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Is Sola Scriptura Right

Is Sola Scriptura a good way to find out if our interpretation of a passage correct? or do we interpret the passages anyway we want to?

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//Bible does teach that scripture is the final authority.//

Who is going to interpret this authority?

//To say Sola Scriptura is wrong is to say the Church leaders can replace Scripture with their traditions.//

As Martin Luther did.

That why ONLY the Church set up by Jesus has the FINAL AUTHORITY.

Again, how do you KNOW how many books should be in your Sola Scriptura?

Who decided the number?

The RCC in the 5th Century decided 73 book Bible and I trust Her decision.

Luther decided your 66 book Bible in the 16th Century and you trust his decision.

//So which is the higher authority. Scripture or men?---Samuelbb7

Correction
Scripture or the Church? CHURCH
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/7/16


Nicole your point to Luke is true.

But the Bible does teach that scripture is the final authority.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

To say Sola Scriptura is wrong is to say the Church leaders can replace Scripture with their traditions.

Matthew 15:7-9 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So which is the higher authority. Scripture or men?
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/16


//I do not know where you get your understanding of Sola Scriptura.//

You all.

//Scripture is the perfect and only standard of spiritual truth, revealing infallibly... That is what Sola Scriptura means.//

I KNOW that is what you believe. I said that when I spoke to Samuel.

Please take the time to read the whole post.

Samuel is the one disagreeing with you about the meaning of Sola Scriptura.

The RCC and I states Sola Scriptura ISN'T in Scripture.

Your beef is with Samuel not me.

//The RCC rejects it because they want to add to Scripture was is not in Scripture.---Luke on 10/7/16

Again, Martin Luther as a RC Priest had the 73 Book Bible as we do today.

Logic goes a long way.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/7/16


Nicole, I do not know where you get your understanding of Sola Scriptura.
Scripture is the perfect and only standard of spiritual truth, revealing infallibly all that we must believe in order to be saved and all that we must do in order to glorify Almighty God. That is what Sola Scriptura means. The sufficiency of Scripture as our supreme authority in all spiritual matters. That all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught either explicitly or implicitly in Scripture.
The RCC rejects it because they want to add to Scripture was is not in Scripture.
---Luke on 10/7/16


Strongaxe, when I mentioned the Jehovah Witnesses Bible, I did not say it had 73 books or 90. I was saying they had their own Bible. Just like the RCC have their own Bible. But my mom and I were Catholic. I came to Christ and my eyes were opened and I left the RCC. My Mom continued going to the RCC and I have her bible and even though it is in Latin, (" La Santa Biblia ") and it has 66 books. From Sociedades Biblicas Unidas. So my understanding was that the priest only have those bibles with 73 book.

Ruben, how could the Apostles use Sola Scriptura? Scripture was not complete yet. The New Testament was not complete yet in their time. It was just beginning to be written.
Scripture interprets Scripture.
---Luke on 10/7/16




StrongAxe, great point. I will start quoting from the 7 book of Scriptures John rejects.

//Sola scriptura is about the Bible being the final authority in all doctrine. It is not about how to study scripture.--Samuelbb7 on 10/6/16

No Samuel. You know exactly what Sola Scriptura means.

ONLY not FINAL.

Final Authority means there are other authorities for one to choose from, but the Bible makes the FINAL decision.

As when we say the Pope has the final authority.
Because we have Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Monsignors and Priests whom have authority.

Sola Scriptura means NO OTHER SOURCES can be considered when you make decisions in your life!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/7/16


john9346:

If you quote (say) Hebrews, you must FIRST accept that Hebrews is a part of scripture. You will similarly disregard someone else who similarly quotes Judith, even though THAT person believes that Judith is part of scripture. Why? Because YOU believe Hebrews is scripture, but Judith is not. You can't meaningful base any doctrines on scripture alone, until you FIRST know exactly what scripture is comprised of.

Yes, God inspired scripture, but that doesn't help if you have a bunch of books in front of you and you don't yet know which ones are scripture or not. Only once you have determined which books are actually scripture (i.e. the canonicity question) can you use those books to develop doctrine (i.e. sola scriptura).
---StrongAxe on 10/7/16


Reuben states, "In fact the Apostles did not use sola scriptura in making a final authorithy on Gentiles converts but instead call on a council to settle doctrinal dispute.Furthermore , when the council sent Paul,Barabbas and Silas to go forth and teach, they were not told to use sola scriptura."

Tell us state for us where is this said in the "Scriptures."
---john9346 on 10/5/16

Acts chapter 15
---Ruben on 10/7/16


john9346* says Certainly, 2 Tim 3:16-17.

where does it say our faith will be soley on books in this verse?

