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Ten Commandments Destroyed

Which (if any) of the Ten Commandments have been destroyed?

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 ---Jerry6593 on 10/9/16
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Samuelbb7:

Adultery is violating a marriage covenant. If you love your neighbor, you won't violate his covenant, nor that of your spouse. This means you won't commit adultery - it doesn't mean adultery, as a concept, is obsolete.

The Sabbath law doesn't really fit either of the two commandments. Jesus himself said that man wasn't made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man. It was made to give us the freedom to rest from our work - not a club to whack us when we do.


Jerry6593:

Jesus was preaching to JEWS who were under the law. We are NOT. Why do you turn EVERY blog you chat with on here into an argument about one thing alone - the Sabbath law?
---StrongAxe on 11/6/16


True Strong Ax those who love their neighbor will refrain from breaking the last six of the Ten Commandments. That is why we don't break them. Romans 3:20 says the law tells us what is sin.

Well Moses Berg says love means there is no such thing as adultery. Is he correct?

Also since you agree that love leads to keeping the last six.

Should not love of GOD lead to keeping the first four?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/5/16


ax: Too bad there isn't an Olympic event for Mental Gymnastics - you'd take the gold.

Point 1: Appealing to Jesus' Two love laws as justification for breaking the Ten Commandment Law is a lame cop out. He never said that these two supplanted or replaced the Ten - He said that they summarized them (Mat 22:40).

Point 2: All Ten Commandments were in place well before Sinai. This is particularly true of the Sabbath Commandment, as God Himself indicated (Exo 20:11). They are still in place as indicated by the originals still being in heaven and Isaiah's claim that the Sabbath will be in force in the New Earth (Isa 66:23).

Why do you think that disobedience is a virtue pleasing to God?


---Jerry6593 on 11/6/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: "Thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc." does indeed apply to you as well as all mankind whether you want to admit it or not.

You obviously have not been listening to anything I have said, because I have said this again and again:

Anyone who obeys the TWO LAWS Jesus said were the most important (i.e. love God and love your neighbor) ALREADY refrains from murder, adultery, perjury, etc. without needing to be given a laundry list of "thou shalt nots".

Also, murder and several other things were ALREADY wrong for everyone (e.g. Cain murdering Abel) LONG BEFORE Moses went up Mount Sinai.
---StrongAxe on 11/5/16


ax: So the Law - all of it - is still in force, but does not apply to you? You sound like Obama or the Clintons. I've got news for you, "Thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc." does indeed apply to you as well as all mankind whether you want to admit it or not. You are not above God that you can nullify His Law at will!



---Jerry6593 on 11/5/16




But StrongAx Paul directly tells the law is established. Romans 3:31 and he directly states five of the Ten Commandments. In Romans 13 and Ephesians.

True the law doesn't save. The purpose of the law is to define sin. If the law is done away with there is no sin. So we are no longer sinners. That is no one on earth is a sinner. So all are saved. Universal salvation.

reread Romans 3 and see that we are sinners. So the law must be in place.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/4/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: ax: Answer the question directly and quit tap-dancing. Is the Sabbath Commandment destroyed or not?

I have said this again and again. The Sabbath Commandment is NOT destroyed. There. Can is that plain enough?

I have said that we, as Christians, aren't obliged to keep it, because it is part of the Law, and we are no longer under the Law. That doesn't mean it's destroyed.

If it is, then why aren't the other nine?

As I have said repeatedly that we no longer need to be told to obey the other nine because, if we obey the Two, we are ALREADY obeying the other nine without needing to be told.
---StrongAxe on 11/4/16


ax: Answer the question directly and quit tap-dancing. Is the Sabbath Commandment destroyed or not? If it is, then why aren't the other nine? I'm sorry if this subject causes you discomfort, but willful disobedience to God is a serious matter.



---Jerry6593 on 11/4/16


Matthew 5:18 until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Colossians 2:22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. (But not God's word.)

Matthew 15:6 and Mark 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
---mike4879 on 11/3/16


Jerry6593:

YOU are the one who keeps asking about the Sabbath commandment on almost every blog you post on here, even most of which are dedicated to totally different topics. YOU are the one who keeps insisting that some laws were nailed to the cross, while others weren't.

