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Give Up 501(c) 3 Status

Would your denominational "church" give up its 501(c)3 non-profit status?

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 ---Steveng on 8/1/16
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//Strange, it was based on RomneyCare, invented by a Republican.//

49 other States to move to when RomneyCare started hemorrhaging.

FORGOT what happened in Massachusetts?

Ted Kennedy died, so Deval Laurdine Patrick (DEMOCRAT Governor) appointed Paul Kirk another Democrat to fill Kennedy's seat.

But the PEOPLE of Mass ELECTED Scott Brown a REPUBLICAN to fill Kennedy's seat to STOP OBAMACARE.

So the Democrats Party wouldn't LET the elected Senator vote, but ALLOWED the appointed Senator to vote.

//I bet the source for those statistics ends with '.gov'-ME
And what would be wrong with that?---StrongAxe

Because it is on the Government website making up statistics to support Obamacare.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/26/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: I have it your sources are WRONG. 1% pays 93%

Then cite YOUR sources.

They are COUNTED TWICE.

How so? Again, cite your sources.

//Republicans control both houses of Congress!//

Not one Republican vote for Obamacare

Strange, it was based on RomneyCare, invented by a Republican.

I bet the source for those statistics ends with '.gov'

And what would be wrong with that?
---StrongAxe on 8/26/16


//Google: tax demographics "by income"

I have it your sources are WRONG. 1% pays 93%

//I didn't have Medicaid//

Counting you is correct. Not about you

//families with children.//

They are COUNTED TWICE.

//Republicans control both houses of Congress!//

Really? NOW they do, but NOT before Nov 2010 When OBAMACARE PASSED by the Democrats. Not one Republican vote for Obamacare

The Americans REALIZED they were cheated and KICKED a lot of Democrats out of office
Thus the Republicans control both houses NOW.
We have to CLEAN UP the mess you all caused with Obamacare.

//Google Obamacare statistics.--StrongAxeb

I bet the source for those statistics ends with '.gov'
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/26/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Yet, STILL PAYS 93% of ALL taxes paid to the IRS.

Google: tax demographics "by income"
Not even close: ... the Top 1 Percent Paid 35 Percent of All Income Taxes in 2011

Yes who already had MEDICAID.

I didn't have Medicaid when I went into the hospital, but qualified for it due to my condition. Without Obamacare, I wouldn't have - at that time, it was restricted to families with children.

All Republican's plans were REJECTED by Democrats

So? Republicans control both houses of Congress!

Not according to actual FACTS.

Google Obamacare statistics. The uninsured rate went DOWN in 49/50 states between 2010 and 2014.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/16


Oops StrongAxe, I meant double dipping not deep
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/16




//Mean rich white men 1% avoid most taxes.//

Yet, STILL PAYS 93% of ALL taxes paid to the IRS.

//tax burden is the middle class//

NOPE, they pay only 7% of all taxes.

//Obamacare helps the same people welfare helps//

Yes who already had MEDICAID.

//ABSOLUTELY NO plans to replace it with//

All Republican's plans were REJECTED by Democrats

You do know Obamacare DOESN'T mean health care?

//Many more GAINED it because of Obamacare.---StrongAxe

Not according to actual FACTS. CAN'T DOUBLE DEEP.

They counted those who had Medicaid, but now on Obamacare.
More LOST insurance and those with Obamacare CAN'T find facilities accepting OBAMACARE!

NOW many lost their DOCTORS
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/16


Nicole_Lacey:

(reposted as original "disappeared")

Mean rich white men (the 1%) have tax shelters and tax loopholes to avoid most taxes. The major tax burden is on the middle class.

I am AGAINST OBAMACARE.

Obamacare helps the same people welfare helps. Why do you want people to not starve, yet refuse them health care? Republicans scream about repealing Obamacare, yet have ABSOLUTELY NO plans to replace it with.

I know first hand of the many people who LOST their healthcare because of OBAMACARE.

Many more GAINED it because of Obamacare. Some people died in car accidents because of seat belts, but many more lives were saved. Should we ban seat belts because of those unfortunate few?
---StrongAxe on 8/24/16


//Congratulations!//

For what? Accepting handouts? It wasn't hard.

Instead of congratulating me, why not say 'GOD BLESS THIS GREAT COUNTRY'

BTW, why don't you acknowledge those so called MEAN RICH WHITE MEN for PAYING the bill that took care of me for those 4 years.

//But I'm confused. I thought you were AGAINST welfare--StrongAxe

Because you refuse to listen to what I am saying and HEARING what you THINK I am saying.

