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Finish It Here__Oct, 2016

Finish it Here__Oct, 2016

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Nicole, you DON'T understand half of what people say here. I think you like arguing. Either you are playing games OR.......you just don't pay attention to what people are saying. As for your LINE BY LINE PICK APART...... I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHIEF CORNER STONE. And JESUS is also the FOUNDATION, which 1 Corinthians 3:11 so clearly say...and I also posted that YOU reject. What you reject Nicole is SCRIPTURE. AND YOU ALSO REJECT the fact that the CHIEF CORNERSTINE IS THE FOUNDATION. Because YOU would rather make up some silly nonsense with your silly analogies that have NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING to prove your point, but not prove scripture. Nicole, you do not understand scripture. Your silly arguments show you don't.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/16


Nicole, because you LIED here about what I do and do not believe, again another UNCHRISTLIKE assault from you for the propose of WHAT...trying to WIN....WIN WHAT NICOLE. This website wasn't designed for those who use your kind of tactics, but rather for MATURE folks to discuss.

Please accept the fact that OUR PRIESTHOOD, of which we have one, is of the individual priesthood of the believer. We don't wear white collars, magically turn flower and water into Jesus Body to eat, or even listen to and recommend how many Hail Mary's one need to say for pentance. THAT IS NOT WHAT OUR PRIESTHOOD IS ABOUT. Now just GET OVER IT.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/16


I know that ORTHODOX Jews if they convert, accepted Jesus Christ in the Orthodox or RCC ONLY because of the Priesthood!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/6/16

That's because YOURS imitates the OT Priesthood Nicole. You just PROVED my point. The OT Priesthood was done away IN CHRIST. And today all believers IN CHRIST, are SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Secondly Nicole, I SAID, Peter's 2 verses, is what WE believe is the NT Priesthood of EVERY BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS.

The OT priest( not 70 elders) were SET ASIDE, SANCTIFIED, AND HOLY UNTO GOD. In the NT every Born Again believer is SET ASIDE, SANCTIFIED, AND HOLY UNTO GOD OFFERING UP Prayers and supplication, and Praise etc, etc, ( NOT BLOOD).
---kathr453 on 11/7/16


//pointing out scripture to you, as Samuel is too.//

And I challenged those Scriptures

You NEVER accept Scripture Jesus CALLING Himself the Cornerstone.

Running to Peter and Paul even though both of them repeat Jesus' Words as being the CornerStone

//Hebrews 7 and 8 and Revelation would not agree with you Nicole.//

Yes it does.

//OUR Priesthood is somewhat DIFFERENT than the RCC.---kathr4453 on 11/6/16

WHAT?

Now you are claiming you have a Priesthood?

Really?

What happen to this claim?:

***Since the NT, Jesus Christ and He alone is our High Priest, and NO OTHER PRIESTHOOD is NEEDED or even SPOKEN of under the NEW COVENANT.---kathr4453 on 11/3/16

Please explain?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/6/16


Nicole, you're free to believe what you want. I'm just pointing out scripture to you, as Samuel is too. Hebrews 7 and 8 and Revelation would not agree with you Nicole. OUR Priesthood is somewhat DIFFERENT than the RCC. So please refrain from saying we don't have one, or that we don't know what we are talking about. AGAIN, YOU don't know what we are talking about, and trying to cover that up by your rude PERSONAL comments is obvious you don't understand. The New priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek Hebrews 7:11.....long before Moses, and stating Jesus is the New Moses is just throwing something out there having NOTHING to do with the conversation of the OT or NT Priesthood. There are many TYPES of Christ's throughout scripture.
---kathr4453 on 11/6/16




//are you saying I don't understand it OR those who are not RCC don't understand it?//

I said YOU because of the things you said.

//I understand the OT Priesthood very well Nicole,//

NOT according to your postings.

//as my background is that of being a Jew.//

Well you need to reunite with them.

BTW, since you are a practicing Protestant that in itself EXPLAINS your KNOWLEDGE of the Jewish faith.

