such subjects is totally pointless, is it not?"

No sir! to teach that the Lord Jesus Christ has to be sacrifice repeatedly is "Blasphemous."

I do not mean any offense to my catholic and orthodox friends, but Eastern Orthodox and catholic sources when studied, and understood contextually do established very clearly this fact.

The word "Propitiatory." when referring to the Substitutionary death of the Lord Jesus Christ is stating this unequivocally its not a mystery clear as worded.
---john9346 on 6/30/16


Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: Nuns are not clergy. They are religious.

OK, hair-splitting semantics. They are official representatives of the church, given the job, by the church, of educating lay people in religious matters. It's similar to the distinction between a company being represented by its own employees, or by contractors it hires. Errors committed by either employees or contractors both reflect badly on the company, and it can be held liable for both.
---StrongAxe on 6/30/16


StrongAxe, Nuns are not clergy. They are religious. I will admit that they had a thankless task. They were not given instruction on Roman Catholic Dogma and Doctrine when they were sent to teach in school.

Some girl would feel she had a vocation (a call from God) to be a nun. She would live in community for a while, and then after she was professed, she sent to the school to teach. Obedience was the big thing back then. It was figured that through Holy Obedience, the nuns would be able to teach anything

It didn't work. So the Church has to try to wean the people away from things that they were taught as kids, and set them on the right path.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/29/16


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Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: While I admit that I heard such things from the Nuns in 2nd grade, that is not the teaching of the Catholic Church

That is the crux of the problem. What hope do people outside the church have of understanding church doctrine, when church members are taught it incorrectly by the very clergy of the church itself?
---StrongAxe on 6/29/16


StrongAxe said, " Thus, discussion of such subjects is totally pointless, is it not?"

I agree! John 9346 has been trying to make me say that the Mass is the same Sacrifice, over and over again, and that each time we celebrate it, it is the same as crucifying Jesus all over again.

While I admit that I heard such things from the Nuns in 2nd grade, that is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, and I will not give John the pleasure of me falling into that trap.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/29/16


John 9346, The Sacrifice of the Mass involves something that can only understood by faith, through the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it is Propitiatory, but not the way you are trying to get me to say. The Sacrifice was once for all, it is never repeated, but is nonetheless new every time.

Now this is the part that requires some faith. This is a MYSTERY! It cannot be understood by logic or the human mind. If it was as easy as saying yes or no, there would be no problem.

But it is understanding the Mystery of the Eucharist (which from previous posting you don't) through faith that will lead you (and anyone else) to the truth.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/29/16


John 9346 said, "Remember, according to the Council of Trent you would be considered, "Anathema." for this statement."

FINE! I'm anathema. However, the Eastern Catholic Churches (of which I am a member) have always held that Trent was a local council, and therefore not ecumenical and/or binding.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/29/16


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Monk_Brendan:

You wrote: The Sacrifice of the Mass involves something that can only be understood by faith, through the Holy Spirit.

If two people both understand it through faith, there is no need for discussion, and if only one understands it, he can't explain it to the other, since it's not understood through reason, but only through faith. Thus, discussion of such subjects is totally pointless, is it not?
---StrongAxe on 6/29/16


David wrote in "Who Is Bound By The Law":

Why would someone need to confess they broke the law, if they believed, they we're not under the law? That's like stopping to pay a speeding ticket on a road with no speed limit.

If that were true, why would John have needed to write in 1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We needn't refrain from killing because of the Ten Commandments, but because we love our neighbor. We needn't refrain from speeding because of signs, but because it's unsafe. If we kill or speed ANYWAY, there's something wrong with us, that must be repented of and corrected.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/16


Brendan,

You misunderstood my response to you.

You were challenging me when I told you that the RC Apologists and sources/authorities have not condemned Trent the way you did when you stated, "And some of the writings out of Trent have fallen away from the Truth preached by Jesus."

Here is what I stated to you, "Sir, RC Apologists when asked or confronted state the same thing I state to defend RC Positions." referring to Mr. O'Brien and the Council of Trent.

So, I provided you the authorities that have built on Trent's Teachings.

Remember, according to the Council of Trent you would be considered, "Anathema." for this statement.
---john9346 on 6/28/16


John 9346 tried to get me involved in the "Is the Mass Propitiatory" discussion.

I don't care what you say John, here is my answer: Please pay attention!

The Sacrifice of the Mass involves something that can only be understood by faith, through the Holy Spirit.

As I have stated before, the Mass (or any of the Pre-Reformation liturgies) by the Grace of God, takes one up from where a person is, and takes him back in time to the Last Supper--to the Crucifixion--to the Heavenly Banquet before the Throne of God.

Yes, it is Propitiatory, but not the way you are trying to get me to say. The Sacrifice was once for all, it is never repeated, but is nonetheless new every time.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/28/16


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Rita_H:

You wrote: My guess is that Elena clicked on a wrong heading and that is how her recent post ended up as a comment to this blog rather than the one she began recently. We all make mistakes.

The "Finish it here" blogs are specifically designed to be general-purpose overflow buckets for finishing other discussions that have exceeded their ridiculous 75-message limits (something I have never seen on any other blog site) - so virtually anything is "on topic" here.