I, in turn, asked you about incest, in a reductio ad absurdum example to see just WHICH laws you believe were done away with, and WHY you think the Sabbath commandment is still binding. By asking me yet again about the Sabbath commandment you are just avoiding the question and turning this into a circular logic loop. I have told you again and again why I do not believe it is binding on US.
---StrongAxe on 11/3/16




I follow God's law to the best of my ability because they are based on love and I want to show my love for him and the rest of the world, because of what He has done for me in Jesus.

It does not make me righteous. Christ did that for me.
---JackB on 11/3/16


ax: "Was that law nailed to the cross or not?"

Was the Sabbath Commandment nailed to the cross? No? Then why don't you keep it?



---Jerry6593 on 11/3/16


the Ten Commndments have to do with two things.

. . . Calvin stated it well in his institutes . . . ---Samuelbb7 on 11/1/16


Love God
have no other gods
have no carved images
do not speak Lord's name in vain
keep Sabbath holy

Love Neighbors
honor father and mother
do not murder
do not commit adultery
do not steal
do not lie
do not covet

The Bible does not need Calvin to speak for it. God knows what He is saying. The Great commandment is the summation of Commandments 1 -> 4. The 2nd Great Commandment is the summation of Commandments 6 -> 10.

Rom 13:10 . . . Love therefore is the whole law. (Darby)
---aservant on 11/2/16


The ordinaces that are not based on the Ten Commndments have to do with two things. One the running of the Government of Israel. The law penalties for stealing etc. Those were legal statues for the country.

Second the laws about the sanctuary and offerings. Those laws pointed directly to Jesus. They show us what was the duty of the High Priest which is now Jesus. They showed about the sacrifices. But there are no more earthly sacrifices since Jesus died on the cross for us and became our savior.

I didn't invent this Calvin stated it well in his institutes on why the Ten Commandments are for Christians.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/1/16


Steveng:

So I will ask again - is incest now allowed, or is it forbidden - and why is it allowed or forbidden? It's not part of the Ten Commandments. Was that law nailed to the cross or not?
---StrongAxe on 10/31/16


ax: "As I asked Jerry"

And I answered you. You must have forgotten.

Your concept of grace is called by another name - PRESUMPTION.



---Jerry6593 on 11/1/16


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Take a couple of weeks to figure that out. ---Steveng on 10/31/16

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, . . . Love the Lord thy God . . .
Mat 22:39 . . . love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Love God . . . Love neighbor are the "nails" upon which the Law and the Prophet's teachings hang.

Pull Love out of the wall and the plaques of Law or Prophets will fall. IOW, all Law, ordinances, and statutes were always about Love.
---aservant on 11/1/16


aservent I have read a number of Bible commentators who say that is the meaning. But most Bibles don't translate it that way.

We must remember what Paul said about the Law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Many ignore these Scriptures.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/1/16


StrongAxe wrote: "As I asked Jerry, just which "ordinances" are those, exactly?"

Simple answer: what ordinances are not part of the ten commandments? The ultimate law is "love" (as in the verb form) which hangs the two commandments which hang the ten commandments which hang the all the laws of the prophets which hang the 613 laws of Moses. Take a couple of weeks to figure that out.
---Steveng on 10/31/16


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

(CEV) God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.
---aservant on 10/31/16


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Steveng, Mercy means not giving us what we deserve, and holds back on judgment, while grace gives pardon. Mercy withholds God's wrath.
In His grace He gives us salvation. So with mercy He withholds Judgment, while grace releases His forgiveness.
Something to think about at your home service.
Also, there was nothing nailed to the cross but a sign that read, King of the Jews.
---Luke on 10/31/16


Steveng:

You wrote: By the way, it was the "ordinances" that was nailed to his cross, not the ten commandments.

As I asked Jerry, just which "ordinances" are those, exactly? Can you be specific? Is incest now allowed? Because it was part of the Levitical "ordinances", but not part of the Ten Commandments.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/16


. . . I don't think that grace excuses sin. ---Jerry6593 on 10/30/16

Grace was never about excusing sin. Sin has to be erased by blood being shed. Jesus did that for all humans. But in practical application, the reprobate, the UNcalled, the UNelected, the UNchosen, the UNsanctified, the UNreserved, the ordained to condemnation, and the vessels made unto dishonor are ALL rejected by God, and are NOT SAVED. Thus, they've not been given His Grace (favor).