1 "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings"

Which means the OT with the Deuterocanonicals , and you rejects those books?

2. "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, "

Couple of things on this verse,

1. It says profitable not sufficient .

2. Profitable is "ophelimos" in Greek, which means useful!

3. " the man of God may be complete"(Artios)

It is referring to a clergyman not a layman, also it says the clergyman is "suitable". Artios does not describes scripture.
---Ruben on 10/6/16


Chuck Swindoll is giving a series of sermons on the proper way to study the Bible. Which I don't agree with everything he teaches. I do find this Bible study is excellent. We should study the Bible in context, understanding the words, who they were written too and how they fit in the message of GOD.

We need to study the Bible correctly. Sola scriptura is about the Bible being the final authority in all doctrine. It is not about how to study scripture.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/16




//cardinal cajetan and cardinal Seripando both rejected the apocrypha..know anything about these men your arguments against Luther is "Unfounded."--john

WHAT?

1. I WON'T CARE if all the 16th Century RC Cardinals came out claiming that ALL the Fathers of the Church were wrong about the 73 book Bible!

Then proclaimed after their studies it should be a 66 Books Bible because we are all SMARTER than all including St. Thomas Aquinas.

2. ONLY the Pope has the authority (Matt 16:13-19) to make the Bible change.
NOTE: AND NOT ONE POPE DARED TO DO SO!

3. BTW, there is evidence that Cardinal Cajetan DIDN'T REJECT the Apocrypha

Google: Cajetan's Quote on the Apocrypha is Fraudulent? by James Swan
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/6/16


john9346, MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS by Pius XII which dogmatized the Assumption (an unnecessary step in Orthodox eyes) specifically mentions the Virgin's death as the teaching of the RCC.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/6/16


The interpretation is how God's grace works in us (Philippians 2:13) and guides us "continually" (Isaiah 58:11) in His peace (Colossians 3:15) > Proverbs 3:5-6.
---Bill on 10/6/16


strongaxe states, "No, I am not. I understand they are different. However, Sola Scriptura DEPENDS on scripture (by definition), and one cannot do so unless one KNOWS just what scrripture IS and what it is not. Sola Scriptura is NOT canonicity, but DEPENDS on canonicity as its foundation.

No sir, Sola Scriptura depends on God and God alone that is why if one will read the "Scriptures." these types of objections will be noted as "Unfounded."

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice."

"And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."

Jn 10:4-5.
---john9346 on 10/6/16


"St. Jerome distinguished between canonical books and ecclesiastical books. The latter he judged were circulated by the Church as good spiritual reading but were not recognized as authoritative Scripture. The situation remained unclear in the ensuing centuries...For example, John of Damascus, Gregory the Great, Walafrid, Nicolas of Lyra and Tostado continued to doubt the canonicity of the deuterocanonical books."


(The New Catholic Encyclopedia, on The Canon).
---john9346 on 10/6/16


you are confusing canonicity with Sola Scriptura which are not the same thing

No, I am not. I understand they are different. However, Sola Scriptura DEPENDS on scripture (by definition), and one cannot do so unless one KNOWS just what scrripture IS and what it is not. Sola Scriptura is NOT canonicity, but DEPENDS on canonicity as its foundation.

if you want to dialog concerning canonicity state canonicity. If you want to dialog concerning "SolaScriptura." then state "Sola Scriptura."

I was merely responding to your comment that scriptures testify to their own authority. So what? heretical scriptures also testify to their own authority, but that is not sufficient reason to trust them.
---StrongAxe on 10/6/16


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f
"The Roman Church and Latin rites celebrate the Assumption but are silent on the question of whether she did in fact die, as we know death."

William J. Byron, S.J

catholic digest



"the death of Mary is not certain, either historically or from revelation."

Father Freithoff, O.P.,

"the death of the Most Holy Virgin may be considered as historically proved and explicitly revealed: as such (explicitly revealed) it may be the subject of a dogmatic definition:"

Father J. F. Bonnefoy, O.F.M.,


---john9346 on 10/5/16


Nicole said, "Luke, Martin Luther as a Catholic Priest his Bible had 73 books Bible
But when Luther left the Catholic Church he ended up with 66 Book Bible."

Nicole, cardinal cajetan and cardinal Seripando both rejected the apocrypha they both emphasize to follow Jerome in rejecting the apocrypha. If you as a follower of the rcc know anything about these men your arguments against Luther is "Unfounded."
---john9346 on 10/5/16


Reuben ask, "Where does the Apostles tell us that our faith will be based soley on books?"

