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First Step Of Salavation

Who makes the first action to our salvation? Is it God, or is it fallen man? If God, post passages, if it is man, post passages.

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 ---Luke on 9/29/16
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Reuben,

Does not the "Scriptures." state believers and unbelievers??
---john9346 on 10/19/16

John Yes,

But a unbelievers do not need to(Eye) pluck it out and throw it away, nor to confess or abide in him and endure till the end!
---Ruben on 10/19/16


kathar states, "John, I've done even better ...I read Romans 9-11, as you sir should as well. Romans 9-11 is about ISRAEL, not the Church,"

As I stated prior, I will dialog on Rom 9 in context.

Paul disagrees with you that this is not referencing the church.

Rom 9:24.
---john9346 on 10/19/16


Kathr states, "Yes John, God did harden Pharoahs heart AFTER Pharoah hardened his own first,."

But Paul writing to the Roman church states, " For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."
---john9346 on 10/19/16


John, I've done even better ...I read Romans 9-11, as you sir should as well. Romans 9-11 is about ISRAEL, not the Church, and Gods promises to THEM, showing that they were not annulled. These promises are to the NATION ISRAEL, and not to the Church. It explains WHY some of the branches were broken off so YOU SIR, a Gentile, could be grafted in. Romans 10, again also about Israel, tells us why Israel stumbled. In the end John, all Israel SHALL BE saved. SHALL BE. INDIVIDUALS TODAY who have received Jesus Christ ARE ALREADY SAVED. And just as Israel was "delivered" from their enemies ( Pharoah= Gentile world power) will again see this deliver from Gentile world power= Beast. Zechariah 12-14, Isaiah 14, Revelation 12 to the end.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/16


Kathr,

Ma'am, read Rom 9 and I will be happy to dialog with you.

read the entire chapter and I will dialog in context with you on it.
---john9346 on 10/19/16




Reuben,

Does not the "Scriptures." state believers and unbelievers??
---john9346 on 10/19/16


john9346* In Matt 5:29 and Matt 6:13-15,

Explain who was Jesus addressing??

Jesus and scripture tells us,

Matt 5:1 " When he saw the crowds..

Matt 8:1 When Jesus came down from the mountains great crowds followed him"


john9346* If you forgive..
If you abide in him..
If you confess..
If you endure till the end.."

And who was the Lord Jesus Christ in each one of these verse you are referencing who was Jesus talking to?

Believers..
---Ruben on 10/19/16


John, here's what scripture tells us. God said to Abraham 400 years prior"I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you". This promise was regarding Abrahams descendants....re Israel. We see the first Pharoah where Joseph was sold, BLESSED JOSEPH, and God BLESSED that Pharoah and Egypt and Israel. But a NEW Pharoah rose up while Israel was still in the Land of the first Pharoah, and FORGOT and abused Israel. And we see God kept His word and CURSED that Pharoah, because of the hardness of his heart. It had nothing to do with ETERNAL SALVATION, as we see that those who left Egypt died in the wilderness and did not enter the Promise Land BY FAITH, representing salvation. Hebrews 3-4 will explain John.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/16


The sovereignty of God is simply that no one can come to the Father except through His Son, Jesus Christ. Man will be angry because they could not saved themselves by their own doctrines, or means. God has provided for EVERY SINNER, a Savior, Jesus Christ and He alone. Not Buddah, not Johathat Edrards OPINION WITHOUT SCRIPTURES.

Yes John, God did harden Pharoahs heart AFTER Pharoah hardened his own first, just as we see with Cain., who by the way was given a second chance to obey, but Cain made the choice not to. FREE CHOICE to obey is established right from the beginning.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/16


"The Sovereignty of God is the stumbling block on which thousands fall and perish, and if we go contending with God about His sovereignty it will be our eternal ruin. It is absolutely necessary that we should submit to God as an absolute sovereign, and the sovereign of our souls, as one who may have mercy on whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will." ~ Jonathan Edwards
---john9346 on 10/14/16

John, SCRIPTURE states that Jesus Christ and Him Crucified is that stumbling block. No scripture states what JE said. That is purely twisted doctrine. Where does scripture say Israel stumbled at God sovereignty that He preprogrammed them to reject Him? You need to reread Romans 10 and not mans words.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/16




Reuben,

In Matt 5:29 and Matt 6:13-15,

Explain who was Jesus addressing??

Reuben cites, "
If you forgive..
If you abide in him..
If you confess..
If you endure till the end.."