//who also believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and also KNOW OT will assure you Nicole that the RCC has I fact misrepresented the NT---kathr4453 on 11/5/16

I know that ORTHODOX Jews if they convert, accepted Jesus Christ in the Orthodox or RCC ONLY because of the Priesthood!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/6/16


Kathr, you don't understand the Priesthood because you all got RID of the Priesthood ALL together./////

Nicole, are you saying I don't understand it OR those who are not RCC don't understand it? I understand the OT Priesthood very well Nicole, as my background is that of being a Jew. And I am now a Born Again Christian. And although I am not a Messianic Jew, as Monk thought, I can tell you that even they, who also believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and also KNOW OT will assure you Nicole that the RCC has I fact misrepresented the NT Priesthood of the believer. So please don't ASSUME others don't know what they are talking about. It's YOU Nicole who doesn't KNOW what WE are talking about.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/16


Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Read Hebrews 7,8. Tell me what it says to you.

1Peter 2:4-8 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ....

We are part of the priesthood by being Born Again.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/5/16


//The 70 elders did NOT represent the OT priesthood, and in no way can be said to be a TYPE of NEW priesthood Jesus created in the upper room. You have quite an overactive imagination.---kathr4453 on 11/5/16

The OT prefigures the NT.

Jesus is often called the 'New Moses'

I gave you the example of the 70 elders to compare with Acts 2 Pentecost.

You are having trouble understand the Bible.

Bible is the Salvation Story of Mankind and How the Trinity Saves us.

They are called Testaments for a reason.

Testament means Witness.

OT and NT are witnessing to Jesus Himself.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/5/16


Kathr, you don't understand the Priesthood because you all got RID of the Priesthood ALL together.

Exodus 19:6 states the Priesthood was for ALL the tribes.

But because of the golden calf incident only the Levites were LEFT with the Priesthood.

Exodus 32:26-29 So he (Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and said, Whoever is for the Lord, come to me. And all the LEVITES rallied to him...

V28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

Then Moses said, You have been SET APART to the Lord today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day.

God giveth and taketh away as HE feels like it because HE IS GOD and we are NOT!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/5/16




john9346:

You wrote: So let me get this correct God who is an Infinite Eternal Spiritual Being is unable to guide mankind to the truth??

Not incapable, no. God is perfectly capable of ending evil, hatred, war, world hunger, disease, misunderstand, sin, death, taxes, and all other things we consider heinous. However, based on our own observations about the state of our world, and the abundance of all of the above, we can only conclude that he chooses not to do so.

It's like the Star Trek prime directive on non-interference. He seems to prefer to work in ways that make it deliberately non-obvious that he's been acting, lest he be directly observed doing so.
---StrongAxe on 11/5/16


reuben said, "Let me get this correct, you are saying, God the Infinite Eternal Spiritual Being left it up to mankind that which interpretation you prefer is correct?"

Sir, will you answer the question.

Again, I ask you, "So let me get this correct God who is an Infinite Eternal Spiritual Being is unable to guide mankind to the truth??"

Sir, is this your position that you want understood?
---john9346 on 11/4/16


john9346:

1. I didn't say SCRIPTURE is part human and part divine. I said some BOOKS are human and some are divine. Most Christians today believe Galatians is divine, while Laodiceans is not.

2. Please show where, in scripture, by chapter and verse, where each specific book of scripture is listed (i.e. Which book says Esther is scripture? Which books says Revelation is scripture? etc.)

3. I don't care what church fathers taught. You keep talking about sola scriptura, and what church fathers may have believed or taught is not part of scripture, so it is irrelevant to this discussion.
---StrongAxe on 11/5/16


Nicole, your verses have nothing to do with the Levitical Priesthood of the OT being fulfilled in the NT. And the Priesthood in the OT was STRICTLY from the Line of Levi, aka Aaron, Moses Brother, NOT SEVENTY ELDERS. Aaron and his sons, constituting Israels priesthood, offered animals in sacrifice pointing to the Promised Messiah TODAY Jesus Christ, who IS THAT ONCE AND FOR ALL FINAL SACRIFICE FOR SIN, ......therefore the priesthood was done away in Christ. Yes JESUS, not YOU fulfilled the law, in that the LAW required sacrifice only JESUS could fulfill.

