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Are There Salvation Standards

If God is the Judge of our fitness for heaven, then how can we claim that we are already saved? Isn't that stealing God's job?

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 ---Jerry6593 on 8/26/16
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There are commandments of God. There always have been. BUT many confuse the commandments of God to say they consist strictly of the 10 commandments. This I believe is where so many have misread scripture. Abraham certainly kept the commandments of God, but those commandments were not the 10 commandments, as Abraham was 400 years before the 10 commandments. Obedience of FAITH is not obedience of the 10 commandments. Abel obeyed, offering a more acceptable sacrifice, having nothing to do with the 10 commandments, becoming an heir of the righteousness that comes BY FAITH, NOT THE LAW.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/16


Samuel, we should walk in the Light and be faithful to God just as Abraham was faithful and He counted it as righteousness. Absolutely, we should keep His commandments, all ten of them as He has said from the beginning.
---barb on 10/12/16


Galatians 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law...
Ok so we see justification is not by the law, but by faith....so now let's see if sanctification is by the law then, or if the law and faith are compatible........

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Philippians 3:9 and be found (IN HIM ( IN HIM IS NOW OUR SANCTIFICATION) not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

You are either IN HIM, OR IN YOUR own righteousness OUTSIDE OF CHRIST. You decide. I want to be found IN HIM.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/16


Correct Barb if we continue in His word. That means we must be walking in faith not walking in sin.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1John 2:3,4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/11/16


Did Jesus need to be sanctified? No, He sanctified Himself so that we would know that it is the Truth that sanctifies us and we would follow His example. "And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the Truth." John 17:19.

So what is the Truth? "Sanctify them through thy Truth, thy Word is Truth". John 17:17. The Word of God is the Truth given to us thru the Law and the Prophets and the Testimony of His Son.

"If you continue in My Word, then you are my disciples indeed, and you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free".
---barb on 10/11/16




Jerry, I believe under the New Covenant, the promises of God are so much BETTER, than they were under the old. From the beginning the time To today, the only thing that pleases God is faith. We see in Hebrews 11 those of faith. The Law only pointed to sin, it didn't change Gods plan of salvation. Obedience of faith. We see Abel obeyed God and became an heir of righteousness BY FAITH. Today we are given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, ( Abel was not) for the purpose of being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, ( Abel was not...yet still saved). No one in the OT was sanctified through the BODY OF CHRIST. Even Job said in CONFIDENCES, I KNOW my redeemer liveth and I will see Him in the last days...and I shall come forth as gold.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/16


kathr: "We cannot sanctify ourselves, only Christ can sanctify us. Our responsibility is obedience."

Wow! I could not agree more!

It is Christ all the way. In addition, I believe that it is Christ ALONE that judges our fitness for heaven. That is, it is Jesus who judges us, and not we ourselves. So how then can we proclaim our own salvation is set and can't be reversed.


---Jerry6593 on 10/11/16


Jerry, good points. This is what I believe scripture teaches.....that we are sanctified once and for all through the body of Christ ...Hebrews, and those whom God has justified he has also glorified....Romans. "Through the body of Christ", I believe means our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. This too is when we receive the fullness of the Life of the risen Christ IN US, as well as us being in Him. Under the New Covenant, We cannot sanctify ourselves, only Christ can sanctify us. Our responsibility is obedience. The Holy Spirit is working in is to will and to do.
---kathr4453 on 10/10/16


kathr: I disagree. The Bible teaches a three-step process of salvation: Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. Justification is the first step which you describe - acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ to pay the penalty (justify) of our sins. Sanctification is the lifelong Christian walk in which we "grow up" into Christ. Glorification is the final touch of immortality that we "put on" at Jesus return when we are caught up to meet Him in the air.

Only after the third step is salvation irrevocable.


---Jerry6593 on 10/10/16


Jerry, in answering your question above, the answer is that the only way we can be fitted for heaven is to become a NEW CREATION IN CHRIST. Scripture teaches us we are complete IN HIM. so one must be IN CHRIST first and foremost. To be IN CHRIST is something that happens instantly. No one is half in and half out. We are immediately baptized INTO CHRIST the moment we believe. Now we grow into maturity. But nowhere does any scripture teach only mature Christians go to heaven. We as 1 John says, are children, young men then fathers. And we see the least mature...children.....sins ARE FORGIVEN. Being acceptable IN The beloved, and fitted for heaven are one in the same.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/16




Nicole. Since Salvation is by Grace alone. Why do people have to go to purgatory?