Example: A man paid for the shots and fees so 30 dogs in a pound, scheduled to be euthanized, were eligible for adoption. 10 are adopted (saved - chosen - favored). 20 are not adopted (not saved = euthanized).
---aservant on 10/31/16


What part of "If ye love me, keep my commandments" don't you understand?

It's also apparent that many do not know the meanings of "grace," "fulfill," "law," "ordinances," "commandments," "salvation," "mercy," "church," and especially "gospel."

By the way, it was the "ordinances" that was nailed to his cross, not the ten commandments.
---Steveng on 10/30/16


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servant: While I agree that works can never earn salvation, I don't think that grace excuses sin. And since sin is abhorrent to God, and since it is defined as transgression of the law, anyone who claims to love God should accept His grace to overcome sin, and thus keep His Commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.



---Jerry6593 on 10/30/16


Well everyone has published true statements. But have missed some points.

1. The law brings death. Because we are sinners. The problem is with us not the law. It is good, holy. Romans 7,12 But all have sinned. Romans 3.

2. We cannot be saved by the law. No one has been saved by the law ever. To be saved by the law you would have to had never sinned. The Grace of GOD alone saves. Always has and always will.

3. Grace comes by the death of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus Christ.

4. Those who follow Jesus will live in love. Which leads to not breaking the commandments. Romans 6,7 and 13.

John Wesley, Martin Luther and Calvin taught we are to obey the Ten Commandments. Fact.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/30/16


But there is now no condemnation for us who are in Christ Jesus. ---StrongAxe on 10/29/16

I believe this is StrongAxe's point: OT Law -> NT Grace

Galatians 5:4

(ERV) If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is finished--you have left God's grace.

(GNB) Those of you who try to be put right with God by obeying the Law have cut yourselves off from Christ. You are outside God's grace.

(GW) Those of you who try to earn God's approval by obeying his laws have been cut off from Christ. You have fallen out of God's favor.
---aservant on 10/29/16


Jerry6593:

aservant's scriptures are about whether God's word still stands (it does), but have nothing to say about whether we are still under it, so it's irrelevant for or against the point I am trying to make.

Then you CAN'T be under the New Covenant, because that covenant is made with the Jews and involves God's LAW being written on the heart. Pity.

Paul said that the law is death - because there are so many rules that NOBODY can possibly obey them all. Whether they're written on paper, or on your heart, if you can't obey them, what's the difference? You're still condemned by them. But there is now no condemnation for us who are in Christ Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 10/29/16


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Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If one obeys God, then Spiritually, he is a Jew.
---aservant on 10/29/16


servant: Thanks for the scriptures. Maybe you can explain it to the Axster. I'm not getting through.



ax: "The Law is in force, but it doesn't apply to ME because I am not a Jew"

Then you CAN'T be under the New Covenant, because that covenant is made with the Jews and involves God's LAW being written on the heart. Pity.


---Jerry6593 on 10/29/16


They will never be destroyed.

Isa 40:8 . . . the word of our God shall stand for ever.

1Pe 1:23 . . . the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ps 111:7 . . . all his commandments are sure.
Ps 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever . . .
---aservant on 10/28/16


Jerry6593:

No, I don't. You don't seem to understand the concept of CONTEXT.

The Law is in force, but it doesn't apply to ME because I am not a Jew, nor do I live under the jurisdiction of a Jewish theocracy.

Even incest is prohibited by the prohibition of adultery.

No, it's not. Adultery is a married woman having relations with a man who is not her husband. A widowed father and his daughter (for example) isn't adultery. Leviticus forbids it. 10C doesn't.

Only Levitical Law is temporary, having been fulfilled at the cross.

"Levitical law" is all of Leviticus. But show chapter and verse where ceremonial law is abolished BUT civil and health are still in effect.
---StrongAxe on 10/28/16


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Actually none of the law was destroyed.

The laws of the Sanctuary and the service there are over since there is no longer an earthly sanctuary. These are the Ceremonial laws that pointed to the first coming of Jesus.

The Moral laws based on the law of love and as shown from the Ten Commandments are still in effect. Martin Luther, John Wesley and Calvin all taught this is true.