Certainly, 2 Tim 3:16-17.

Reuben states, "In fact the Apostles did not use sola scriptura in making a final authorithy on Gentiles converts but instead call on a council to settle doctrinal dispute.Furthermore , when the council sent Paul,Barabbas and Silas to go forth and teach, they were not told to use sola scriptura."

Tell us state for us where is this said in the "Scriptures."
---john9346 on 10/5/16


"The doctrine of Sola Scriptura teaches that the "Scriptures." are the "Final Authority." for faith and practice for the Christian. In other words, all traditions, thoughts, and opinions must come in to ."
"
---john9346 on 10/4/16



Where does the Apostles tell us that our faith will be based soley on books?

In fact the Apostles did not use sola scriptura in making a final authorithy on Gentiles converts but instead call on a council to settle doctrinal dispute.Furthermore , when the council sent Paul,Barabbas and Silas to go forth and teach, they were not told to use sola scriptura.

What traditions are you talking about?

Whose thoughts and opinions? yours:)
---Ruben on 10/5/16


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strongaxe states, "
You totally missed my point. I was not speaking to Sola Scriptura, but to the above comment. Which scriptures do so was NOT obvious to all, and even to this day, many disagree on which books do so."

Strongaxe, if you want to dialog concerning canonicity state canonicity. If you want to dialog concerning "SolaScriptura." then state "Sola Scriptura."

Like I have explained to you now on 2 postings Sola Scriptura and canonicity is not the samething. You are assuming the second to interpret the first which is an error.

I did think you would at least consult to be inform by the sources provided to you on the prior blog.
---john9346 on 10/5/16


strongaxe states, "The very concept of Sola Scriptura is theoretically nice, but practically meaningless, unless you FIRST know just which books are actually IN scripture in the first place for you to trust in. The."

Once again, you are confusing canonicity with Sola Scriptura which are not the same thing, You do not seem to understand the 2 categories.

The Scriptures do not depend onHuman Inventions or wisdom, but God and God alone.

The Scriptures are not (Human-in-origin), but "Divine-in-origin."
---john9346 on 10/5/16


john9346:

You wrote: In Sola Scriptura, the Scriptures testify to there own Authenticity.

You totally missed my point. I was not speaking to Sola Scriptura, but to the above comment. Which scriptures do so was NOT obvious to all, and even to this day, many disagree on which books do so.

The very concept of Sola Scriptura is theoretically nice, but practically meaningless, unless you FIRST know just which books are actually IN scripture in the first place for you to trust in. The application of Sola Scriptura necessarily depends on canonicity. (As reductio ad absurdum, someone who believes the Book of Mormon or the Qur'an are scripture will reach very different theological conclusions from someone who doesn't.)
---StrongAxe on 10/5/16


//there are many Roman Catholics who believe both ways,//

There are many Catholic who believe abortion is okay.

It doesn't mean the RCC believes abortion is okay.

Go to the CCC to know what the RCC believes if you are getting different view points.


//my point is this is suppose to be the "Infallible Church."--John

The RCC NEVER has called herself an infallible Church.

Rather She has said She both Divine and Human.

The RCC states the Pope is ONLY infallible in Faith and Morals.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/5/16


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No, it doesn't work both ways, john9346.

The point, which you are missing, is what is actually taught, NOT what individuals believe despite the official teaching.

This seems to be a distinction too subtle for you to grasp.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/5/16


cluny states, "The teaching of the Roman Catholic church, as well as ALL the pre-reformation churches, is that the Virgin Mary DID die. If any RCs believe otherwise, it's DESPITE the the teaching of their church."

Sir, you are clearlywrong:

1. In the pre-reformation churches this wasn't a "Dogma." and not an "Unanious Agreement."

2. there are many Roman Catholics who believe both ways, my point is this is suppose to tbe the "Infallible Church."

You see, it works both ways.
---john9346 on 10/5/16


strongaxe states, "This is not obvious, since it was many centuries before councils reached consensus, and many groups disagree even now."

Yes, many centuries after this is known as canonicity.

But you are wrong before even long before the councils the "Scriptures." were known and defended...

Remember, Sola Scriptura is the nature of Scripture not Canonicity addressing tradition/compiling.

In Sola Scriptura, the Scriptures testify to there own Authenticity.
---john9346 on 10/5/16


strongaxe:

egregious Errors in statements:

"JW bible is Protestant bible, just re-translated."

False, Sir, have you studied the histor of the JW's Bible (NWT)

"Septuagint Greek translation of Old Testament with extra books was in use during time of Jesus and Apostles, so it is not a new tradition."

