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Not Saved Comment

'Once Saved always Saved' Protestants are sincerely happy when someone is Saved.

Yet, after a certain sin, they pronounce he isn't TRULY Saved

How can they be so confident of Salvation when the 'Sinner's Prayer' is said?

How can one make a pronouncement of another NOT being Saved?

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 ---Nicole_Lacey on 10/16/16
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david ask, "Show me another teacher in the Bible who taught Grace is unmerited. For that matter, show us in the foundation of salvation, the gospels of Jesus Christ, where Jesus taught about unmerited Grace."

Well sir, the person you just quoted, "Paul."

Lets go back to Rom 11:5-7 did you read what Paul stated?

Also, Eph 2:1-9?

Jn 3:3-8?

Jn 6:37-45 and 65?

Gen 50:20

Gen 27 and 28chapters.
---john9346 on 10/31/16


Grace is "Unmeritted." and the law of Moses is meritted.

---john9346 on 10/31/16

John, please pay attention. The law was never MERITED FAVOR FOR SALVATION. For the Law could never save anyone. It pointed to sin. SO to use these two examples as opposites in proving unmerited favor, you have again lost the argument. Keeping the Law never MERITED anything, because scripture tells us NO ONE COULD KEEP THE LAW. If they could, then we would all be meriting favor under the Law. We see the Pharisees as even Paul UNDER THE LAW, thought himself BLAMELESS, never once said he merited favor or salvation. He shows in Phil 3 just how WRONG he was. He REJECTED JESUS CHRIST as all perfect law keeping Pharisees did.
---kathr453 on 10/31/16


Aservant, you misquoted Luke by not posting his whole sentence, and then took off rambling In a totally different direction. Luke stated you cannot know for sure SOMEONE ELSES salvation. He said nothing about not knowing your own. There seems to be a problem here with some who don't take the time to thoroughly read and understand someone's post, and then makes false accusations. This too is why these same folks claim others are not answering their questions...it's because these same folks aren't taking the time to THOROUGHLY READ what someone is saying.
---kathr4454 on 10/31/16


Nicole, no one knows who is saved and who is not. ---Luke on 10/31/16

Not true.

One MUST have the Holy Spirit to be saved - Rom 8:9. Rather quickly after being given the Holy Spirit - Jn 14:16-17, the new recipient will perform at least one - (Acts 2:4, 10:44-46, Mat 3:16-4:11) of the 9 Spiritual gifts - 1Cor 12:7-11. This is how God publicly shows that He has accepted you into Spiritual Marriage with Himself - Rom 7:4. It is a consumation of the Spiritual marriage, where Jesus leaves a part of Himself inside His new Wife, just as does a human husband.

Luke, ask the Lord to tell you all things He wants you to repent of. Obey Him fully. Then ask Him to give you the Holy Spirit.
---aservant on 10/31/16


Nicole, no one knows who is saved and who is not. A person only knows his salvation not another. When a person is saved he is saved forever. God gives us the Holy Spirit is our guarantee in our hearts.
"Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee." 1 Cor. 1:21,22.
Once God saves someone, that person is forever saved. Jesus tells us He will never leave us, He also says He will never lose one of us, that no one can snatch us out of His hands. He is God so He is always correct, for He is righteous and Holy and without error.
---Luke on 10/31/16




Kathr and david,

I think we are talking pass each other so please pay attention.

So let me try this again

Grace is "Unmeritted." and the law of Moses is meritted.

Both of you are using "Numerous Verses.", but you all are not dealing with the verses in context.


That is not how you read to understand the "Scriptures."

If you continue to do so, you are going to remain in confusion about what is grace and what is the law.
---john9346 on 10/31/16


David,

1. James is stating that works is a result of faith not because of faith see 2:14-26 he clears up what he means.

2. Noah responded after God warned him this preceeded his faith and him working. Note, this is an example of "Grace."

"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith." Heb 11:7
Note, "being divinely warned

Note, "moved with godly fear,
---john9346 on 10/31/16


For everyone here seeking the truth:

Note, how I asked Kathr to address verses in context and she responded by citing more verses that if you read in the same chapter the author explains his meaning. The meaning doesn't contradict the Biblical Meaning which is "Unmeritted."