The law does not save. It defines sin. We are not to live in sin. Romans 3, 6 and 7 shown this as well as I john.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/28/16


ax: "You ask which of the Ten Commandments were destroyed. I say none"

You continue to argue with yourself. You can't continue to believe that all TEN are still in force while believing NONE (or even one) are applicable to you.

All sin is covered by transgression of the Ten Commandments - the Moral Law. Even incest is prohibited by the prohibition of adultery. But, there are three other categories of Law in the Bible - Civil Law, Health Law, and Levitical (sacrificial) Law. Only Levitical Law is temporary, having been fulfilled at the cross.


riolion: The Old Covenant was the agreement to abide by the 10C, just as is the New Covenant - "I will write MY LAW in their hearts".


---Jerry6593 on 10/28/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: The Bible does not mention 613 commandments, it mentions Ten

So Leviticus was just a book of optional suggestions?

You are referring to the handwriting of ordinances which were nailed to the cross.

Please show (chapter and verse) just which parts of Leviticus were nailed to the cross, and which are still in force. I ask this a second time, because there are many parts of Leviticus that Law-keeping Christians today still obey (e.g. prohibitions against incest), which are not part of the Ten Commandments.

You ask which of the Ten Commandments were destroyed. I say none, but ask which parts of Leviticus were destroyed.
---StrongAxe on 10/27/16


None of the 10 commandments has been destroyed. But you really need to ask what of any of them are still applicable.

Exodus 34:28 identified the 10 commandments as being the OLD COVENANT. And Hebrews 8:13 tells us that the Old Covenant became obsolete.

Only the modern day Judaizers demand observance of all the commandments. We are not under the law but under grace as all the law does is to identify sin.
---riolion on 10/27/16


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ax: "You mean all 613 commandments? No. Do you?"

The Bible does not mention 613 commandments, it mentions Ten, as:

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

You are referring to the handwriting of ordinances which were nailed to the cross. The Ten Commandments are "God's Law" which are still in force despite your antinomianism.


---Jerry6593 on 10/27/16


mike, thank you for your brotherly love. There are many that have the same brotherly love in this website.
---Luke on 10/25/16


Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The main laws on which the 613 are based on the Ten. When you love GOD and keep the Ten you will keep most of the 613. Except the ones about the Sanctuary, Law codes of Israel about punishment and sanitation.

Love fulfills the law. Not by saying don't keep it. But by loving others. Read Romans 6,7
---Samuelbb7 on 10/25/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: Notice that the NEW COVENANT which you claim is for THE JEWS which you disdain...

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? When have I EVER "disdained" the Jews? All I have said is that we Christians are not Jews.

Do you have His Law in your heart? If not, you're not under the New Covenant.

You mean all 613 commandments? No. Do you?

Also, please explain why new converts were only required to abstain from fornication, blood, things strangled, and meat sacrificed to idols - they were not told to obey the 613 commandments of the law, nor the Ten Commandments either. Why was that? Were the Apostles apostate?
---StrongAxe on 10/25/16


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ax: "We Christians are NOT under that covenant, but under a NEW covenant."

Do you mean this covenant?

Heb 8:8,10 ... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of ISRAEL and with the house of JUDAH: ... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts:


Notice that the NEW COVENANT which you claim is for THE JEWS which you disdain, and God makes no change in His Law - only He writes it in the heart. Do you have His Law in your heart? If not, you're not under the New Covenant.


---Jerry6593 on 10/25/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: Jesus said that the Commandments do indeed apply (at least "while heaven and earth remain"). ... The laws that Paul said no longer apply are circumcision, ritual sacrifices and feast days - not the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments were given to the JEWS, under the covenant established through Moses. We Christians are NOT under that covenant, but under a NEW covenant. Yes, that law still applies - to Jews, but NOT us.

We no longer need specific laws about murder, adultery, etc. because anyone who obeys the Two Laws ALREADY refrains from those without needing to be told. And please show where Paul distinguishes WHICH laws we are except from vs. those we must still keep.
---StrongAxe on 10/24/16


to luke

Hi luke remember me? mikehow? I just wanted to tell you that YOU ARE A self righteous HYPOCRITE, expert in quoting verses. (MANHOLE!) & YOU ARE NOT A Christian bec. you don't deny yourself, not run another mile for your brethren. I bet that when someone tells you to obey you will assert you American individualism (manhole!)
---mike on 10/24/16


Jerry, do you actually think that "keeping the Sabbath holy" means going to church on that day?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/16


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ax: "One cannot disobey a rule that does not apply."

