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Change 10 Commandments

Why have the Protestants taken the first Commandment, and stretched it into two? And then why did they push the last two into one?

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 7/15/16
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//Agreed wives are not property. Yet the point is does the bowing down to statues break the Ten Commandments?,---Samuelbb7

No, unless you are bowing down in the form of worship.

Did the Israelites worship the bronze snake? Numbers 21:9

Even though they HAD to acknowledge the snake by looking at it in order to get healed and LIVE.

How come they didn't see it as a form of idol worship?

And why did God tell them to look at the bronze snake for healing?

Why couldn't they look at the tent of the Presence (Where God dwelled) for a healing?

After all the order was made AFTER the 10th Commandments was given.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/14/16


Agreed wives are not property. Yet the point is does the bowing down to statues break the Ten Commandments?

Exodus 20:3-11
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
---Samuelbb7 on 9/13/16


//Yet the (Cath.) 10th has women as the same as animals or objects.//

Again, Wives or Spouse are NOT property.

You do NOT OWN a wife!

Slaves are considered as property. That's why they are called slaves.

***Slavery is a legal or economic system in which principles of property law are applied to humans allowing them to be classified as property.--Wikipedia

It isn't a hard concept.

//"Thou shalt not covet" covers it, cf.//
**Do not hit my car.---ME
--micha9344

Really? Now you are comparing wives to cars?

Now you all SEE WHY the RCC left the 9th commandment for wives and the 10th commandment for property.

You are so confused!

Wives are not property. GOT IT?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/12/16


/Putting women as the same as animals or objects.\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/18/16
/You can't figure out the value of a Human Being from an object.\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16
-Yet the (Cath.) 10th has women as the same as animals or objects.
/You can say my neighbor STOLE my dog, but not my wife.\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/19/16
-Stealing is the 8th (7th) Commandment.
/One is Lust and the other envy\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
-Yet, Jesus said lust was the 7th (6th) commandment.
-Lust and Theft are not coveting. Envy and Jealousy are.
"Thou shalt not covet" covers it, cf. Do not hit my car.
---micha9344 on 9/11/16


but now you are simply being frustratingly redundant. I'm done with this. Be blessed ---josef on 9/8/16

THANK YOU, next time just ANSWER the question, and it won't be frustratingly.

Saying "I don't know' is an answer, but I will accept the answer above.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/9/16




Again. Why DIDN'T you use the word 'Lust' for both commandments? (After all we have a word max of 125)

Nicole this was fun for a while, but now you are simply being frustratingly redundant. I'm done with this. Be blessed
---josef on 9/8/16


"Roman 13:9 ends with "and any other commandment" as the end so I guess that includes property NOT Wives. Period!"

No Nicole, Rom. 13:8-10 is about love for our fellow man, "If there be any other commandment" is in reference to the command to honor our mother and father. Which was included in list Jesus quoted in Mat. 19:18, although the quote "thou shalt not covet" was excluded, I figure the quote was amended with "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" because it is all inclusive, and He was speaking to a rich man. But of course that is simply my view of the conversation.
---josef on 9/8/16


//John 8:44..1Co 9:27---micha9344

?? Please explain how your 2 Passages has ANYTHING to do with the Last 2 Commandments or Last Commandment for our discussion?

Please clarify your post. Thanks

//Rom. 13:9,..The referenced post, all of it, is your answer, and I can't make it any clearer, or simpler.--josef on 9/7/16

FINALLY an answer, but for the wrong question

Again. Why DIDN'T you use the word 'Lust' for both commandments? (After all we have a word max of 125)

You could have combined Lust, but you didn't? Why?

//As for coveting, again, coveting is coveting period, whether It's LUST for the WIFE, or ENVY concerning the PROPERTY of another.---josef on 9/3/16
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/8/16


"//I used words lust and envy because you did.//
I NEVER used those words. Look for yourself.
//I didn't use lust for both because you didn't//
Now you are changing the SCRIPT again."-Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/16
"One is Lust and the other envy"-Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16
John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1Co 9:27 ...lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
"I CAN admit it when I am WRONG."-Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16
---micha9344 on 9/7/16


"Josef, since there is TWO Commandments with the words of coveting then you are admitting only 4 Commandments were listed."