Also, in all the years I've seen Elena posting on these blogs, I have never seen her post anything that was inappropriate or contentious.
---StrongAxe on 6/28/16


Brendan,

For your information:

"Is the roman mass a Propitiatory Sacrifice?" )(you tube)

"Is the Mass still celebrated as a sacrifice?" by Joel Schorn (US catholic)

"The Eucharist: A True Sacrifice or a Denial of the Sufficiency of the Cross?" by Matt 1618

Eucharist as Sacrifice - Sacrament: Mass and Liturgy by therealpresence
---john9346 on 6/28/16


Sister Elena Your nephew is a Con Artist,don't let him pull you in. the Bible says if we see a brother hungry feed him,etc but that is speaking of our Christian Brothers and Sisters not all our Kinfolks. Besides that home belongs to you and your husband now you have to please him before anyone else besides God. Blessings Darlene 1
---Darlene_1 on 6/28/16


\\ My guess is that Elena clicked on a wrong heading and that is how her recent post ended up as a comment to this blog rather than the one she began recently. \\

That frequently happens.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/28/16


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Elena said, " My apologies to you Monk_Brendan I meant Well,I am sorry you are mad at me...I have not mean to hurt no one,I will be carefull not to bother no one it's been a Long time.I will not bother you all.
You have a blessed day.bye."


Did I say I was angry? I am not. I have prayed for your nephew, and for you, so that both of you can find His will in the situation. I was merely asking you to post things on the blog you already started.

God bless you and your nephew!
---Monk_Brendan on 6/27/16


Elena,

I have never found you to be a bother in the many years you have posted here, and believe you have been a blessing to cnet. Though it appears you have been away some in more recent months, you have been missed. I hope you will continue to share.
---Chria9396 on 6/27/16


My guess is that Elena clicked on a wrong heading and that is how her recent post ended up as a comment to this blog rather than the one she began recently. We all make mistakes.

Please don't leave because of this Elena. Your posts are truly refreshing here and always Godly/scriptural (as everyone's posts here should be).
---Rita_H on 6/27/16


Elena, that's not what Monk Brendan meant.

You had first brought up the question o f your nephew on a blog you yourself started, which got the title NEPHEW HAS NO SHOES.

At this point, your blog has only 16 postings, so it is not closed, and there was no reason to transfer it to "Finish it here, Late June 2016."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/27/16


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My apologies to you Monk_Brendan I meant Well,I am sorry you are mad at me...I have not mean to hurt no one,I will be carefull not to bother no one it's been a Long time.I will not bother you all.
You have a blessed day.bye.
---Elena_95555 on 6/27/16


Elena said, "In short,my nephew is 35 he wants to come here God know what on his mind?!! he always beg but he doing fine,he doesn't pay rent or nothing,he complain alot.. amaze he wants to come because he knows I am strict.He just say he want to find a good woman get married.
He used to having it easy too.
He complain alot.Shoes are easy to buy he got money.Unless God show me...he need to stay."


You started another blog on this subject, please DON'T hijack this one.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/26/16


In short,my nephew is 35 he wants to come here God know what on his mind?!! he always beg but he doing fine,he doesn't pay rent or nothing,he complain alot.. amaze he wants to come because he knows I am strict.He just say he want to find a good woman get married.
He used to having it easy too.
He complain alot.Shoes are easy to buy he got money.Unless God show me...he need to stay.
---Elena_95555 on 6/26/16


Oh before I forget Bro.Cluny my nephew has shoes believe me he wants to have people feel sorry for him,he has money and yes shoes bless the Lord.He just like that all,where he got ir can't say begging all the time. He pays no rent,no lights nothing.thankyou Bro.Cluny
---Elena_95555 on 6/26/16


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John 9346 said, "Sir, RC Apologists when asked or confronted state the same thing I state to defend RC Positions.

In fact, you had an issue with fr John O'Brien statements on the mass,however, no RC Apologists has ever condemned Mr. O'Brien's Statements."


Which apologists? Name them and the date you talked with them. Or are they apologists in books that you have read? If so, then what date was it published, who wrote it, who holds the copyright, and what pages are your statements on.
---Monk_Brendan on 6/26/16


Brendan said, "John, you seem to glory in looking up passages in old Roman Catholic texts, and presenting them as the very last word in Catholic Theology."

Sir, RC Apologists when asked or confronted state the same thing I state to defend RC Positions.

In fact, you had an issue with fr John O'Brien statements on the mass,however, no RC Apologists has ever condemned Mr. O'Brien's Statements.

Mr. O'Brien's Work is respected and valued in the RCC and has no Doctrinal Impurity. .
---john9346 on 6/24/16


Brendan said, "If you really want to do that, then constrain yourself to the 7 Ecumenical Councils, and the writings of the Ante-Nicene, Nicene, and post Nicene Fathers."

Sir, as a monk in dialogging with me, you know better then to write this statement.

You and I have had multiple discussions in this area covering the 7 Ecumenical Councils, and the writings of the Ante-Nicene, Nicene, and post Nicene Fathers.

I would also add the apostolic fathers.
---john9346 on 6/24/16


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