She has been asked to do so "Several Times."


Kathr,

I want to remind you of the following:




"Those who do not have good arguments or verses for their views. Often resort to juvenile remarks, snide comments and personal attacks."
---john9346 on 10/31/16


The Biblical Definition of grace from Gen-Rev is "God's (Unmerited.) complete Activity towards man."
---john9346


John
Let's go back to Genesis as you suggest. Noah is an example in the New Testament, of someone saved by Grace.

God told Noah to build an Ark because he was going to flood the Earth. Noah built the Ark because he had faith in Gods word. Now if Noah had not combined his faith with works, and built the Ark as God commanded, his faith would have been worthless. Worthless because Noah and his family would have drowned without works.

So as you can see in this illustration, James is telling us the truth in (James 2:20). Coincidentally, this same illustration is used in (Hebrews 11:7).
---David on 10/30/16


I read a lot I agree with. We should never judge the salvation of others. But we can say their actions are wrong. We can also disagree with their teaching. But GOD alone is the judge. Never us.

But a true Christian will be known.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world,

In Matthew 25 it speaks of those who say they are Christians yet are false. That is decided by GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/30/16




There is a difference between being gracious, and the Biblical definition of being Saved by GRACE, "Gods Riches At Christ's Expense"

If all it took was Gods Graciousness, then there would be no need for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And NO sin is forgiven apart from the Blood of Jesus Christ. For God so Loved the world HE GAVE His only begotten Son.....HE GAVE is yes, an act of graciousness of love towards SINNERS that man could be reconciled to God. Yes God is LOVE, and that Love is a gracious love towards sinners, and cannot be separated from the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVNESS OF SIN. For if Jesus had not risen from the dead, YOU would still be in your sin. Grace is the CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/16


Grace

OT Heb Dictionary

H2580

khane
From H2603, graciousness, that is, subjectively (kindness, favor) or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.


NT Gr Dictionary

G5485

charis
khar'-ece
From G5463, graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete, literal, figurative or spiritual, especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life, including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
---aservant on 10/29/16


Gods activity towards men is that He sent HIS SON, to reconcile man back to God. And HOW God is doing this, is ALL BECAUSE JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN for the forgivness of sin. And WHOSOEVER BELIEVES , that is Jew and Gentile alike, are first Justified by HIS BLOOD, and then saved by His Life, that is His RISEN LIFE.

The full and COMPLETE definition of being saved by Grace, is that we are saved by Jesus death and resurrection.

Calvinism jumps over and around THE CROSS, and has no understanding of the CROSS, as John's continual arguing here only prove that point.

OT looked forward to the CROSS John, just as Abel's sacrifice demonstrated. He believed Genesis 3:15.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/16


The Biblical Definition of grace from Gen-Rev is "God's (Unmerited.) complete Activity towards man."
---john9346 on 10/28/16


John, if you read deeper, in Galatians, Philippians 3 Romans 6 and Colossians ...all chapters of Colossians, you will see the CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT is the CROSS. AKA GRACE. :
1)The fellowship of His Suffering
2) being made conformable to His death
3) Baptized into His Death
4) Crucified with Christ
5) the Power of His Resurrection
6) made the CROSS of no effect
7) enemies of the CROSS
8) the CROSS IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION.

Just to point out a few. John, this knowledge comes by having a personal relationship with the Lord. You should understand the CONTEXT if you are truly saved.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/16


For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised, only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Paul preach the CROSS, aka "By Grace through Faith" The Gospel,of Grace IS THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS.
---kathr453 on 10/29/16


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Sir, in context, Rom 11:6 what is Paul's Point??---john9346

John
You're not making Paul's point, you're twisting his teachings so they say what you want them to say. I don't expect you to believe me, so I will let you prove it to yourself.

In (2 Corinthians 13:1) Paul says, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."
Show me another teacher in the Bible who taught Grace is unmerited. For that matter, show us in the foundation of salvation, the gospels of Jesus Christ, where Jesus taught about unmerited Grace.

