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Worship Leader Is Punished

My dear friend sinned and is now stepping down from his roll as worship leader. WHY must he step down, now were all being punished from his absence. The apostles sinned and continued to spread Gods word!!

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 ---Paul on 6/29/16
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\\Can't believe someone actually believed you and I were the same person.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/11/16\\

That's because many of the people here don't have the mind to tell the difference between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/12/16


THANKS, Cluny.

Can't believe someone actually believed you and I were the same person.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/11/16


You are correct Nicole.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/11/16


\\'My friend sinned and repented, but was forced to step down from his worship leader roll.\\

Nicole and Paul, the word you're looking for is spelled ROLE.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/11/16


Paul shouldn't judge the Church Leaders for their decision.

In fact, no one even knows if the Church even TOLD his dear friend to step down from his roll as worship leader.

No one knows why he stepped down and that's okay.

Paul is the one upset and claims the Church is punishing everyone for his dear friend's sin.

Do you all see how crazy this has gone?

Paul's friend is the one who sinned, but somehow it is the Church fault for the man stepping down.

Did the Church tell his friend to sin? No

The man made his own decision.

Paul, if you are so upset, just go and tell your friend to repent.

Can't we all take responsibility for our sinful actions and move on?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/10/16




As I said to Paul on 30th June he should not tell us what the sin was. We do NOT need to know. It is just salacious gossip which helps no-one and just brings about more gossip which we should not be encouraging here. Any newcomers looking at what we post here will see Christianet as a gossip shop if this continues. Asking if he repented in one thing but asking what the sin was is for God to know not us (a bunch of people who like using the internet).

Maybe the pastor said he should step down but maybe the worship leader felt God was telling him to do so.

When God is in control things work out eventually but take longer when others interfere.
---Rita_H on 7/10/16


Cluny who's speculating?

Paul is upset because his dear friend sinned and stepped down from his roll.

Read his post again. He is asking US why must he step down?

How can we answer his question if he doesn't tell us the sin or if he repented?

Should the Church allow his friend to continue in his roll with his Mistress at his side???? (An example only)

We shouldn't judge the Church either.

Paul NEVER said he repented.

Now if he said 'My friend sinned and repented, but was forced to step down from his worship leader roll.
Then, we don't need to KNOW the sin. HE REPENTED.

The focus would have turned to 'FORGIVENESS and MERCY' on those who forced him to stepped down.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/9/16


Let's quit speculating on the sin of this worship leader.

It's not profitable and is verging on judgement--if some have not already passed into it.

Let's just pray for the particular person involved, OK?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/16


There's a monastic saying.

You claim to have seen your brother's sins--but have you also seen his secret repentance?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/16


Paul, did he repent?

You wrote he sinned and next stepped down. Maybe the reason he stepped down is because he refused to repent and turn away from his sin.
Left his wife for another woman???

Refused to reconcile with his wife, but wanted the other woman instead of repenting?

If that is the case, then he should have stepped down and you need to find a godly leader instead of complaining.

BTW, not all of the Apostles that sinned continued to spread Gods Word.

Judas did not continue, but took his own life not trusting that Jesus could have forgiven his sin.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/8/16




Well, Paul . . . 1 Peter 4:17 says,

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

So, whoever is God's child gets judged "first", I can see.

So, I understand, if I am a child of God, I need to first be an example of pointing out how I myself can be wrong, so others do not go along with me whenever I am wrong. And our leaders are "examples" of this > 1 Peter 5:3 < first judging their own selves.

So, possibly that worship leader was doing something like this. Character correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 < could need time away from public ministering.
---Bill on 7/8/16


More Drivel. I was not arguing with Scripture. I was heaping scorn upon your false conclusion, which is still drivel. ---Monk_Brendan on 7/7/16

Well Monk, I saw your post where you repented from your behavior. Thought you might want to consider that it is rearing up again.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood

Rom 8:10 . . . Spirit is life . . .

A = B = C, thus A = C. Life is in the blood, Spirit is Life, thus Spirit is in one's blood

Scripture concludes the Spirit resides in one's blood.