Sir really, can you proove this?

strongaxe said, "Scriptures never say this (except God doesn't contradict himself.) Theologians interpret scripture, frequently differently."

Sir, theologians disagreeing is not nor does it have varying on "Sola Scriptura."
---john9346 on 10/5/16


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Luke, Martin Luther as a Catholic Priest his Bible had 73 books Bible
But when Luther left the Catholic Church he ended up with 66 Book Bible.

The RCC STILL has a 73 Book Bible Luther had when he was a Catholic Priest.

Babies can't circumcises themselves

Genesis 17:11-14 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight DAYS OLD must be circumcised, including those born in your household,..they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any UNCIRCUMCISED MALE, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be CUT OFF from his people, he has broken my covenant.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/5/16


Luke:

Your probably experienced Protestant, not Catholic churches.

JW bible is Protestant bible, just re-translated. Maybe you mean Mormons?

Septuagint Greek translation of Old Testament with extra books was in use during time of Jesus and Apostles, so it is not a new tradition.


Cluny:

I learned this in Sunday school, from nuns. If nuns actin as church's agents and teach error, it IS church teaching, even if not officially.



john9346:

This is not obvious, since it was many centuries before councils reached consensus, and many groups disagree even now.

Scriptures never say this (except God doesn't contradict himself.) Theologians interpret scripture, frequently differently.
---StrongAxe on 10/4/16


Nicole, where are the Bibles that have 73 books? I have lived 70 years now and never ran into a Bible with 73 books in it. Are the priest the only one's that have the bibles?
You do know that the Jehovah Witnesses recreated their own Bible? Now you claimed that the RCC priest have bibles with 73 books. It might be now possible to have some one else having bibles with 90 books. The more books the bible has the more their religion can add to their believes.
I also hear you asked someone if babies are suppose to be baptized? The answer is no, since babies do not understand what sin is. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ are commanded to be baptized. Babies do not believe in anything, all they want to do is cry, eat, and pup.
---Luke on 10/4/16


\\3. Melkite Catholics reject Papal Infallibility and Roman Catholics accept also some Roman Catholics believe Mary never died while others believe she did die.\\

The teaching of the Roman Catholic church, as well as ALL the pre-reformation churches, is that the Virgin Mary DID die. If any RCs believe otherwise, it's DESPITE the the teaching of their church.

There is only ONE O in "prove" and its derivatives, not two.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/4/16


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True people who believe in Sola Scriptura come up with different interpretations. Some of that is because the tools they use. Such as proof text. Which takes texts out of context and time.
Dispensationalism or Covenant theology schools. I for instance follow the Covenant school and reject dispensationalism.

But most people go to the Bible to prove what they already believe. But those who follow the Holy Spirit and seek truth will find it.

Another tool is context and time. For a proof text to be a real proof it must be understood in context of the surrounding passages and who and when it was written too.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/4/16


* Pope Honorius reigned from 625 to 638 A.D. He was condemned as a heretic by the Sixth Ecumenical Council (680-681). He was also condemned as a heretic by Pope Leo II, as well as by every other pope until the eleventh century.

* Pope Leo V only reigned for one month (July 903). Cardinal Christopher put Leo in prison and became Pope. Then Christopher was put in prison by Cardinal Sergius. Sergius killed Leo and Christopher while they were in prison. He also killed every cardinal who had opposed him.

---john9346 on 10/4/16


Reuben here again is the definition of Sola Scriptura:

"The doctrine of Sola Scriptura teaches that the "Scriptures." are the "Final Authority." for faith and practice for the Christian. In other words, all traditions, thoughts, and opinions must come in to "Total Subjection." to the "Scriptures."
"
---john9346 on 10/4/16


Reuben:

things to note:

1. Not sure of your point because this neither prooves or disprooves "Sola Scriptura.", this is not the teaching of Sola Scriptura.

2. The OPC is just one branch of Presbyterianism and you still didn't answer the question have you asked every Presbyterian Pastors.

3. Melkite Catholics reject Papal Infallibility and Roman Catholics accept also some Roman Catholics believe Mary never died while others believe she did die.

Also, Roman Catholics are divided over Vatican 1 and 2, Dual-source Revelation
---john9346 on 10/4/16


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john9346* Presbyterian Pastor why they believe this practice?

"In light of the cumulative evidence of comparing Scripture with Scripture, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is persuadedas historic Christianity has been persuadedthat the answer to the question, "Is infant baptism biblical?" is a resounding Yes!."

Notice the key word you use,

"The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating."

