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Deity Of The Holy Spirit

In my experience, many people accept The Father and The Son as "God.", but they totally reject the "Deity of the Holy Spirit."

What Biblical Support in context is there for rejecting the "Deity of the Holy Spirit?"

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 ---john9346 on 8/24/16
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//"He." and "Him."... the Holy Spirit//- John9346.

1. John9346 assessment is inaccurate.

For example, the Rotherham Bible at Jo.14:16,17 says: 'I will request the Father, and Another Advocate [parakletos] will he give unto you, that he may be with you age-abidingly,-the Spirit [pneuma] of truth,which the world cannot receive, because it beholdeth it not nor getteth to know it.'

Notice that the pronoun is masculine ('he') when the antecedent is the masculine noun 'parakletos' but neuter ('it') when the antecedent is the neuter noun 'pneuma'.

John9346 ignores this fact (or simply doesn't understand it) and disregards basic rules of Greek grammar.

(Cont...)
---David8318 on 9/12/16


//"He." and "Him."... the Holy Spirit//- John9346.

(Cont...)

2. In some Bible translations, neuter pronouns are replaced with masculine pronouns. The New American Bible on John 14:17 admits: "The Greek word for 'Spirit' is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English ('he,' 'his,'), most Greek manuscripts use 'it.'"

John9346 will point to personal pronouns when it supports his view but ignores them when they do not. A careful examination of passages used by John9346, however, reveal the apostle John's use of pronouns, both neuter and masculine, is a matter of grammar and therefore does not support John9346 claim that the spirit is deified or 'God'.
---David8318 on 9/11/16


david8318 states, "In John 16:7-13, 'ekeinos' does not refer to 'the spirit'"

Sir, have you not read what the Lord Jesus said??

Remember this is an introduction that is indeed talking about the Holy Spirit.

listen:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

See, Jn 16:8-9
---john9346 on 9/11/16


david8318 ask, "So was apostle John expressing a theological belief when employing personal pronouns or was he simply employing rules of Greek grammar?"

Sir, what was the NT written in Greek, French, or English??
---john9346 on 9/11/16


The Jews never accepted THE SPIRIT.

This verse shows that we are supposed to willingly become SONS (and brothers of the FIRSTBORN).

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren (RSV)
There are many IMPORTANT verses of scripture that need to discovered and emphasized for todays generation of worshippers. The traditional teachings taught from the pulpit have for centuries hidden the truth about COMPLETE salvation (eternal life from ETERNAL God). Hebrews 9:14 says that the ETERNAL Spirit purifies the CONSCIENCE (on the cross, Jesus only purified the FLESH).
Heb 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely (KJV)
---faithforfaith on 9/10/16




RichardC wrote: "1 John 5:7 - For there are Three that bear record in heaven , The Father, The Word and The Holy Ghost : These three are one.

( Refer John 1:14 )"

Who spoke from heaven when Jesus was baptised?

While Jesus says he cannot do anything without the Father working through him, who did the actual healing? (Jesus performed the miracles, but the Father did the healing)

If the three are one and the same, why is it that God the Father knows the return of Jesus and Jesus himself does not?
---Steveng on 9/10/16


//the apostle John used, "He." and "Him." when referring and introducing the Holy Spirit// John9346.

So was apostle John expressing a theological belief when employing personal pronouns or was he simply employing rules of Greek grammar?

For example, does John9346 really believe the French view "le livre" [the book- masculine in French] as a 'He' or 'Him'? Or are the French simply employing rules of French grammar?

John9346 is unaware that 'ekeinos' is a demonstrative pronoun and is rendered, 'that, that one there'. Such a pronoun carries no information with it whatsoever. Its sole function is to point back to that which it is referring to- ie. the 'paraclete'- Jo.16:7.
---David8318 on 9/10/16


Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1Co 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
-Don't these passages refer to Jesus Christ as the One Lord?
---micha9344 on 9/10/16


//John used... "He." "Him." he used the word "Ekeinos."// John9346.

