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What Are Vain Repetitions

Why are Catholic prayers vain repetitions, but Protestant prayers with "God we just wanna say..." which are sprinkled through many a prayer for sinners are not?. Why is singing "Just as I Am" 25 times while "sinners' are being led to the altar not just as vain?

Moderator - A Song isn't a prayer.

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 7/10/16
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Yes Rob, I understand. I was getting a little lost, and carried away.
---Josef on 8/9/16


I say that all who are born Again are called saints. But I am not the judge or the final authority.

JESUS will separate the wheat and the tares. The wheat are the true saints. The Tares are those like the man you mentioned. Who claims to be a Saint. Like the hypocrites who attacked Jesus. They claimed to be holy. But were not.

Back to my original point. All those who follow Jesus are called to be saints.


1Corithians 1:2

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
---Samuelbb7 on 8/9/16


I don't remember there being a Nurse with the cognitive skill level Nicole Lacey displays!---Rob on 8/8/16

Well I guess there is always a first.

Nothing is impossible with God.

Praise Him instead of being surprised.



"Make up your mind.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/8/16" :oD))))))))) That's funny---Josef on 8/8/16

You forgot your other post didn't you.

That's okay, when people can't argue with facts, they usually have to laugh or ignore the fact given to them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/9/16


Josef, you need to remember Nicole Lacey claims to be Nurse, and she is at a much dfferent level than we are.

I was in the Army Medical Corps for many years. I don't remember there being a Nurse with the cognitive skill level Nicole Lacey displays!
---Rob on 8/8/16


"Make up your mind.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/8/16"
:oD))))))))) That's funny
---Josef on 8/8/16




"Even Josef had to change 'Holy One' to 'Saint' to answer my question...---Nicole_Lacey on 8/8/16" Where and when?? ---Josef on 8/8/16

In another blog. 'What makes a Saint' I believe was the title.


//"HOLY ONE" defines saint. So whether the translation uses holy one, consecrated, set apart, or saint of the LORD, it is saying the same thing. The Hebrew word used is "qadowsh". Look it up.---Josef on 8/6/16

Then you write:

//Again Nicole, If you consider the King James Version a Bible, It does.---Josef on 8/8/16

Make up your mind.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/8/16


"The Bible never called a certain person a Saint." Again Nicole, If you consider the King James Version a Bible, It does.
"Even Josef had to change 'Holy One' to 'Saint' to answer my question...---Nicole_Lacey on 8/8/16" Where and when??
---Josef on 8/8/16


Samuelbb7, and when the same Saved person who you all called a Saint for 30 years is discovered have been cheating on his wife for the last 10 years is NO LONGER SAVED or a Saint.
How convenient?

The RCC is clear and doesn't change it's doctrine to fit strange occurrences.

Saved at Baptism, with free will to reject their Salvation.

Once you complete your life on earth, not rejecting Jesus.
Now in Heaven, AT that point and only at that point you are a Saint.

There are Saints on earth, but only God knows who will not reject Him.

The Bible never called a certain person a Saint.
Even Josef had to change 'Holy One' to 'Saint' to answer my question even though the Bible uses the word Saints.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/8/16


Nicole I think you misread Strong Ax's question.

The problem I have is that the RCC definition of saint and the Bible's definition are not the same.

When we come to Jesus and are born again. By the grace of GOD we are set apart as Holy and justified by the Grace of GOD alone.

That makes us a saint.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/7/16


StrongAxe, Hindus, Muslims and etc. are in Heaven, but through the Blood of Jesus.

They are not Hindus in Heaven.

The only reason to know if someone is a Saint now is to gave the faithful a person's way of life for encouragement purposes.

We wouldn't say: Worship like those Hindus and you will find Jesus.

But, look at Mother Teresa lived and cared for the poor for Jesus sake. She trusted in Jesus and gave her life to Jesus: You can do the same.

Did you know that the words 'The devil's advocate' came from the process of determining sainthood?

The RCC tries FIRST to DEBUNK the miracle coming from God until NO explanation is possible except for the Hand of God at work and not the devil.

Understand?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/6/16




Cluny:

You wrote: I've already answered this question earlier: Purity of Christian faith and Christian doctrine. (Not Krishnan)

I didn't ask how YOU would distinguish them. I asked how SHE would distinguish them.