And theirs :"In light of the cumulative evidence of comparing Scripture with Scripture"

Next just look at this website so many using sola scriptura but have disagreement among key doctrine!
---Ruben on 10/4/16


Nicole said, "Yes. Do you and StrongAxe understand Matt 23:1-3?"Ok,"

First, certainly, the Lord Jesus Christ in context defines for all who will read Matt 23:1-3 what he meant.

Next, since you have read Luther's 95 Theses which one do you disagree with that he stated?
---john9346 on 10/3/16


Nicole ask, "John, answered my question. Where in the Bible states there is ONLY 66 books contained within itself?"

In the "Scriptures." themselves. "The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating."

I had all ready responded to Reuben who asked this same question.
---john9346 on 10/3/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Distrust propaganda, but hear testimony of first-hand witnesses - many, many people who have done business for Trump, didn't get paid (or were forced or coerced to accept pennies on the dollar), and then later complained about it. Trump himself BOASTS that it's an efficient way to do business, and has said he wants to handle the national debt the same way.

Hillary is condemned by Trump's words (which may be biased). Trump is condemned by his own words that he speaks out of his own mouth (which we can take at face value). He lies so often, he doesn't even know what's true anymore (e.g. in last Monday's debate, he said something, and less than an hour later, denied having ever said it!). Open YOUR eyes.
---StrongAxe on 10/3/16


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//what Donald Trump does with most of people he hires - they give him $10,000 worth of services according to contract, then pays them $2000 and says---StrongAxe

Stop reading the Democrats' talking points and open your eyes.

Walk off the Planation!

If you are happy with the 66 Book Bible Luther and the other deserters gave you, Okay it's a free Country.

Usually it is easier for Democrats to accept hand outs without any questions.
Republicans are usually more responsible and QUESTION everything.

Common Sense?

A Catholic Priest has 73 Book Bible.

Leaves the RCC and takes ONLY 66 books from the 73 Book Bible he originally had.

I pray none of you all work in the banking industry
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/3/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Focus Luther and Calvin both had the NERVE to have their NEW religion named after them!
They never intended to fix the problems, but wanted POWER themselves!


Did they name the religions themselves? Even Jesus didn't - "Christian" is what others called them. Also, how do YOU know Luther's motives?

Do you and StrongAxe understand Matt 23:1-3?

Jesus himself ignored that. He didn't stone the woman taken in adultery. He did many things the Pharisees objected to.
---StrongAxe on 10/3/16


//Luther wasn't the only one who rejected the apocrypha//

Focus Luther and Calvin both had the NERVE to have their NEW religion named after them!

They never intended to fix the problems, but wanted POWER themselves!

//read Luther's 95 Theses?---john9346

Yes. Do you and StrongAxe understand Matt 23:1-3?

John, answered my question. Where in the Bible states there is ONLY 66 books contained within itself?

//Yet the RCC would have us believe that we should ask the Papacy rather than the only source that Jesus trusted. ---Jerry6593

Cite from the Bible, Jesus stating your ONLY source is from your form of interpretation and NOT the Church given by Jesus.

Matthew 23:1-3 states as otherwise!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/3/16


Nicole said, "Nonsense! If he didn't he could convince them NOT to name the Church after him.
If he can convince them to only accept the 66 book Bible, SIR he can convince them DO ANYTHING!"

Nicole, Luther wasn't the only one who rejected the apocrypha. There were esteemed Roman Catholics who agreed with Luther because they all followed Jerome's Rules for classifying the apocrypha as not "Scripture."

Ma'am,the rcc itself states this to be fact.

You never answered my question have you read Luther's 95 Theses?
---john9346 on 10/3/16


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reuben states, "
A Presbyterian Pastor believes in infant baptizing based on sola scriptura and you my friend based on the same ground reject it. Who again is the Man of God?"

First, this is an assumption because have you ask every Presbyterian Pastor why they believe this practice?

Next, when we apply the standard you are using we find just as many disagreements among catholics such as Vatican 1 and 2, the Dual-Source Revelation, and the many popes who contradicted and killed each other.
---john9346 on 10/3/16


reuben ask, "Pls give book,chapter and verse that give you the lists of books that belong in the bible?"

Sir, first, i must ask have you taken the time to read the books that you would take issue with in "Scripture?"

The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating.
Remember, this is the teaching of Sola Scriptura.

Seems like you are attempting to argue canonicity for Sola Scriptura. Is this correct?
---john9346 on 10/3/16


john9346* Because the "Scriptures." themselves provide harmonious consistency to each other.

Pls give book,chapter and verse that give you the lists of books that belong in the bible?