Now challenge me with the same, and I will give you more than three witnesses and one will include Jesus Christ.
---David on 10/29/16


Kathr states, "
So this GRACE you seem to believe is Gods good humorous of some sort of unmerited favor is not found in scripture. If one CAN fall from GRACE, then one is not living in obedience of that faith."

Once again, "Context, context, context."

Paul is rebuking the Galatians because they confused the law with grace.

In other words, they didn't understand "Grace." see, Gal 3.

They tried to merite according to the law salvation.

In
---john9346 on 10/28/16


Kathr,

Tell us all, what is the context of Phil 3, Col 1, and Rom 16?

did the a'am, have you read
You also didn't answer my question Did you read about Cain and Abel in context in Gen 4??
---john9346 on 10/28/16


david states, "John
In understanding (Romans 11:6) It's important to know the difference between the Law of Moses, and the Law of Christ.

Sir, in context, Rom 11:6 what is Paul's Point??


5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
s no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Under grace, we cant merite anything.
---john9346 on 10/28/16


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Galatians 5:4

(ASV) Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law, ye are fallen away from grace.

(BBE) You are cut off from Christ, you who would have righteousness by the law, you are turned away from grace.

(ERV) If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is finished--you have left God's grace.

(GNB) Those of you who try to be put right with God by obeying the Law have cut yourselves off from Christ. You are outside God's grace.

(GW) Those of you who try to earn God's approval by obeying his laws have been cut off from Christ. You have fallen out of God's favor.
---aservant on 10/28/16


John, I absolutely do know what the Calvin doctrine teach. In Romans 16.., the Gospel according g to the MYSTERY is not some mystery that God picks who He wants to save. The Mystery is Christ in you, re Colossians 1:24-27. The WAY Christ comes to be IN YOU, is to OBEY Romans 6-8, Philippians 3 and Galatians 2:20-21. And to FALL FROM GRACE, is to fall away from the teachings and obedience to the CROSS and go live under the works of the Law, just as Galatians teaches.

So this GRACE you seem to believe is Gods good humorous of some sort of unmerited favor is not found in scripture. If one CAN fall from GRACE, then one is not living in obedience of that faith.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16


John
In understanding (Romans 11:6) It's important to know the difference between the Law of Moses, and the Law of Christ. I'm sure you know the difference is "Love".

Those under the Law of Moses were commanded to keep the Law. They did not try to keep the Law because they loved God, they did it for fear of punishment. Keeping this Law did not draw them closer to God.

Under the Law of Christ, if God commands you through his Holy Spirit to give someone aid, do you not find yourself feeling love for the people you help?
Now if you feel love, are you not keeping the Law of Christ?
---David on 10/28/16


Kathr states, "Also John you have twisted this verse. WORKS here mean WORKS OF THE LAW."

Well lets see how Paul answers your objection:


5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Note, "Election of grace."

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
s no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Note, vs 7
---john9346 on 10/27/16


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Kathr,

I challenge you to address verses in there "Context."

I say this because in Rom 16:25-27 Paul opens with these words, "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ," He clearly defines that it is "God." who does this not man...

Ma'am, have you read about Cainand Abel in context in Gen 4??
---john9346 on 10/27/16


Also Kathr,

With much respect to you from prior blogs, you do not, "understand." what "Calvinists." believe and teach.

I note this based upon your own statements.

To be genuine and to establish credibility learn a "Belief System." before disagreeing with it.
---john9346 on 10/27/16


6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Rom 11:6
---john9346 on 10/27/16

Also John you have twisted this verse. WORKS here mean WORKS OF THE LAW. And scripture states the law is not of FAITH. Nowhere is faith considered WORKS, except in the false doctrine of Calvinism. Our faith is in Jesus Christ finished works whereby a sinner is saved. So how can one be saving themself who believes JESUS SAVES?