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: If the Hindu is in Heaven he as well is a Saint. Everyone in Heaven are Saints.

Yes, but how can YOU tell, just from the miracles, whether he's in heaven or not? As I said, there are Hindu holy men who are DEFINITELY not Christians, who have miracles attributed to them after their deaths. Are they in heaven?
---StrongAxe on 8/3/16


\\ How would you distinguish a Catholic to whom miracles are attributed after his death from a Hindu guru to whom miracles are attributed after his death? \\

I've already answered this question earlier: Purity of Christian faith and Christian doctrine. (Not Krishnan)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/3/16


How would you distinguish a Catholic to whom miracles are attributed after his death from a Hindu guru to whom miracles are attributed after his death? If miracles are a criterion, both should be considered saints,..What objective criterion would you use to distinguish them?---StrongAxe

If the Hindu is in Heaven he as well is a Saint.
Everyone in Heaven are Saints.

Any miracles obtained by a Catholic, Hindu, Muslim or Protestant while alive are not denied or approve the miracles.

No need to know.

But, to know if a person is in Heaven or not, God gives us miracles letting us know because we are asking.

The RCC isn't investigating day to day miracles. Why should She?

After death we wish to know?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/2/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: David tricked you as well.

Just what specifically did he say that tricked me?

All miracles used to declare a person a saint OCCURS After the person is DEAD.

How would you distinguish a Catholic to whom miracles are attributed after his death from a Hindu guru to whom miracles are attributed after his death? If miracles are a criterion, both should be considered saints, but I don't think you would agree. What objective criterion would you use to distinguish them?

God PROVIDES the miracles letting us on earth know the person is in Heaven, thus a SAINT.

Yes, and Satan can also do miracles that could deceive the every elect, if that were possible (Matthew 24:24).
---StrongAxe on 8/2/16


Strongaxe, David tricked you as well.

Words and their arrangements in a sentence are important.

This is how people TWISTS the Bible and it's meaning.

David wrote this:
//The Catholic Church makes saints out of those who perform miracles.//

UNTRUE!

All miracles used to declare a person a saint OCCURS After the person is DEAD.

So the miracles comes from God.
The person is DEAD!

God PROVIDES the miracles letting us on earth know the person is in Heaven, thus a SAINT.

The Anti-Christ performs miracles while he is ALIVE on EARTH through the help of the devil.

No contradiction. Unless you are trick by David's words.

Miracles done after death or miracles done while alive.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/2/16


Most people will bow down and worship the Beast, of course.
---StrongAxe on 8/1/16


Exacltly my point, and the reason for the warning. Many folks think they will be saved just because they believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Peter saw all the miracles of Jesus Christ. Christ walking on water, making the blind see, and even bringing a man 3 days stinking dead back to life, and yet Peter denied Christ.

How did they come to have a faith greater than Peters, a faith that will keep them from denying Christ during the tribulation?
---David on 8/2/16


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\\Most people will bow down and worship the Beast, of course.
---StrongAxe on 8/1/16\\

Especially those waiting for a pre-trib pre-millennial rapture.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/1/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: All miracles are from God. and
The anti-christ will preform miracles through the power of the devil while he is ALIVE!

These two statements are mutually contradictory.

There are tales from all over the world of holy men of many different religions (e.g. Hindus) producing miracles while alive, and/or after they are dead. That doesn't necesarrily mean those miracles are from God, nor does it necessarily make them saints.

David wrote: what do you think they will do when the Anti-Christ is performing many miracles?

Most people will bow down and worship the Beast, of course.
---StrongAxe on 8/1/16


All miracles are from God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/31/16


Nicole
I merely point out the fact, Peter denied Jesus three times. Why should I feel shame, do you believe I wrote it into the Bible?

Peters faith, during the time when he denied Jesus, was a faith built on seeing Christ's miracles. Later, Peter died for his faith in Christ. What brought about his eventual faith, a faith he was willing to die for?

Honestly, If a miracle is required by the Catholic Church to make someone a Saint, what do you think they will do when the Anti-Christ is performing many miracles?
---David on 8/1/16


\\ The Catholic Church makes saints out of those who perform miracles. \\

There's more to it than that. There are also holiness of life and purity of doctrine and faith.

Or did you know that?