Go back and re read my post.

I kept telling you WE HAVE WELFARE and all those stories you spoke of above is COVERED!

I am AGAINST OBAMACARE.

I know first hand of the many people who LOST their healthcare because of OBAMACARE.

No tears for them, Strongaxe?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/23/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Beggars were the exception. They were either blind or lame.

Many exceptions are not so obvious. For example, people with anxiety disorders who can work, but not consistently, so they eventually get fired from every job they take, and with that record, it's harder and harder to get work. Or mothers with children, who can't afford day care. They are left with the choices of not working, or of working and having CPS take their children on grounds of abandonment.

She gave me a FREE college education/ 2 meals a day/gas to college/ and a little money each quarter JUST IN CASE they FORGOT something. It's covered!

Congratulations! But I'm confused. I thought you were AGAINST welfare?
---StrongAxe on 8/23/16


Climbing the social ladder does not mean to knock people off the ladder just because they are AHEAD of you!

//someone CANNOT work---StrongAxe

Said that: Beggars were the exception. They were either blind or lame. Either way people had to give them money directly---Nicole_Lacey8/21/16

What part of the Welfare system you don't understand?

It includes food stamps, housing, lights, gas, water, day care, money for other items and a phone.

Strongaxe, this GREAT Country took care of me.

1990-1994 I was Black/Hispanic/Woman and poor, She gave me a FREE college education/ 2 meals a day/gas to college/ and a little money each quarter JUST IN CASE they FORGOT something.

It's covered!
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/22/16




Nicole_Lacey:

Most people at the bottom of the social ladder, who can't afford enough food, also can't afford day care, cars, etc. Our society is much more spread out than things were 2000 years ago. Do you walk to the grocery store? Would you be capable of walking?

I know of one charitable food distribution center nearby, and it's a 5+ mile walk round trip. It would be exhausting to walk that in 100+ degree weather, especially carrying a full load of groceries one way. Even harder or a mother with several young children, who couldn't afford day care. Hard to carry groceries while kids are running loose.

Paul said "If someone WILL not work, he should not eat". He did not say "if someone CANNOT work".
---StrongAxe on 8/22/16


I asked 'Why don't you all FORCE Life insurance

It's called WELFARE including Food Stemps and they are covered.

//Jesus's command that we care for widows and orphans?---StrongAxe

It's voluntary not FORCED!

Jesus NEVER commanded the Government to feed people.

Why didn't He tell the Temple to feed the people?

God's only command was not to take all the crops during harvest time. Leave some of the crops for the poor.

Note He didn't say how much to leave, or to deliver the food to the widows and orphans.

They had to come get it themselves. Work

Everyone has to work.

Beggars were the exception.
They were either blind or lame. Either way people had to give them money directly.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/21/16


Strongaxe, so now that you have health insurance the HECK with the those people and their CHILDREN who loss their health insurance?

The numbers shows MORE people without health insurance after Obamacare.

Your numbers cites only those who didn't have insurance prior to Obamacare, but do now.

Not counting before and after WITHOUT health insurance

In the same manner they counts unemployment.

They use to count EVERY working body who WASN'T working.

Now they ONLY count those looking for work.
They don't add those who quit looking.
The true numbers are 14%.

But of course liberals love to cheat with numbers.
(i.e Clinton Charity Foundation which ONLY 5% actually goes to charity.)
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/21/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: According to your rationale, if Johnny dies without life insurance.
Leaves 7 kids, We ALL have to pay for those kids.


Why do you object to that. Would you rather that orphans starve and die? What about Jesus's command that we care for widows and orphans?

They are the TRUE VICTIMS of Obamacare!

More people are insured now than have ever been insured in the history of the nation. So if you count just numbers, if some lost their insurance and others gained it, many more people gained than people who lost. This is the whole point of insurance - some people lose, others gain, but the overall quality of life is improved.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/16


An option for car insurance to cover your car if the other doesn't have insurance. Take it

What's next, forcing LIFE insurance?

According to your rationale, if Johnny dies without life insurance.
Leaves 7 kids, We ALL have to pay for those kids.

BTW, it happens and we do pay for the kids in America Called Welfare.

Meaning the care for others.
They are covered.

//ALLOWING people to opt out of insurance only hurts their victims.---StrongAxe

Health has risen 4 folds causing those WITH insurance to drop their health insurance.
Leaving them without insurance and Now HAVE TO pay a FINE for not having said insurance.
Hurts them and their families.

