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Pastor Paid From Poor Fund

Is it illegal for a Pastor to get paid from the church designated funds to cover shortfalls in his paycheck? The church treasurer told me she wasn't supposed to pay the Pastor from the poor fund, and it wasn't the first time. She also informed me that she told the Pastor and he was indifferent.

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//The reason there isn't enough young people, is because Abortion has killed off millions and millions,//

HOW TRUE! 55 million since 1973 of reported abortions in America alone. They believe it is really 100 million if you count the abortifacient birth control pills.

//who by design of the SSI creators, were meant to become tax payers. When created, they had no idea Abortion would one day become Law.//

Ironic isn't?

Evil never prevails over Wisdom.

//Very sound plan, but when you kill off millions, who were by design, meant to support it, it will eventually fail.--David on 1/18/17

I bet you that don't even realize that they are the reason their SSI check will cease.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/18/17


Okay Nicole, we don't agree on most things. I see your point on this and I agree with you!

I have no problem helping those who can't work. But I don't want to give a penny to those who are lazy and refuse to work.

I worked long and hard for many years to provide for my family and myself.
---Rob on 1/17/17


Nicole_Lacey:

I had mentioned on several occasions that I live in the Phoenix area.

I go by what the government actually promises, not by pre-conceptions (other than the standard non-cynical one - i.e. that when the government says something, we should believe it instead of assuming they are all liars).

When you pay into a fund for future consideration, it is a right, not a handout.

As you know the life expectancy is greater in the USA due to all the medical procedures and medication.

Which under ACA more people could afford, but when it's repealed, not so much.
---StrongAxe on 1/18/17


Yes because there isn't enough young people .... Nicole

Nicole, you nailed it with that statement. And it's the main reason we have a lack of funds in SSI.

The reason there isn't enough young people, is because Abortion has killed off millions and millions, who by design of the SSI creators, were meant to become tax payers. When created, they had no idea Abortion would one day become Law.

The very foundation of the SSI comes from the growth of our population. Very sound plan, but when you kill off millions, who were by design, meant to support it, it will eventually fail. It's like shooting holes in a water bucket, meant to carry the water. Eventually the bottom of the bucket comes off.
---David on 1/18/17


//you are correct in saying not everyone pays into SSI, but you are incorrect everyone can receive from it.//

Okay you might be correct, but I thought my argument is that you can receive SSI without contributing to SSI. (making it a handout)

//I paid into SSI for decades, but I will never receive from it because my pension is too much.//

A perfect example of WHY it isn't fair. A FORCE CHARITY!

//Also SSI is funded from the General Fund (Federal Income Tax.)//

Yes because there isn't enough young people and old people are living too long.

//SSDI is funded from the Social Security Tax.---Rob on 1/17/17

Yes, but SSI comes from the Federal Taxes as you said.

One big pot.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/17




//I am a Canadian citizen, but I have been living in the US half my life. Sadly, I know more about the US system than many who born here (e.g. lawmakers who don't understand the constitution,//

I can't tell by your postings.

You still think like a Canadian when it comes to Government's responsibilities.

I asked because if you went to school here as a child you would not expect so much from the Federal Government as a 'RIGHT'

//The short-lived pay in, but die before they can collect. The long-lived pay in, but collect much longer than the average life expectancy.---StrongAxe

Thanks for the explanation.

As you know the life expectancy is greater in the USA due to all the medical procedures and medication.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/17


Nicole_Lacey:

I am a Canadian citizen, but I have been living in the US half my life. Sadly, I know more about the US system than many who born here (e.g. lawmakers who don't understand the constitution, and Trump supporters who want Obamacare repealed while begging to keep ACA because they use it - not realizing they are the same thing.)

Why speak about America SSI systems?

I have paid much more into America's system than Canada's. By the way, Canada's equivalent of SSI (i.e. SIN) is called Social Insurance.

The short-lived pay in, but die before they can collect. The long-lived pay in, but collect much longer than the average life expectancy.
---StrongAxe on 1/17/17


//no one can force a pell grant on you. And it is a handout since you did not pay into it.//

SORRY, I misspoke.

I meant to say: You all were FORCED to pay for my education.

But, I wouldn't dare call it college insurance. It was an HANDOUT to me.