Moderator, if a song is not a prayer, why do so many hymns end in "Amen"? And why did St. Augustine say, "He who sings prays twice"?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/16


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SHAME ON YOU, DAVID!

//Because Peter denied Jesus after seeing him perform many miracles.
The Catholic Church makes saints out of those who perform miracles...---David on 7/31/16

You left out Peter telling Jesus he loved Him 3 TIMES and accepting CONTROL of Jesus' sheep and Lambs.

Jealous are we?

As usual you twist reality to fit your twisted religion.

All miracles are from God.

The miracles used by the Vatican are to determine if someone is in Heaven or not (thus a Saint) occurs AFTER the DEATH of that person!

The anti-christ will preform miracles through the power of the devil while he is ALIVE!

SHAME ON YOU!

STOP distorting the truth.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/31/16


David, I am asking YOU to give me a straight, honest answer, and the reasons you don't believe me.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/22/16


Brendan
Didn't Peter say he believed Jesus was the Son of God, before he denied him 3 times? What will happen to you, if you do as Peter, during the Great Tribulation? I do think you believe, but I doubt it will be enough to save you.
Why?

Because Peter denied Jesus after seeing him perform many miracles.

The Catholic Church makes saints out of those who perform miracles. During the Great Tribulation, the Anti-Christ will Perform many miracles (Mark 13:22).
What will keep them from making him a Saint, and What will keep the Catholic believer from following him?
---David on 7/31/16


The Church must put the Bible as the final authority in all matters above all it teaches.

But where the Bible is silent we must not make standards that aren't there.---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/16

I like your 2nd statement

Jesus gave the Church 1st Authority not the Bible.

Jesus didn't EVEN COMMAND the Church to put into writing HIS WORDS OR DEEDS.

The Church decided to put Jesus' Words into writing. But not to replace Her.
That's Crazy!

Jesus didn't command the Church to compile a Book and then let the people use it for the final authority.

YOU ALL MADE THAT UP!

No where in the Bible states it is the final authority.

NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/30/16


David said, "This is where it becomes important to rightly divide the Bible.
In Matthew 6:14-15 Jesus teaches his disciples how to pray according to the law (Matt 5:17). In this popular prayer pattern Jesus says forgiveness comes by forgiving other people: forgiveness was conditional, thusly vain"


Excuse me? Are you telling me that if I forgive someone for having wronged me it is VAIN? NOT! The verse says And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. not forgive us our debt because our forgiveness is vain
---Monk_Brendan on 7/22/16


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A church practice not from the Bible does not prove the church teaches wrong.

The Church must put the Bible as the final authority in all matters above all it teaches.

But where the Bible is silent we must not make standards that aren't there.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/16


\\But you, like so many others, follow your church doctrine, not the doctrine which Christ lays out in his Gospels.\\

Just like you, David.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/16


David said, "I believe, you believe you do. I admire your dedication to your faith, But you, like so many others, follow your church doctrine, not the doctrine which Christ lays out in his Gospels...If these practices came from man, doesn't it seem plausible the teaching do too? I believe you are a man of great faith, only it's not in the Gospel of Christ."

David, why do you not believe me when I tell you that I have given my life to Jesus, that I am filled with the Holy Spirit, that I have humbled myself to receive the tonsure of a monk, and I fill my life working for Him?

David, I am asking YOU to give me a straight, honest answer, and the reasons you don't believe me.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/22/16


I am saddened to realize that many worshipers honor the Creator with book knowledge and and by reciting/chanting instead of communing with and residing spiritually IN the offspring SON of the FATHER daily.

The truth of scripture (it's the WORD OF TRUTH) can only be found by a true movement of the heart-mind (SOUL). This TRUE understanding will cause the individual to RESIDE and live SPIRITUALLY inside the body that hung on the cross (JESUS is the "WORD OF GOD", REV.19:3).

Our modern devotion (no longer Judaic) is of GOD'S SPIRIT that Jesus brought to earth (the Jews were provided NO SPIRIT for their devotion).

Your words are meaningless, useless, and are not of YOUR mind, they are copies of other peoples thoughts.
---faithforfaith on 7/22/16


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David, I trust in God for every breath I take. But I don't see you trying to believe me.---Monk_Brendan on 7/21/16

Brendan,
I believe, you believe you do. I admire your dedication to your faith, But you, like so many others, follow your church doctrine, not the doctrine which Christ lays out in his Gospels.