Ekeinos is a demonstrative pronoun (can be 'he' or 'it' according to the gender of the antecedent noun).

In John 16:7-13, 'ekeinos' does not refer to 'the spirit' [neuter, 'pneuma'] but refers back to the antecedent noun 'paracletos' (or 'helper'- Jo.16:7, a masculine noun).

'Paracletos' (16:7) is what 'ekeinos' (16:13) is pointing back to. So the pronoun 'auton' ['he'] is used in 16:7 because its antecedent noun ('paracletos') is masculine. It automatically takes on the gender of such a noun, not because it's a person (silly), but simply because of Greek grammar... nothing more!
---David8318 on 9/9/16


//If the Spirit is not the Lord, then Who is?//- micha9344

Jehovah is the Lord God Almighty [YHWH. "Yahweh", Deut.6:13].

"Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God, and him shalt thou serve, and shalt swear by his name"- Deuteronomy 6:13 (ASV).

Quoting Deut.6:13 [known as the shema], Jesus Christ said "For it is written: 'It is Jehovah [YHWH] your God you must worship...'

"Whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth"- Psalm 83:18, King James.

Thank you micha for giving me the platform to allay your doubts as to who the Sovereign Lord God is.
---David8318 on 9/9/16




The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed see Matthew 12:31-32.

You cant blaspheme energy/inspiration/a-force, only a person.
---john9346 on 9/8/16


The phrase "Of the Lord." and "Of God." when speaking of the Holy Spirit means that the Holy Spirit is one of essence with the Father and the Son.

Like Micha's Question so perfectly ask, "If the Spirit is not the Lord, then Who is?"
---john9346 on 9/8/16


The Holy Spirit is a person:

He speaks Acts 8:29, 21:11, 1 Tim 4:1.

He can hear John 16:13.

He loves Romans 15:30,

He teaches John 14:26,

He intercedes Romans 8:26-27,

He can be grieved Ephesians 4:30.

He can be lied to Acts 5:3-4.
---john9346 on 9/8/16


If the Spirit is not the Lord, then Who is?
---micha9344 on 9/7/16


david 8318 states, "Equality with what? With God? John9346 cannot be serious!? Examining John9346 understanding of Acts 5:9 is alarming."

David, Peter is still referring to the "Holy Spirit." in vs 9 just as in vs 3-4.

Sir, I'd invite you to read 1-9.
---john9346 on 9/7/16


joseph said, "There lies my objection, nothing that I know of in scripture suggest that the Holy Spirit is to be glorified or worshipped,"

2 Corinthians 13:14, 1 Peter 1:2, Titus 3:4-6, etc.
---john9346 on 9/7/16


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david8318 states following:

"Acts 5:9 says [in part], "How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord?"

David who is Peter speaking of in this vs 9?

""Spirit" in Greek is pneuma and is always neuter in gender (neither 'he' or 'she')

It is neuter until a direct object is added like, "The Spirit of the Lord." then it is no longer neuter.

Also, the apostle John used, "He." and "Him." when referring and introducing the Holy Spirit taught to him by the Lord Jesus Christ...
---john9346 on 9/7/16


david8318

First, as we have all seen from the Scriptures, "The Holy Spirit." is a person.

Next David, here is how Peter answers your doubt.

3 "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not [b]under your control? Why is it that you have [c]conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Note, "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the "Holy Spirit."

Note, "You have not lied to men but to "God."
---john9346 on 9/7/16


samuelBB7 states, "I find no reason to reject the Deity of the Holy Spirit. But there is little proof He is deity."

Sir, have you not read the following:

Gen 1:1-2, Matt 3:16-17, 28:18-19, Acts 5:3-4, and 2 Cor 3:17
---john9346 on 9/7/16


'vs 9 clarifies the Holy Spirit's Equality'- John9346.