//My children qualified for a grant paid for by the GA Lottery. We did not take the money. Sure it would have helped as I was then a single mother, but it went against my conscience.---kathr4453

You shouldn't have felt bad.

I know about the HOPE grant. That is a State entity and it ISN'T funded by the Federal Government nor by Georgia's citizens taxes.

It all comes from the lottery system.

No one is forced to buy a lottery ticket.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/17


There are certainly limits. The Bible says that the poor, you will always have among you. For a moment in the New Testament, there was a form of Christian Communism where in no one considered one's stuff to be one's own, but each was generous to share. Ananias and Saphira were a bit dishonest about the gift they layed at the Apostle's feet and were made examples for it. I think idealism is set aside. Some people choose to store more their treasures in heaven. More do not. I do think it is nice when people work together. But more become self-serving. There is little regard for others when one is self-serving. Much gets misappropriated.
---mike4879 on 1/17/17


Nicole, you are correct in saying not everyone pays into SSI, but you are incorrect everyone can receive from it.

I paid into SSI for decades, but I will never receive from it because my pension is too much.

Also SSI is funded from the General Fund (Federal Income Tax.)

SSDI is funded from the Social Security Tax.
---Rob on 1/17/17




Nicole, no one can force a pell grant on you. And it is a handout since you did not pay into it. My children qualified for a grant paid for by the GA Lottery. We did not take the money. Sure it would have helped as I was then a single mother, but it went against my conscience.

Social security was set up as INCOME INSURANCE. Insuring the elderly a minimal income after retirement. But an insurance that you had to pay into. Not everyone can qualify for SS Nicole. If you have never worked a day in your life, you do not get a cent. But yes, it is wrong foreigners CAN get our SS having never paid into it. The rules are confusing. But it's because people are taking from it who never paid into it is a major reason it is going bust.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/17


Kathr, only SSDI states it's insurance, but you KNOW it isn't insurance like home, medical or car insurance.

Anyone can get SSI which isn't insurance because you DON'T necessarily have to pay into it.

SSDI is Government FORCING other citizens to take care of someone else. FALSE CHARITY.

I am not against helping people when they are sick. I am saying the Government SHOULDN'T force anyone.

I have been the recipient many times myself.
Remember the 'Pell Grant'?

Are you going to call that College Insurance as well?

It was a FORCED HANDOUT given to me by the Government from you all!

Just because I received the Pell Grant doesn't mean I need to color the words?

CAN'T WE BE HONEST?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/17


Nicole, It was a major insurance company. Look up SS, it tells you it is INSURANCE. Nicole insurance, as well as medical insurance, of which a specific percent is allocated for Medicare. Just because the GOV has decided to take OUR money and give it away to others who have not paid into it....which is true, does not mean MINE is a hand out. My additional supplemental insurance paid all my medical bills.....BUT what they paid will NEVER equal what I pay extra. If I paid 4K a year extra for the 30 years...yes, but my supplemental does not come to that much a year, and I doubt I will live to 100. It's called INSURANCE. It's HOW it works.

Someone taking out a 5 Million life insurance policy does not pay 5 million into it.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/17


//Income Insurance.//

???

Impossible. You made that up!

//My Insurance paid all but $585.00. Was the difference a hand out?//

Yes, if it's was Medicaid.

//Just because the GOV heads it up does not mean it is a GOV handout//

Yes you can. If you take monies from one group of people by strong-arming (TAXES) and give it to someone else without your say so it is a HANDOUT!

Just because the Government is Government DOESN'T MEAN it CAN'T be a handout!

//or should be raided either.---kathr4453

Only a Government Agency can be raided in front of everyone and it continues day after day.

Any other business would have been SUED if some of the stockholders raided it's books like the Gov.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/16/17


StrongAxe, People can collect SSI even if they NEVER worked a day in their life. No investment made by them.

//With social security, everyone pays in.//

NOT TRUE! NOT EVERYONE

//your widow/widower doesn't get the balance when you die.//

You don't know what you are speaking about?

Widowers can/does collect on their spouse's SSI.

Don't you live in Canada?

Why speak about America SSI systems? Speak about Canada. Trust me, I won't argue and pretend I understand Canada's SSI system! You are WRONG.

//The short-lived subsidize the long-lived.---StrongAxe

???? If you are short lived you are dead! So they can't pay for the long-lived ones

SSI works by the young paying for the old!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/16/17


Nicole_Lacey:

In investments, each investor contributes a specific amount, and based on how the investment matures, is entitled to a specific amount out. If the investor dies, the excess is paid to the estate.