Ok to be upset at me and scorn me. It won't change Scripture.
---aservant on 7/7/16


A Servant said, "However, as for your conclusion, it is pure, unadulterated hooey, poppycock, and drivel.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/6/16

This is another statement that proves you do not have the Holy Spirit, and seem to be blind.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, and are all one. If the Holy Spirit were in you, you would never disagree with the Word, i.e., Jesus."


More Drivel. I was not arguing with Scripture. I was heaping scorn upon your false conclusion, which is still drivel.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/7/16



. . . does this mean that Jesus lost all of HIS spiritual attributes when He bled in His Passion: the bloody sweat in the Garden, the Scourging, and Crucifixion?

Please explain.
---Cluny on 7/7/16


You are sooooo intellectually and Biblically superior to the rest of us idiots, I would not dare to instruct you in anything.

Rather, I would expect that, your eminence, would prefer that we pay attention while you explain this to us, how God is mistaken - the Spirit (and its attributes) cannot possibly reside in man's blood as God said. And I know that in your great wisdom you will prove your instruction by citing your refs in your superior ref books.
---aservant on 7/7/16


aservant, if our spiritual attributes lie in our blood, does this mean that Jesus lost all of HIS spiritual attributes when He bled in His Passion: the bloody sweat in the Garden, the Scourging, and Crucifixion?

Please explain.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/7/16


However, as for your conclusion, it is pure, unadulterated hooey, poppycock, and drivel.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/6/16


This is another statement that proves you do not have the Holy Spirit, and seem to be blind.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, and are all one. If the Holy Spirit were in you, you would never disagree with the Word, i.e., Jesus.

My answer contained 78 words. 66 of those words were Scripture.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood

Rom 8:10 . . . Spirit is life . . .

I don't see how can you possibly disagree with Scripture that shows the Spirit resides in one's blood.
---aservant on 7/7/16


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GOD does not nor cannot bless sin.

To be a Worship leader requires that the leader have a true heart for GOD.

He (or she) is responsible for "leading others in worshipping GOD".

To live in sin, one cannot really be worshipping GOD.

And, being a Worship leader, as in any Church leadership Role, is a privilege to be taken seriously.

No matter how you slice it, willful sin is not taking GOD seriously.
---Gordon on 7/7/16


A Servant said, "Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood

Dt 12:23 . . . for the blood is the life

Jn 6:54 Whoso . . . drinketh my blood, hath eternal life

Rom 8:2 . . . Spirit of life . . .
Rom 8:10 . . . Spirit is life . . .
2Co 3:6 . . . the spirit giveth life.

All Spiritual attributes reside in our blood, which is in our flesh."


First of all, aservant, I am glad to see that your Bible has John 6 in it. I was beginning to think that it was something that Protestants had cut out of the Bible as well!

However, as for your conclusion, it is pure, unadulterated hooey, poppycock, and drivel.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/6/16


Oh? you've never, EVER told a fib to anyone, not even to yourself or God? What

are YOUR sins?
---Monk_Brendan on 6/29/16


Everyone sins. Sinners should repent.

When TV personalities lie and deceive, they too serve the interests of Satan. And they should repent. Swaggart repented publicly.

Yet, the sins of others don't give Cluny's sin a pass, or that Cluny's sin should be viewed as less weighty.

If he is too tender to be criticized, and needs you as his defender, then he should stop criticizing and challenging others.

You should support and defend the Truth, Jesus. He died for you. Not support and defend Cluny's sin.
---aservant on 7/6/16


\\All Spiritual attributes reside in our blood, which is in our flesh.\\

Does this mean if I have a hemmorhage, my spiritual attributes wash out onto the floor or into the bandages?

I'm sure you can imagine what your statement implies about feminine functions. Modesty and propriety prevent my saying more.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/6/16


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\\"Unrepentant liars are servants of Satan, even if unintentionally, which is why I asked my Father to show Him the error of his ways, since "followers" of Jesus cannot practice lies."\\

Better you should pray to the true God than to your Father, aservant.

John 8:44.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/5/16


First the Holy Spirit does not dwell in our flesh. He dwells . . . with our spirit, our mind, will, and emotions---Monk_Brendan on 7/5/16

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood

Dt 12:23 . . . for the blood is the life

Jn 6:54 Whoso . . . drinketh my blood, hath eternal life

Rom 8:2 . . . Spirit of life . . .
Rom 8:10 . . . Spirit is life . . .
2Co 3:6 . . . the spirit giveth life.