And who was the Lord Jesus Christ in each one of these verse you are referencing who was Jesus talking to?

---john9346 on 10/18/16



Nicole states, "***Note Jesus said you think that in Scriptures you have eternal life."

Ma'am, did you go on to read the entire verse?

Ma'am, did you go on to read to vs 47 Jesus explain what is going on.

One thing as I dialog with you and Reuben is the both of you never look at verses in there context or you both focus on half of a verse when the other half of a verse is self explainatory.

To ignore context is to establish confusion and misunderstanding which leads to false doctrine.
---john9346 on 10/18/16


john9346* Jesus doesn't cease being our saviour and stop loving his children because of sin

Mt5:29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away, it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell "

Mt 6:13-15 "but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

john9346* In salvation, Jesus becomes our saviour and loves us forever..

If you forgive..
If you abide in him..
If you confess..
If you endure till the end..
---Ruben on 10/18/16


Nicole, there is no scripture that says one must go to church first to be able to come to Christ. Actually many come to Christ first before ever stepping into a Church. If you perhaps would read the Book of Acts, or even follow the Apostles travels, you will see they went out into towns ans streets preaching the Gospel in places where there were no established churches. And just an FYI, Lydia's HOME was not the RCC, or any established demonization, but where those who had become saved then met.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/16


John 5:39-40 You STUDY the Scriptures diligently because you THINK that in them you have eternal life.

***Note Jesus said you think that in Scriptures you have eternal life.
Having a Bible will NOT grant you eternal life.

But having the Church WILL grant you eternal life.

V40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

You have to go to Church to come to Him. Baptism and the Holy Eucharist

The ONLY TWO things Jesus connects with Eternal Life

//He does not rebuke them for not turning to tradition or a church but the "Scriptures.---john9346

Yes He does. Reading isn't going to get you Baptist or receive Holy Communion. You have to put down the Bible and Act
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/17/16


Nicole said, "Your Passages proves my point!"

How so?

The Lord Jesus Christ rebuke these leaders for not understanding the "Scriptures."

He does not rebuke them for not turning to tradition or a church , but the "Scriptures."

Remember, context, context, context.
---john9346 on 10/17/16


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To be clear, I said Jesus NEVER said to read ONLY the Bible for eternal life.

//Have you not read Jn 5:39,//

Really?

Your Passages proves my point!

John 5:39 You STUDY the Scriptures diligently because you THINK that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
V40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Those Passages DESCRIBES YOU!

Jesus is in His Church for you to have eternal life

John 6:53-54
Jesus said to them, Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/17/16


reuben ask, "Why do you need to confess your sins if 'ALL' you need is to believe in Christ?"

Again,like stated, you are confusing sanctification and salvation.

Example, My mom is my mom and will always be,however, if I afend her she won't stop being my mom but because I love her and desire to make our relationship stronger I will apologize when I am wrong for afending her.

Jesus doesn't cease being our saviour and stop loving his children because of sin but in the process of sanctification we confess because we love him and desire deeper intimacy.

In salvation, Jesus becomes our saviour and loves us forever...
---john9346 on 10/17/16


Reuben,

First, the verse you reference is 1 Tim 4:16 not 6:17.

In context, Paul is encouraging Timothy a minister to teach "Right Doctrine)

He is encouraging Timothy to continue in the truth.

He is not addressing what we are discussing if anything this would be the process of sanctification if you read vs 1-15.

The context is "Doctrine." not salvation and sanctification.
---john9346 on 10/17/16


No sir and thanks for asking, Jn 19:30, declares to us that the Lord Jesus Christ completed "All-the-work." needed for salvation. This is why all one has to do is to believe on Christ because he completed everything for salvation.


---john9346 on 10/16/16

John,

You just said we have to confess your sins?

What happens if you do not?

Why do you need to confess your sins if 'ALL' you need is to believe in Christ?

1 Tim. 6:17 reads " Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine, continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

Here Paul tells us to 'Continuing in them, you will save yourself.
---Ruben on 10/17/16


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John, ask a Jew who has read the Passover recorded in the Gospels.

He will tell you Jesus DIDN'T finish the Passover because He didn't drink the 4th cup of wine which comes after a hymn.
Matthew 26:30 Mark 14:26

Christians explain He did drink the 4th cup but on the Cross.

John 20:29-30 There was a vessel filled with common WINE. So they put a sponge soaked in the WINE on a sprig of HYSSOP and put it up to his mouth. When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, "It is finished."

