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Revealed Objective Truth

Is there such a thing as revealed objective truth that is always true, whether a person believes it or not?

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 ---Cluny on 10/5/16
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Good points Strong Ax.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/25/16


Samuelbb7:

I don't know about most, but it certainly happens with many. The problem is, when people have their own pet beliefs that dominate their thinking, making them more important than other things. For example, St. Augustine was a dissipate libertine until his conversion - after his conversion, he became the exact opposite, obsessing over his former sins.

The one thing I obsess over on here is whether certain doctrines are objectively taught by scripture, vs. subjective teachings of men read between the lines, e.g. "The Bible teaches XYZ" - "No, it doesn't", or "The Bible doesn't teach XYZ" - "Yes it does. Chapter:Verse". This is the obsession of the Bereans, whom Paul praised for it.
---StrongAxe on 10/23/16


I am sorry Strong Ax but it is true. Jerry does obsess and so do other SDA. The problem is we are supposed to be obsessed about JESUS. He is to be the center of all. But in discussions many concentrate more on winning then on listening and working to talk to others.

This happens to most people. Would you not agree?
---Samuelbb7 on 10/23/16


Jerry6593:

No, I'm not. Why is it that in almost every blog you comment on, you always steer the discussion towards one single point - that is, that we are all required to worship on the Sabbath? It's like you are obsessed with this one thing above all else. This seems common among Seventh Day Adventists, which is why they name their denomination from this one doctrine.

When any group obsesses about one particular doctrine, they spend less time on other more important ones (either in reality, or at least in the perceptions of others), e.g. how Jehovah's Witnesses obsess over blood transfusions, or the Saducees and the resurrection, which was used as a wedge between them and the Pharisees in the Sanhedrin.
---StrongAxe on 10/20/16


ax: Your arguments are getting silly. You argue against yourself.



---Jerry6593 on 10/20/16




Jerry6593:

You wrote: Mark 2:27

It doesn't in any way say WHICH men this refers to. It doesn't say "all men", or "men of israel". It just says "men". If we want to understand the provenance of the sabbath law, we must look elsewhere - e.g. to where it is given.

Ok. So it was a mixed multitide - Israel, and strangers who had attached themselves to Israel. The law elsewhere states that it applies to strangers living in Israel's midst, but nowhere does it state that it applies to strangers outside Israel.

In Christ there is no Jew or Greek - so it applies to all who want it.
---StrongAxe on 10/19/16


ax: "Oh? Where (chapter and verse, please)?"

Mark 2:27


"The commandments brought down from Mt. Sinai were for Israel."

And the mixed multitude (read your Bible). Check your Strong's Concordance for mixed multitude (that's where ereb comes from).

Incidentally, don't you realize that the New Covenant, to which you adhere, was also for the houses of Israel and Judah?



---Jerry6593 on 10/18/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: The Sabbath Law of the Fourth Commandment was written to all mankind, as Jesus attested.

Oh? Where (chapter and verse, please)?

It was instituted in Eden and repeated (REMEMBER) on Sinai.

The commandments brought down from Mt. Sinai were for Israel.

There were other than Jews in the wilderness (mixed multitude - Heb "ereb").

Oh? Who else? (and where do you see "ereb"? As far as I know, that means "evening").
---StrongAxe on 10/17/16


ax: "No, they were written by the Father."

1Co 10:2-4 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, And did all eat the same spiritual meat, And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was CHRIST.

The Father is not the Son (unless you're a Oneness Pentecostal).


"Notice that that particular law was ONLY given to the Jews - NOBODY else."

The Sabbath Law of the Fourth Commandment was written to all mankind, as Jesus attested. It was instituted in Eden and repeated (REMEMBER) on Sinai. There were other than Jews in the wilderness (mixed multitude - Heb "ereb").


---Jerry6593 on 10/17/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: You seem to think that the Ten Commandments were an invention of Moses. They were written by Jesus Himself - not by Moses.

No, they were written by the Father. The Son is not the Father (unless you're a Oneness Pentecostal).

They are eternal, and existed well before Moses - Just ask Cain or Abraham.

Some of them, not all of them.

One of those laws - the Sabbath - was given special instruction in the lesson of the manna BEFORE Sinai. If God rained manna from heaven, then just how could that be Moses' doing?

Notice that that particular law was ONLY given to the Jews - NOBODY else.
---StrongAxe on 10/16/16




Ax: "Who was the Law of Moses written to?"

You seem to think that the Ten Commandments were an invention of Moses. They were written by Jesus Himself - not by Moses. They are eternal, and existed well before Moses - Just ask Cain or Abraham. One of those laws - the Sabbath - was given special instruction in the lesson of the manna BEFORE Sinai. If God rained manna from heaven, then just how could that be Moses' doing?

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.



---Jerry6593 on 10/16/16


Strong ax we are under the New Covenant. But who is the New Covenant made with.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ephesians 2 says we are part of Israel.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/15/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: It seems to me that you provide your own "straw-men". You claim to believe that the OT (which includes the 10C Law) is the word of God while claiming authority to abrogate it.

Context, context, context! Who was the Law of Moses written to? Israel. There are specific rules that these laws were also to apply to foreigners living among them. Such a stipulation would not have been necessary, if those laws were ALREADY supposed to apply to foreigners everywhere.

We are not Jews. We are not under the covenant of Moses. (In fact, Paul specifically said that anyone who tries to justify himself under that covenant, and violates even the slightest point is guilty of all of it.)
---StrongAxe on 10/14/16


Axey: "3) I believe in the Old Testament (it is the Word of God)
4) I do NOT believe that we are required to keep the Law, because we under the new covenant (of Jesus), and not the old covenant (of Moses)."