In Heb 11:35 it reads,

" Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life. "

Here Paul is refering to 2 Maccabees chapter 7. But you do not have this book do you.

john9346* In regards to Tota Scriptura's Role, it instruct all who will take the time to read that this isn't a contradiction.

A Presbyterian Pastor believes in infant baptizing based on sola scriptura and you my friend based on the same ground reject it. Who again is the Man of God?
---Ruben on 10/3/16


Nicole_Lacey:

No. Being a Catholic Priests means you have to follow God's rules as they are determined by the Church, which means, in essence, the Church's rules. If the church itself makes mistakes interpreting God's rules, it can no longer be trusted as the arbiter of those rules - and this is exactly Luther's problem.

If I give you $10,000 with rules, you can't return $8,000 and say "I didn't like your rules attached to the $10,000" Ridiculous

(This is exactly what Donald Trump does with most of people he hires - they give him $10,000 worth of services according to contract, then pays them $2000 and says "I didn't like the work you did - so I'm not paying you any more".)
---StrongAxe on 10/3/16


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Luther, like millions of others, found that the RCC Papacy could not be trusted - only God can.

If you are a Christian, then Jesus should be your example in all things ecclesiastical. When asked a question, His answer was "What do the scriptures say?" When tempted by Satan, he replied "It is written".

Yet the RCC would have us believe that we should ask the Papacy rather than the only source that Jesus trusted.

Paul pointed to the Bereans as a good example because they tested his own words with OT Scripture.

Isaiah said: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." - Isa 8:20



---Jerry6593 on 10/3/16


//Luther followed the rules set before him regarding the books.//

He was a CATHOLIC PRIEST! Yes he had to follow God's rules!

So you ADMIT Luther had 73 Book Bible given to him by the RCC.

If I give you $10,000 with rules, you can't return $8,000 and say "I didn't like your rules attached to the $10,000" Ridiculous

Give chapter and verse saying the Bible only has 66 books!

Follow your Sola Scriptura RULE when you give me the answer.

//And Luther never wanted people to name themselves after him--john9346

Nonsense! If he didn't he could convince them NOT to name the Church after him.

If he can convince them to only accept the 66 book Bible, SIR he can convince them DO ANYTHING!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/2/16


Nicole said, "The NEW Church he started is called the Lutheran Church."

And Luther never wanted people to name themselves after him.

Remember, The definition of the reformation meant to recover that which had been loss. Luther understood this by reading the church fathers like Augustine.

If we are going to have a meaningful discussion/dialog, terminology/definitions are paramount.
---john9346 on 10/2/16


Reuben ask, "How can Sola Scriptura tells us the (66) books you have are listed in the Bible?"

Because the "Scriptures." themselves provide harmonious consistency to each other.

Reuben ask, "
How does Tota Scriptura tell us who is the Man of God and who isn't?"

In regards to Tota Scriptura's Role, it instruct all who will take the time to read that this isn't a contradiction. In other words, 1 Tim 3 defines who is and is not the man of God in the OT and in the NT.

Tota Scriptura helps us to understand that "Scripture Interprets Scripture." The "Scriptures." harmonize with each other.
---john9346 on 10/2/16


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john9346 * Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the 66 books of Scripture is the sole Infallible .

How can Sola Scriptura tells us the (66) books you have are listed in the Bible? Are you speaking of the Table of Contents? After all you mention this,

///Sola Scriptura deals with the origin of Scripture like its origination . ///

john9346 * Tota Scriptura is the teaching that everything contained in the 66 books of Scripture is "Theopneustos." meaning God-Breathe."

How can Tota Scriptura teach us that the 66 books you have are "Theopneustos", in 2 Tim 3:16-17 it reads " So the man of God is made fully equipped", How does Tota Scriptura tell us who is the Man of God and who isn't?
---Ruben on 10/2/16


Nicole:

"Luther as a Catholic Priest had the 73 book Bible,"

And you know this how? since Luther followed the rules set before him regarding the books.

Nicole ask, "Where in the Bible states there are only 66 books?"

The Scriptures themselves which provide harmonious consistency to each other.
---john9346 on 10/2/16


Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the final authority in all matters is the Bible.

It does not name the number of books in the Bible.

A Pope ordered the death of Martin Luther.

After they tried to murder him he felt he could no longer fellowship with them.

So he started a reformed church.

Since the Papal system did execute thousands of heretics I cannot accept those who did so as Christians. Since those who gave the order were the Popes of certain periods. The line of Apostolic succession was broken.

Unless you can show me that murdering Christians is in the will of GOD from the Bible. Those who follow GOD will love not murder. Read all of 1 John.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/1/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Yes with him NOT the Church.