Equality with what? With God? John9346 cannot be serious!? Examining John9346 understanding of Acts 5:9 is alarming.

Acts 5:9 says [in part], "How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord?" (NIV)

"Spirit" in Greek is pneuma and is always neuter in gender (neither 'he' or 'she'). So, listen up everyone, trinitarians believe God is equal to an "it"!

Seriously? Do trinitarians equate the Almighty God with an "it", a "thing"? This is what John9346 believes and wants us all to believe. The reality is quite the opposite. The 'spirit' ['pneuma'- neuter] is not equal to the Almighty God.
---David8318 on 9/7/16


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david8318,

Sir, first, I am the one who made the statement to you when I said, "You have to read vs 3-4 to understand vs 9."

Before Peter spoke in vs 9 he spoke in vs 3-4.

vs 9 doesn't contradict vs 3-4 because vs 9 clarifies the Holy Spirit's Equality.

If the Holy Spirit is "Inspiration/energy/a-force.", then lying wouldn't be an issue, you cant lie to energy like say water, gravity, or the wind.
---john9346 on 9/6/16


I find no reason to reject the Deity of the Holy Spirit. But there is little proof He is deity.

People oppose the Trinity since it is difficult. But it is true.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/6/16


"You have to read vs 3-4 to understand vs 9."- John9346.

I was the first to highlight Acts 5:9 in the discussion which John9346 omits for obvious reasons because verse 9 breaks apart his un-biblical 4th Century trinitarian 'God the holy ghost' propaganda.

I never said verses 3-4 contradict verse 9. What I said was John9346 understanding of verses 3-4 contradict what Peter states at verse 9, that the Spirit is "of the Lord". Being 'of the Lord' contradicts John9346 belief that the spirit 'is the Lord'- which clearly it is not. John9346 belief is thus in complete error and his argument without any scriptural basis of truth.
---David8318 on 9/6/16


What david and Joseph must answer for everyone here based on the "Scriptures." is the "Holy Spirit."when introduced by the Lord Jesus have qualities that only a person can possess not energy/inspiration/a-force.
---john9346 on 9/6/16


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1 John 5:7 - For there are Three that bear record in heaven , The Father, The Word and The Holy Ghost : These three are one.

( Refer John 1:14 )
---RichardC on 9/5/16


david8318 states, "Referring to the holy spirit as 'he' or 'him' is incorrect, even in Greek. The Greek word 'pneuma', [spirit], is a neuter word."

Actually, when the apostle John used the pronouns, "He." "Him." he used the word "Ekeinos."

There are other words John could have used to reference energy/inspiration/a-force, but he didn't choose to do so, he chose "Ekeinos."
---john9346 on 9/4/16


david8318 states, "Agreed, and this is where John9346 argument falls apart."

Sir, first, I am the one who made the statement to you when I said, "You have to read vs 3-4 to understand vs 9."

Before Peter spoke in vs 9 he spoke in vs 3-4.

vs 9 doesn't contradict vs 3-4 because vs 9 clarifies the Holy Spirit's Equality.

If the Holy Spirit is "Inspiration/energy/a-force.", then lying wouldn't be an issue, you cant lie to energy like say water, gravity, or the wind.
---john9346 on 9/4/16


Referring to the holy spirit as 'he' or 'him' is incorrect, even in Greek. The Greek word 'pneuma', [spirit], is a neuter word.

"Parakletos" [comforter- Jo.14:26] is masculine in Greek, and masculine personal pronouns are grammatically correct in Greek. But to translate into English as 'he', 'him', etc., is grammatically incorrect.

For example, in French the word 'livre' [book], is masculine and is referred to by a pronoun equivalent to the English 'he'. But you would never translate a particular French sentence into English as 'Im looking for my book so I can read him'.

In the same way, to suppose on this basis that the holy spirit is a person to be referred to as 'he' or 'him' is incorrect.
---David8318 on 9/4/16


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Joseph said, "If that is clear to you John, than far be it from me to try in convince you otherwise."