In insurance, each insured contributes an amount amount each payment period. IF and/or when the insured condition occurs, the insured receives payments depending on his/her contributions. Most contribute more than they receive, to pay for a smaller number who receive more.

With social security, everyone pays in. The amount you collect varies, depending on how long you live - your widow/widower doesn't get the balance when you die. Thus, this is a form of insurance. The short-lived subsidize the long-lived.
---StrongAxe on 1/16/17


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StrongAxe, you left out an 3rd option.

The Church can take care of the poor themselves!

The Gov only made health MORE expensive NOT available!

//Can the church provide better and cheaper medical care than hospitals can?//

Yes! The Church is the one who invented the hospital!

//You're welcome to opt out of ACA if you don't own a body.//

Why do Leftists LOVE to control everyone.

It's my body if I want to abort my baby, but NOT my choice if I don't want the ACA???

//I will also be surprised if I am still here in 2047.---StrongAxe.

Most likely I WILL BE HERE, but of course you don't care about SSI for everyone just you Baby Boomers! Perfect name for you all.

A bunch of babies!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/16/17


Social security may refer to: social insurance, where people receive benefits or services in recognition of contributions to an insurance program. These services typically include provision for retirement pensions, disability insurance, survivor benefits and unemployment insurance.

Social security IS insurance. Income Insurance. Then it is also broken down and Medicare also, medical insurance is also deducted.

I also pay for additional insurance. My medical bills this past summer were well over 125K. My Insurance paid all but $585.00. Was the difference a hand out? SS is a GOV Insurance program. Not a private one. Just because the GOV heads it up does not mean it is a GOV handout or should be raided either.
---kathr4453 on 1/16/17


Nicole_Lacey:

I said churches would have to pay hospital bills **IF** you assume they must care for the poor and the government doesn't. There are three choices:
1) Government assumes the burden
2) Church assumes it
3) Nobody does, and the sick poor die (Darwinism)
Which do YOU prefer? 3 is not Christian, and 2 is not affordable (for health care), leaving only 1.

We believe the Church CAN care for the poor BETTER, CHEAPER and more EFFECTIVE then Gov.

Can the church provide better and cheaper medical care than hospitals can?

ONLY if you OWN a car

You're welcome to opt out of ACA if you don't own a body.

I will also be surprised if I am still here in 2047.
---StrongAxe on 1/16/17


Nicole,

You are very welcome and more appreciation for taking care of those who were in Military Service.

I am sure they fully appreciate you...
---john9346 on 1/16/17


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//I just want to say thank you for being a nurse for devoting yourself to taking care of others at their most Vulnerable Moment..--john9346

Thank you for your kind words.

I truly love being a Nurse to our Veterans. To care for those who served our Country is a privileged for me since they are the best group of people in my opinion.


//SSDI stands for Social Security Disability Insurance.//

Who was talking about Disability? Not StrongAxe, me or you.

****Social Security is Insurance. That is why it's called SSI, which I paid into for over 40 years.---Rob on 1/15/17

//Nicole, get your facts straight.---Rob

Rob, don't add a letter D and pretend it was there the whole time.

It's isn't nice.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/15/17


Nicole, you also need to thank the US Government for paying for your Nursing education. So, the way I see it, you took a Government hand out because you were poor, which was one of the requirements for this hand out. It did not come through your Church. Would you have had the opportunity to become a Nurse without this hand out? Should my taxes be paying for your education, when my parents taxes or mine even did not pay for mine, or my children's?

It reminds me of an employee I use to work with who always made it KNOWN, that he would not participate in ANY holidays BUT didn't mind "taking" HOLIDAY PAY and Gift cards or gifts given on those very Holidays.
---kathr4453 on 1/16/17


It depends with the constitution of the Church. If this is provided then why not ,
---FRIDAH on 1/16/17


Hello Nicole,

I just want to say thank you for being a nurse for devoting yourself to taking care of others at their most Vulnerable Moment...

Just want to say thank you...
---john9346 on 1/15/17


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//I never said church groups are OBLIGATED to pay hospital bills.//

Yes you did

//..would bankrupt most individuals, and many church groups.---StrongAxe 1/12/17

Only people ALLOWED to go bankrupt are those who are OBLIGATED to pay a debt.