Jesus said that the Commandments do indeed apply (at least "while heaven and earth remain"). The "Law" is even still a part of the New Covenant as stated by Jeremiah and quoted by Paul. Do you really believe that the laws about murder, theft, adultery, etc. don't apply to you? Or do you claim the authority to pick and choose the ones you want to obey? The laws that Paul said no longer apply are circumcision, ritual sacrifices and feast days - not the Ten Commandments.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



---Jerry6593 on 10/24/16


//As for the saturday / sabbath debate consider this:

"God blessed the seventh day (not a thousand years or a million years as some christians believe, but one twenty-four hour period), and sanctified it..."//

As another Christians, HOW do you know that?

//The fourth commandment has the word "remember" before it: Remember the Sabbath day---Steveng on 10/23/16

You mean the 3rd commandment don't you?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/16


As for the saturday / sabbath debate consider this:

"God blessed the seventh day (not a thousand years or a million years as some christians believe, but one twenty-four hour period), and sanctified it..."

Over time, man's heart grew cold and forgot the words, the laws, God put into their hearts. God chose Moses to bring the ten commandments to the people. The fourth commandment has the word "remember" before it: Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy. For six days you shall labor and do all your work - the same how God worked six days and rested on the seventh day.
---Steveng on 10/23/16


Jerry6593:

Yes, but what, exactly, does "holy" mean in this context? Strict biblical definition please (chapter and verse).

They are not eternal because they are in the Ten Commandments. They are in the Ten Commandments because they were eternal FIRST. I NEVER said I want to abolish ANYTHING, just we, under the New Covenant, are not under commandments of the Old. One cannot disobey a rule that does not apply. We have simpler and better rules (i.e. love God and neighbor) - which Jesus said encompasses ALL of the Law and the Prophets.

Also, why do you obsess so over the Sabbath law? Paul has said that some hold some days as more holy, and all hold all equally holy - that EACH should be persuaded IN HIS OWN MIND.
---StrongAxe on 10/23/16


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ax: "neither response was posted"

Yeh, I've experienced the same thing. It's the nature of the beast.

You have admitted that some of the Ten Commandments are eternal, but are determined to abolish the 4th. Why? God was very precise in defining which day of the week is holy, but you can't bring yourself to submit to His will on this subject. Why not? How is your life made better by disobedience?


---Jerry6593 on 10/23/16


Well James we have 9/10 agreement. I can appreciate that.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luke 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Colossians 2:16,17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Notice it says not judge not to not keep. Also days. Not day.

Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is in memory of creation.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/22/16


Why of course all 10 are still in effect. For each commandment shows our love to God or others.

But the 4th Commandment no longer deals with a certain day but instead with the Finish Works of Christ Jesus, John 19:30. For by His offering we are perfected forever Hebrews 10:14.

For Jesus Himself commands us to take His Rest upon us in Matthew 11:28-30, for He is also the Lord of the Sabbath, Matthew 12:8. Paul said that the Sabbath was but a shadow of Christ, Colossian 2:16-17.

And lest we forget as God commanded us to keep the Sabbath in Genesis 2:3, so He tells us that we are to Rest in the Christ for this is how we enter into God's Rest by trusting in the finished work of Christ, Hebrews 4:9-10.
---Jamea7799 on 10/22/16


Jerry6593:

I have tried to reply to your last comment twice in the past few days, and neither response was posted, so I'm going to give up on this particular blog, as there's no point in beating my head against a cyber-wall.
---StrongAxe on 10/21/16


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ax: "In the very next verse, Paul switches from Christ to God. Why the change?"

Duh! Didn't you know that Christ is God as is the Father?


"Note that laws against murder, theft, etc. were universal, and in effect long before Moses."

Yes indeed! As was the Sabbath Commandment. Why can't you accept that?

The "law of Moses" is the first five books of the Bible. What you are alluding to is the "handwriting of ordinances" which was written on PARCHMENT and placed BESIDE the Ark of the Covenant - later nailed to the Cross. The Law of God in contradistinction was written on STONE and placed INSIDE the Ark. Don't confuse them!