Where else is the word 'Hyssop' with wood? 1ST PASSOVER MEAL

..slaughter the Passover lamb. Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/16/16


Nicole:

"NEVER said by Jesus."

Have you not read Jn 5:39, Mk 7:13, and Lk 24:44-45?

"Luke 10:16 here Jesus DOESN'T say whoever READS about me."

Actually he does did you read on down to vs 24?

"NO WHERE in the BIBLE states FAITH ALONE except the opposite of what you said."

Have you not read Rom 3:10-28 and 5:1?"
---john9346 on 10/16/16


Nicole:

Ma'am, can you tell us all, did you read vs 14 before you got to vs 24??

Tell us all, what is the context starting in vs 14?
---john9346 on 10/16/16


Reuben ask, "
So John we can go on and sin and not worry about it, no need to confess our sins?
Is that what you are saying??"

No sir and thanks for asking, Jn 19:30, declares to us that the Lord Jesus Christ completed "All-the-work." needed for salvation. This is why all one has to do is to believe on Christ because he completed everything for salvation.

Your argument seems to be that of sanctification not salvation.

Some people twist these 2 categories they supplant sanctification for salvation and salvation for sanctification.
---john9346 on 10/16/16


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Nicole states, "As I said before and PROVED before you DO NOT know what you are talking about."

Ma'am, tell us all, when the Lord Jesus Christ uttered the words, "Tetelestai." meaning it is finished was he at the Passover Table or on the cross?

Please see Jn 1930
---john9346 on 10/16/16


//The Essentials of Christianity..
1. The bible//

NEVER said by Jesus.

He left us the Church not the Bible Matthew 16:13-19

Luke 10:16 here Jesus DOESN'T say whoever READS about me.

//5. Salvation by grace alone through faith alone.//

NO WHERE in the BIBLE states FAITH ALONE except the opposite of what you said.

James 2:24 See how a person is justified by WORKS and NOT by faith alone.

//If one denies 5 essentials--john9346

BTW, who are you to NAME the 5 essentials?

If there are only 5 then you named the wrong 5.

You left out 2 essentials: Baptism and the Eucharist

Which Jesus said HIMSELF is needed for Eternal life.

Mark 16:16 and John 6:47,51,54,57-58.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/16/16


Steveng states, "
God gives mankind the opportunity by hearing the Word first then for ourselves to take to believe the Word and then take the first step to recognize that we are sinners."

Sir, a dead person can not make choices...

A dead man can not reach out, if he is dead.

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,"

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,"

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)"

Eph 2:1, 4-5

---john9346 on 10/16/16


The Essentials of Christianity are the following:

1. The bible

2. The trinity.

3. The Deity of Christ.

4. The fall of man.

5. Salvation by grace alone through faith alone trusting in Christ alone.

If one denies either one of these 5 essentials they are presenting another Jesus and not the Jesus in the pages of the "Sacred Scriptures) the bible.
---john9346 on 10/16/16


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We are to submit to GOD. That is true. We choose to submit by the Holy Spirit. GOD convicts us and we choose.

What are the essentials is easy. 1John 3:24 1John 5:2,3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/15/16


I was responding to Reuben who raised an objection that man is saved apart from works.

Jn19:30 disprooves Reuben's Belief System.
---john9346 on 10/14/16

Really lets see,

Jesus said " It is Finish"

So John we can go on and sin and not worry about it, no need to confess our sins?

Is that what you are saying??

Rev. 2:25-26 only hold fast what you have, until I come. HE WHO CONQUERS AND WHO KEEPS MY WORKS until the end, I will give him power over the nations,

---Ruben on 10/15/16


//I was responding to Reuben who raised an objection that man is saved apart from works.

Jn19:30 disprooves Reuben's Belief System.---john9346 on 10/14/16

I know.
I also know you believe WRONGLY that John 19:30 disproves Reuben's belief System.

It doesn't!

The Gospel ISN'T according to John9346.

As I said before and PROVED before you DO NOT know what you are talking about.

Jesus is stating it is finished about the Passover BOTH literally and figuratively.

His Work is finished.
He trusted in His Father to RAISE Him from the Dead.

You still need to PICK YOUR CROSS and follow Jesus.

That takes WORK my Friend
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/15/16


Nicole,

Ma'am, the blog question ask who takes the first step in salvation.

I was responding to Reuben who raised an objection that man is saved apart from works.