If they are NOT obligated then they CAN'T go bankrupt.

//if one believes caring for others is the duty of the church not government,//

We believe the Church CAN care for the poor BETTER, CHEAPER and more EFFECTIVE then Gov.

//without government welfare and health care,//

Who said without?

We believe the Gov's MAIN responsibility is to PROTECT it's citizens.

//In most states, car insurance is mandatory--StrongAxe

ONLY if you OWN a car
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/15/17


SSI stands for Supplemental Security Income.

SSDI stands for Social Security Disability Insurance.

Nicole, get your facts straight.
---Rob on 1/15/17


//Nicole doesn't know and she is supposed to be a nurse.

Social Security is Insurance. That is why it's called SSI, which I paid into for over 40 years.---Rob

StrongAxe, do you see what I mean?

Now Rob thinks the 'I' in SSI means insurance.

At least this supposed Nurse knows that the 'I' means INCOME not Insurance.

They don't call an insurance pay out 'income' and it doesn't KEEP PAYING until the death of a person.

Plus when one collect insurance it is a SET AMOUNT.

SSI is unending until the death of the person.

That is 'unending' until the money runs out.

I pray you live for another 30 years. I also hope you have PLAN B for an income beside SSI because it WON'T BE THERE in 2047!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/15/17


StrongAxe, you have just proven how much Nicole doesn't know and she is supposed to be a nurse.

Social Security is Insurance. That is why it's called SSI, which I paid into for over 40 years.
---Rob on 1/15/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

I never said church groups are OBLIGATED to pay hospital bills. However, if one believes caring for others is the duty of the church not government, without government welfare and health care, who ELSE is supposed to pay hospital bills of people who can't afford them? Should they just die? How Darwinian.

Not all insurance is voluntary. In most states, car insurance is mandatory so insured drivers aren't at the mercy of uninsured who cause accidents. Under ACA, health insurance is mandatory for the same reason.

SS does not involve health but it IS insurance.

If SS fund runs out before you can retire, blame Congress who raids it to pay for things instead of raising taxes like they're supposed to.
---StrongAxe on 1/14/17


1. Church groups are NOT obligated to pay any hospital bills and can't go bankrupt over hospital b

2. WHY do I have to pay for another person's bill? What about my own bills?

SS ISN'T INSURANCE!

With insurance the monthly payment is based on one's behavior/illness and voluntary.

SS is mandatory and it's payment is ONLY determined on how much you make.

//As a nurse, I would expect you to understand the dynamics of insurance.--StrongAxe

SS has NOTHING to do with health!

BTW, how is it fair that when I am 62 there WON'T be any money for me even though I paid for 40 years?

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."--Margaret Thatcher
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/13/17


StrongAxe, false question!

You should ask do I know the statistics in communism/socialist countries care for the poor vs. those who LET their FREE citizens care for them?

The countries with free citizen's poor live 10 better than communism countries who CLAIM they care for the poor.

North Korea, Cuba, African countries with starving people, slaves, total chaos with dictators claiming to CARE for the poor!

Venezuela? Before Hugo Chvez the poor had toilet paper, electric and bread.

Now they are trying to escape their own homes!

Strange how all the poor are trying to come to America?

The only Capitalist Country in the world.

Even when they get to Canada that are STILL trying to get to America!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/13/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Do you know poverty statistics in countries that care for the poor vs. those who leave it to private hands?

Some forms of care are beyond private means. $5K+ daily hospital costs would bankrupt most individuals, and many church groups.

Unless the Government returns EXACTLY what one pays into SS with interest it's A HANDOUT!

No, it's INSURANCE. Some die early, some live longer. It balances out. Insurance expects that it doesn't pay out nearly as much as it takes in for most people, so it can cover those who need more - average income matches average payout. For-profit insurance tilts it so more always comes in than goes out. As a nurse, I would expect you to understand the dynamics of insurance.
---StrongAxe on 1/12/17


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StrongAxe, the Gospel reading in Mass today does speak of Jesus touching a Leper.

I forgot about that Passage.

I quickly remembered our conservation about Lepers and Jesus.