No, there are five listed in Rom. 13:9, count them.

"This must be hard for you,"

No Nicole, for me, it's quite simple. The referenced post, all of it, is your answer, and I can't make it any clearer, or simpler.
---josef on 9/7/16




Nicole, Nicole, Nicole, please show us anywhere we said your cognitive skills are low.

Could it be we have trouble relating and understanding you because your cognative skills are beyond ours?

I personally know of cases where people are highly intelligent, but they lack common sense.

I myself try to maintain an equal balance.
---Rob on 9/7/16


Nicole: "//(Dan 7:25). To whom do you think that refers?---Jerry6593
Please quote the WHOLE Passage."

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

It refers to the Papacy. As you've admitted, the RCC changed the Sabbath Commandment. She also persecuted God's people for 1260 years.


---Jerry6593 on 9/8/16


Rob, I didn't want to do this, but based on your past posts, WHY are you so MAD at me?

You don't know me.

You never seen me.

I should not get under your skin as I am.

It's okay!

Even though Josef agreed with you that my cognitive skills are low, I am not upset.

WHY?

Because I don't KNOW you or Josef. I don't care.

Ever heard of the 18/ 40 /60 rule?

At the age of 18 you think everyone is thinking/talking about you.

At 40, you don't care if people are thinking or talking about you.

(I'm 44)

At 60, you realizes no one is thinking or talking about you.

Join the fun Josef and I are having on CN.

Life is stressful, but it shouldn't be on CN.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


Josef, since there is TWO Commandments with the words of coveting then you are admitting only 4 Commandments were listed.

Roman 13:9 ends with "and any other commandment" as the end so I guess that includes property NOT Wives. Period!

//reread what has already been posted. Ref.--josef//

This must be hard for you, but your reposting has to have the answer to my question.

In fact I will show how you admitted you didn't have an answer for me because you said:

//Let me put it this way, I didn't use lust for both because you didn't,---josef on 9/4/16

//I find her interesting, and I'm just having fun:o)---josef

No offense. I am having fun as well.

Don't mind Rob, he is a little grumpy
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


//egregious sin ..it violates the written word of God Himself.//

The RCC changed the Sabbath from Saturday to the 1st day (Resurrection day) as the Authority given to her in Matthew 16:13-19

Luke 5:39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.

//(Dan 7:25). To whom do you think that refers?---Jerry6593

Please quote the WHOLE Passage.

It states:
He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thing to change the feast days and the law.

The reference is to the persecutions of Antiochus IV and his attempt to force the Jews to give up their customs and to adopt Hellenistic ways (1 Mc 1. 33f)...footnotes from New American Bible
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


"This Passage isn't combining the last 2 into one Commandments."

The last one Pail listed is "Thou shalt not covet" period.

"Repost your answer and I will apologize."

Nicole reread what has already been posted. Ref.--josef on 9/4/16

"I CAN admit it when I am WRONG" >>Can you?

Yes Rob, I know. I find her interesting, and I'm just having fun:o)
No offense intended, and I truly hope she is not, I mean no harm.
---josef on 9/7/16


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//Rom 13:9//

FINALLY you answered something DIRECT! THANK YOU

Roman 13:9 For the commandments,...and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

This Passage isn't combining the last 2 into one Commandments.

In fact Paul is saying if you love someone truly you kept ALL the Commandments. Read V8

//I'm through repeating myself.---josef

Yes, and I DON'T WANT you to repeat yourself.

I WANT you to answer the question which you have NEVER answered.

Repeating means: restating a subject word from word, or in another way but with the same meaning.

Repost your answer and I will apologize.

I CAN admit it when I am WRONG. Can you?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


Josef, you should understand regarding cognitive skills, Nicole is at a much different level than the average person.
---Rob on 9/7/16


"//The Father inspired both, and Moses and Paul agree.//---josef on 9/6/16

Stop spinning!"
:oD))))) What's the spin Nicole?

"BTW, please CITE Passages of what you CLAIM Paul speaking about the 'last 5 commandments'." >>>Rom 13:9

"2 or 3 Witness are NOT needed to tell me it was Moses."

The witnessing scripture simply supplies a substantiating list of the last five commandments.