Jn19:30 disprooves Reuben's Belief System.
---john9346 on 10/14/16


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"The Sovereignty of God is the stumbling block on which thousands fall and perish, and if we go contending with God about His sovereignty it will be our eternal ruin. It is absolutely necessary that we should submit to God as an absolute sovereign, and the sovereign of our souls, as one who may have mercy on whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will." ~ Jonathan Edwards
---john9346 on 10/14/16


Luke wrote: "You suggest it is man who takes the first step. How is that possible if he is in his sins?"

God gives mankind the opportunity by hearing the Word first then for ourselves to take to believe the Word and then take the first step to recognize that we are sinners.
---Steveng on 10/14/16


Reuben:

"who determines which are essentials and non-essentials?"

"The Scriptures."

"Please give the chapter, verse and book that tells us that these are essentials and these are not?


---john9346 on 10/14/16

If it is 'Scriptures" who determines what are the Essentials and what are not, then pls give me the chapter, book and page where it tells us 'What are the essentials and what are not essentials?
---Ruben on 10/15/16


//would say it is also nonessential because it was meant for the Jews who were under the law. Christians are not under the law but under grace.---Luke on 10/14/16

Why are you ALWAYS speaking against Jesus?

If Jesus is your Lord and Savior then you have to OBEY Him and STOP making excuses to do as you wish instead of Jesus' Commands.

Matthew 5:17-18

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have NOT come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/15/16


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Nicole, I would say it is also nonessential because it was meant for the Jews who were under the law. Christians are not under the law but under grace.
---Luke on 10/14/16


//do you understand the blog question and what is being discussed???? ---john9346 on 10/13/16

Yes, why are you confused?

Let me help you.


//Saturday Sabbath Worship is a nonessential, but teaching one that he or she can work to earn their salvations is an "Essential Doctrine." because it simply states that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't accomplish what he came to do on the cross.

Remember, the Lord jesus uttered the words, "Tetelestai." (it is finished) ---john9346 on 10/12/16//

Sir, do you remember now?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/14/16


Reuben:

First before responding to you Iwant to remind you of the following:

"Those who do not have good arguments or verses for their views. Often resort to juvenile remarks, snide comments and personal attacks."
---john9346 on 10/14/16


Reuben:

"who determines which are essentials and non-essentials?"

"The Scriptures."

"Please give the chapter, verse and book that tells us that these are essentials and these are not?"

Are you asking about the Sabbath or something else?

"Scripture tells us "For he will render to every man according to his works:" Romans 2:6."

Sir, tell us what is the context of this verse??
---john9346 on 10/14/16


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Reuben:

"who determines which are essentials and non-essentials?"

"The Scriptures."

"Please give the chapter, verse and book that tells us that these are essentials and these are not?"

Are you asking about the Sabbath or something else?

"Scripture tells us "For he will render to every man according to his works:" Romans 2:6."

Sir, tell us what is the context of this verse??
---john9346 on 10/14/16


Reuben states, "Samuel and his seven-day christians will tell you it is essential."

And your point??

Brendan and Cluny will tell you Papal Infallibility and the bodily assumption of Mary are "Bogus." so whose right the rcc or the Melkites and Eastern Orthodox?

Brendan also rejects the authority of the council of Trent whose right the rcc or the Melkites?
---john9346 on 10/14/16


Steveng, you state:
"Man takes the first step.

Sure, God gives every human an opportunity to repent, but is is man who takes the first step towards our salvation by acknowledging God and that we are sinners."


You suggest it is man who takes the first step. How is that possible if he is in his sins? He cannot get out of the hole he has dugged himself with. It takes an act of God for him to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. If the Lord does not help him, he remains lost forever, and heading for hell if God does not help him/her.
---Luke on 10/14/16


john9346* what you must understand is there are essentials and nonessentials.

who determines which are essentials and non-essentials? You!:)

john9346 * Saturday Sabbath Worship is a nonessential,

Samuel and his seven-day christians will tell you it is essential.

Please give the chapter, verse and book that tells us that these are essentials and these are not?

john9346* teaching one that he or she can work to earn their salvations

I will call that a false doctrine not a Essential Doctrine, just like teaching that works play no part in your Salvation is also false.

Scripture tells us "For he will render to every man according to his works:" Romans 2:6
---Ruben on 10/13/16


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Nicole:

Ma'am, Respectfully, do you understand the blog question and what is being discussed????
---john9346 on 10/13/16


Remember John, I am the one who gave that Passage?

He is on the cross drinking the 4th cup!

**John 19:30 When Jesus had taken the WINE, HE said, "It is finished."---Nicole_Lacey 10/12

You must know your Spiritual roots.