Actually, it is not a matter of how I see it nor how you see it.

The only thing that matters here is what the Lord Jesus is writing here in Jn 14, 15, 16.

If Jesus wanted us to believe that "The Holy Spirit." is "Inspiration/energy/a-force.", then he would not have used "He." "Him." when referencing the "Holy Spirit."

We all must allow the "Holy Scripture." to interpret themselves insteadof imposing our ideas, opinions, etc. on the "Holy Scriptures."

Seekers of the truth make note.
---john9346 on 9/4/16


"Jesus and the Father are not the Holy Spirit." Ok
"Note, 3 "Separate Persons." John the apostle clearly makes a distinction in this verse.---john9346

If that is clear to you John, than far be it from me to try in convince you otherwise. A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still, and I am not one to argue what another person believes, that would be an exersise in futility. Although I do attempt to be clear as concerning my views, contrary to what you apparently believe, I have no desire to be argumentative, or need to be defensive. I am comfortable in my position, and respectful of yours. So with that statement, I'm done:o) Be blessed.
---joseph on 9/2/16


Our Apostle Paul says,

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, our Heavenly Father is this personal with each of us who are His children > He shares His very own love with each of us, "in our hearts". This is Heaven's own love, I understand.

And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of this love. I offer > only God can be the Spirit of His own love (c:

And "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8 & 16). Doesn't love give the best? God gives us His own self, not some lesser second-best being and blessing. The Holy Spirit is God giving His own best of everything to us ! ! ! (c:
---Bill on 9/2/16


joseph states, "John, Jesus is the only person being referenced in those passages, it is His Spirit or essence that He is referring to in verse 17, as He said in 18,

Sir, wouldn't you agree that we must understand vs 16 before vs 17-20?

vs 16 is the introduction of the "Holy Spirit."

John 14:16, "16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever,.'

Note, "I." Jesus speaking will pray the Father.

Note, And "He." the Father will give you "Another Comforter." not the same as himself Jesus nor the Father.

Note, "that "He." the Holy Spirit may abide with you for ever,.
---john9346 on 9/2/16


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Joseph,

The very question you are using in your objection to the "Personality of the Holy Spirit."

was asked in vs 22, "22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
---john9346 on 9/2/16


Here is how the Lord Jesus responded, "26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Note, how Jesus responds, "The Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit,"

Note, "whom the Father will send in my name,"

Note, "He." shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,"

Note, "whatsoever I have said unto you."

Jesus and the Father are not the Holy Spirit.
---john9346 on 9/2/16


'You have to read vs 3-4 to understand vs 9'- John9346.

Agreed, and this is where John9346 argument falls apart. John9346 wants us to believe that Ananias lied to both 'God the Spirit' and 'God the Father'. This is trinitarian polytheism which John9346 has been duped into.

John9346 understanding of Acts 5:3-4 contradicts Peter's statement in verse 9, which clearly shows that far from being 'God', the spirit is "of the Lord". Not that the spirt is the Lord. John9346 wants verse 9 to read 'the Spirit is the Lord'. But it doesn't.

John9346 must first understand Acts 5:9 in context. The holy spirit is not 'God'. It is of God and sent by God- Jo.14:26.
---David8318 on 9/2/16


John, Jesus is the only person being referenced in those passages, it is His Spirit or essence that He is referring to in verse 17, as He said in 18, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." He goes on to say in verses 19-20, (paraphrasing here:o), that although the 'world' (as those dependent upon the senses) would not perceive Him again, His disciples would. For at that time, by the inspired knowledge and awareness He sends, His disciples would know that He is in the Father, that we are in Him, and He is in us. It is His life that is being shared in the endowment. However, Like I said it takes discernment, for later in the same chapter He identifies the comforter as the Holy Spirit.
---joseph on 9/1/16


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John 14:16, "16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever,.'

Note, "I." Jesus speaking will pray the Father.