The 70 elders did NOT represent the OT priesthood, and in no way can be said to be a TYPE of NEW priesthood Jesus created in the upper room. You have quite an overactive imagination.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/16


//You've tried to IMMITATE the OT Priesthood, that has been done away IN CHRIST.---kathr4453 on 11/4/16

That isn't true

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.

Jesus created the NEW PRIESTHOOD in the Upper Room at the Last Supper and at Pentecost. Acts 2

Numbers 11:24-26
So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD. Also, he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people, and stationed them around the tent. Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/4/16


strongaxe states, "There are some books that are of divine origin. There are some books that are of human origin. However, God himself did not tell us which is which. The index of which books is which is of human origin."To focus

1. The Scriptures are not (part and part) they are either "Divine." in origin or they are Humann-in-origin.

2. To state that God didn't give instruction on the books is to say that the Lord Jesus Christ who is God when he walked the earth lied to us because "Scripture." was his "Final Authority." see Lk 24:44-45 Jn 5:39-40.

3. You will never find a church father who believed and taught because this is "Heresy."
---john9346 on 11/4/16


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Hello strongaxe,

In regards to the Gospel of John being"Scripture.":

1. Have you not read John's Statements, "Jesus Said." "Jesus Answered."

2. Have you not read John's References of the Prophet Isaiah and Moses and when John cited them he quoted there "Infallible Declarations."
---john9346 on 11/4/16


The words, "Jesus Said." "The Spirit says." "It is written," or "the Scriptures say." "So that it might be fulfilled." these statements alone mean "Inspiration." "Divine Authority."
---john9346 on 11/4/16


Cluny, names of these sects? Because the Russian Eastern Orthodox DOES state 7 and are clear.

CCC 1116 Sacraments are "powers that comes forth" from the Body of Christ, which is ever-living and life-giving. They are actions of the Holy Spirit at work in his Body, the Church. They are "the masterworks of God" in the new and everlasting covenant.

//re 1 Peter 5:2-9, shows NOTHING of Peter instructing anyone in anything remotely resembling the Priesthood of the RCC.---kathr453

Because he is speaking to the Laity as 'priest, prophet and king!

As I said before, please DO NOT COMMENT on something you DON'T KNOW about.

I am NOT commenting about your belief as a FACT, because I am a CATHOLIC.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/4/16


\\Which sect of the Orthodox Churches you are claiming not sure how many Sacraments She has?\\

While Orthodox commonly speak of the Seven Sacraments, their number and even which rites of the Church ARE sacraments has never been conciliarly defined, as it has in the Latin and Post-rreformation churches.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/16


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Nicole, re 1 Peter 5:2-9, shows NOTHING of Peter instructing anyone in anything remotely resembling the Priesthood of the RCC. It has nothing to do with administering Communion, hearing and forgiving prayers, being told they could not marry, or has anything to do with holding any place of superiority in a local church. YOU took the OT Priesthood and revamped it to your liking NOT FOUND IN NT SCRIPTURE. I believe Hebrews makes that quite clear your priesthood is BOGUS. You see in Hebrews see the office of the LEVITES has been done away. Now IN CHRIST every member is of the Royal and Holy Priesthood, to offer up prayers and praise unto God, meaning THE INDIVIDUAL PRIESTHOOD OF THE BELIEVER, is that doctrine we broke away from the RCC for.
---kathr453 on 11/4/16


because YOU DON'T HAVE ONE.Nicole_Lacey/////

The ONLY mention of any ROYAL or HOLY Priesthood comes from 1 Peter 2:5 and then verse 9. WE (ALL the BODY OF CHRIST) ARE THE PRIESTHOOD NICOLE. It would take a really creative imagination to suggest Peter was talking to a "selected group of members" of a church, and not the WHOLE Body of Christ of believers. We do have a priesthood Nicole, JUST NOT LIKE THE RCC's. We don't use our priesthood to Lord it over other believers. You've tried to IMMITATE the OT Priesthood, that has been done away IN CHRIST.