All Spiritual attributes reside in our blood, which is in our flesh.
---aservant on 7/5/16


A servant said, "Unrepentant liars are servants of Satan, even if unintentionally, which is why I asked my Father to show Him the error of his ways, since "followers" of Jesus cannot practice lies."

Oh? you've never, EVER told a fib to anyone, not even to yourself or God? What are YOUR sins?

And if followers of Jesus cannot practice lies, why did Jerry Fallwell, Jim and Tammy Bakker, or Jimmy Swaggart tell them big time? How about Joel Osteen? He was a big time televangelist, and yet he got caught lying!

Physician, heal thyself!
---Monk_Brendan on 7/5/16


Cluny is neither a liar, nor a servant of satan . . . does not deserve such slander. . . . read up on Matt 5:44
---Monk_Brendan on 7/5/16


Re Mat 5:44, telling someone the truth is loving them. He challenged me with questions, so I challenged him in my responses. I presented the evidence of his lies. A "godly" man would confess that He lied: He did not. I said nothing untrue - no slander. He should not need you to come to his defense.

Unrepentant liars are servants of Satan, even if unintentionally, which is why I asked my Father to show Him the error of his ways, since "followers" of Jesus cannot practice lies.
---aservant on 7/5/16


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\\Seems you really hate God.
\\

Please don't confuse yourself with God.

Besides, I don't hate you, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/5/16


Aservant said, "The same way I can tell you are a servant of Satan." AND"Jesus and His servants are not casting out chemical imbalances. Mk 5" AND"Jn 14:17 Spirit of truth . . . he dwelleth with you . . .
Rom 8:9
Rom 8:11
1Cor 3:16"


First the Holy Spirit does not dwell in our flesh. He dwells in us but He dwells with our spirit, our mind, will, and emotions

Cluny is neither a liar, nor a servant of satan. He is a godly man that does not deserve such slander. And if that is the best you can do, then you need to read up on Matt 5:44
---Monk_Brendan on 7/5/16


Cluny, now you say this:

Yes, the Holy Spirit dwells in us--(but we are MORE than our flesh - here you change the topic trying to evade you were caught being ignorant of God's Word.)
---Cluny on 7/4/16

Before you said this:

The Holy Spirit does NOT live in our flesh . . . you cannot provide ONE Bible verse . . . ---Cluny on 7/3/16


Your posts show that you promote (i.e., serve) men much more than you promote (i.e., serve) God.

Seems you really hate God.

Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: . . . he will hate the one, and love the other
---aservant on 7/5/16


Hi, Paul (c: I am Bill, pleased to meet you (c: God bless you (c:

He is responsible to pray and make sure about what God wants him to do. Also, your leaders are responsible to make sure with God about what they do.

If you don't agree with what they have done, possibly you need to be with people who are doing God's will . . . or you need to learn something about how they are doing things.

If he sinned, this could mean he has been pushing things in ego, so he could break down in weakness to sin like that. Possibly, he needs to step aside and pray until he is with God and in God's leading, then see what God has him doing > Colossians 3:15.
---Bill on 7/5/16


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\\. . . how YOU of all people can tell which church leaders were placed . . . by God? ---Cluny on 7/3/16

The same way I can tell you are a servant of Satan.
\\

Keep on blessing me with your calumnies, aservant. You simply increase my heavenly treasure.

Yes, the Holy Spirit dwells in us--but we are MORE than our flesh.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/4/16


. . . how YOU of all people can tell which church leaders were placed . . . by God? ---Cluny on 7/3/16

The same way I can tell you are a servant of Satan.

You lie.
Wrong, aservant. Frequently depression is a CHEMICAL imbalance and NOT caused by demons.

Jesus and His servants are not casting out chemical imbalances. Mk 5

You deceive . . .
The Holy Spirit does NOT live in our flesh . . . you cannot provide ONE Bible verse . . .

Jn 14:17 Spirit of truth . . . he dwelleth with you . . .
Rom 8:9
Rom 8:11
1Cor 3:16
---aservant on 7/4/16


David was neither a Levitical priest nor worship leader, either.
---Cluny on 7/3/16


David was over all other leaders. He could command their deaths. God punished this highest leader of the nation, but did not set him down or remove His anointing.