Purgatory is not from the Bible.

The truth is Grace is never alone. It leads to works. Why because we are to be loving. Love works for others. Those who don't are not loving so not following GOD.

The RCC had many leaders who taught it was good to murder heretics. See Wikipedia and Britannica on the Inquisitions.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/9/16


The essentials of salvation are things necessary to save a soul. The gospel is simple, but there are required elements.
There can be no salvation without the fullness of the Godhead in Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection provided freely by grace through faith.

Salvation doesn't come by Allah, Buddha, Joseph Smith, Moses, or Pope Francis. You are not saved by trusting the church, your confession, prayers, or tithing. Faith is required. Faith in nothing is unbelief. Faith in the wrong thing is vanity.
---michael_e on 10/9/16


//how RCC and some protestants view being saved.//

Yes. RCC's belief of Salvation are Biblical

But Protestants' belief of Salvation is NOT in the Bible.

//The RCC has lent itself to thinking you work your way to heaven.//

Noooo, we NEVER THINK, STATE OR DECLARED THAT.

Protestants have said, made up, declared that RCC believes works for salvation.

//Saints in the RCC do proclaim it is by Faith that we are saved.//

Name one?

//That nature comes about when we are Born Again.-StrongAxe

Only Baptism brings the Gifts of Holy Spirit.
We can do nothing on our own.

Everyone in Purgatory are Saved by the Blood of Christ before death, or they would be in Hell instead of Purgatory.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/7/16


Nicole the problem is how RCC and some protestants view being saved. In the past and still to some extent today. The RCC has lent itself to thinking you work your way to heaven. But some Saints in the RCC do proclaim it is by Faith that we are saved.

Some Protestants believe once saved always saved. So works don't matter.

They think of both of us as saying we work our way to heaven. The Bible to me teaches that those who are saved will work. Why because they love others so it is their nature to work and help others. That nature comes about when we are Born Again.

But I cannot agree with purgatory. The blood of Christ is sufficient to remove all sin from us and our records.

A full talk on this would be longer.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/16


Luke, give chapter and verse of Satan following God's Will besides not touching Job's person and his wife?

//Salvation in the RCC is by works.//

NO WHERE IN CCC STATES THAT!

You are very confused.

First understand what the RCC teaches BEFORE trying to argue against it.

Everything you said is INCORRECT.

Salvation comes from God.
Not from the 'Sinner's Prayer' which tries to take credit for one's own salvation.

//you sin and die, you go to Purgatory and if you do works in Purgatory//

Some go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

And you can't do works in Purgatory.

//You don't have to be born again of the Spirit.---Luke

Baptism is when you are born again as Jesus commanded.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/7/16


Nicole, you say that Satan believes but does not do the will of the Father, but you are wrong. Satan cannot do anything without the will of the Father. God is in control. Satan is under the authority of God. Everything Satan does is by the permission of God.
Salvation in the RCC is by works. Getting baptized, eating the flesh of Christ, and I don't know how they do that, doing the catechisms and having faith in the RCC.
That is salvation by works. And if you sin and die, you go to Purgatory and if you do works in Purgatory or some relative does them for your behalf, you go to haven, more works.
That is the RCC salvation. You don't have to be born again of the Spirit.
---Luke on 10/7/16


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If you really believe that you are "saved", then is this condition irrevocable? That is, can you be lost in the future, or is God bound to save you no matter what? How would you know? Maybe salvation occurs AFTER the judgement. And who is the judge? You or God?



---Jerry6593 on 10/7/16


Luke and I agree with you that those who love GOD will follow the will of GOD and keep his commandments. Those who say they love GOD but don't keep his commandments are liars. Read I John.

Nicole the RCC taught that heretics like Protestants should be put to death. See "Should Heretics Receive the Death Penalty?
by Dr. Taylor Marshall"

The number murdered by the RCC varies due to lack of record keeping. Also if you include the wars against protestants the number is in the millions. But that is over a 500 year period.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/16


Catholics understand Jesus' Salvation.

It's Protestant's version of Salvation Catholics do NOT understand.

//If you do not believe in Jesus Christ, why would you be doing the will of the Father if you do not believe in the Son.?//

Satan and demons believed in Jesus but didn't do His Will.

Mark 1:23-24 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out, What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you arethe HOLY ONE of God!