1 Peter 2: 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/16


Cluny, Orthodox have at least 7 Sacraments.

Russian Orthodox does states 7 Sacraments

3 given at once:
Baptism, Chrismation and Eucharist.

Last 4: Confession, Holy Unction, Ordination and Marriage.

Which sect of the Orthodox Churches you are claiming not sure how many Sacraments She has?

Same thing. Protestants only have 2 of 7 Sacraments because you do not have a valid Priesthood.///

Jesus Christ and He alone is our High Priest--kathr4453

Priesthood means multiple offices of Priests.

Even the Jews had a High Priest and others just called Priests.

I think you are confused about the Priesthood all together because YOU DON'T HAVE ONE.

Speak on what you know.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/3/16


Same thing. Protestants only have 2 of 7 Sacraments because you do not have a valid Priesthood.///

Interesting comment. The RCC have a priesthood not found in NT scripture. Since the NT, Jesus Christ and He alone is our High Priest, and no other priesthood is needed or even spoken of under the New Covenant.

And scripture never once uses the word "sacraments." Having 9 sacraments does not qualify any denomination of a valid priesthood. IF you insist the RCC is Christian Nicole, then STOP making false accusations that Protestants do not have a valid priesthood.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/16


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Actually, Nicole, the Orthodox Church has NEVER officially said how many sacraments there are. We say there are certainly more than two 9the usual Protestant number), but don't go beyond that.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/16


//it's one of the SEVEN Sacraments of the RCC and Orthodox Churches....saying to strictly BELONGS TO THE RCC and ORTHODOX!//

Same thing. Protestants only have 2 of 7 Sacraments because you do not have a valid Priesthood.

//contradict yourself by saying: The Sacrament is FREE to all.//

No I NEVER said you had to pay for the Sacraments. NEVER!

//Free to all RCC and Orthodox, or just freely given by God to all Born Again Christians even those who are NOT RCC AND ORTHODOX?//

Free is free.
Baptism means you are born again.
Catholics and Orthodox are Christians.

Protestants are ALWAYS WELCOMED HOME.

//Again Nicole, Thankyou for clarifying this.--kathr4453

You very welcome 1 Peter 3:15
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/3/16


Sacrament of Confirmation one of seven Sacraments of the RCC and Orthodox Church.///

Yes first you say it's one of the SEVEN Sacraments of the RCC and Orthodox Churches....saying to strictly BELONGS TO THE RCC and ORTHODOX! And then you contradict yourself by saying:
The Sacrament is FREE to all./// Nicole_Lacey

Free to all RCC and Orthodox, or just freely given by God to all Born Again Christians even those who are NOT RCC AND ORTHODOX?

Yes the Gifts of the ministry are freely given by God to His Body having NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RCC OR ORTHODOX.

Again Nicole, Thankyou for clarifying this. This was my point to begin with that you continually argue with me about.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/16


So let me get this correct God who is an Infinite Eternal Spiritual Being is unable to guide mankind to the truth??
---john9346 on 11/1/16

Let me get this correct, you are saying, God the Infinite Eternal Spiritual Being left it up to mankind that which interpretation you prefer is correct?

John 9346* The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating.

Scripture is not self-authenticating, if it were than the canon of scripture would had been settle right way!

How do you know who wrote the Gospels? By Sola Scripture or by Tradition?
---Ruben on 11/3/16


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//openly proclaimed that not all doctrine that you, Nicole post here is the TRUE DOCTRINE of the RCC.//

Not my doctrines, but the RCC.

When I state it is a doctrine it is a doctrine.

//And that the Sacriment of Conformation is not necessary or needed or is even the TRUE DOCTRINE of the RCC.//

Again, you keep changing my words. Or you are confused on my words.

You JUST agreed with me.

Why the change of heart?