For one to save themself, one would have to put faith in their own blood, and die for their own sin...which is IMPOSSIBLE.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16


John that is not the definition of GRACE. It is only the Calvinist definition. The word UNMERITED FAVOR is not in scripture. Now let's look at Abel's salvation. The word GRACE or your definition does not apply. Abel MERITED FAVOR by obeying the will of God by offering a blood sacrifice, admitting and acknowledging he was a sinner. God made him a heir of the righteousness that was BY FAITH, (no mention of GRACE here,...Hebrews 11). Cain was given a second chance to do so, but refused. Today, JESUS IS THAT BLOOD SACRIFICE, and we put our faith in His Blood, being Jesuified by His Blood, and then SAVED BY HIS LIFE. This is the NT way of Salvation. Obedience of Faith, as Romans 16:25-27 clearly state.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16


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Kathr states, "John, GRACE in the NT means the crucified and risen Christ...."

The BiblicalDefinition of grace from Gen-Rev is "God's (Unmerited.) complete Activity towards man."

Gal 2 Phil 3 and Rom 6 must be understood in context in relation to the Biblical Definition.

Now if mankind can save his or herself then is "Grace." unmerited??

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Rom 11:6
---john9346 on 10/27/16


david ask, "John
In the above verse, what comes first, your obedience to Jesus Christ, or Gods love for you?"

God's Love for us.

remember, they all ready knew him.

Prior verses tell usvs that vs 8-11.

Also remember they are sad because Jesus is getting ready to die and he is comforting them.

Grace is God's Unmerited complete activity towards man.
---john9346 on 10/27/16


Without grace there is no faith nor salvation.

That is what Paul is teaching the Ephesians see 1-9 for full context.
---john9346 on 10/26/16

John, GRACE in the NT means the crucified and risen Christ....just as Paul further explains in Galatians 2:20-21. And we also see in Galatians those who FELL FROM GRACE, that is the teaching of abiding in the doctrine of Jesus Death and resurrection as our walk...Romans 6-8. Calvinists totally corrupt the meaning of NT GRACE to mean Gods good humor of picking and choosing. That is not what Paul,is teaching in Ephesians vs 1-9 or any of Ephesians. We today are saved by Jesus death and resurrection life in us....AKA GRACE....also read Philippians 3.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16


Without grace there is no faith nor salvation.---john9346 on 10/26/16

(John 14:23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John
In the above verse, what comes first, your obedience to Jesus Christ, or Gods love for you?
---David on 10/27/16


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---Mark_Eaton on 10/26/16

Again, we are NOT saying the same thing. Ask God to help you rightly divide His Word.

Some sinners NEVER have a chance to be saved. These Scriptures use the word "reprobate": Jer 6:30, Rom 1:28, 2Tim 3:8, Tit 1:16.

reprobate = predestined to damnation: rejected of God and without hope of salvation

Other men were created to be judged and punished. Hab 1:12

Other men were created to be ORDAINED to Hell. Jd 1:4

Mat 1:21 . . . he shall save HIS people from their sins.

Jesus did not come to save everybody, just those the Father gives Him - Jn 6:44, 65.
---aservant on 10/27/16


samuelBB7 states, "Also that GOD loves everyone in the world. John 3:16."

The word, "World." doesn't mean every singgle person in usage.

Also,there is a requirement in Jn 3:16 individuals must believe and everyone doesn'tbelieve.
---john9346 on 10/26/16


//statement above is something you made up. When a Christian falls into sin in a Protestant church, they are not said to be " not saved",//

I use to Church Hop
Assembly of God, Baptists of varies types, Church of Christ, Church of God, and many more.

//out of Gods will, or back slides, and then measures are taken by the church to RESTORE that person back into the will of God.//

Those are only the ones who DON'T believe in Once Saved always Saved.

For those who believe in Once Saved always Saved are the ones I am speaking about above.

//Why do you lie here---kathr4453

If you had READ the whole statement you wouldn't accuse me of lying.

Read the whole blog before going on the attack.
---Nicole_lacey on 10/26/16


david states, "
Most doctrines give half teachings of Paul, and this is a perfect example. They teach we are saved by Grace, but completely sidestep the through faith part."

Without grace there is no faith nor salvation.