"Stop stalling and answer my question.

Nicole I would have thought you would have figured out by now that I'm through repeating myself.
---josef on 9/7/16


Nicole: Pardon me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say on another blog that Peter changed the Sabbath Commandment after he died? That seems to me like a more egregious sin than improperly parsing the Commandment order from that originally intended - particularly as it violates the written word of God Himself.

Daniel prophesied of the "little horn, beast" power "thinking to change times and laws" (Dan 7:25). To whom do you think that refers?



---Jerry6593 on 9/7/16


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//The Father inspired both, and Moses and Paul agree.//

Stop spinning!

That isn't what you said.

//Paul listed the last five commandment---josef//

BTW, please CITE Passages of what you CLAIM Paul speaking about the 'last 5 commandments'.

//Scripture interprets scripture//

Only LINE BY LINE

//A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.---josef

WHY? You have Scripture according to you?

No need for testimony witnesses.

The Bible told me Moses got the 10 Commandments from God and gave them to us.

2 or 3 Witness are NOT needed to tell me it was Moses.

You need 60 wrong witness to back you up

Stop stalling and answer my question.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/6/16


True Nicole. But words on a wall are not words written in our hearts by being Born Again.

Our actions on the words of GOD is what shows who we are. Actions speak louder then words.

Since today all the same words are there in about the same order. I just want you to listen to all the words and follow them. Because they are the words of GOD.

As Jesus said we are to live by every word that came out of the mouth of GOD.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/6/16


"Because it was MOSES who got the 10 Commandments from God and gave them to the people NOT PAUL."

The Father inspired both, and Moses and Paul agree.

"STOP running to Paul to excuse your misinterpretation of the Bible."

Scripture interprets scripture. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
---josef on 9/6/16


The point is not the order but do you keep them. Do your actions show that you love GOD and love others.---Samuelbb7on 9/5/16

That's the problem.

Thinking that any order is okay.

Which I know you don't believe your own words.

If someone gave you a free beautiful gold framed 10 Commandments picture with the 1st 3 Commandments placed 7th instead of 1st, TRUST me you WOULDN'T hang it or even except it.

WHY?

Because the Commandments about God is greater than those against us.

God is Greater than us.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/6/16


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//Paul listed the last five commandment...Why is that not good enough for you?---josef

Because it was MOSES who got the 10 Commandments from God and gave them to the people NOT PAUL.

STOP running to Paul to excuse your misinterpretation of the Bible.

//do you honestly think the wife is of more value in the Father's eyes than the servants?//

Really? The Commandments is for us mere people NOT God.

Do you think God NEEDS a list of commandments to keep Himself straight???

Answer the question

I will post the question again, if you forgot.

WHY didn't you use the same word 'lust' for both since they are coveting both?---Nicole_Lacey 9/3/16

Can you NOW answer?---Nicole_Lacey 9/5/16
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/6/16


Nicole when Paul listed the last five commandment concerning love for our fellowman. He listed them as the protestant does, "Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [and] Thou shalt not covet. Why is that not good enough for you?
If you think the commands concerning coveting should be separated according to value, why separate the wife from the servant, do you honestly think the wife is of more value in the Father's eyes than the servants? If according to importance, then why are they listed differently in Exodus, than they are in Deuteronomy? The Father inspired both listings.
---josef on 9/6/16


I obey Matthew 7:1-5. I have not judged anyone. I just say some are incorrect and others are correct.

We don't allow or disallow people. We teach people the truth and let them decide.

We don't believe the Apocrypha is part of the Old Testament. But I have Bible with them and have read them.

The point is not the order but do you keep them. Do your actions show that you love GOD and love others.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/16


//the focus is on the act and not the object."--josef//

No the focus is on WHY you all combined Wives with property.

//"Lust is ONLY used with other Human Beings."-Me

By whose rules, yours?-Josef//

No, The Commandment's rules!

You all can't go around rearranging the Commandments.

//dictionary Lust-"a passionate or overmastering (usually followed by for). Ex: lust for power."//

The 9th or 10th Commandments isn't talking about power.

Let's stick to Wives and Property.