Note, And "He." the Father will give you "Another Comforter." not the same as himself Jesus nor the Father.

Note, "that "He." the Holy Spirit may abide with you for ever,.

Note, 3 "Separate Persons." John the apostle clearly makes a distinction in this verse.
---john9346 on 9/1/16


Joseph states, "The Spirit of truth is the spirit of the Son, who is the Truth."

But not according to the Lord Jesus for he states, "17 Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

Jesus clearly is talking about another "Person." and not "Himself."

Joseph said, "You're obviously have trouble discerning between essence and inspiration."

Tell us in vs 16-20 where is Jesus making this distinction that the Holy Spirit is "Inspiration." and not a "Person."
---john9346 on 9/1/16


david8318 states, "Again notice Acts 5:3-4 does not call the holy spirit 'God'."

Lets look again at what Peter said,"
3 "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not [b]under your control? Why is it that you have [c]conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Note, "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the "Holy Spirit."

Note, "You have not lied to men but to "God."

David note, You have to read vs 3-4 to understand vs 9.
---john9346 on 9/1/16


"Sir, you are contradicting because prior you said the following:
"I don't read any of those verses referring to the Holy Spirit as "a deity", or a separate "person"


No sir, I am not. I know exactly what I said, and there is no contradiction. You are simply not understanding what is being said.

"Separate person from the Father and the Son Jn 14:16 No John.

The Spirit of truth is the spirit of the Son, who is the Truth. Right below the verses you quoted is John 14:18, consider it, along with 19 & 20. You're obviously have trouble discerning between essence and inspiration. But than, to each his reach, and if you can not grasp, it is not yours to have.
---joseph on 9/1/16


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Well, lets start with Acts 5: 3-4- John 9346.

Again notice Acts 5:3-4 does not call the holy spirit 'God'.

Because the holy spirit and God are mentioned in the same verse and that they are said to be lied to, does this mean they are both 'God'? John9346 believes Annanias and Saphira lied to both 'God the spirit' and 'God the Father'! This is clearly trinitarian polytheism.

The reality is as Peter explains at Acts 5:9, 'How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord' (NIV).

They didn't lie to both 'God the spirit' and to 'God'. This is a polytheist understanding of Acts 5:3-4. Because the spirit is 'of the Lord', and sent by God (Jo.14:26), lying to the spirit is tantamount to lying to God.
---David8318 on 9/1/16


Joseph ask, "Where in scripture is the Holy Spirit referred to as "a deity"?"

Gen 1:1-2, 26, 3:22, 11:7,

Isa 48:16

Acts 5:3-4

2 Cor 3:17

---john9346 on 9/1/16


david8318 states, "Let it be noted that none of these verses state the man-made trinitarian creed 'God the holy spirit'. To."

Well, lets start with Acts 5: 3-4:

3 "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not [b]under your control? Why is it that you have [c]conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
---john9346 on 9/1/16


joseph states, "I have yet to see the terms "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit" in any version of the Bible, Old testament or New. I would think that If the trinity was a biblically established doctrine, that those terms would be used at least once.

Sir, you are contradicting because prior you said the following:

"I don't read any of those verses referring to the Holy Spirit as "a deity", or a separate "person"

This statement shows everyone here that you do know of these verses you just refuse to accept them.
---john9346 on 9/1/16


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Joseph states, "He can not be without His Spirit."

But the Lord Jesus said, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever," (Separate person from the Father and the Son Jn 14:16)

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
(Separate Person) Jn 16:13-15
---john9346 on 9/1/16


"There is only One Eternal, that is God But is not God without His Spirit, Word, Wisdom, and Life"---micha9344 on 8/31/16 True that.