That is what Paul is teaching the Ephesians see 1-9 for full context.
---john9346 on 10/26/16


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samuelBB7 states, "Incorrect Aservent. Humans have free will to reject Jesus Christ as their savior."

Samuel, if someone is dead how can they make a choice?

Only alive people make choices not dead people.

See, Eph 2:1-9 Rom 3:10-18 to know what is the "State of Mankind beofre God."
---john9346 on 10/26/16


IOW, ALL MEN will be saved. Not True!
---aservant on 10/25/16

Again, your words not mine. I do not believe all men will be saved. I believe all men CAN be saved.

And my words are not my own, they are Scripture. I gave them to you on a previous post. There are many more.

God wants no person to perish, so he predestined us ALL to adoption thru the sacrifice of Jesus. Or, as you use IOW, God purchased us ALL by the sacrifice of Jesus for the purpose of adoption.

I think we saying the same thing.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/26/16


Actually Nicole, your statement above is something you made up. When a Christian falls into sin in a Protestant church, they are not said to be " not saved", they are said to be out of Gods will, or back slides, and then measures are taken by the church to RESTORE that person back into the will of God.

Why do you lie here? If perhaps you are referring to some particular demonization that you HEARD says that, then that is entirely different than saying Protestants. WHO SPECIFICALLY IS THEY?
---kathr4453 on 10/26/16


You seem to explain faith as the epistle of James.
"Not Faith Alone." James 2:24--Nicole


Actually I was attempting to show, Grace comes by works of faith in the Son of God, as Christ taught in (John 14:21). Just as James was teaching Abraham was justified by his works of faith in God the Father, in (James 2:21)..

In short,
We are sanctified through the blood of Christ, and justified by our works of faith in Christ. (2 Timothy 2:21)
What are works of faith in Christ?
Many misconstrue the obedience mentioned in (John 14:21) as the law of Moses. In actuality, Jesus is speaking about the good works he commands of us, those acts of Love towards one another.
---David on 10/26/16


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#1 "God has already predestined ALL men to adoption in Christ"

God predestined before the world began that the entire world throughout all of history would be adopted unto himself.

#2 No, sadly not all will be adopted. ---Mark_Eaton on 10/25/16



Sorry Mark, we are NOT saying the same thing.

I said, "Just because I purchased all slaves does not mean that all will be adopted and live in my house."

You said the entire world throughout all of history are predestined to be adopted, (IOW, ALL MEN will be saved). Not True!

And, though you said #1, you concluded by stating #2, which is a contradiction.
---aservant on 10/25/16


Just because I purchased all slaves does not mean that all will be adopted and live in my house.
---aservant on 10/24/16

Thank you for saying the same thing I have been saying. Look again at the statement to which you objected:

"God has already predestined ALL men to adoption in Christ"

God predestined before the world began that the entire world throughout all of history would be adopted unto himself.

But, will we all be adopted?

No, sadly not all will be adopted.

Matt. 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it"
---Mark_Eaton on 10/25/16


//Did you also agree with my assessment of James and Paul's teachings on 10/22? In it I was trying to show you how the two work together. ---David

YES, if I understood you correctly.

You seem to explain faith as the epistle of James.

"Not Faith Alone." James 2:24

//If we are saved by Grace through Faith, doesn't this prove, the Faith by which we are saved has value? And according to James, doesn't the value come, by deeds?---David 10/22/16

It's like a Medical License that allows one to practice medicine.

But, it took several year by work, study and planning to get to have that license.

The Physician STILL continue to certify oneself while practicing to KEEP his license until retirement.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/25/16


Nicole
Did you also agree with my assessment of James and Paul's teachings on 10/22? In it I was trying to show you how the two work together.
---David on 10/25/16


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---Mark_Eaton on 10/22/16

1Jn 2:2 propitiationG2434 = atonement

Rom 5:18 = in God's court, Jesus' death suffices to save every human. Just because I purchased all slaves does not mean that all will be adopted and live in my house. Just those I call, elect, choose, and sanctify.

Mt 7:21 (GNB) "Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do.
---aservant on 10/24/16


Also that GOD loves everyone in the world. John 3:16
---Samuelbb7 on 10/22/16


Loving the world is quite different than loving everyone in the world.