You are familiar with both the Catholic and Protestant faiths, look at all the ceremony. You have pointed some of the Protestant practices out, as they have yours. These practices came from man, not God.

If these practices came from man, doesn't it seem plausible the teaching do too? I believe you are a man of great faith, only it's not in the Gospel of Christ.
---David on 7/22/16


Read Matt 6:14-15 and Eph 4:32, do you see any difference in these verses about forgiveness? How is forgiveness granted?
This is where it becomes important to rightly divide the Bible.
In Matthew 6:14-15 Jesus teaches his disciples how to pray according to the law (Matt 5:17). In this popular prayer pattern Jesus says forgiveness comes by forgiving other people: forgiveness was conditional, thusly vain
---michael_e on 7/21/16


The Lords prayer,to me,what Jesus gave us is Holy,what we pray although patterned after the Lords prayer is just our words and certainly not Holy. God will answer either way when prayed in Jesus Name however Christ spoke what the Father gave Him and God would be pleased when we follow His son's teaching for we are following Him. I'm not putting down the pattern way ,we all must work out our own salvation the Bible says. I pray a lot of prayers besides the Lords prayer we're told to pray and praise all the time and not to have vain repetitions therefore we must pray other prayers and take time to praise God with our own words and His. It's also good to pray the Word ,Jesus told Satan it is written.
---Darlene_1 on 7/21/16


David said, "You missed the point Brendan. It's not about whether Noah or Abraham ever sinned. It's the fact, both men trusted God. We don't really know how Noah came by it, but in the case of Abraham, we can see exactly how he came by his trust."

David, I trust in God for every breath I take. But I don't see you trying to believe me.

My testimony is too long for this blog, or I would post it here, but I too have had a long and fruitful life, witnessing to almost anyone who will stand still for 5 seconds.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/21/16


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Nicole Lacey, what is the Lord's Prayer, and where is it found in Scripture? ---Rob on 7/20/16

Jesus is our ONLY LORD.

Luke 11:1-13
One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.
He said to them, When you pray, say: Father,hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread....

Thus called 'The Lord's prayer'

It is the ONLY prayer from Jesus given to His disciples.

Also in Matthew 6:5-15

Also known as 'The Our Father' prayer because it takes the 1st 2 Words of the Prayer as written in Matthew.
---Nicole_lacey on 7/21/16


\\his. I'm not convinced that Jesus intended us to repeat it word for word but believe that each sentence of the prayer is telling us what we should pray for.\\

All the pre-Reformation Churches all over the world for the last 2000 disagree with you, Rita, as it appears in every one of their services in some place or other.

It's your opnion against bimillenial useage of the vast majority of Christians.

Or is it just to YOU that the Word of God has come so recently?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/16


Noah and Abram were both sinners---Monk_Brendan on 7/20/16

You missed the point Brendan. It's not about whether Noah or Abraham ever sinned. It's the fact, both men trusted God. We don't really know how Noah came by it, but in the case of Abraham, we can see exactly how he came by his trust.

Though Abram had doubt in Gods promise, he did what God commanded him to do. And because he did what God told him to do, he came to trust in God as Noah did.

James taught, Faith without works is useless. And did you notice in this teaching he too, like Paul, uses Abraham as his example? (James 2:17-24)

This is where the Protestant and Catholic believer are in agreement. Both believe they are saved without works.
---David on 7/21/16


Matthew 6:9 is where you will find this. I'm not convinced that Jesus intended us to repeat it word for word but believe that each sentence of the prayer is telling us what we should pray for. I'm sure that God loves to hear us use our own words providing we stick to the blueprint. The prayer covers Praise, Acknowledgement of who God is, Requests (for forgiveness, essentials, strength to not fall into temptation, and deliverance). We are all capable of wording this in our own unique way and, by doing that, we think about what we are saying far more than when we just recite it.
---Rita_H on 7/20/16


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Nicole Lacey, what is the Lord's Prayer, and where is it found in Scripture?
---Rob on 7/20/16


"Why do Protestants repeat the 'Lord's prayer' over and over again?" From whom have you heard that we do this Nicole, or where have you witnessed this?

Born-again Christians, tend to pray from the heart using words which are from NO set prayer. However, the bible says in Luke 11.2 that we are to pray thus...... and then gives us the Lord's Prayer which is a set of 'headlines' to guide us into our own personal time of speaking with the Lord.