BETTER yet, Ruben knows his Scripture

Luke 6:46-47 Why do you call Me Lord, Lord, but not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and ACTS on them:
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/4/16


Ruben, I now see you do not understand salvation. Maybe those in the Catholic Church do not understand. Here is what you said: "Those who DID the will of the Father will enter Heaven..not by just believing or not!"

If you do not believe in Jesus Christ, why would you be doing the will of the Father if you do not believe in the Son.? Can you possibly explain that?

A lost person has to be made alive by Christ, in order for the lost person to belief. And when he believes in Christ, he then wants to do the will of the Father and the Son. The longer he is a Christian, the more he wants to do whatever possible.
There has to be a change of the heart, spiritual Circumcision of the heart.
---Luke on 10/4/16


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Jesus says those who truly love him and have repented will do two main things to show they are Christians.

1John 5:2,3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Does mean perfect love. NO. Just like a baby is not perfect neither are we. But we will be on the narrow road. Falling repenting but keeping on. Not on the broad road living in sin and hating others. Thinking it is okay.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/4/16


Strongaxe,

The bible says God your creator is holy, righteous, just, and pure.

The bible says you are a sinner who have committed sin against him. Have you ever told a lie, looked with lust on a woman, stolen, been disobedient to your parents, have you always loved God perfectly??

The bible says The Lord Jesus Christ who is God took on Human Flesh is the only one who lived a perfect and sinless life and is the only way to be reconciled to God...

The bible commands you to repent/turn from your sin today my friend and trust Christ to save you from his wrath of Eternal Hell against sinners...

Plead/call out to God to show you mercy and to save you from his wrath.


Always in love,

John
---john9346 on 10/1/16


Maybe Jesus doesn't know them because they never knew Him. Jesus knows His sheep and His sheep follow Him. Is it enough to believe that He was born in the flesh, died on the cross and was resurrected or are we to believe in the truth He taught, the words He spoke and the doctrines His Father gave Him to bring down here to us?

It is the Father's will that we open up our ears and hear the voice, the knocking and the testimony of His Son.

The first fruits of Revelation 7 and 14 are the first to enter into the Kingdom. They are blameless, no lie is found in their mouths. They are without fault before the throne of God and the first to be born again. They are sealed with the seal of God. God has judged them and found them fit.
---barb on 9/12/16


reuben ask, "And why did not Jesus know them?"

Jesus answers your question vs 15, "15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
---john9346 on 9/12/16


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Reuben states, "Those who DID the will of the Father will enter Heaven..not by just believing or not!"

But remember these individuals never never believed my friend.

Like I said this context is addressing "False Prophets." not about salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ Alone...
---john9346 on 9/12/16


vs 23, "23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Note, the Lord Jesus "Never Knew them."
---john9346 on 9/11/16

And why did not Jesus know them?

note:

1.16 You will know them by their fruits.(Works)

2.but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

3. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand, 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it."
---Ruben on 9/12/16


vs 23, "23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Note, the Lord Jesus "Never Knew them."
---john9346 on 9/11/16

Notice also Jesus said on verse 21 "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, 22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME ON THAT DAY" ...What day is Jesus referring to, of course at the end of time..

Those who DID the will of the Father will enter Heaven..not by just believing or not!
---Ruben on 9/11/16


Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Only those who follow Jesus and love others and love GOD are his disciples.

Read I John.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/11/16


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reuben ask, "Where does Jesus and Matthew say anything about if they believe or not? Matthew 7:16-27."

vs 23, "23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Note, the Lord Jesus "Never Knew them."
---john9346 on 9/11/16


john9346* The Lord Jesus answers you in vs 16,

16 You will know them by their fruits.( WORKS)

Not by what they believed!


john9346 * These individuals never "Believed." as Matthew tells us what the Lord Jesus taught him.

Where does Jesus and Matthew say anything about if they believe or not? Matthew 7:16-27
---Ruben on 9/9/16


I said, "Sir, "Scripture." no where teaches "Emotionalism." to proove genuineness of salvation, it commands sinners to "Repent."

This is why, "altar calls, invitational hymns, and sinner prayers." are "Unscriptural." because it equivocates sinners in to believing this is Genuine Biblical Repentance.
---john9346 on 9/8/16


strongaxe said, "
Thus, when a person "feels deep down that he is saved", it could very well be a genuine assurance of salvation, but it could also be a delusion. That feeling itself is no assurance of salvation."