That was my point - NOT the whole Church - the church is the body of ALL believers. This is just rejecting the unteachable members (which may include the heads of the church, but then again, that was the same case with the Pharisees in Jesus's day, who also included the High Priest).

Luther should have broken fellowship with the Priests/Bishops not the WHOLE CHURCH

He didn't. He didn't break fellowship with those who agreed with him.

Where in the Bible states there are only 66 books?

I was also going to ask him that very same question.
---StrongAxe on 10/1/16


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//you break fellowship with him.-StrongAxe

Yes with him NOT the Church.

Luther should have broken fellowship with the Priests/Bishops not the WHOLE CHURCH

//you are referring to Marcion not Martin Luther.//

Luther as a Catholic Priest had the 73 book Bible, not you. He is the LAST LINK.

//Luther wanted to reform to recover that which had been loss not to bring something new.//

The NEW Church he started is called the Lutheran Church.

//he was excommunicated.//

It occurred AFTER he started his own Church. The bull is display at Vatican.VA Date and all!

//Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the 66 books of Scripture--John

Where in the Bible states there are only 66 books?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/1/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Jesus disagrees with you!

Please re-read the step-by-step procedure for correcting errant brothers in Matthew 18. You speak to them alone. If that fails, you bring 2-3 other brothers. If that fails, you bring the elders. If that fails, you bring the matter before the whole church. If the brother STILL refuses to repent, you break fellowship with him.

This is the same, except the brothers in question are all members of the church hierarchy.

Matthew 23:2-3

Not how well the Apostles obeyed the Pharisees in Acts (NOT).
---StrongAxe on 10/1/16


Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the 66 books of Scripture is the sole Infallible Rule for Faith and Practice for Christians.

Tota Scriptura is the teaching that everything contained in the 66 books of Scripture is "Theopneustos." meaning God-Breathe. This teaching is essential because it protects against Heretical Teachings against Scripture such as the OT is of a lesser importance than the NT, Paul contradicts Jesus, and only Jesus's Words in the NT are, "Theopneustos."

This teaching is vital in assisting Biblical Christians in understanding that "Scripture." harmonize with each one.
---john9346 on 9/30/16


Nicole:

1. Luther wanted to reform to recover that which had been loss not to bring something new.

2. The popes wanted no discussion.

I'd suggest you take time to read the 95 Theses.

Like Strongaxe stated to you he never wanted to leave, but he was excommunicated.
---john9346 on 9/30/16


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Nicole states, "He chopped up the OT, and started teaching fault doctrines."

I believe, you are referring to Marcion not Martin Luther.
---john9346 on 9/30/16


//all Christians were right to break fellowship with it.//

Jesus disagrees with you!

Matthew 23:2-3
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees SIT in Moses seat. So you must be CAREFUL to do EVERYTHING they TELL you. But do NOT DO what they DO, for they do not practice what they preach

Jesus NEVER taught anyone to start another faith system just because the leaders are sinning!

//Luther TRIED to work within the church, but the church refused---StrongAxe

Because he had heresy doctrines! Luther wasn't happy trying to tell the other Priests to stop sinning.

He chopped up the OT, and started teaching fault doctrines

Jesus didn't even cut off his right hand.

ONLY Jesus can start the Church!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/30/16


Amen Strong ax. The RCC launched what is called the counter reformation to finally fix some of the problems. But it fell far short.

To be a true Bishop they must follow the Bible.
Titus 1:7-9 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God, not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre, But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate, Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/30/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Luther had legitimate complaints, which he brought before the church. What should have happened (per the standard Jesus established in Matthew 18) was that the church should have acknowledged its errors and corrected them. By not doing so, it was showing itself corrupt and unteachable - and by the same Matthew 18 standard, all Christians were right to break fellowship with it. This is same kind of inevitable schism as between Christians vs. Pharisees in the 1st century.

Luther TRIED to work within the church, but the church refused. Remember, "If your right hand offend thee, cut it off", and "Get thee out from among them"?
---StrongAxe on 9/30/16


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Sir, just read what you wrote.

Martin Luther was a Catholic Priest.
There wasn't anything wrong with his complaint or sins if the complaints/sins were true.

His sin was LEAVING Jesus' Church and starting his own church.

REALLY? What Ego. He isn't God!

And he isn't a REFORMER and there the reformation occurred by Catholic Saints who never LEFT the RCC.

Reformation means: the action or process of reforming an institution or practice--Online Dictionary.

I am bad with grammar, but you all are confused with word's meanings

If I want to reform my family's bad habits and sins, I CAN'T do that if I move out and start another family of my own.