They are the TRUE VICTIMS of Obamacare!
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/20/16


Nicole_Lacey:

If one of those people is seriously ill and goes to a hospital, the hospital is OBLIGATED to care for them and we ALL pay. It's the same with people who decline car insurance. If they hit someone, the victim pays. This is why most states have mandatory car insurance, and we now have mandatory health insurance.

Chases are caused by criminals not wanting to be accountable for crimes - NOT lack of insurance. Criminals don't HAVE to flee. When they do, the consequences are on THEM. ALLOWING people to opt out of insurance only hurts their victims.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/16


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You CHOSE to buy a house. If you rent, no Taxes.

//You DO own a body..health insurance for//

Some don't want to see a doctor or go to hospitals. Against their religion, or don't trust.

//Some people don't have car insurance, because they can't afford it,//

Esp. since they have to pay car insurance. Gov involvement, LEADS to high speed chase, LEADS to more car accidents/death and hospital bills.

//if they hit someone//

What? Hit someone with their bodies?

//ALL drivers to have insurance..because it's cheaper for everyone---StrongAxe

Not for the those who LOST their LIVES from a high speed chase because the person didn't have insurance he couldn't afford thus getting a ticket HE CAN'T AFFORD!
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/19/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: If I don't own a car, WHY would I pay Geico for insurance?

I don't have children, yet pay school taxes. You DO own a body, which is what health insurance is for.

Some people don't have car insurance, because they can't afford it, or they don't care - but that's little comfort if they hit someone. Many states mandate "no-fault insurance", requiring ALL drivers to have insurance whether they want it or not, because it's cheaper for everyone in the long run.

Health insurance is similar. If you don't have health insurance, and you're dying, a hospital CANNOT refuse you care. SOMEBODY has to pay for that. Mandated health insurance deals with that, for the same reasons as above.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/16


If I don't own a car, WHY would I pay Geico for insurance?

I choose to walk. Why do I have to pay for your car insurance because you are TOO LAZY TO WALK?

If you wish to drive, then BUY CAR INSURANCE!

When I am too old to walk, I will buy both the car and car insurance.

Not you, but for example: If you choose to smoke that's okay, but don't ask me for money because you have lung cancer 20 years later.

I am fat and it isn't anyone's else reponsibility to pay my blood pressure pills.

If I choose not have children, why do you have to pay for my birth control.
Everyone knows HOW NOT to have children?

Noooo, I have RIGHTS to certain pleasures, and you have to pay for them!

REALLY?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/19/16


Nicole_Lacey:

This whole discussion is going WAY off the original topic of 501(c) 3 status.

You wrote: YES repeal the Taxes back to the ORIGINAL intent
Not debt because it was imposed to bring down this Country.


You are welcome to try, and to vote in representatives to do that. Good luck with that.

I will trust my USA brothers and sisters to care for each other.

How many church bake sales do you think it would take to pay for the health care of someone with (say) cancer, that could go into 6 and 7 digits?

If it's good enough for God, why not us?

Because Congress does not have the constitutional power to perform miracles.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/16


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The Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, gives Congress the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.

Article I, Section 9, the original document made clear that no Capitation, or other direct Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census of Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.


How do you think we made a society from coast to coast before 1913?

YES repeal the Taxes back to the ORIGINAL intent
Not debt because it was imposed to bring down this Country.

I will trust my USA brothers and sisters to care for each other.
TRUST, not FORCE!
If it's good enough for God, why not us?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/19/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: the American Founders DID NOT have Taxes.

The Constitution expressly grants Congress the power to raise taxes.

It was a Liberal Progressive Racist President in 1913 Wilson who tricked the American people into making taxes permanent.

If he suggested it, it was the congress at the time that passed it.

The Taxes cease until Racist Wilson became President.

The early U.S. was an agrarian society. They didn't need freeways and air traffic control and the like. We do. Feel free to vote for candidates to repeal taxes, and see how well the country goes (e.g. Bush turned Clinton's trillion+ surplus into a trillion+ debt by lowering taxes).
---StrongAxe on 8/19/16


Strongaxe, you do know that the American Founders DID NOT have Taxes.

It was a Liberal Progressive Racist President in 1913 Wilson who tricked the American people into making taxes permanent.

Wartime or without.

Before you think of Abraham, I need to let you know it was introduces for a fixed time limit and for a good reason. War.

The Taxes cease until Racist Wilson became President.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/18/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Perhaps you miss the connection between "conservative" and "Right".