Sir, "Scripture." no where teaches "Emotionalism." to proove genuineness of salvation, it commands sinners to "Repent."

See, Mk 1:15 and Lk 13:1-5.

---john9346 on 9/7/16


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//..they THOUGHT they were saved. They had an inward assurance, deep in their soul, that they were saved, yet that inward assurance was not true, but a delusion.
when a person "feels deep down that he is saved", it could very well be a genuine assurance of salvation, but it could also be a delusion. That feeling itself is no assurance of salvation.---StrongAxe on 9/7/16


Beautifully said.

A sad occurrence, but well explained.

We can not base our assurance to Salvation based on 'feelings'

God forbid!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/16


strongaxe states, "Yes, I get Matthew's point, but you're still missing mine."

Sir, as a Sola Scripturist and a Tota Scripturist I allow the authors of Scripture to proove and establish their points...

Sir, Matthew has told you his meaning why are you trying to make him say what he is not saying??

The argument you are raising actually Heb 6:4-6 Biblically Supports your point and I agree because it is Biblically Contextually Established...

Keep in mind Heb 6:4-6 supports your point not Matt 7:15-23.

May Yahweh guide you today,

John
---john9346 on 9/7/16


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 6:4-6
---john9346 on 9/7/16


john9346:

You wrote: The point here is Matthew is conveying to us what Jesus taught him and what he clearly lays out to us to know is these individuals were never saved and these individuals were "False Prophets."

Yes, I get Matthew's point, but you're still missing mine.

These people were NOT saved. I get that. I always got that. However, they THOUGHT they were saved. They had an inward assurance, deep in their soul, that they were saved, yet that inward assurance was not true, but a delusion.

Thus, when a person "feels deep down that he is saved", it could very well be a genuine assurance of salvation, but it could also be a delusion. That feeling itself is no assurance of salvation.
---StrongAxe on 9/7/16


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strongaxe states, "
You're still missing my point. It doesn't matter whether they ACTUALLY believed or not. What I'm saying is that, FROM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE, they THOUGHT they believed. They THOUGHT they were saved, based on the Biblical promises, but because their perceptions were flawed, they were wrong."

Actually, the point that matters here is what Matthew wants us to understand...

The point here is Matthew is conveying to us what Jesus taught him and what he clearly lays out to us to know is these individuals were never saved and these individuals were "False Prophets."

Strongaxe sir, try to listen to the context of what Matthew is telling you my friend vs 15-23.

May Yahweh guide,
---john9346 on 9/6/16


Correct Strongax. Those who were the goats thought they were saved. But instead are cast into hell. Matthew 25:41

The Sheep on the other hand are the righteous ones. They followed GOD and loved others.

This is a parable as well as the talents part is. Both are teaching truths. Those who love GOD will love and act on their love to others.

Those who don't no matter how much they say they believe are fooling themselves.

They don't examine their hearts and they don't love others.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/6/16


john9346:

You wrote: These individuals never "Believed." as Matthew tells us what the Lord Jesus taught him.

You're still missing my point. It doesn't matter whether they ACTUALLY believed or not. What I'm saying is that, FROM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE, they THOUGHT they believed. They THOUGHT they were saved, based on the Biblical promises, but because their perceptions were flawed, they were wrong.
---StrongAxe on 9/6/16


Reuben ask, "How did Jesus say we would know they were false prophets?"

The Lord Jesus answers you in vs 16,furthermore, this conversation is not dealing with as strongaxe is trying to propose that 'Individuals who thought they were saved and later found out they weren't'

These individuals never "Believed." as Matthew tells us what the Lord Jesus taught him.
---john9346 on 9/6/16


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samuelBB7 states, "My mistake. In these verses some think they are saved when they don't love others. They instead are the goats."

Sir, are you aware that there are 2 groups of people vs 34 and vs 41.

None of these groups are expressing to be saved and learning they are not.

If you read from 31-45 the object here is the Lord Jesus Christ not the 2 groups (righteous and unrighteous)

Also note, This is a parable.
---john9346 on 9/6/16


john9346* The context is addressing "False Prophets."

Sir, the issue you are going to have with this text is "False Prophets." do not believe, they never believed .
Listen carefully,

I Have now it your turn. How did Jesus say we would know they were false prophets?