---Jerry6593 on 10/18/16


Jerry6593:

You wrote: 1Co 10:2-4 ...

In the very next verse, Paul switches from Christ to God. Why the change?

...you believe that Paul (contrary to Jesus' Command) exempted you from the penalty associated with murder, adultery, theft, etc.? Do you recommend that everyone commit these sins...

No. The Law of Moses is 613 commandments. We are not under those. Are you? Note that laws against murder, theft, etc. were universal, and in effect long before Moses. These are also under the Two Commandments that Jesus emphasized - to love God, and to love your neighbor. Anyone who obeys these two ALREADY refrains from idolatry, murder, etc. WITHOUT needing to be given 10 or 613 additional commandments to do so.
---StrongAxe on 10/17/16


ax: "1) Jesus did not write the Ten Commandments. The Father did.

1Co 10:2-4 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, And did all eat the same spiritual meat, And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was CHRIST.


2) They are still in force, to those to whom they were given.

3) I am not abrogating the law. I am not under it, as Paul has said.

So, are we to understand that you believe that Paul (contrary to Jesus' Command) exempted you from the penalty associated with murder, adultery, theft, etc.? Do you recommend that everyone commit these sins to show their independence from God's Law?


---Jerry6593 on 10/17/16


Jerry6593:

I said "words", not "BUT wordS". We say "The Word of God", but never say "that is BUT a word of God".

*I* am not under the covenant of Moses, so *I* am not required to obey it. The Jews who are under it are absolutely required to obey it.

1) Jesus did not write the Ten Commandments. The Father did.

2) They are still in force, to those to whom they were given.

3) I am not abrogating the law. I am not under it, as Paul has said.
---StrongAxe on 10/16/16


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Ax: "Once again, you attack words you read between the lines. When have I said they are suggestions?"

You have alleged that the Ten Commandments are but ten "words", and that you need not obey them. Have you not?

You need to answer the following questions honestly for yourself.

(1) Was Jesus actually commanding obedience to the 10C when He wrote them, or was He just doodling words on some stone?

(2) Did He change His mind later so that they are no longer in force?

(3) Does a mere mortal like yourself have the authority to abrogate God's Law on his own?


---Jerry6593 on 10/16/16


Steven I wish I could disagree with you. Many who say they follow Jesus don't love.

Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Love is the basis of right and wrong. It is the basis of the Ten words.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/15/16


Jerry6593:

The primary meaning of "dabar" is word, or thing. "word" can sometimes be interpreted idiomatically as "commandment" (just as when we say "Word of God", "word" has a stronger meaning than normal), but that isn't main meaning, just as "right hand" can mean a person, even though "hand" itself doesn't.

You would give the meaning as "oh, by the way", but in context, "Thou shalt not" is a COMMANDMENT - not as a suggestion made in passing.

Once again, you attack words you read between the lines. When have I said they are suggestions?
---StrongAxe on 10/14/16


Love (as in the verb form) is the ultimate commandment which hangs the two commandments which hang the ten commandments which hangs the 613 commandments.

Unfortunately, love has practically evaporated from the world, especially by denominational christians.
---Steveng on 10/14/16


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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Sadly, many think that the word "fulfill" means "destroy".

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.




---Jerry6593 on 10/15/16


Strongaxe, of course they knew which was the first commandment and which was the six Commandment, by the order they were given to Moses. He knew which was given first, second and so on. It was the chapters and verses that were written later on for the study of Scripture for the individual. Before, only the priest had a Bible.
---Luke on 10/14/16


Axster: "(Actually, the Hebrew is "ten words", not "ten commandments")."


Not to quibble, but the Bible says:

Exo 34:28 ... And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the TEN commandments.

You take unwarranted license in your declaration that the Hebrew means ten "words". The Hebrew word translated "commandments" is "dabar" which has a broad spectrum of meanings such as "matter, task, cause, word, commandment, etc.". You would give the meaning as "oh, by the way", but in context, "Thou shalt not" is a COMMANDMENT - not as a suggestion made in passing.



---Jerry6593 on 10/14/16


none of the Ten Words(thank you strong ax) are destroyed.

Fulfilled means made complete not destroyed.

What does made complete mean. Matthew 5 is a sermon on that topic.