Healthy 20 years olds paying taxes FOR NOTHING!

That is how insurance works - most people that pay in don't collect, to subside those few who NEED it.

Elsewhere, you said that without Obamacare we have full choices. So what? If I say you can have a Porche, Ferrari, or Maserati, it's useless if you can't even afford a Yugo. Under Obamacare, more Americans have health insurance than at any time in history. Having a chance to pick from a few choices is better than no chance to pick from many choices. Republicans want to tear it down, but have never yet offered a plausible alternative.
---StrongAxe on 8/18/16


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//I used reductio ad absurdum to show your point was illogical.---StrongAxe

I LOVE IT. Latin is great isn't it.

Wrong again. White supremacists are not conservatives. They are extreme Rightist who only agree with people base on skin color

//and the company that sells the products to you also pays taxes on the profits. You pay taxes THREE TIMES, yet you don't seem upset about that.//

Because I agreed to pay a CERTAIN amount in exchange for their products. (Supply and Demand)
What they pay has nothing to do with me.

That's why Obamacare is illegal.
Healthy 20 years olds paying taxes FOR NOTHING!
But for merely breathing on US soil.

That's reductio ad absurdum on the Tax code
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/18/16


Nicole_Lacey:

I said NO taxes from my CHURCH.

Why should churches be special, unlike all other organizations? When you buy products, you pay income tax on your wages, then sales tax on the transaction, and the company that sells the products to you also pays taxes on the profits. You pay taxes THREE TIMES, yet you don't seem upset about that.

You Liberals are all alike.

No, all liberals aren't, and all conservatives aren't either. Most evangelical Christians are conservative, and so are white supremacists, yet they are very unlike each other.

You distorted my argument by saying all or none.

I used reductio ad absurdum to show your point was illogical.
---StrongAxe on 8/18/16


//Why not? Everybody who gives anyone money for any reason pays the government its cut - employers paying wages, consumers buying goods and services, and gift and inheritance taxes.//

Who said I didn't want to pay any taxes?
I said NO taxes from my CHURCH.
As you listed above, I AM PAYING MY FAIR SHARE.

..avoid having a government at all--StrongAxe

You Liberals are all alike.

You distorted my argument by saying all or none.

You didn't go to school in the United States as a child did you?

The Freedom set up by our Founders is VERY HARD WORK.
Personal responsibility.
Including helping one's neighbor, but by forced help.

The World isn't use to being INDEPENDENT as the USA.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/17/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Why not? Everybody who gives anyone money for any reason pays the government its cut - employers paying wages, consumers buying goods and services, and gift and inheritance taxes. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Paying taxes is the cost of doing business, and the only way to avoid that is to avoid having a government at all (See how you would enjoy living in a totally anarchist society).

Rome used taxes to fund pagan temples, persecute Christians, and support armies to conquer and enslave other nation, yet Jesus STILL said "Render unto Caesar" nonetheless. We don't get to decide how the government spends taxes (unless the government gives us that option, e.g. the vote).
---StrongAxe on 8/17/16


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Would your
denominational "church" give up its 501(c)3 non-profit status?

NO!

I am not giving MY MONEY to my Church for my Church to hand part of it to the Government.
Who (Government) plan to spend the money testing shrimps on treadmill.
Or developing a menu for people living on Mars.

BTW, that means I am paying TAXES TWICE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/10/16


Mike said, " let me repeat what I said Bush gave money to Pat Robertson 0700 club. why don't you google it."

Mike, I did just that! There are no results that show President Bush (either one) giving Pat Robertson or the 700 Club money out of any government fund.
---Monk_Brendan on 8/10/16


Mike said, " let me repeat what I said Bush gave money to Pat Robertson 0700 club. why don't you google it."

Mike, let me ask a few questions to clarify your answer.

Which Bush? George H.W.? George W.?

Did he give it to them from some special earmarked fund of the government or did he give personally? Let's face it, Mike, even as President, I would still be allowed to give from my own personal funds to the 700 Club, or Buddhists for Life, or any other such 501(c)3 organization, without anyone pointing a finger.

So, what special earmarked fund did he use?
---Monk_Brendan on 8/9/16


What if the feds gave money to Pat Robertson's 700 club? As I pointed out to you, it's NOT A CHURCH--or did you think it was in your ignorance?
---Cluny on 8/9/16


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mike:

You wrote: let me repeat what I said Bush gave money to Pat Robertson 0700 club. why don't you google it.