1. Jesus is Jewish.
2. Read Exodus 12
3. Jesus came NOT to be PASS so we can be SAVED!
4. Jesus is the LAMB of God.

John 1:29 John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, Look, the LAMB OF GOD, WHO takes AWAY THE SIN of the world.

He does this by dying on the cross.

But as a Perfect Jew, He finished the Seder meal as obedience to His Father.

The Whole Bible is our Salvation History.

You need to stop and study it instead of using it as a debate book.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/13/16


Nicole,

When the Lord Jesus Christ uttered the words, "Tetelestai." meaning it is finished he was on the cross not at a Jewish Passover...

Jn 19:30
---john9346 on 10/13/16


//Ma'am, I'd strongly suggest you please read this chapter before making statements ---john9346

Sir, I strongly suggest you find a Practicing Jewish Friend ask him or her for an invitation to a Seder Meal.

All Orthodox Jews who read the 3 Gospels' accounts of Jesus and the Disciples Passover meal have pointed out the incompletion of the Seder meal.

Better yet, join a True Seder Meal and watch for yourself.

BTW, they will be drinking Wine not grape juice.

1 Cor 15:14-19
And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is USELESS and so is YOUR FAITH...for if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has NOT BEEN RAISED, your FAITH is FUTILE, you are still in your sins.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/13/16


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nicole states, "He is talking about finishing the PASSOVER MEAL."

Ma'am, I'd strongly suggest you please read this chapter before making statements.
---john9346 on 10/12/16


Remember, the Lord jesus uttered the words, "Tetelestai." (it is finished)---john9346

He is talking about finishing the PASSOVER MEAL

He said that after drinking the 4th cup of wine.

John 19:30 When Jesus had taken the WINE, HE said, "It is finished."

Study the Seder/Passover Meal.

You MUST drink 4 cups of Wine at different stages of the meal to COMPLETE the Seder.

Ask any Jewish person, you MUST drink 4 cups of wine

Which the 4th cup COMES AFTER the last hymn.

Mark 14:26 and Matthew 26:30 are identical:

Then, AFTER singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

BTW, our SALVATION was depended on Jesus RISING from the Dead after dying. Acts 17:3
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/12/16


reuben states, "
Ok, but using scripture with scripture you believe,
Saturday is the day of worship!
John believes comparing scripture with scripture that works play no part in our salvation,
Who is really ///There must be a harmonizing of "Scripture with Scripture."///?"

Sir, what you must understand is there are essentials and nonessentials.

Saturday Sabbath Worship is a nonessential, but teaching one that he or she can work to earn their salvations is an "Essential Doctrine." because it simply states that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't accomplish what he came to do on the cross.

Remember, the Lord jesus uttered the words, "Tetelestai." (it is finished)
---john9346 on 10/12/16


Reuben,

In regards to working to earn ones salvation.

I like how Kathr stated on a prior blog:

"You are either IN HIM, OR IN YOUR own righteousness OUTSIDE OF CHRIST."

You see sir, there can be no in between.
---john9346 on 10/12/16


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samuel said, "Amen John. But many choose to only study those that agree with their ideas.
We need to compare scripture with scripture in context and time and who written too."

You are correct sir,

From Genesis to Revelation, God has always chosen 1 man, 1 woman, 1 people, and 1 nation toglorify himself.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ruth, Esther, Israel,
---john9346 on 10/12/16


Good question Ruben. You gave the example of I believe we should keep the Seventh day Sabbath. So what Scriptures back that up.

Genesis 2:1-3
Exodus 20:8-11
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The word Sabbath occurs 60 times in 55 verses in the New Testament.

There is no other day mentioned as a day of worship.

The first day of the week is mentioned 8 times. No mention as a day of worship. So where is the verses that say to not keep Sabbath?
---Samuelbb7 on 10/11/16


We need to compare scripture with scripture in context and time and who written too.

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/16

Ok, but using scripture with scripture you believe,

Saturday is the day of worship!

John believes comparing scripture with scripture that works play no part in our salvation,

Who is really ///There must be a harmonizing of "Scripture with Scripture."///?
---Ruben on 10/11/16


God made the first step--as well as second, third, and the rest of them--in our salvation, because He loved us and sent His Son, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ---Cluny on 10/6/16

Excellent Cluny!
---aservant on 10/8/16


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Amen John. But many choose to only study those that agree with their ideas.

We need to compare scripture with scripture in context and time and who written too.