It seems to me that you provide your own "straw-men". You claim to believe that the OT (which includes the 10C Law) is the word of God while claiming authority to abrogate it.

You also claim to be under the New Covenant (an OT concept - see Jer 31), which states that you have "the Law" written in your heart. Do you?

You appear to be a walking contradiction!



---Jerry6593 on 10/14/16


//Ask any clergy or churchgoer what the water was that flowed from Jesus's side on the cross. Most worshipers are vaguely aware/reminiscent of the event, let alone knowledgeable that it was representative of the LIVING water that we need to live in accordance with the Holy Spirit.---faithforfaith on 10/11/16

The RCC has always taught that the water represents Baptism.

Remember it was Blood and Water that flowed from His Side.

The Blood represents the Holy Eucharist and Water Baptism.

Which happens to be the only 2 criteria Jesus said is needed for Eternal Life

John 6:54 and Mark 16:16
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/13/16


The Lord wanted us to explore/ponder the significance and validity of "truth"? (why He included this in scripture). We have been taught many illogical things and still speculate to no end about what is written because we've made no progress in understanding after centuries of scholastic analysis.

Ask any clergy or churchgoer what the water was that flowed from Jesus's side on the cross. Most worshipers are vaguely aware/reminiscent of the event, let alone knowledgeable that it was representative of the LIVING water that we need to live in accordance with the Holy Spirit.

On earth (in humanity), "TRUTH" has little relevance/significance with how humanity operates (this is what we should understand).
---faithforfaith on 10/11/16


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God shares His very own love with us (Romans 5:5) so we can discover how He really is (1 John 4:17).
---Bill on 10/11/16


Pilate said "What is truth?" ---faithforfaith on 10/8/16

Joh 18:37 (JUB) Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I AM king. To this end I was born, and for this cause I came into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth hears my voice.

Joh 18:38 Pilate said unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and said unto them, I find no fault at all . . .

It seems that Pilate understood what Jesus was saying. Every one that is of the truth (i.e., belongs to me) hears my voice.
---aservant on 10/10/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: Axey: From your last post it appears that while you admit that the Old Testament exists, you don't believe that it is true, or that it is the word of God. Is that about right? Pity. Jesus believed it was true. He often cited it. He even wrote part of it.

Once again, you shove a straw man into my mouth and then set fire to it. Perhaps I should have qualified "belief" even more finely.
1) I believe in the Old Testament (it exists)
2) I believe in the Old Testament (it is true)
3) I believe in the Old Testament (it is the Word of God)
4) I do NOT believe that we are required to keep the Law, because we under the new covenant (of Jesus), and not the old covenant (of Moses).
---StrongAxe on 10/10/16


Axey: From your last post it appears that while you admit that the Old Testament exists, you don't believe that it is true, or that it is the word of God. Is that about right? Pity. Jesus believed it was true. He often cited it. He even wrote part of it.



---Jerry6593 on 10/10/16


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Jerry6593:

You wrote: Unfortunately, many Christians (unlike Jesus) disbelieve the Old Testament. Pity.

It is important to qualify what "believe" means, because it can mean different things.
For example, I don't believe in Santa Claus (because I am sure he doesn't exist).
I DO believe in Communism (because I believe it exists) but I also DON'T believe in Communism (because I disagree with its teachings).
Also, many Christians belive in the Law (i.e. that it exist), but don't believe in it (because it doesn't apply to them, as it was given to the Jews alone.)

W. C. Fields made a joke about these two meanings. "Every man needs something to believe in. I believe I'll have another drink."
---StrongAxe on 10/9/16


"Is there such a thing as revealed objective truth that is always true, whether a person believes it or not?"

Yes! It is called the Bible - Both Old and New Testaments. Unfortunately, many Christians (unlike Jesus) disbelieve the Old Testament. Pity.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.



---Jerry6593 on 10/9/16


faithforfaith:

You wrote: I have revealed many things that have intentionally never been taught.

If it has never been taught, how do you know it is true? If something is in scripture, Everyone who believes in the authority of scripture (and who has read the scriptures) has seen it.
---StrongAxe on 10/8/16


All objective and universal truth/information leads to (results in) JESUS.

In humanity, 'TRUTH' is simply a CONCEPT (as if we can actually possess/know perfect information (we CAN know what we BELIEVE to be perfect info).....so, on earth, PHILOSOPHICALLY, there can only be real truth.


Pilate said "What is truth?"

The Lord made sure that what we need to be aware of is in scripture.
---faithforfaith on 10/8/16


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OBJECTIVE truth is straightforward, blunt, and unkind to the status quo traditional teachings. The objective truth is usually rejected by mainstream believers because it is contrary to the traditional teachings that have been accepted and approved for centuries (many things that I have written are rejected as subversive, silly, and nonsensical).

I have revealed many things that have intentionally never been taught. The real truth of the message as written in scripture is considered irrelevant and unfitting for all who sit in the pews because the clergy's goal is simply to get your money in the collection basket (good and bad pastors still have to pay bills). Most clergy have good intentions and do not know of the lies being taught.
---faithforfaith on 10/7/16


Yes!

If we accept 2+2 is 4 and NEVER 3 or 5, we can proclaim that Jesus has Objective Truth since He is Truth itself.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/6/16


The real truth is Jesus (John 14:6) and how God has us doing His word (Isaiah 55:11), better than we can understand and explain (c:
---Bill on 10/6/16


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