Romans 13:8,9 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Here are five of the Ten words. Ephesians 6:2 has honoring parents.

So on what basis would any be done away with? Since the first one deal with love of GOD?
---Samuelbb7 on 10/12/16


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//(Actually, the Hebrew is "ten words", not "ten commandments")--StrongAxe on 10/11/16

THANKS

I learned something today.

I looked up the ten words and found some interesting information.

One site even suggested that the word 'commandment' shouldn't be used because it seems as if the other 603 Commandments should not be obeyed.

Many claim that BOTH Catholics and Protestants' numbering/wording are different from the Hebrew.

A good article:

'Hebrew Root'
The Root of Our Faith/The Ten Words:
The Foundation of the Torah

by Michael Bugg
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/12/16


Take The Lord at His word (if you dare have true faith....a "faith for faith" Romans 6:17?).

Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances,


Heb 2:14 that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
Heb 8:13 he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
---faithforfaith on 10/11/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: StrongAxe, they were separated a CERTAIN until the 16th Century when Protestants moved them around.

What Catholics or Protestants choose to do with the numbering is irrelevant, as the numbering was NOT part of the original scripture itself - they were interpolated later to make studying scriptures easier.

The number 10 is in the body of the Bible.

Yes, but nowhere does it say which number specifically applies to which commandment. Comments like "That violates the sixth commandment" are a purely modern invention. (Actually, the Hebrew is "ten words", not "ten commandments").
---StrongAxe on 10/11/16


not destroyed, but fulfilled

How much do we give attention to our Two Love Commandments - - versus attention to arguing and pointing at others?
---Bill on 10/11/16


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StrongAxe, they were separated a CERTAIN until the 16th Century when Protestants moved them around.

Catholics and Orthodox Monks COPIED the 10 Commandments as the Jewish people received them from God through Moses.

God gave them many commands.
But all the commands are related to the Big 10 Commandments.

Tradition has it that 5 Commandments per tablet was written out.

The number 10 is in the body of the Bible.

Deut 10:2-4 I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. Then you are to put them in the ark...and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands. The LORD wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the TEN COMMANDMENTS he had proclaimed..
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/10/16


Jerry6593:

This sounds like a typical "baiting question", designed to provoke argument, rather than elicit genuine discussion.

In answer: NONE of them. Those commandments were given to the Jews, and Jesus said he came not to abolish the law - if you are Jewish, you are still obliged to keep all of it. However, WE are not under the old covenant. WE are under the new covenant of love. WE are not obliged to keep the law.


Nicole_Lacey wrote: Like moving things around.

The original scriptures had no verse numbers. All verse numbering and separating the text into separate discrete commandments (whether Catholic or Protestant) was subjective and done much later.


aservant: well said!
---StrongAxe on 10/10/16


\\ Beats talking about some Catholic-turned-Orthodox Greek gobbledygook.\\

I have no idea what you mean by that Jerry.

Do you? If so please explain.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/10/16


Did you all add words to the 10 Commandments?

All I know of is when you all separating and combining the Commandments.

Like moving things around.

No destroying occurred.

All the words are the same including the 3rd (4th) Commandment of keeping the Sabbath Day Holy.

The word 'Saturday' isn't in that Commandment.

God knew what He was doing when He said Sabbath and Not Saturday.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/10/16


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Which of the Ten Commandments have been destroyed? --- Jerry6593 on 10/9/16

They will never be destroyed.

Isa 40:8 . . . the word of our God shall stand for ever.

1Pe 1:23 . . . the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ps 111:7 . . . all his commandments are sure.
Ps 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever . . .


OT Commandments and statutes (in the Pentateuch) will be used to convict those who DO NOT rely on Christ as the only Way to salvation.

NT two Greatest Commandments (Mt 22:36-40) will be used to prove the innocence of those who DO rely on Christ as the only Way to salvation.
---aservant on 10/10/16


Cluny: "Going to talk about the Saturday Sabbath for a change, Jerry?"

That's one of them Cluny. Beats talking about some Catholic-turned-Orthodox Greek gobbledygook.

Glory to Jesus Christ, author of ALL Ten Commandments!



---Jerry_Milam on 10/10/16


Going to talk about the Saturday Sabbath for a change, Jerry?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/9/16


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