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/16


God made the first step--as well as second, third, and the rest of them--in our salvation, because He loved us and sent His Son, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/6/16


Samuel,

I agree totally with you,however, I believe Theological Education is overly blamed.

One thing to look for in Theological Schools of thought is consistency what is truth must be taught from Genesis to Revelation. There must be a harmonizing of "Scripture with Scripture."

From Gen-revelation, God has always chosen a certain people or persons for his own good pleasure...
---john9346 on 10/4/16


steveng states, "
Man takes the first step."

Sir, can you from Gen-Revelation in context establish this claim from "Scripture."??

So, did Adam choose his own fall sir?
---john9346 on 10/4/16


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John when you reject Bible verses you reject the Word of GOD.

People can and do take them out of context or use theological schools of thought to change their meaning.

But the Holy Spirit will lead those who seek the truth to find it. True doctrine never contradicts the Bible.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/4/16


steveng: "For every verse there can be dozens of interpretations."

There are thousands of varieties of error, but only one truth. Unfortunately, many people are not interested in the truth, but rather justification of their own preconceived notions. Most concepts in the Bible may be discerned directly as read, as a child would do. More difficult passages should be studied by comparison with other scriptures from the entire Bible. And all Bible study should be preceded by prayer and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This done, there will be only one truth!



---Jerry6593 on 10/4/16


steveng states, "Forget about using verses. They can be misinterpreted by today's highly educated humans. Man takes verses and interpreted what he believes is truth. For every verse there can be dozens of interpretations."

But the HolySpirit writing through Paul the apostles states, "15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

So, the truth is knowable and can be ascertain.

Also, 2 Tim 3:15 and Acts 17:10-11 God's Truth is knowable.
---john9346 on 10/3/16


Forget about using verses. They can be misinterpreted by today's highly educated humans. Man takes verses and interpreted what he believes is truth. For every verse there can be dozens of interpretations. The bible, the words of God can only be interpreted in a spiritual manner. Reading the bible through the eyes of a child can one understand spiritual matters.

Man takes the first step.

Sure, God gives every human an opportunity to repent, but is is man who takes the first step towards our salvation by acknowledging God and that we are sinners.
---Steveng on 10/2/16


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samuelBB7 states, "If you could save one hundred people by cpr and have the power and time to do it But instead to only give cpr to some. Then you are choosing for them who will live and who will die.."

Tell us all, what does God owe mankind?
---john9346 on 10/2/16


samuelBB7 states, "But instead to only give cpr to some. Then you are choosing for them who will live and who will die."

But aren't they all ready dead?

Dead people cant make choices if they can then they are not dead. In other words, mankind is either dead in sin or alive in Christ, there is no "Neutral Ground."
---john9346 on 9/30/16


If you could save one hundred people by cpr and have the power and time to do it.

But instead to only give cpr to some. Then you are choosing for them who will live and who will die.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/30/16


samuelBB7 states, "But it does not say that GOD forces only some people to be saved."

Sir, if a man is dead and I perform CPr on him. How am I forcing my will on him.

Remember we were dead in our sins:




"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,"

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,"

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)"

Eph 2:1, 4-5

---john9346 on 9/30/16


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samuelBB7 states, "Because GOD has reached out to us and convicts us.
So GOD does the first action."

uried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
---john9346 on 9/30/16


Because GOD has reached out to us and convicts us.

So GOD does the first action.

But it does not say that GOD forces only some people to be saved.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/29/16


rita states, "God reaches out to us first so that we can reach out to Him."

How can a dead man reach out if he is dead.


"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,"

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,"

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)"

Eph 2:1, 4-5
---john9346 on 9/29/16


"Who makes the first action to our salvation?"--Luke on 9/29/16

Jesus said "no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: [He also said] that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." For me, that settles it. Jhn 6:44>Jhn 6:65
---josef on 9/29/16


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It is God my dear brother:

John 6

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
---john9346 on 9/29/16


God reaches out to us first so that we can reach out to Him. He does this via other human beings who have already reached out to Him and now follow Him completely. This can be via a sermon, an individual's testimony, something we just hear (which makes us want to hear more) and sets us about searching. When people tell how they were saved each story is different but all show that God drew them to Him (sometimes through hardship, bereavement, an inflicted hurt etc.) Sometimes it can just be by picking up a bible out of curiosity and then God shows the way from there.
---Rita_H on 9/29/16


God took the actions for our salvation before the foundation of the world.

Eph. 1:4 "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love"

Matt. 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

Rev 13:8 "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
---Mark_Eaton on 9/29/16


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