Hos 9:15 . . . I hated them

Rom 9:13 . . . Esau have I hated.
---aservant on 10/24/16


//With the above acception, I agree with the rest of your statement.
If we are saved by Grace through faith, how can Grace not be part of salvation? Are we not saved through the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? (Acts 15:11)

Or am I taking your statement out of context?---David on 10/24/16

No, you are SPOT ON!

EXCELLENT.

GRACE is the ultimate Salvation
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/24/16


You better learn the truth.
---aservant on 10/22/16

Perhaps, but please explain who is affected in these verses:

1 John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world"

Rom 5:18 "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men"

1 Tim 2:3-4 "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"

Heb 2:9 "...Jesus...so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone
---Mark_Eaton on 10/24/16


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Grace is not part of salvation.---Steveng on 10/23/16

Steven
With the above acception, I agree with the rest of your statement.
If we are saved by Grace through faith, how can Grace not be part of salvation? Are we not saved through the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? (Acts 15:11)

Or am I taking your statement out of context?
---David on 10/24/16


Many of you think too logically, too worldly, as to define "free will." "Free will" simply means freedom of choice as written in the old hebrew language. The english language has reached one million words in 2010, most having multiple meanings and many having opposite or derogatory meanings. This is the reason why we have so many interpretations of the bible. The hebrew language is full of analogies, similes and parables that humans today greatly miss the meanings. The prophets of old try to describe things and events in the last days the best they can. Humans today having a vast array of words and meanings, try to describe what the people of old were trying to describe.
---Steveng on 10/23/16


We are given free will by GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/23/15


Free (no cost, no punishment) will does not exist regarding behavior. There is no will of man that God cannot overcome - see Pharaoh. God punishes evil behavior - it is not "free".

Freewill in the Bible is mentioned 17 times: each mention is regarding offerings.

The 10 commandments (not suggestions), and yoking oneself to Jesus (Mt 11:19) do not pose visions of free (no cost, no punishment) behavior. Being yoked to Jesus is a Spiritual lease to control our behavior.

OSAS
Salvation is a gift - Eph 2:8-9.

Rom 11:29 (EMTV) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
---aservant on 10/23/16


Grace is not part of salvation.

God is graceful, he is merciful to give all men (and for you politically correct people, women, too) an opportunity to return to "the Garden of Eden." By salvation, God is choosing people to populate the soon to come Kingdom of God. He has plans for people who believe in Jesus, plans for those don't, but do good, and those who don't do either which is the second death.

The Kingdom of God is the gospel, the good news, and God is judging who can and cannot populate the new heaven and the new earth.

---Steveng on 10/23/16


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Incorrect Aservent. Humans have free will to reject Jesus Christ as their savior.

True those who are followers of GOD will produce good fruit.

But remember the shallow soil with rocs. They sprang up as Christians but fell away.

Read Matthew 25 many who claimed to be saved will be lost.

I don't believe osas. I believe in free will. Also that GOD loves everyone in the world. John 3:16

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/22/16


Everyone loves to quote Ephesians 2:8-9, and while it is true we are not saved by our own works, verse 10 of Ephesians 2 states that we are ordained to walk with the Spirit's work in our life:
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

I believe in OSAS, but before we announce that someone is saved we have to see what kind of ground the seed feel on, and what kind of fruit is produced in the person's life. For good ground produces Good fruit, Luke 8:15. But those on the 3 bad grounds have no hope, Hebrews 6:4-10, for they were never of Christ. I John 2:19
---Jamea7799 on 10/22/16


God has already predestined ALL men to adoption in Christ.---Mark_Eaton on 10/21/16

This can't possibly be true, or no one could go to Hell!!

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,

Think these are going to Heaven. Think the "reprobate" are going to Heaven?

Rom 9:22 . . . the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Think the "vessels of wrath" are going to Heaven.

You better learn the truth.
---aservant on 10/22/16


James 2:18-20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without DEEDS is useless?
---Nicole_Lacey
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith---john9346


Nicole & John
Paul said, "We are saved by Grace through faith" and
James said, "Faith without deeds is worthless."