Mark 1:40-42
And a leper came to him, imploring him, and kneeling said to him, If you will, you can make me clean. Moved with pity, he stretched out his hand and touched him and said to him, I will, be clean. And immediately the leprosy left him, and he was made clean.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/12/17


Again StrongAxe, brought up the words Social Security as in protection.

I am not talking about monies.

Every Countries has one form of Social Security.

(Little) social security isn't American. It was started around 1950's.

Just as Taxes. It came along in 1915.

The Government needs to protect us.

You and I need to feed and care for the poor.

We do it better.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/11/17


//Social Security is a government insurance program, where we pay in when working, and collect when unable to. This is not hand-outs, as WE pay our own money into it.---StrongAxe

You can't tell me your math skills are that bad.

I paid around $5500 into SS last year.

Lets say that I paid that much for 30 years. That's $165,000 total.

At 65 years old I am entitled to $2000 a month totaling $24,000 a year.

if I live to be 80 years old it comes out to be $360,000 and that's if the Government is so lucky if I die at 80. If I live 5 more years it comes out to another $120,000.

Not counting on inflation.

Unless the Government returns EXACTLY what one pays into SS with interest it's A HANDOUT!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/11/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Social Security is a government insurance program, where we pay in when working, and collect when unable to. This is not hand-outs, as WE pay our own money into it. Sadly, Congress has been stealing from this with no plans to pay it back. Money lost to welfare fraud is totally dwarfed by money paid to large corporations.

I mentioned agencies because they are ALL necessaary, so one can justify robbing SS for virtually ANY reason. Yet that's not how our budget process is supposed to work. Congress is supposed to PLAN for money needed by each branch - not spend way too much, and rob Peter (us) to play Paul. Stealing from funds we are forced pay and are supposed to get back later is another inappropriate form of taxation.
---StrongAxe on 1/11/17


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//No Government, no social security.---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/17

StrongAxe, I think you miss understood me.

When I said 'social security' I didn't mean the way Democrats thinks about social security.

I meant the real social security of the Country.

Social as in citizens NOT hand outs or a fake/lie to get monies from it's citizens to steal from.

Security as in safety NOT unlimited hand outs.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/11/17


StrongAxe, no military no food. Do you know about Somalia?

NTSB?

You want safety with roads, but not the COUNTRY?

Read about Somalia?

FDIC?

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.
It only insures our money it doesn't mean there are no banks for us to buy food.

Been to Somalia?

CDC?

Center for Disease control.

And the disease is under control in Somalia?

Ever vacationed in Somalia?

//One could eventually justify pretty much every branch of government as ultimately necessary to the nation---StrongAxe

And one can take an important BRANCH of the Government for GRANTED as well.

BTW, Somalian citizens are DYING to get out of SOMALIA because of NO MILITARY!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/11/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: If the money needed for the military it is understandable.

Where do you draw the line? FDA? (No food, no citizens) NTSB? (No transportation, no food) FDIC? (No banks, no money to buy food) CDC? (Plagues, no citizens). One could eventually justify pretty much every branch of government as ultimately necessary to the nation - which means one can justify raiding the social security fund for ANY reason, on the grounds of "necessity".
---StrongAxe on 1/10/17


//Perhaps if you tithe or are a cheerful giver, the church will not need to dip into the Poor Fund to pay the Pastor?---mike4879 on 1/4/17

Good one!

Unless the Pastor is asking for more of a salary than he is worth.

If the Church is a store front Church he should know better.


---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/17


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Perhaps if you tithe or are a cheerful giver, the church will not need to dip into the Poor Fund to pay the Pastor?
---mike4879 on 1/4/17


//It is like the U.S. government borrowing from social security.---mike4879 on 1/4/17

If the money needed for the military it is understandable.

No Government, no social security.

No Pastor no poor fund.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/17


It is like the U.S. government borrowing from social security.
---mike4879 on 1/4/17


That is misappropriation of designated funds. If funds are collected separately than the regular offering, with a stated purpose for said collection, then the funds are considered designated. Usually kept in a separate account. To use those funds for salary would require contacting donors for permission. Sounds like the treasurer should call a meeting, and get the opinion of other church officials, (not the Pastor).
---Walnut on 1/3/17


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mike:

You may not like the idea that pastors should be paid, but scripture says they are entitled to it:

1 Co 9:13-14:
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

(This does not mean they are entitled to mansions and Lear jets and yachts.)

it is true you are stupid & gullible...