There is a note of anger or sarcasm in your words "God heard you the first time." Are you saying that HE doesn't want to hear it more than once?

We'd say, in U.K. to such a comment "Take a chill pill and calm down."
---Rita_H on 7/20/16


David said, "The answer is found in understanding why, in the very first part of the story of Noah, why God called Noah righteous (Genesis 7:1). But when we read the story about Abram, the very beginning of his story in (Genesis 11), God did not call him righteous.

The difference is, Noah trusted God implicity. Where as Abrahams faith was developed through a lifelong relationship."


That is against Scripture too, David. "All have sinned, and all fall short of the glory of God"

Noah and Abram were both sinners. Everyone that reads the Bible is supposed to understand that.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/20/16


Repetitions mean to use a name or word several times to make a point. Romeo and Juliet's names are repeated several times because they are the focus of the story. The Lord's Prayer does not come under that type of making a point. It is prayed one time each time one goes to prayer and stops there until the next time we want to touch God and pray it only once that time. Didn't Jesus teach us to use that prayer and pray that way ?
---Darlene_1 on 7/20/16


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Why do Protestants repeat the 'Lord's prayer' over and over again?

God heard you the first time.

Be true to your beliefs and STOP repeating the 'Our Father's prayer.

Say it once and no more.

Then I will believe your words when you try to STOP me from saying my prayers.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/20/16


There is no such thing in the Bible. The verse you are looking for is Rom 4:3 Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. KJV --Monk_Brendan on 7/19/16

Counted/Credited, Different translation, same meaning.
The question, why was there a necessity for Abrahams faith to be counted/credited as righteousness?

The answer is found in understanding why, in the very first part of the story of Noah, why God called Noah righteous (Genesis 7:1). But when we read the story about Abram, the very beginning of his story in (Genesis 11), God did not call him righteous.

The difference is, Noah trusted God implicity. Where as Abrahams faith was developed through a lifelong relationship.
---David on 7/20/16


David said, "My faith in God has increased over the last 25 years, just as Abrahams faith increased over 99 years..."

David, Abram could not have had any faith while he was a infant. It wasn't until he met God the first time that he began to believe. Read Gen 12:4. Abram was 75 years old when he first heard directly from God. When Abram was about 87-89 years old, THEN he believed God, and it was counted as righteousness.

"The answer, is what Paul referred to as "Credited Righteousness".

There is no such thing in the Bible. The verse you are looking for is Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. KJV
---Monk_Brendan on 7/19/16


Who decides which repetitions are vain and which repetitions are not vain?
---john1944 on 7/18/16


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/A good example of a vain repetition is Psalm 136.\-john1944 on 7/18/16
False.
All repetitions are not vain.
Psa 136 is repetitious, but not meaningless.
There is also that which is meaningless, yet not repetitious.
Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
Anything made useless is vain, whether repetitious or not, but repetitious vanity even more so.
---micha9344 on 7/18/16


A good example of a vain repetition is Psalm 136.
---john1944 on 7/18/16


David, let me ask you a question. Are you just as strong and mature in your faith today as you were 25 years ago? ---Monk_Brendan on 7/13/16

My faith in God has increased over the last 25 years, just as Abrahams faith increased over 99 years. What Christians need to discover, is how did Abrahams faith increase, to the point where he trusted God with the life of his son Isaac in (Genesis 22), when earlier, he did not trust God with his own life in (Genesis 12:12)?

Or why did Abraham completely trust in the promise God made to him in (Genesis 17:19), but he did not completely trust in the promise God made to him in (Genesis 12:1)?

The answer, is what Paul referred to as "Credited Righteousness".
---David on 7/17/16


Mike 4879 said, " My prayers are vain repetitions. But there is also the persistent widow, and we are taught to never give up in prayer. So pick and choose Bible verses."

If you are praying from your heart, whether a formal prayer, like the Lord's Prayer, and you really mean it in your soul, then those words are not vain repetitions.