How God deals with others is our example. Jn 13:15, 1Pet 2:21, 1Jn 2:6

Men who are not put into leadership by God, are not anointed by God and do not have the Spirit of God, which causes them to follow God. Result: they do what other men require.
---aservant on 7/4/16


3John 1:9,10

I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

When leaders do wrong they are to be punished.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/3/16


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\\Stepping down is not the Biblical example. Though guilty of capital crimes, David was not "sat down", or demoted my God.\\

David was neither a Levitical priest nor worship leader, either.

\\Very often, men placed in leadership by men, not by God, obey by-laws that are not of God, to God's great displeasure.
\\

Can you give specific examples, and how YOU of all people can tell which church leaders were placed in their positions by God?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/3/16


Stepping down is not the Biblical example. Though guilty of capital crimes, David was not "sat down", or demoted my God.

Yet, God did severely punish David and his house, 2Sam:9-12.

Very often, men placed in leadership by men, not by God, obey by-laws that are not of God, to God's great displeasure.

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
---aservant on 7/2/16


Paul: Until Jesus returns men will sin - even leaders. But some facts still apply.

1) A sin must be confessed (to the one(s) sinned against).

2) It must be repented of.

3) Restitution must be made where applicable.

4) The punishment must be accepted. If you did the crime you must do the time.

5) God may reinstate him in due time. Wait patiently.



---Jerry6593 on 7/2/16


We need to understand the Trinity and it's meaning.

Three beings coeternal, coequal are beyond our understanding. But it is what the trinity is and the Bible teaches it.

Begotten here is not about a start but their relationship.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/1/16


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\\Cluny
What do you think "begotten" means? Try doing a little research before you comment.
\\

David, you don't actually think "begotten" means the same thing as "born", do you?

If so, you'd better have a talk with your father about this, OK?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/1/16


Cluny
What do you think "begotten" means? Try doing a little research before you comment.
---David on 6/30/16


\\ Jesus Christ was also born of God.\\

More precisely, Jesus Christ was BEGOTTEN of the Father without a mother in ETERNITY, and CONCEIVED by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary in TIME.

And He STILL is God.

The Apostles were not.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/30/16


You know I had a situation at one church me and my friends were just talking and of course
I.was a leader in church some years bk & my friends were talking girl talk the Pastor heard what I said a lill Joke he got MAD!try to make me feel bad I don't feel bad.I will tell you exactly what it.was I said...continue..,
---Elena_95555 on 6/29/16


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Paul
Go to your friend, and ask him, if he believes the other teachers in your church, sin. If he says yes, ask him why the other teachers don't step down from their positions, too.

BTW, the disciples were Sons of God. And according to the bible, they did not sin (1 John 3:9-10). It's a popular belief and argument, those born of God, do sin, but remember when you are taught this foolishness, Jesus Christ was also born of God.
---David on 6/30/16


You say he stepped down, not that he was asked to do so. We don't need to know his sin so DO NOT tell us. Time heals, after confession and a time of reflection and much prayer. Don't rush things or push him into returning.

He's done the right thing in stepping down and might, one day, be able to return but things must settle, the gossip (if there is any) must cease and ALL must pray about this.

If he is meant to return that will happen in due course
---Rita_H on 6/30/16


There is a difference between forgiveness of sin and restoration to leadership.

I know of a sad case where two priests and two deacons tried to lead a rebellion against a bishop.

While the bishop could have inhibited them from exercising their ministries and orders, or even deposed them, he merely told them to find other bishops willing to accept them.

ONE of the priests apologized to the bishop, and he allowed him to remain.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/30/16


Paul: Sin brings about broad consequences for the sinner & adversely affects all who are in his/her life space. The Bible shows that from Genesis to Revelation.

Pray for your friends repentance, deliverance & hopeful restoration...
---Leon on 6/29/16


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well the New Testament doesn't tell us much about the sins the Apostles committed after the Cross. But the Bible does list what a leader is supposed to be and if they fail in that they should not be a leader.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/29/16


What was his sin?
---john1944 on 6/29/16


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