You may call someone misinformed, naive, gullible, or wrong. However, if you call someone "stupid", it's the same as calling him a "fool" - you endanger ourself. See Matthew 5:22.
---StrongAxe on 11/3/16


strongaxe

you mentioned 'don't muzzle the ox'. that does not mean MONEY. it means, they should receive 'double HONOR' NOT money.

it is true you are stupid & gullible because you are agreeing to pay them salary but quoting 'don't muzzle the ox' that does not even point to a salary or money. that is how Christianity exploit the congregation by using fear, shame blame & twisting the scriptures. you are following man
---mike on 11/2/16


mike:

You wrote: don't cherry pick the verse 1 timothy 5:18.

I wasn't quoting Timothy. I was quoting Deuteronomy 25:4 that Paul himself quoted in 1 Corinthians 9:9 and 1 Timothy 5:18. Read 1 Corinithians 9. Paul said those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel - even though he himself did not choose to take advantage of that power.

You wrote to aservant: another stupid & gullible

Once again, you endanger your soul (as Jesus himself warned).

You are always accusing pastors in general (i.e. all pastors). Yes, some are corrupt, but to say ALL are corrupt is unfair.
---StrongAxe on 11/2/16


pastors accuse you that the reason you are NOT BLESSED or that god did NOT answer your prayers is bec. 'ye lack faith' or 'you sinned that is why god is punishing you' but pay the pastors a salary bec they preach the gospel is NOT ABOUT greater FAITH but EXPLOITATION & twisting the scriptures -that is why they can say 'I am blessed' and also BRAINWASHING
---mike on 11/1/16


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. . . then Christianity IS A business
. . . will say 'it's none of your business ---mike on 10/28/16


Rev 2:9 . . . but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 . . . I will make them of the synagogue of Satan

Most Christian organizations intend to serve Christ. There are organizations that pretend to serve Christ, but are actually serving Satan.

God ordered the tithe to be the forever inheritance of the church workers - Num 18:21-32. You are supposed to give what your Master tells you to give. He will deal with those who are disobedient, who misuse His funds.

I believe you should seek another group of believers whose leaders intend to obey God.
---aservant on 11/1/16


I don't give any $10,000 seed ---mike on 11/1/16

I said nothing about you giving $10,000. In my example, you served God 1 hour and your pastor served God 10 hours, and God gave your pastor $10,000 per week. My original question is below.


Let's say you serve God 1 hour a week, and you have sinned that week. Still your paycheck is $1,000 per week. Let's say this Pastor you are upset with serves God 10 hours a week, and has sinned that week. Still his paycheck is $10,000 per week. How is God unfair to give him 10 times the money He gave you?
---aservant on 11/1/16


//aservant
pastors are not obligated to feed the poor?---mike

No they are NOT.

Aservant is correct. The Church can help, but the Pastor needs to PASTOR his Church.

Jesus didn't even feed all the poor and HE of aware of every single person going to bed hungry and starving to dead.

The Bible is clear.

Acts 6:2-4

So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/1/16


aservant
pastors are not obligated to feed the poor? really? the why does franklin graham ask for donation & then claim to be CEO of Samaritan purse with almost $1 million salary. you see 'christian' TV like 0700 club asking for money to feed the poor yet not give any financial statements. pay the workers? then Christianity IS A business.

I don't give any $10,000 seed.
---mike on 11/1/16


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strongaxe
don't cherry pick the verse 1 timothy 5:18. there are verses before that. 1 tim 5:17 says ELDERS ARE worthy of double HONOR (does that say money or salary?) NO! it says HONOR. when Paul work as a tentmaker he was paid. there are plenty of believers (not pastors) who preach without demanding for money.
---mike on 11/1/16


the funds of the church are to pay the workers?

aservant - if that is the case, then why don't they show the financial statements. but pastors are CEOs & will say 'it's none of your business'. where's the honesty. the bible says 'PREACH THE GOSPEL FREELY' not some strings attached. YOU ARE GULLIBLE.
---mike on 11/1/16


instead of the money going to feed the poor ---mike on 10/31/16

Gosh Mike, let me slow you down a little bit:

- The Pastor is not obligated to feed the poor, God is.
- Funds to the church are there to primarily pay the workers.
- The church (not the Pastor) commits to feed who God tells them to feed, which is usually church attenders.
- The church is not required to feed those who won't work.