//What question is that, or do you know?--josef on 9/5/16

Why didn't you use the same word 'lust' for both since they are coveting both?---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/16

Can you NOW answer?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/16


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//I know of a number of Catholics who have joined the Seventh day Adventist church. Sola Scriptura.//

Wow, did you all allow them to keep all of the OT (all 46 Books)?

After all, you believe in Sola Scriptura the least you can do is allow them to keep all the Scriptures


//Exodus20 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,...//

We know, we know. Still part of the 1st Commandment.

The question is WHY did you all break it up into 2 Commandments when they are same Commandment?

Then you all combined the last 2 Commandments into 1 when they are NOT the same. Why?

//They don't go to JESUS. They choose a saint instead of Jesus. We are to pray to GOD.--Samuelbb7

Then OBEY HIM Matthew 7:1-5
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/16


"the focus is on the act and not the object."--josef

Same problem When you desire a wife and his property they are still treated and called differently.

One is Lust and the other envy
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16

"Lust is ONLY used with other Human Beings." By whose rules, yours?

Webster dictionary Lust-"a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for). Example: lust for power."

The subject is covetousness, not greed, now those are two different things.

"Now PLEASE answer the question" What question is that, or do you know?


---josef on 9/5/16


Nicole we disagree on the meaning. To us to honor a person by making a statue and bowing down before that statue and asking that state and the saint it represents to answer your prayers.

Is placing that dead saint in the place of God and worshipping an idol.

To most RCC it is veneration of a person who has a special in with GOD so that they can get their prayers answered better and faster.

So way different understanding.

In many of the older Catechisms the words were left out. But the newer ones contain the words.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/16


Correction to previous post, my last statement should read "The subject is covetousness, not greed, and those are different subjects".

"BTW, Lust, Avarice and Envy all 3 of the 7 deadly sins.
Because they are ALL DIFFERENT!"
---Nicole_Lacey

Yet covet is a synonym for all three, thus synonymous with all three.
---josef on 9/5/16


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//I used words lust and envy because you did.//

I NEVER used those words. Look for yourself.

//I didn't use lust for both because you didn't//

Now you are changing the SCRIPT again.

//lust is simply an intense desire.---josef

No it isn't. Unless one is doing inappropriate physical things with objects?

Lust is ONLY used with other Human Beings.

AVARICE is the word you are looking for Property:

Avarice. NOUN

1.extreme greed for wealth or material gain.

synonyms: greed greediness, acquisitiveness cupidity, COVETOUSNESS rapacity

BTW, Lust, Avarice and Envy all 3 of the 7 deadly sins.

Because they are ALL DIFFERENT!

Now PLEASE answer the question
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/16


Women are greater then Property in all Christian Churches. Rome and Greece regarded women as property. Never the Bible or Christians. Who believe in the Bible.

I know of a number of Catholics who have joined the Seventh day Adventist church. Sola Scriptura.

Exodus 20

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: ...

I live in Texas. Many here look to the statues of saints for hope and help and to ward off curses and bring luck.

They don't go to JESUS. They choose a saint instead of Jesus. We are to pray to GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/4/16


"Josef, you still DIDN'T answer the question why you DIDN'T use the same word 'lust' for both commandments. Answer the question if you CAN?"

Nicole you obviously like going in circles, again, I used words lust and envy because you did. Lust could have easily, and appropriately been used for both. Let me put it this way, I didn't use lust for both because you didn't, and I wanted to illustrate that it didn't matter which word you used, both relate to covetousness, in the contexts of coveting, lust is simply an intense desire.
---josef on 9/4/16


Josef, you still DIDN'T answer the question why you DIDN'T use the same word 'lust' for both commandments.

Answer the question if you CAN?

//I don't think that you Catholics will ever convince us Protestants//

WHAT? You all started this not us Catholics!

You all who claim we changed the Commandments.

We said no.

You all who claim we worship idols and we are wrong about the True Presence.

We are not trying to convince you all.

We are stating FACTS to your response.

Please DON'T switch the script!

//..courtroom discussion, the judge..They side with the Protestants.---Jerry6593

NOPE!

Our Court Systems believes Women are greater than property.

Thank God!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/4/16


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"Really, Josef? Even you don't believe that, PERIOD!"

Nicole I believe exactly what I have written.