Father is Spirit, His word is wisdom, and Life. He can not be without His Spirit. His Word has been made tangible to man in the person of Jesus, Jesus is the everlasting Father personified. Knowing the Spirit that He embodies as the one true God, is knowing the One sent, and is Life, everlasting. We know Him by His Spirit, and by Him receive His spirit of might, truth, wisdom, knowledge, counsel, and understanding. It is by Him, through the inspiration He provides, that we stand in awe of His Majesty.
---joseph on 8/31/16


There is only One Eternal, that is God.
But He is not God without His Spirit, Word, Wisdom, and Life.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word...
Hebrews 9:14 ...the eternal Spirit...
1Jo 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us,)
Isa 9:6 ...The mighty God, The everlasting Father...
Deu 33:27 The eternal God [is thy] refuge,
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever.
---micha9344 on 8/31/16


//Lets see what "Scripture. states// John9346.

Matt 28:18-19, Acts 5:3-4, 1 Cor 12:4-6, 11, 2 Cor 3:17.

Let it be noted that none of these verses state the man-made trinitarian creed 'God the holy spirit'. To conclude the holy spirit is deified or "equal" with God from these verses requires scriptural gymnastics or preconceived ideas of a trinity dogma.

Besides, as previously explained, John9346 notion that the holy spirit is 'God', is a relatively new dogma. Prior to the 4th Century AD, in the days of the Apostles and Christ and even before Christ, no one believed the holy spirit was 'God'.

Deifying the holy spirit came long after the Bible was written.
---David8318 on 8/31/16


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\\The deity of the holy spirit is a man made dogma dreamed up in the 4th Century.\\

Spoken like a true Pnevmatomach!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/31/16


The terms "God the Father" and "Son of God" are used repeatedly throughout the New Testament, however I have yet to see the terms "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit" in any version of the Bible, Old testament or New. I would think that If the trinity was a biblically established doctrine, that those terms would be used at least once. Trinity as three persons in one is simply a religious inference, applied by those who promote the doctrine.
---joseph on 8/31/16


david8318 states, "The Bible never speaks of 'God the holy spirit'. It is not a Bible teaching. The deity of the holy spirit is a man made dogma dreamed up in the 4th Century.

Well Lets see what "Scripture. states.

Matt 28:18-19

Acts 5:3-4

1 ?Cor 12:4-6, 11

2 Cor 3:17
---john9346 on 8/31/16


Father placed upon and within Jesus His fullness, making Him the embodied fullness of Deity. Yet the Father in His fullness can not be contained, everything that exist is contained and sustained by Him via His Spirit, His essence, His being. In Him we live, move, and have our being. Yes, the one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in all. He Shares a knowledge and awareness of Himself by His Word, as His Divine, disclosed expression of Himself. It is through His disclosure that He shares His insight via His Holy Spirit, His direct inspiration set apart for our enlightenment as conveyer of His spirit of truth, wisdom, knowledge, understanding, counsel, might, and fear of the Lord.
---joseph on 8/30/16


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1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us THERE IS BUT ONE GOD.

john 20:22 and when He had said this He breathed into them & said 'receive the HOLY SPIRIT'
---mike on 8/30/16


John we have had no dialog. A dialog is an exchange of ideas, views or opinions. You have simply repeated the same questions, questions that I have answered to the best of my ability. Stating that the answers will not change isn't argumentative, it's just fact, and personally I do not know how you received it as such, perhaps you were expecting an argument. Personally i don't argue, I simply state my views, to be rejected or accepted, and I am okay with either way. I have refused to answer nothing, It is apparent that the answers given, in your view, doesn't suffice. However, if it don't fit, I will not attempt to force it. As for as my character, it speaks for itself to anyone who is truly listening to, or in this case reading my responses.
---joseph on 8/30/16


joseph said, "My answer remains the same, and will remain the same no matter how many times you ask it. Why not just share your thoughts concerning it?"

Sir, first, with all respect to you, my goal is to have a Substantive, mature, and honest dialog.

I am not interested in arguing with you as those reading here who won't to learn the truth on this topic will find it meaningless and a waist of time.