2Ths 3:10 . . . if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Greatest percentage of pastors are not money grubbing.

You never answered my question about God giving $10,000 per week to the pastor.
---aservant on 11/1/16


---mike on 10/31/16

We tithe on INCREASE.

If we manufacture cars, all the steel, rubber, plasctic, oil and gasoline is from the land. Build houses = are parts are from the land. Build computers = all parts are from the land.

Jesus receives tithes now. Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes, but there he receiveth them . . .


Forerunner Commentary

God's Word reveals we are to tithe on the increase (profit) we receive as a result of our productive effort (Leviticus 27:30-33, Deuteronomy 14:22). Therefore, a person working for wages --the vast majority of us-- would tithe one tenth of the total amount of his pay . . .
---aservant on 10/31/16


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aservant
do these pastors admit they are SINNERS? NO! just like the RELIGIOUS leaders are quick to accuse others when they are suffering. useful to HIM? instead of the money going to feed the poor, it ends up in their houses & they if these pastors do give assistance, it becomes a tax dedeuctible - there is always something for personal financial gain.
---mike on 10/31/16


aservant

tithe is NEVER money. Leviticus 27:30 every tithe of the land whether of the seed of the land or fruits of the trees, 2 chr 31:5 - ...Israel gave in abundance the firstfruits of grain wine oil honey & all the produce of the field.
paul worked with his hands as a tentmaker. another stupid & gullible
---mike on 10/31/16


Is it illegal for a Pastor to get paid from the church designated funds to cover shortfalls . . . wasn't supposed to pay the Pastor from the poor fund . . . ---Concerned on 10/24/16

He didn't break any law. The church leaders have broken God's Law. The pastor is supposed to be paid 10% of the tithe. Paying the pastor as God instructed would never result in a short paycheck, so there would never be a unusual withdrawal from designated funds.

Most churches rob the tithe money to pay church bills - Mal 3:8, but God designated tithes to be the FOREVER inheritance of church workers - Num 18:21-26
---aservant on 10/29/16


why are you defending the pastors. Christ told them . . . that they are lovers of money, hypocrites. ---mike on 10/28/16

You are right. All pastors sin, and many are hypocrites as you say. So then, why doesn't Jesus remove them since He has all power? Primarily, there are no sinless pastors to replace them with. And He can overcome their flaws and still make them useful to Him.

Let's say you serve God 1 hour a week, and you have sinned that week. Still your paycheck is $1,000 per week. Let's say this Pastor you are upset with serves God 10 hours a week, and has sinned that week. Still his paycheck is $10,000 per week. How is God unfair to give him 10 times the money He gave you?
---aservant on 10/29/16


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Concerned, isn't the Pastor's paycheck part of expenses the Church has to pay anyway?

It is good and wonderful to have a poor fund, but if you don't have a Pastor would you have a poor fund?

It's like saying the Church Treasurer shouldn't take monies from the electricity fund to pay the Church's mortgage?

If you don't pay the mortgage the won't have to worry about the electricity's bill.

Shortfalls means you have to know what are your priorities.

Everyone has to be paid.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/29/16


mike:

You wrote: strongaxe you are gullible & stupid.

You are quick to judge everyone in a group by the actions of a few. This is wrong. Should I say "Some men are corrupt. Mike is a man. Therefore, Mike is corrupt"? Of course not.

Being accusatory and judgmental is not only not Christ-like, it can also be very dangerous to your very soul, especially when you call someone "stupid".

Matthew 5:22
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
---StrongAxe on 10/28/16


mike, free preaching of the Gospel is one thing

But NOBODY gives free housing, weekly groceries, or health care to full time pastors, who are on call 24 hours a day. And even St. Paul said that the laborer in the vineyard is worthy of his hire on this very issue.

Contrary to what some people think, clergy are NOT tax-exempt. In fact, they are considered self employed, and must pay income tax even on the fair market value of rent for the parsonage.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/28/16


aservant
because pastors are hypocrites! they don't practice. pastors will tell the congregation, YOU SIN but they practice the very sin they accuse others. pastors give those who are suffering more c*ap. why are you defending the pastors. Christ told them right on their faces that they are lovers of money, hypocrites.
---mike on 10/28/16


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mike:

You wrote: what about pastor condemning everybody? first thing that comes out of their mouth is SIN!