16" You will know them by their fruits.(Works)

I see nothing about not believing!

john 9346 *that is why the Lord Jesus finished by saying what he said in 22-23.
Listen carefully,

What is it that you always say, v21 comes before 22-23:)

Jesus say in v 21 " Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he WHO DOES THE WILL of my Father who is in heaven. "
---Ruben on 9/6/16


Reuben,

Thanks for letting us know the context of vs 15-23

The context is addressing "False Prophets."

Reubenstates, "So it did not depends in 'only' in believing in him."

Sir, the issue you are going to have with this text is "False Prophets." do not believe, they never believed that is why the Lord Jesus finished by saying what he said in 22-23.
Listen carefully,

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
---john9346 on 9/5/16


Romans 8:16 - THE spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit , that we are the Children Of God ,
---RichardC on 9/5/16


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I must apologize. I meant Matthew 25:31-46

My mistake. In these verses some think they are saved when they don't love others. They instead are the goats.

1John 5:2,3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/16


samuelBB7 states, "Matthew 24 many will think they are saved. Who are not."

Sir, you reference Matt 24 which covers many topics which verse are you referencing?

Could you provide the referencing verse so that the readers here do not be confused.
---john9346 on 9/5/16


Tell us, what did the Lord Jesus open the conversation by saying in vs 15 (context, context)??
---john9346 on 9/4/16

15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Tell us John, how did Jesus tell us how we would know them by their fruits? Context context

16.You will know them by their fruits. ( Good Works)

Jesus goes on and says "but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. v21

So it did not depends in 'only' in believing in him.

Something your theology does not believe in!
---Ruben on 9/5/16


God does NOT judge Christians. Christ judges Christian at His judgement seat, for the Christian's works but not for salvation.
---wivv on 9/5/16


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We are supposed to judge ourselves. But many never really do that.

2Corithains 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 24 many will think they are saved. Who are not.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/4/16


strongaxe states, "My point is that the evil trees BELIEVE that they are good trees. They honestly believe they are doing God's work, but they are wrong. It is very possible to genuinely believe one is saved, but be mistaken. We are not good judges of our own selves."

Sir, the conversation did not start at vs 17-18, but 15.

Tell us, what did the Lord Jesus open the conversation by saying in vs 15 (context, context)??
---john9346 on 9/4/16


john9346:

You wrote: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

My point is that the evil trees BELIEVE that they are good trees. They honestly believe they are doing God's work, but they are wrong. It is very possible to genuinely believe one is saved, but be mistaken. We are not good judges of our own selves.
---StrongAxe on 9/3/16


Strongaxe note following:


15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
---john9346 on 9/1/16


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strongaxe ask, "These are people who genuinely believed they were doing God's will - yet they were still wrong. How do you explain this?"

Sir, things to note:

1. Context, context context.

2. vs 22-23 is the end of Jesus's Conversation.

3. Jesus conversation starts in vs 15 not vs 22-23.
---john9346 on 9/1/16


Lets be honest. If you do not know that you are saved it is probably because you are not.
---michael_e on 9/1/16


john9346:

Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are people who genuinely believed they were doing God's will - yet they were still wrong. How do you explain this?
---StrongAxe on 8/31/16


strongaxe states, "This is a command to believe. It is not a guarantee that the command will actually be carried out."

But Jesus said if it will be carried out the following is a guarantee:

"Hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life."
---john9346 on 8/31/16


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strongaxe states, "
Remember, there will be many who genuinely think they believe, but will be wrong."

And for the third time did you read the following before Matt 7:22-23??


15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.



---john9346 on 8/31/16


Reuben ask, "The verses you quoted, are you saying that all that we need to have life everlasting is to only believe in Jesus?"

Yes sir,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life."

Jn 5:24

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Jn 6:40

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

Jn 6:47
---john9346 on 8/31/16


Acts 2:38 is your guarantee that your salvation is completed
---Samuel on 8/31/16


/We don't KNOW we are saved.\-StrongAxe on 8/27/16
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
-and again: "that ye may know that ye have eternal life"
Rom 8:24 For we are saved...
1Co 1:18 ...unto us which are saved...
1Co 15:2 ...ye are saved...
2Co 2:15 ...them that are saved...
Eph 2:5 ...by grace ye are saved...
-I am already saved by the grace of God through the sacrifice of my Lord Jesus Christ.
How do I know? - The Bible tells me so.
---micha9344 on 8/30/16


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john9346:

You wrote: Jesus answers your question in the verses stated prior, "Believe, believe, believe."