Can you be more specific? I googled what you said, and didn't find any articles on point. Please tell us EXACTLY what google search you did, and perhaps what site the article is on (e.g. cnn, fox, newsweek, etc.)

It is ILLEGAL for the government to give money to ANY organization for a religious purpose, but it is fine for a SECULAR purpose (e.g. to run soup kitchens).
---StrongAxe on 8/6/16


let me repeat what I said Bush gave money to Pat Robertson 0700 club. why don't you google it.
---mike on 8/5/16


mike:

Let me repeat what I said in my previous message:
"Faith based initiatives" are secular functions performed by religious organizations.

That is, when religious organizations perform exactly the same kind of social activities that secular charities or government agencies perform. These include things like homeless shelters, soup kitchens, crisis pregnancy centers, free clinics, etc. These are social services and NOT religious functions.

A church could use use such funds to fund a soup kitchen, but NOT a Sunday school. Using such funds for religious purposes would not only violate the law, but ALSO violate the constitution.
---StrongAxe on 8/4/16


It would be nice if people would check their facts before posting on these blogs. Having a 501(c)3 does not mean that you take money from the government.
---KarenD on 8/4/16


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\\0700 club received money from worst pres. bush.\\

The 700 Club is not a church, mike.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/4/16


Faith for Faith said, "For years many churches have had the tax-exempt 501(c)3 in order to receive money from the Federal government EVEN THOUGH that means they have to preach as the government tells them. These churches are part of man's money system (666)."

Faith, 501(c)3 is a tax exemption. It means that if a taxpayer gives a donation to his church, he can deduct that amount from his 1040 form. It is not a gift to the church, it is a gift for the taxpayer.
---Monk_Brendan on 8/4/16


strongaxe
then why did pat Robertson & 0700 club received money from bush. google it.
---mike on 8/4/16


faith based initiative are secular? here is an article - worstpres bush announced plans for faith based initiatives 2002 - 70% of americans prefer that gov't agencies provide the majority of aid to the needy & poor, the same number supported the right of church organization to apply for federal funding for their social programs.
---mike on 8/4/16


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mike:

You wrote: have you heard of FAITH BASED initiative? 0700 club received money from worst pres. bush.

"Faith based initiatives" are secular functions performed by religious organizations. The government is forbidden by the First Amendment from promting or subsidizing religious functions, but for secular functions like education, soup kitchens, etc. they can subsidize those particular functions, by anyone who does them, regardless of whether those organizations are religious or not.
---StrongAxe on 8/3/16


cluny

have you heard of FAITH BASED initiative? 0700 club received money from worst pres. bush. Pat Robertson criticized bush regarding the faith based money but when the white house paid the greedy preacher, pat suddenly changed his attitude.
---mike on 8/3/16


faithforfaith:

1) 501(c)3 are tax-exempt. They do NOT "receive money" from government.
2) They do NOT "preach as the government tells them". They are prohibited from influencing POLITICAL process (e.g. some mix religion+politics "it is a sin not to vote for Trump").
3) 666 is the number of the BEAST. NOBODY can buy nor sell without the MARK. Do you have a tattoo on your forehead? Do people in England starve without using U.S. currency? If not, it CANNOT be the system of the beast.

Background checks to keep guns away from criminals is NOT "gun confiscation" - NRA hysteria.

Yet so many claim to speak authoritatively on Jesus's behalf, putting words into his mouth.
---StrongAxe on 8/3/16


\\For years many churches have had the tax-exempt 501(c)3 in order to receive money from the Federal government EVEN THOUGH that means they have to preach as the government tells them. \\

Please give the name of ONE CHURCH in the USA that has received money from the Federal Government.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/3/16


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For years many churches have had the tax-exempt 501(c)3 in order to receive money from the Federal government EVEN THOUGH that means they have to preach as the government tells them. These churches are part of man's money system (666).

When the govt. wants you to obey them without question (gun confiscation and such), they will have the pastors preach/stress Romans 13 (just wait).

GOD (not MAN, not "BIBLE") is the final and ONLY authority for those who love/worship Him (NO EXCEPTIONS).

Jesus said....
ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth has been given to ME.
---faithforfaith on 8/2/16


If a church's operation, mission, and doctrines are within the 501(c)3 guidelines, why not partake?
If a church changes its way of doing things to meet the guidelines, we have compromise.
Giving from God can take on many forms, but compromise shows the heart.
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
---micha9344 on 8/2/16


We don't have that. How about your own worldly denominational 'church' of Steveng?
---Cluny on 8/2/16


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