Yes, there are some pastors like that, but not all of them. Some are hypocrites, but not all of them. If everyone you have ever encountered is like that, you have been going to the wrong churches.

It is the bad ones who are giving the good ones a bad name.
---StrongAxe on 10/28/16


strongaxe
Acts 20:33-35 paul worked he said 'I have not coveted anyone's silver, gold clothing. you know that THESE HANDS OF MINE HAVE SUPPLIED MY OWN NEEDS & the needs of my companions. in everything I did I showed you that by this kind of HARD WORK we must help the weak, remembering the words of Christ 'it is blessed to give than to receive.'

paul worked with his hands. pastors used that 'ye not muzzle the ox' verse to justify their laziness & greed so they can 'receive' the money instead of 'giving'. strongaxe you are gullible & stupid.
---mike on 10/28/16


what happened to my reply regarding 1 cor 9:18- Paul said 'what is my reward then? verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ WITHOUT CHARGE (free) that I abuse not my power in the gospel.'

strongaxe what is FREE preaching the gospel you don't understand.
---mike on 10/28/16


---mike on 10/25/16

Mike, you are really angry, and may have good reason, but there are things you are misunderstanding. The church is the "Bride" of Jesus in a Heavenly marriage. Jesus is the manager of that marriage. All church leaders are just part of the Bride. Thus, church leaders are managed by their Husband and can only do as their Husband permits.

What Jesus gives this wife or that wife is not the business of another wife. There is nothing in the Bible that tells church leaders to not enjoy better things if they can afford those things, or that tells church leaders they are responsible to help repair another wife's problem. Her Husband (Jesus) must repair her problem.
---aservant on 10/28/16


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strongxe
what about pastor condemning everybody? first thing that comes out of their mouth is SIN! so my question is pastors are quick to condemn but when statements like this happen, 'ye not judge them, ye not judge them.' they are fricking stupid. just like my other observations, they will say 'don't store treasures on earth but they do it'. hypocrite
---mike on 10/27/16


mike:

Only some pastors are lazy and greedy. You can't condemn an entire profession because of a few bad apples. If a pastor works at a church part time, he may have time to have a second paying job. However, in a large church, there may be enough word to keep a pastor busy full time, and he doesn't have enough time to have to take a second job to pay the bill.

Scripture says to not muzzle an ox, so it can eat while plowing. It's the same for people who devote all their time to the church - as they have no other time to cultivate separate sources of income, it is reasonable that the church pays their expenses. (Just as Levi received tithes because they had no revenue-generating land that other tribes had.)
---StrongAxe on 10/27/16


1 Corinthians 6:1-11.

Talk about this with whomever you trust.
---Bill on 10/27/16


part 1
Paul worked & he did NOT twist the scriptures so he can get paid. there is NO scriptures that pastors SHOULD BE SALARIED. they were given assistance. through the years malachi has been twisted & manipulated because pastors ARE LAZY. they justify that they should BE paid bec. they preach the gospel. many non pastors preach the gospel & they DO NOT demand for money.
---mike on 10/25/16


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part4 pastors should be an example not hypocrites. what is more evil is they would use pictures of handicaps, then you see them drive a luxury car. WHERE ARE THE financial statements to prove that they did help the poor. they submit that for MORE tax refund so they can have more money. HYPOCRITES!
---mike on 10/25/16


pt5 - a pastor name PHIL howard in valley bible church in pinole ca told me that SELF CONFIDENCE IS A SIN & wrote on the board S I N the middle of sin is I. but when I lost my job I have to look for a job, submit a resume & go for an interview. pastor howard NEVER paid MY bills & he has a HOUSE luxury car. fricking HYPOCRITE! that IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS a business & a way to manipulate & brainwash people.
---mike on 10/25/16


pt5 - why is it that pastors tell the congregation that 'it is blessed to give that to receive' - they take the money. why is it that pastors tell us to be a 'servant' but they don't want to be told what to do. just like what the bible says, that pastors are greedy, lazy, love their titles, their 'holiness' but do the same SIN because the brainwash the congregation using guilt, shame, fear, blame. many people have been devastated, their lives destroyed because of Christianity & when you rebuke these pastors, their defense is 'YE NOT JUDGE ME'
---mike on 10/25/16


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