This is a command to believe. It is not a guarantee that the command will actually be carried out. Remember, there will be many who genuinely think they believe, but will be wrong.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/16


Reuben said, "Really just this one verse, for someone who preaches context, context,"

And did you read fully the context of what me and StrongAxe is discussing sir??

Please do so and I will be glad to respond to you.


Thank You,

John
---john9346 on 8/30/16

Of course I did! That's why strongaxe brought up the scripture verse, not anybody who says " Lord Lord are save! The verses you quoted, are you saying that all that we need to have life everlasting is to only believe in Jesus?
---Ruben on 8/30/16


Strongaxe ask, "Yes. However, how do YOU know that YOU fulfill the prerequisites?"

Sir, first, I like your question one thing I like about dialogging with you is your Philosophical Inquiry.

Jesus answers your question in the verses stated prior, "Believe, believe, believe."
---john9346 on 8/30/16


Strongaxe,

Sir, did you read the verses before Matt 7:22-23??

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
---john9346 on 8/30/16


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Reuben said, "Really just this one verse, for someone who preaches context, context,"

And did you read fully the context of what me and StrongAxe is discussing sir??

Please do so and I will be glad to respond to you.


Thank You,

John
---john9346 on 8/30/16


john9346 * " He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life."

Jn 5:24

Really just this one verse, for someone who preaches context, context,

What else does Jesus say?:

" , "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." vs 28-29

In fact 1 JHn 3:10-15 uses the same words as Jesus,

"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. .. and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
---Ruben on 8/30/16


john9346:

You wrote: Sir, note, John records Jesus telling them, "hath everlasting life," not, "May have everlasting life."

Yes. However, how do YOU know that YOU fulfill the prerequisites? Jesus himself said that many people would call out "Lord, lord!" (fully believing they are saved), yet he will say "I never knew you!". They fully believed that they fulfilled the prerequisites, and their belief was incorrect.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/16


Jesus answered what a person must be to have eternal life?


Luke 10:25-27 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.

Read the rest of the Chapter.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/29/16


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strongaxe states, "No, they don't. The word "know" isn't mentioned in any of the scriptures you quoted."

Sir, note, John records Jesus telling them, "hath everlasting life," not, "May have everlasting life."

Strongaxe states, "probably includes us, but not necessarily -"

Sir, tell us, in this verse, where is Exclusive language used??
---john9346 on 8/29/16


Strongaxe cites, "because as Jesus said elsewhere, there are many who will say "Lord, lord!" and he will tell them "I never knew you!". These are people who genuinely believe they are saved - but are still wrong in their belief."

Sir, do you understand Matthew's Context of chapter 7 that you are referencing??

Sir, Did you read what Matthew tells us what Jesus said before 21-23??
---john9346 on 8/29/16


john9346:

You wrote: Sir, note followingScriptures that clarifies unequivocally that "We know we are save."

No, they don't. The word "know" isn't mentioned in any of the scriptures you quoted.

"He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me" probably includes us, but not necessarily - because as Jesus said elsewhere, there are many who will say "Lord, lord!" and he will tell them "I never knew you!". These are people who genuinely believe they are saved - but are still wrong in their belief - i.e. it is belief, and not knowledge.
---StrongAxe on 8/29/16


The ultimate commandment is Love - as in the verb form (something of which many on these christian blogs lack).

God will judge us by how we love God and how we love others. The first resurrection is when God separates the true christians from the world. The second resurrection is when God judges all the other people according to what they did on Earth.
---Steveng on 8/28/16


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strongaxe states, "We don't KNOW we are saved. We TRUST we are saved.

Sir, note followingScriptures that clarifies unequivocally that "We know we are save."






"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life."

Jn 5:24

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Jn 6:40

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

Jn 6:47

---john9346 on 8/28/16


micha9344:

You wrote: Phi 1:6...

That's just it - confidence is based on trust (i.e. faith), not knowledge.

Mat 19:25-26...

With God all things are POSSIBLE. He CAN save us. That doesn't GUARANTEE that he will.

Rom 8:24...

Hope, not knowledge.

We don't KNOW we are saved. We TRUST we are saved. That is the difference between knowledge and faith. If we know something absolutely, we have no need for faith, yet nowhere does the Bible say that we can abandon faith for knowledge.
---StrongAxe on 8/27/16


Phi 1:6 Being confident...that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
Mat 19:25-26 ...Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,
-If the Bible says we are saved, then we are saved.
---micha9344 on 8/27/16


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