Most doctrines give half teachings of Paul, and this is a perfect example. They teach we are saved by Grace, but completely sidestep the through faith part.

You quote Paul & James, so I hope you will trust in their teachings.
If we are saved by Grace through Faith, doesn't this prove, the Faith by which we are saved has value?
And according to James, doesn't the value come, by deeds?
---David on 10/22/16


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The child as an Adult DECIDED to leave the family.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/21/16

Yes. You see the parables of the Prodigal son and the 1 & 99 sheep are both illustrations of the love of God for us.

God has already predestined ALL men to adoption in Christ.

The gift of Jesus was much more than the curse of Adam, and all men were affected by death from Adam. So all men are affected by life from Jesus.

Yet, not all realize this and are in darkness about Christ. They run from Him to other places. They need a change in their minds (repentance) about Him. They need to see how good the love of God really is.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/21/16


//Why would God adopt me just to sentence me to Hell?--Mark_Eaton on 10/21/16

1st, God doesn't SEND anyone to Hell.

Everyone in Hell chose NOT to repent.

2nd, Why would a family adopt a child to have that same child not participate with the family as an adult?

The family adopted the child to BELONG to the family forever.

That's why they GAVE the child their name.

The child couldn't take the name.

The child as an Adult DECIDED to leave the family.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/21/16


Yes, but the adoption only states you are a child of someone but is doesn't mean you can remain in the family home NO MATTER our behavior.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/20/16

Why would God adopt me just to sentence me to Hell?

No, this is why people are rejecting the Protestant message. Our behavior does not dictate God's love for us.

Look at this scripture. Hardly nobody has it underlined in their Bible, but it states a wonderful truth. That ALL men have been changed thru the death of Jesus.

Rom 5:18 "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men"
---Mark_Eaton on 10/21/16


Paul says we were "baptized into His death" > Romans 6:3. And he speaks of "we" "who first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12.

If we have been baptized into His death, I would say we are now in His love which had Him die for any and all people, with hope for any evil person, at all.

And trusting Jesus, I consider, includes submitting to how He rules us in God's peace > Colossians 3:15, Matthew 11:28-30. And we trust God for how He personally corrects each of us > Hebrews 12:4-11 > so we are conformed to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29 > so we are loving the way Jesus in us has us loving.

We trust His way of loving (c:
---Bill on 10/21/16


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davidstates, "Salvation is free, but Grace is not."

This is an Egregious Error/misunderstanding because without "Grace." there is no salvation...

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:8-9.
---john9346 on 10/21/16


//Jesus states we do. Mark 16:16--Nicole
Did Jesus did say, we "Are" saved, if we do these things, or did he say, we "Shall" be saved,//

Again it ISN'T us doing anything.
It's God doing the WORK of Salvation in the form of Baptism as Jesus said.

//if we do these things? One is a teaching of works, the other is not...If this was true, wouldn't Satan and his demons be under Gods Grace too?---David

James 2:18-20 But someone will say, You have faith, I have DEEDS.
Show me your faith without DEEDS, and I will show you my faith by my DEEDS. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatand shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without DEEDS is useless?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/21/16


Jesus states we do. Mark 16:16--Nicole Lacey

Nicole
Did Jesus did say, we "Are" saved, if we do these things, or did he say, we "Shall" be saved, if we do these things? One is a teaching of works, the other is not.

Salvation is free, but Grace is not. For one to be in the favor of God, obedience to his commands are required.

How can we know this is the truth?
Those who don't Repent, and those who don't get Baptized, are not under the Grace of God. Now some may say, "They are not under Grace because they don't believe Jesus is the Son of God". If this was true, wouldn't Satan and his demons be under Gods Grace too?
---David on 10/21/16


Yes, we can fool ourselves and be wishful, Nichole. Possibly, your example below is a man who did a copy-cat thing and was trying to use people.

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

So, I try to prayerfully test how someone is doing, trying to do what can be used by God for each one.
---Bill on 10/20/16


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It is written that in the end days there will be a great falling away from the faith. One must have faith to begin with before one falls away.