Look at what you wrote:
You used the word 'LUST' for a wife and 'ENVY' for property"
Why didn't you use the same word 'lust' for both since they are coveting both?


I simply used the words you used in your response to me on. on 7/21/16

"Because you RATHER have someone envy your property than lust over your wife!"

What I rather have is irrelevant as pertaining to the Father's command not to covet.
---josef on 9/3/16


Nicole & Brendan: I don't think that you Catholics will ever convince us Protestants or vice versa, any more than you will convince us that the wafer and wine of communion turns into REAL flesh and blood.

If this was a courtroom discussion, the judge would consult the original intent of the lawgiver. Since this Law was written by God and given to the Jews for safekeeping, it makes sense to check the manner in which the Jews parse the Ten Commandments. I just did. They side with the Protestants.


---Jerry6593 on 9/4/16


Samuel, no we don't. We disagree what is the 2nd Commandment, not the meaning.

Look at Exodus 20:1-7 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21 both God speaks about Jeolous and punishment and mercy before going to the commandment of His name being used in vain.

V6-10 in Deuteronomy and Exodus v1-7 He starts off with NOT TO HAVE OTHER gods BESIDES ME.

(Look at my 'don't hit my car')

Curving idols means other gods.

Really, Josef?
Even you don't believe that, PERIOD!

Look at what you wrote:
You used the word 'LUST' for a wife and 'ENVY' for property.

Why didn't you use the same word 'lust' for both since they are coveting both?

Because you RATHER have someone envy your property than lust over your wife!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/16


Nicole on 9/2, I know no such thing, the First commandment is the command to respect and honor the Father as sovereign. He is informing man that He is the first, last, and only God, and man should have no God besides Him. And although embracing this mentality of reverent honor and homage is the state of worship. In my view, this should be separate from the commandment concerning the act of worship associated with the second command, which deals with worship as the action of rendering the religious reverence and homage that is due Father alone to an object, which He declares to be Idolatry. As for coveting, again, coveting is coveting period, whether It's lust for the wife, or envy concerning the property of another.
---josef on 9/3/16


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We place the Ten Commandments the way we do because of the wording in the second by our list.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The Tenth is about coveting. Coveting a person's wife is coveting.

Protestants and Catholics disagree about the meaning of the Second Commandments in our list.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/3/16


Now everyone knows why we Catholics think it is odd for you all to break up the 1st Commandment into 2 Commandments.

Claiming your first 2 Commandments are different when we ALL (including you all) know they are the same.

And your last 2 Commandments should have NEVER been combined!

Your Wives are NOT property.

I know why you all had to combined the last 2 commandments:

To keep the number 10
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/16


GREAT! No# 1 complaint.

If I tell you:

DO NOT HIT MY CAR!

*DO NOT punch it or kick it.

*DO NOT use an object to strike at it, or throw anything at my car in the day time nor at night time.

*DO NOT ask someone, or pay anyone to hit my car.

*DO NOT drop anything on it, or push anything into my car.

Everything I said after my first sentence is still contained in the FIRST sentence.

No 4 more commands, just info on what constitutes 'hitting my car.

The expansion on HOW NOT to hit my car is only to clarify WHAT HITTING means.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/31/16


Kathr said, "And we all thought you were so INTELLIGENT. NOT IN MY BOOK."

That is because the book you are reading is on the kindergarten level, and I am in the Lamb's Book of Life!
---Monk_Brendan on 8/31/16


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As I said before,
If your wife, dog and car are missing from your home and you tell the police:
'Someone stole my wife, dog and car!.'

The police will focus on you because NO ONE in his right mind combines the 3.

The complaint would be:

SOMEONE KIDNAPPED my Wife. HELP. Please find her!

Not until the Police Officer calms him down will he find out about the missing dog and car.

His only concern is to get his wife back alive and safe!

I sure he would agree for the kidnappers (Note: They are not called Thieves because the wife is a HUMAN BEING) to keep the dog and car if his wife returns safely.

The last two are of NO VALUE to the Husband!
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/22/16


"You can't figure out the value of a Human Being from an object."
As understanding unfolds of who Jesus is and what he has done, it becomes quite apparent who and what is valued in who and what Christ died fot...laying down his life, that they might have life.