How does that reform the family I left?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/30/16


Nicole states, "No they left because of sins committed which they were NOT allowed to leave the Church."

Ma'am, have you ever read Martin Luther's 95 Theses?

It explain fundamentally why there had to be a "Reformation."
---john9346 on 9/30/16


If you are a Christian, then Jesus should be your example in all things ecclesiastical. When asked a question, His answer was "What do the scriptures say?" When tempted by Satan, he replied "It is written".

Yet the RCC would have us believe that we should ask the Papacy rather than the only source that Jesus trusted.

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.



---Jerry6593 on 9/30/16


The problem with rejecting Sola Sciptura is that it allows the church to deny scripture.

1Timothy 3:1-17 ... A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach, Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous, One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity, (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/29/16


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//does not guarantee that every claim that the church makes with regards to being guided by the Holy Spirit is, in fact, correct.//

Yes EVERY Faith and Morals Claim!

//church leaders holding those same keys have made very un-inspired decisions//

Give an example.

//they had multiple popes who mutually excommunicated each other).//

Only The TRUE Pope excommunication took effect.

//The fact that such events could occur even once//

Thank God it has never occur or will it ever occur.

//Also, the Reformation was a reaction to other egregiously unscriptural practices.---StrongAxe

No they left because of sins committed which they were NOT allowed to leave the Church.

Matthew 23:3
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/29/16


Nicole_Lacey:

Yes, the Holy Spirit CAN guide the church. However, this does not guarantee that every claim that the church makes with regards to being guided by the Holy Spirit is, in fact, correct. Remember, you have frequently been quoting the passage where Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. However, there have been many times in Church history when church leaders holding those same keys have made very un-inspired decisions (e.g. times when they had multiple popes who mutually excommunicated each other). The fact that such events could occur even once indicates that there is no guarantee that the Holy Spirit is, in fact, always guiding. Also, the Reformation was a reaction to other egregiously unscriptural practices.
---StrongAxe on 9/29/16


luke ask, "Is Sola Scriptura a good way to find out if our interpretation of a passage correct? or do we interpret the passages anyway we want to?"

Sola Scriptura has nothing to do with "Interpretation." It is the teaching/understanding of the "Nature of Scripture." Sola Scriptura deals with the origin of Scripture like its origination .

The Doctrine of Tota Scriptura deals with "Scriptural Interpretation." not "Sola Scriptura."
---john9346 on 9/29/16


Nicole states, "Well Luke, as I see it there are over 60,000 Sola Scriptura Believing Denominations who DISAGREES with each other of the meaning of Scripture which causes them to split from each other."

And there are 242 Sola Ekklesia catholic churches that do not agree with each other.

There are popes that have contradicted each other.

There are Roman Catholics who accept and oppose Vatican 2.

Melkite Catholics reject "Papal Infallibility." Roman Catholics accept, "Papal Infallibility."

So, when we apply the standard both ways there are the same problems on both sides.
---john9346 on 9/29/16


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Well Luke, as I see it there are over 60,000 Sola Scriptura Believing Denominations who DISAGREES with each other of the meaning of Scripture which causes them to split from each other.

Oddly, they can only agree that Sola Scriptura is only way to interpret Scripture.

Which is strange to us Catholics.

Each one is allowed to interpret Scripture by the Grace of the Holy Spirit, but that same Holy Spirit is incapable of guiding the Church to interpret Scripture for the Faithful.

That doesn't make sense.

It's more likely the Holy Spirit guides the Church in interpreting Scripture for the Faithful to PREVENT multiple interpretation of the same Scripture.

God is the God of Order not the God of Chaos.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/29/16


"Is Sola Scriptura a good way to find out if our interpretation of a passage correct?" If there is a way, that would be it. To interpret scripture is to properly understand it, that understanding comes only via the word of God. Not through our efforts, or force of will, but through His Spirit. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures, and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope. Therefore it is for us to make every effort to present ourselves before the Father as proven workers who will not stand ashamed before Him, teaching the message of truth accurately, comparing the spiritual with the spiritual, after all, His words are spirit.
---Josef on 9/29/16


God's grace in us produces all He knows His word means.

"'So shall My word be that goes
. . . forth from My mouth,
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing
. . . for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

So, God's word "shall" do all which pleases Him. His word will not be limited to how we are able to understand Him.

Jesus in us is the Word. Jesus as our new inner Person (Galatians 4:19) is the living meaning of all God's love means by His word. We grow in this.

So, the way is Jesus!!!
---Bill on 9/29/16


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