It is also written that those who don't believe in Christ, but do good works will be resurrected and judged from the Book of Life.
---Steveng on 10/20/16


//repentance and baptism play a big role in salvation, but we are not saved when we do them..---David

Jesus states we do. Mark 16:16

We can ONLY repent and we still need God's Grace to repent.

Salvation comes from God. It is a total GIFT.

That's why we baptize babies.

//Our adoption by God is the same...the same rights and privileges in Jesus.--Mark_Eaton

Yes, but the adoption only states you are a child of someone but is doesn't mean you can remain in the family home NO MATTER our behavior.

You can be kicked out of the family home for refusing to follow the family RULES.

Leaving the family DOESN'T mean you lose your SIR name.

As you can go to Hell with the Baptism Seal on your soul.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/20/16


If you are saved after saying the sinners prayer or after you are baptized, didn't you save yourself?

Were you saved before you said the sinners Prayer?
Were you saved before you were baptized?
If you were not saved before the prayer, or before you were baptized, didn't you save yourself?

I agree, repentance and baptism play a big role in salvation, but we are not saved when we do them. When we do them, we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and Gods Holy Spirit will then lead those, who choose to follow, to their salvation.
---David on 10/20/16


But He respects our free will. So we can reject our Salvation as some reject their marriage.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/18/16

We (collectively) are the bride of Jesus. However, this is not until the end of time.

Right now, we are adopted as sons and daughters of God.

According to Biblical scholars, at the time of Christ in Rome, adopted children could not be removed from the family once they were adopted. They were permanently part of the adopting family and were heirs of title, position, and fortune.

Our adoption by God is the same. We are joint heirs with Jesus and are sons and daughters with the same rights and privileges in Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/19/16


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//Our security lies in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, Who is eternal.
Not in anything else, including our individual acts of faith.---Cluny on 10/18/16

Yet, God reassures us that in the Sacrament of Baptism we CAN KNOW we are Saved.

Being faithful and keeping our Salvation is another thing
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/19/16


Our security lies in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, Who is eternal.

Not in anything else, including our individual acts of faith.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/16


Catholics believe Salvation occurs at Baptism as Jesus promised.

God is clear and never confuses people on How and When they are Saved.

But He respects our free will. So we can reject our Salvation as some reject their marriage.

They were married and have a date with Vows given to each other.

Some still get a divorce.

As some divorce themselves from Jesus
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/18/16


When are they correct?
5 years ago, or now after the sin?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/17/16

They were never correct.

I believe in Eternal Security, perhaps this is OSAS or not, I do not know.

In the Parable of the Sower (Luke 8), Jesus describes seed landing in four different places. In three of the places, the seed begins to grow. However, only one of the three matures and brings forth fruit.

Externally, we would see growth in three of the four and some would declare these three "saved", but in reality only one out of the four is perpetually abiding in Jesus, persevering, and bearing fruit in the end. This one I would say is saved.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/18/16


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Nicole: So true!

Some facts:

(1) Salvation occurs AFTER judgement.

(2) It is God who is our Judge - not we ourselves.

(3) Lost people can be saved ... if ...

(3) Godly people can indeed be lost ... if ...


Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live, if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered, but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.


---Jerry6593 on 10/18/16


Wivi, I sincerely am curious. I witness people stand in front of everyone professing the 'Sinner's Prayers'.

Everyone hugs him and told him he belonged to God and no one can take him away.

Well fast forward 5 years. The same man commits horrible crimes.

The same people who voice surety of his Salvation 5 year earlier come out saying he isn't Saved and was never Save.

How can that be true?

When are they correct?
5 years ago, or now after the sin?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/17/16


It's as you say, but this is not what is stated in the Bible. Always use the Bible as your point of reference for anything that causes doubt in your thinking, Just remember we Christian's are just forgiven, and not perfect. Here's a saying I heard years ago that helps me, "The church is a hospital for sinners not a hotel for saints" Everything you hear is not always from a Christian but maybe from a person who is just religious.
---wivv on 10/17/16


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