Just remember when you refuse to answer simple questions and become argumentative, it does show to all those reading this post who are seeking the truth your character

Again, with all respect to you, my goal is to have a Substantive, mature, and honest dialog.
---john9346 on 8/30/16


Joseph states, "I have answered this as well,"

Sir, you have not answered the quesstion you only stated to the readers the broad meaning and my question to you is how did John specifically use the word "Ekeinos."

Here is what you stated,
"Jesus used the word "ekeinos" which can be defined as he,she or it, The translators simply choose the transliteration he, probably due to the pressure of religious bias,"
---john9346 on 8/30/16


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'Deity of the Holy Spirit?'- John9346.

Let's be reminded that not until the 4th Century did Platonising early church "fathers" eventually deify the holy spirit making it part of the "Godhead" and official church dogma.

The Council of Nicea in 325AD saw these apostate church fathers adopt the idea that the Son was equal with God. But not the holy spirit.

It wasn't until some 60 years later, at the Council of Constantinople in 381AD that apostates finally triangulated the trinity by deifying the holy spirit.

The Bible never speaks of 'God the holy spirit'. It is not a Bible teaching. The deity of the holy spirit is a man made dogma dreamed up in the 4th Century.
---David8318 on 8/30/16


"1. I asked you are you familiar with the "Greek Word." "Kurios..."?
The focus question is the Word Kurios for Lord in Greek meaning how is Paul using this word?"


My answer remains the same, and will remain the same no matter how many times you ask it. Why not just share your thoughts concerning it?

2. You stated that the word, Ekinos. means he, she,[or] it. Can you tell us how is John using this word in Jn 14, 15, 16?

I have answered this as well, and why on 8/25/16. Obviously you believe otherwise, why?

"3. If the Holy Spirit is not a person, can you tell us would John have used, "Ekinos."" Why not?
---joseph on 8/30/16


Hi Joseph here again are the questions that have been asked of you.

Listen carefully before responding.


1. I asked you are you familiar with the "Greek Word." "Kurios." found in 2 Cor 3:17?
The focus question is the Word Kurios for Lord in Greek meaning how is Paul using this word?

2. You stated that the word, "Ekinos." means he, she, it. Can you tell us how is John using this word in Jn 14, 15, 16?

3. If the Holy Spirit is not a person, can you tell us would John have used, "Ekinos."
---john9346 on 8/29/16


John what questions are those? If you are referring to the question on 8/28, and I assume it was a question, you posted my answer above the question. I thought what I believed was clearly stated. Apparently not, so I'll put it this way, I believe the word "kyrios" references the Lord, (as the supreme controller), and as the verse states, He is that Spirit being referenced in the verse. For as the last Adam, He was made a quickening spirit. And as Jesus said "It is the spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, are spirit, and life." For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made [us] free from the law of sin and death.
---joseph on 8/29/16


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Joseph sir,

Will you answer the questions that have been asked of you?
---john9346 on 8/29/16


Thanks for dialogging. ---john9346 on 8/28/16" My pleasure
---joseph on 8/28/16


Joseph said, "I view the Spirit of the Lord as a reference to Father's essence rather than His anointing."

So, does this mean yes or no that you are familiar with the Greek Word, "Kurios." which means Lord Paul uses in 2 Cor 3:17 referring to the Holy Spirit.
---john9346 on 8/28/16


Joseph ask, "John I take it you are going to answer the question here."

Yes sir, Deut 6:4, Gen 1:1-2, 1:26, 3:22, 11:7-8, Isa 6:1-8, Matt 3:13-17, 28:19, Jn 14:16-17 and 16:13-15.

There are many more,however, I did want to answer your question as that any genuine question deserves a genuine answer/response.

Thanks for dialogging.