What or who is desired is a heart matter and has little to do with the object. Often coveting may be justified in ones mind simply because the object is good, and might be thought in that ones mind as better than those who covet what might be deemed not good. Simply put, in coveting or desiring something one does not have, a lack of satisfaction and thus acceptance may be revealed, thus a lack of trust in Gods providence.
---chria9396 on 7/22/16


"the focus is on the act and not the object."--josef

Same problem When you desire a wife and his property they are still treated and called differently.

One is Lust and the other envy

WOW Micha, give it up.

servants are human beings ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE MADE FROM THE IMAGE OF GOD.

X. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods ---Monk_Brendan 7/18/16

How did you mix goods with Servants?

This is what happens when you all combined 9 and 10.

You can't figure out the value of a Human Being from an object.

Then you blame the Bible for your insensitivity.
As long as it's your Bible, not the Catholic's Bible.

The RCC KNOWS the VALUE of women and protects her at all times.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16


Nicole, please read the posts.
I didn't claim that you thought animals were made in the image of God, quite the contrary.
My claim is that you must think that servants are not made in the image of God.
If you need a cite, so be it.
/Putting women as the same as animals or objects.\
/Josef didn't even complete the sentence because even he knows that women are higher than goods/objects.\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/18/16
Since servants are not in the RCC 9th C, then you have either labeled them as objects or animals.
My apologies if I presumed you thought them to be animals, and not objects.
/Or do you think he was speaking about 4 walls?\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16
-Yes, like Gen 19:11, or 1Ki 6:4.
---micha9344 on 7/21/16


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That's not only untrue, it's presumptuous. Coveting has nothing to do an objects worth, it is simply a desire for what someone else possesses. As mentioned earlier, "the focus is on the act and not the object."
---josef on 7/21/16


It is clear that, in the parallel passage of Exo 20:17, the word "house" does not mean "household." ---micha9344

Before you jump into a disagreement, read the Bible first.

Cite where I said animals have the Image of God?? Go to the Gorilla post and see the opposite of your post.

Genesis 35:2
So Jacob said to his HOUSEHOLD and to all who were with him, "Put away the foreign gods which are among you, and purify yourselves and change your garments, (Animals don't worship)

And Joshua said unto all the people [of Israel], choose you this day whom ye will serve, but as for me and my HOUSE, we will serve the Lord (Josh. 24:2, 15).

Or do you think he was speaking about 4 walls?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/16


Cluny, I take that as a compliment from you. Christians don't pat themselves on the back for being intelligent. You and Monk however do. But the wisdom of this world is nonsense with God. Remember what they said about Peter at Pentecost...." LOOK, he is an UNLEARNED man". And WHO said that but the learned Pharisees.

Yet you hold Peter higher than anyone, an unlearned man. Are you somewhat a hypocrite here Cluny. At least Peter did not believe anything the RCC teaches. That Sounds very intelligent to me.
---kathr4453 on 7/21/16


Cluny I think you and Kathr are both intelligent in my book. You may have different view points put that doesn't altar a persons intelligence. I think we all speak from a denominational point of view. As a person sees so do they walk and talk. Jesus Loves
---Darlene_1 on 7/21/16


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\\And we all thought you were so INTELLIGENT. NOT IN MY BOOK.\\

So what, kathr.

You're not intelligent in mine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/16


Kathr said, "I would suggest all of you look up EVERY VERSE that uses the word Covet or coveted or covetousness , rather than argue some silly nonsense argument you try to make mountains out of nothing. And we all thought you were so INTELLIGENT. NOT IN MY BOOK."

That's your opinion. If you don't like it then chacun a son gout!
---Monk_Brendan on 7/20/16


Monk, you do know what the word NOR means, correct. Paul was not a Protestant, and I never said he was either. I said Paul, who was and knew the LAW did not specify the 10 commandment into any specific part NOR do Protestants. If Paul was a Protestant the NOR would be redundant now wouldn't it.

Monk you are beginning to sound like Nicole in your reasoning.