On the other hand, if one is listening to someone pray informally, and he/she is saying "Amen" after each phrase, then that is vain. One only needs to say Amen once. All the other times are vanity, redundant, and wasting your breath.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/14/16


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Vain is fruitless,without worth,conceited,archaic -foolish. When things are repeated in a prayer over and over they often become just an expected method to pray for something. God does not need His people to repeat the same thing over and over it becomes empty of the Spirits anointing and is only a production of the person. God did give prayers to say again but not at the same time. The Lords prayer is one. We must Praise and Worship God entering into the presence of God or He coming to anoint us,before offering Prayers so that we are led by the Spirit.
---Darlene_1 on 7/14/16


My prayers are vain repetitions. But there is also the persistent widow, and we are taught to never give up in prayer. So pick and choose Bible verses.
---mike4879 on 7/13/16


David said, "You can see as Abram, he did not trust God as much as when God called him Abraham. For example, the action Abram took before meeting the Pharaoh in (Genesis 12:11-13), proves he did not have as much Faith as Abraham, in the promise God made in made In (Genesis 12:1-3)."

David, let me ask you a question. Are you just as strong and mature in your faith today as you were 25 years ago?

From the time God spoke to Abram until he changed his name to Abraham was how many years?

Even from Ishmael it is 13 years until Isaac is born. Yes Abram's faith had been credited to him as righteousness back before Ishmael was born.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/13/16


David, your statements are false.
Gen 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What [is] this [that] thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she [was] thy wife?
Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
-This is why God changed Abram's name:
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham, for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
-Not Abram, but God
---micha9344 on 7/13/16


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David, Abram believed God. The change of name came at age 99, several years after God had credited Abram with righteousness.---Monk_Brendan on 7/12/16

Brendan
Look at the 99 years of Abrams life, the 99 years before he was called Abraham. Throughout these 99 years you can see his faith in God increased.

You can see as Abram, he did not trust God as much as when God called him Abraham. For example, the action Abram took before meeting the Pharaoh in (Genesis 12:11-13), proves he did not have as much Faith as Abraham, in the promise God made in made In (Genesis 12:1-3).

The change of his name to Abraham, in a manner of speaking, is the sum total of the faith by which he was credited when he was called Abram.
---David on 7/13/16


Rita H said, " Monk Brendan, please ask this of those who actually have said this about your prayers."

I have, and they never answer back. They will not give me the satisfaction of even replying to my posts, except to heap more vituperation on me.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/13/16


Monk Brendan, please ask this of those who actually have said this about your prayers.

I've had my prayers criticized behind my back (years ago) and, when told about it, said "Ask them to discuss the problems to my face and not behind my back." No-one ever did though and God's opinions of how I pray are all that matter.

If we are insincere in prayer they'll reach no further than the ceiling. If sincere they'll reach Heaven.
---Rita_H on 7/12/16


Brendan, you must take this up with the individuals who have done what you say. I believe that we should not criticize the prayers of an individual (we were just eves-droppers) when they were speaking with God.

Prayer is a one-to-one conversation with God most of the time and what God thinks of a person's prayer is far more important that what I think of someone else's prayer or what they think of mine. Most of the time I pray silently using my own words, even when in the privacy of my own home. How I pray is no-one else's business so I wish only God to hear them.
---Rita_H on 7/12/16


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One more question about this issue: How many times have you prayer "the Lord's Prayer," aka the "Our Father"

If repetitious prayers are vain, then why is the Lord's Prayer used so OFTEN? If you have asked God to hallow His Name over all the earth, to feed you, and to forgive your sins, how often are you supposed to do it?
---Monk_Brendan on 7/12/16


Rita H said, "When we pray we are supposed to be ourselves and be genuine. God knows the heart of each of us. He knows the fake from the genuine and it is not for us to ever criticise the prayers of another person."

Then why the bleeep have people on these blogs, and a lot of other places in the Protestant world called our prayers vain, if they shouldn't be criticizing other people's prayers.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/12/16


Repetition is not, necessarily 'vain', but can be. If anyone DOES use the words "God we just wanna say...." it will, almost certainly, be because that is the way that the specific individual usually speaks.

I'm sure that God wishes us to be ourselves when we pray and not use words which are not in our usual vocabulary. Prayers which come from the heart will mean more to Him than those found printed in prayer books.

When we pray we are supposed to be ourselves and be genuine. God knows the heart of each of us. He knows the fake from the genuine and it is not for us to ever criticise the prayers of another person.
---Rita_H on 7/12/16


Moderator said, Moderator - A Song isn't a prayer."