John
---john9346 on 8/28/16


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"Sir, lets start with the Biblical Definition of the trinity:--john9346"

"John. where is that definition found?---joseph on 4/8/16"

John I take it you are going to answer the question here.
---joseph on 8/27/16


Concerning the Spirit and the Son:
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever,
('abide' directly infers a living being.)
Concerning the Spirit and the Father:
Acts 5:3-4 ...why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost...thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Concerning the Three:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
-The Holy Spirit is either a personified "essence" or a person.
Acts 13:2 ...the Holy Ghost said...
Heb 3:7 ...as the Holy Ghost saith...
Eph 4:30 And grieve(offend, sorrow) not the holy Spirit of God...
---micha9344 on 8/27/16


"Joseph: Sir, Are you aware in 2 Cor 3:17: the word Lord, "Kurios." that Paul use in referencing the "Holy Spirit?"

I view the Spirit of the Lord as a reference to Father's essence rather than His anointing.

"Sir, what did John tell us that Jesus use to describe the "Holy Spirit?"
---john9346 on 8/25/16"


I don't understand the question, where in the gospel of John are you referring?
---joseph on 8/26/16


"Sir, lets start with the Biblical Definition of the trinity:"
John. where is that definition found?

---joseph on 4/8/16
---john9346 on 8/26/16


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Mark sir,

Thank you for this information.

I do know some versions do not come close to actually representing Hebrew and greek words.
---john9346 on 8/25/16


Joseph:

Sir, Are you aware in 2 Cor 3:17: the word Lord, "Kurios." that Paul use in referencing the "Holy Spirit?"

Joseph said, "Jesus used the word "ekeinos" which can be defined as he,she or it, The translators simply choose the transliteration he,"

Sir, what did John tell us that Jesus use to describe the "Holy Spirit?"
---john9346 on 8/25/16


This is opposite of what the blog question is asking for, but I just learned this and it blew me away.

Gen 3:8 "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden"

Looking at the Hebrew in this verse, Elohim (God), YHWH (LORD), and ruach (in the cool) are all present, all three persons in the Trinity.

The translators should have said that Elohim, Yahweh, are walking in the garden, in the Holy Spirit, but they did not. Why? The word translated "in the cool" is the same word translated in Gen 1:2 as the Spirit of God.

Perhaps their theology got in the way.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/25/16


john9346 on 8/25/16
I don't read any of those verses referring to the Holy Spirit as "a deity", or a separate "person" of deity.
The only verse that seems to suggest that possibility of the Father is Isa. 48:16 "the Lord GOD, and his Spirit has sent me", however, in my view, the verse can be better understood as the NIV translates it "LORD has sent me, endowed with his Spirit."
I view 2Cor 3:17 as referencing the Father based on this verses like "Psa 94:9>Isa 29:15 & Jer 23:24
As I posted earlier on another blog It is my belief that the Holy Spirit can only be consider deity in that it proceeds from Deity, as the Father's anointing.
---joseph on 8/25/16


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"joseph....why do you refer to the Holy Spirit as It..."
Because as I have said repeatedly, I believe the reference is related to The Father's direct divine inspiration and insight set apart for the enlightenment of man based on how the word is used throughout scripture.

"...when the Lord Jesus when introducing the Holy Spirit stated, "He, Him." stating "Personhood."
Jesus used the word "ekeinos" which can be defined as he,she or it, The translators simply choose the transliteration he, probably due to the pressure of religious bias, or perhaps their own.

However he is completely legit if referencing the source of the Holy Spirit.
Jhn 6:45>Psa 25:8-12>1Co 2:4-16
---joseph on 8/25/16


\\Sir, why do you refer to the Holy Spirit as "It."\\

In Greek, the term is "to agion pnevma", which is grammatically neuter.

As the translators of the KJV put it, has the Kingdom of God now become words, syllables--and even pronouns?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/25/16


Joseph ask, "Where in scripture is the Holy Spirit referred to as "a deity"?"

Gen 1:1-2, 26, 3:22, 11:7,

Isa 48:16

Acts 5:3-4

2 Cor 3:17
---john9346 on 8/25/16


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