I would suggest all of you look up EVERY VERSE that uses the word Covet or coveted or covetousness , rather than argue some silly nonsense argument you try to make mountains out of nothing. And we all thought you were so INTELLIGENT. NOT IN MY BOOK.
---kathr4453 on 7/20/16


/Just in case one doesn't know what is in a household, God breaks it down for him.
That why the RCC has the wife BEFORE any animal.\-Nicole_Lacey on 7/20/16
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Scripture interprets scripture.
It is clear that, in the parallel passage of Exo 20:17, the word "house" does not mean "household."
Also, according to Nicole, servants are animals and not made in the image of God, therefore not separated out from the rest of the 10th Commandment.
---micha9344 on 7/20/16


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Be specific.---josef

I did when I said you don't report someone STOLE my wife, but KIDNAPPED my wife.

Exodus 20: 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's
So your argument now crumbles with your common sense.---kathr4453

No, it shows you don't know HOW to interpret Scripture.

House means HOUSEHOLD.
Look at what GOD named FIRST in the list of household. WIFE!

Just in case one doesn't know what is in a household, God breaks it down for him.

That why the RCC has the wife BEFORE any animal.

She (RCC) can interpret Scripture as God tells her.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/20/16


Kathr said, "...Paul who was an expert on the Law, we would all agree on, does not divide the 10th commandment int two, nor has any PROTESTANT."

Since when was Paul a Protestant. He was not. He was a Bishop of the early Catholic Orthodox Church, united in faith.

So, who or what was Paul protesting against? He could not have been protesting the cancellation of "religious freedom" in Germany under the Imperial Government, which happened in 1529.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/20/16


Exodus 20: 17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house,
thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife,
nor his manservant,
nor his maidservant,
nor his ox,
nor his ass,
nor any thing that is thy neighbor's

Ok Nicole, if you believe the ORDER in which God said this is the order of importance, THEN a man's HOUSE is more important than his wife.

So your argument now crumbles with your common sense. The last words sum up the WHOLE OF THE COMMANDMENT.

Nicole, would you really rather come across as having the mentality of a two year old to save your pride? Because that's what it sounds like.
---kathr4453 on 7/20/16


"What does that have to do with coveting?---josef on 7/19/16

It reveals how you truly think about women."


In what way Nicole? Be specific.
---josef on 7/19/16


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What does that have to do with coveting?---josef on 7/19/16

It reveals how you truly think about women.

Grow up Nicole. ---kathr4453 on 7/19/16

Don't get upset with me. It's your protestant roots lowering women to the status of animals.

News Flash Kathr, God gave the 10 commandants to Moses not Paul.

God PLACED the Commandments in order. Most important ones on top to the lest at the bottom.
So God, not Paul placed Wives higher than cows, objects and the like.

I. I am the Lord your God: you shall not have strange gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image

IX. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

X. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods--Monk_Brendan
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/19/16


Kathr said, "Grow up Nicole."

Grow up yourself, Kathr
---Monk_Brendan on 7/19/16


"Coveting is coveting period.--josef


Nope, a cow isn't made in the Image of God.

Listen, not even man's laws agrees with you two.

You can say my neighbor STOLE my dog, but not my wife.

You say my neighbor KIDNAPPED my wife.

COME ON GUYS!
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/19/16"


What does that have to do with coveting? Biblically defined as "(Qal) to desire" or "(Piel) to delight greatly." from the Hebrew word "chamad".
---josef on 7/19/16


Nicole, your argument is rediculous. I was showing even Paul who was an expert on the Law, we would all agree on, does not divide the 10th commandment int two, nor has any PROTESTANT.

YOU and Monk made that all up without any back up what so ever proving it is true. The BIBLE which is our ONLY AUTHORITY of scripture does not divide the 10th commandments into two commandments. That came strictly from the RCC Catechism.