Since when? I listed three off the top of my head. With a little bit of effort, I dare say I could find hundreds of songs that are prayers.

Anything addresses to God is a prayer. Keith Green wrote some excellent ones:

Rushing Wind
Make My Life a Prayer to You
many more

(I know citing Keith Green just shows you how old I am.)

Anyway, there are lots of songs that are prayers
---Monk_Brendan on 7/12/16


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Moderator - A Song isn't a prayer.

Every song is not a prayer. Yet, these Scripture specify "sing praise".

Praise is prayer. So, many prayers are in the form of songs.

Ps 108:3
Ps 135:3
Ps 144:9
Ps 146:2
Ps 147:1
Ps 149:3
---aservant on 7/12/16


/Singing the same words over and over again is repetition. If a person is just saying the words and has no thought of contact with GOD and of a relationship with him. Then it is vain repetition. No matter Protestant or RCC.\-Samuelbb7 on 7/11/16
-I Agree.
Psa 118:1-4 O give thanks unto the LORD, for [he is] good: because his mercy [endureth] for ever. Let Israel now say, that his mercy [endureth] for ever. Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy [endureth] for ever. Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy [endureth] for ever.
Psa 136 (all)
---micha9344 on 7/12/16


David said, "It's good to study those whom God called righteous, to get a better understanding of what makes us righteous.

What made Abraham righteous, a righteousness not known by Abram?"


David, Abram believed God. The change of name came at age 99, several years after God had credited Abram with righteousness.

As far as studying righteous men, all of the lives of the saint are studies of the righteous
---Monk_Brendan on 7/12/16


Brendan
In (Matthew 6:7), Jesus is not telling us the saying of the same prayer is wrong, he is saying those whom God deems as unrighteous, the heathen, waste their time in prayer. (1 Peter 3:12)

It's good to study those whom God called righteous, to get a better understanding of what makes us righteous.
What made Abraham righteous, a righteousness not known by Abram?
---David on 7/12/16


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Samuel BB said, "Rote words with no thoughts or feelings just if I say these words GOD will do my will. Or Bless me or I get credit for this. Then that is a vain repetition. No matter who says it.

If a person is praying in front of a congregation and launches into a long prayer to show who spiritual they are that is vain repetition."


Thank you, Samuel. However there are lots of times in prayer when I say the same words, but my mind is not turned off. In each instant, I am praying with my heart, as well.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/11/16


Darlene said, " A prayer isn't a song,sometimes it may be a chant,but not a song. Sometimes there can be praise of God with a song,also. A song is mainly worship of God,giving Him adoration."

"Holy Spirit thou art welcome in this place" by Dottie Rambo

"Take my life and let it be" by Chris Tomlin

"Lead me to the Cross" by Hillsong United

Many, many more!
---Monk_Brendan on 7/11/16


"Prayer" is not necessarily a part of DEVOTION faith (worship). God gains nothing (certainly not WISDOM) from our input/feedback. Our petitioning of Him and informing Him yields no benefits TO HIM and expresses OUR lack of faith and trust in Him. Of course many people will insist on doing it, but God points out to us that WORSHIP/honor should not include lip service...

Isa 29:13 And the Lord said: "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men learned by rote,

He says that this is done by those who have learned to fear Him (God is not a punisher).
---faithforfaith on 7/11/16


Singing the same words over and over again is repetition. If a person is just saying the words and has no thought of contact with GOD and of a relationship with him. Then it is vain repetition. No matter Protestant or RCC.

Rote words with no thoughts or feelings just if I say these words GOD will do my will. Or Bless me or I get credit for this. Then that is a vain repetition. No matter who says it.

If a person is praying in front of a congregation and launches into a long prayer to show who spiritual they are that is vain repetition.

What do you think?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/11/16


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A prayer isn't a song,sometimes it may be a chant,but not a song. Sometimes there can be praise of God with a song,also. A song is mainly worship of God,giving Him adoration.
---Darlene_1 on 7/11/16


BTW, Moderator, if a hymn is not a prayer, why do so many of them have an AMEN at the end?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/11/16


Monk Brendan, don't you realize that only CATHOLIC repetitions are automatically vain?

PROTESTANT ones never are.

Moderator, a hymn is properly a prayer. As St. Augustine said, "The one who sings prays twice."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/10/16


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