Grow up Nicole.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/16


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The emphasis on the 10th C (or 9th and 10th RCC C) is not on the object of the covetousness, but on the person coveting, hence coveting is coveting.
The desire to have what is somebody else's is wrong.
One Command as illustrated in Exo 20:17 and Deu 5:21.
Notice in v17 house is first, but in v21 wife is first.
This shows the focus is on the act and not the object.
Also, the servants were made in God's image as well, but RCC still put's them as 10, so that argument has no merit.
---micha9344 on 7/19/16


It's obvious Nicole you don't know or even understand what coveting means. If you did, you would see the 17 verse of Exodus 20 sums up all the words stated before. Thou shall not covet ANYTHING. It has nothing to do with the item that is coveted as one being more important than another, therefore needs to be broken down. It doesn't. To covet someone's pig is just as sinful to God as to covet his wife. Wives shouldn't covet thy neighbors husbands either, OR THEIR INCOME, BIGGER HOUSE, etc. it's being jealous of what others have who may have more than you. Women even covet things other women have they don't, like a better job, beauty, etc. It's not being satisfied with what God has given you, but wanting what someone else has.
---kathr453 on 7/19/16


Paul does not make any specific distinction between women or cows or property for the commandments---kathr4453

Paul isn't God. God gave Moses the 10 Commandants in the OT, not to Paul in the NT.

At least now I know why and how you all combined the last 2 Commandments.
You went into the future (NT) to justify your changing of the 10 Commandants.

Can you all agree that God is the Creator and Paul is a Creature?


Coveting is coveting period.--josef


Nope, a cow isn't made in the Image of God.

Listen, not even man's laws agrees with you two.

You can say my neighbor STOLE my dog, but not my wife.

You say my neighbor KIDNAPPED my wife.

COME ON GUYS!
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/19/16


Nicole, Protestants have NOT changed the 10 commandments found in Deut or Exodus, and we see Paul does not make any specific distinction between women or cows or property for the 10th commandment "thou shall not covet" .

Romans7:7God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---kathr4453 on 7/18/16


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Nicole_Lacey on 7/18/16-I did not complete the verse because of the word limit. Coveting is coveting period. The verse reads "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's." The verse is inclusive in and of itself, and dividing the verse isn't warranted or necessary. The First commandment on the other hand speaks to the Father's sovereignty, the fact that He is supreme, and in my view, should be separated from the commandment concerning how he is to be worshipped.
---josef on 7/18/16


Here is the 10th Commandment. You will see it is not only all one verse, but all one sentence, with COMMAS, NOT PERIODS. Nor is it 6 commandments either. The RCC Catechism made this one commandment into 2, moving the 3rd commandment into #2, omitting the 2 commandment, making it look like it is with #1. Not only are we to have no other gods, BUT, we are also not to make graven images of ANYTHING OR ANYONE, including Mary or Saints or whatever.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
---kathr453 on 7/18/16


Correction to prior post. "The First commandment on the other hand speaks to the Father's sovereignty, the fact that He is supreme, and in my view," should be separated from the commandment concerning worship.
---josef on 7/19/16


According to my translation and the Douay-Rheims translation, both translations have the first two commands in separate verses, and the do not covet command lists house and wife and servants and animals all in Exodus 20:17, in both my version and the Catholic Douay-Rheims.

So, Monk Brendan, it appears that both Protestant and Catholic Bibles have the last command combining house and wife and servants and animals. Plus, in both Protestant and Catholic translation work, the first two commands are in separate verses > Exodus 20:3 & 4-6.

Why do these get more attention than our First and Second Love Commandments???? Matthew 22:36-40.
---Bill on 7/19/16


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Do you see how Protestants broke up the 1st Commandment into 2 Commandments?

They couldn't change the number from 10 to 11, so they combined the last 2 two Commandments.

Putting women as the same as animals or objects.

10.Thou shalt not covet... ---josef on 7/17/16

Josef didn't even complete the sentence because even he knows that women are higher than goods/objects.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/18/16


Here is a condensed version of the Catholic 10

"I. I am the Lord your God: you shall not have strange gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image.

II. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

III. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.

IV. Honor your father and mother.

V. You shall not kill.

VI. You shall not commit adultery.

VII. You shall not steal

VIII. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

IX. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

X. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods
---Monk_Brendan on 7/18/16


Monk Brendan this is a condensed summary of the 10 commandments as listed in both Exo 20:3-17 & Deu 5:6-21 Just how has the first been stretched into two, or the last two combined? How does the Catholic listing differ?
1. I am the the LORD thy God... Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness,... Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor serve them...
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD your God in vain...
4. Remember the sabbath an keep it Holy...
5. Honor thy mother and thy father...
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness...
10.Thou shalt not covet...
---josef on 7/17/16


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