Sacrament of Confirmation one of seven Sacraments of the RCC and Orthodox Church.

//special than others if they have participated in this Sacriment of Confirmation.//

The Sacrament is FREE to all.

//Thank you for clarifying that for all.---kathr4453

Your welcome
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/2/16


john9346:

You wrote: Let me ask you a question so we can establish understanding do you believe the bible is "Divine-in-Origin." or "Human-in-Origin."??

There are some books that are of divine origin. There are some books that are of human origin. However, God himself did not tell us which is which. The index of which books is which is of human origin.

I will respond to more of your question, but will you answer this question.

I'm listening...
---StrongAxe on 11/2/16


strongaxe ask, "How do you know that the Gospel of John is scripture in the first place? If it's god-breathed, it's scripture. But how do YOU know it's god breathed, without presuming it's scripture in the first place? This is circular reasoning."
Let me ask you a question so we can establish understanding do you believe the bible is "Divine-in-Origin." or "Human-in-Origin."??

I will respond to more of your question, but will you answer this question.
---john9346 on 11/2/16


strongaxe states, "Exactly. This is confirmation by CONCENSUS - i.e. the collected opinions of men, NOT written by God."

Sir, respectfully, have you even read the Church Fathers?? When Augustine stated this to Faustus he was referring to the Old and New Testament.

He was telling faustus that the "Scriptures." he opposed which was the "OT." was "Written by God."

Here is how he ended the same paragraph:

" This shows that the established authority of Scripture must outweigh every other, for it derives new confirmation from the progress of events which happen, as Scripture proves, in fulfillment of the predictions made so long before their occurrence."
---john9346 on 11/2/16


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samuelBB7 states, "That the doctrine of once saved always saved says people can live in sin and think they are saved."

Sir, this is a mischaracterization.

The doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints also known as once saved always saved is the teaching that once God saves an individual he or she can not lose or fall from salvation because God is able to keep them from doing so.

It is God who does it not man.

Salvation is a gift from God not a right of man.

God owes us nothing but his Just Condemnation of hell.
---john9346 on 11/2/16


john9346:

How do you know that the Gospel of John is scripture in the first place? If it's god-breathed, it's scripture. But how do YOU know it's god breathed, without presuming it's scripture in the first place? This is circular reasoning.

Note, confirmed by many nations,(OT) Successions of apostles (NT) see context par 1-5.

Exactly. This is confirmation by CONCENSUS - i.e. the collected opinions of men, NOT written by God. I am not saying that such opinions are invalid or bad - merely that they are NOT scriptural as such. To find a definition of scripture, one must NECESSARILY look outside of scripture itself.

Any book could contain the words in Jn 10:4-5, without the rest of it being scripture.
---StrongAxe on 11/2/16


Reuben ask, "Tell me John than how did sola scriptura inform you that the books that you have in your hand are the correct books."

Well sir, the "Scriptures." are "Theopneustos." meaning God-breathe meaning "Scripture's Origin is God Alone.

In the statement you cited from Augustine he referenced back how the church knew the Scriptures." said, ""The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles,."

Note, confirmed by many nations,(OT) Successions of apostles (NT) see context par 1-5.

Also, Toledo states, "Received." pass-tense to have been given by someone else.
---john9346 on 11/1/16


strongaxe said, "While such criteria can be used to disualify, they can't be used to qualify. If you saw the Book of Bob, that said "The Book of Bob is the Word of God", would you believe it?"

Sir, to be Interlectually Honest one always starts with the author/origin to know authenticity sir please be honest this is logical you should know this.

"Yes, but how do YOU know whether a book (e.g. John) IS scripture or not?"

Sir, Jn 10:4-5 is your answer. Please read them.

"I NEVER said they were the same - only that one depends on the other.

And this is what you either can not nor will not establish although you have been stating for the last Several Blogs.
---john9346 on 11/1/16


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"
The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby."
---john9346 on 11/1/16


Reuben states, "Sola Scriptura(Bible Alone in Latin) cannot tell us which are inspired and which are not!"

So let me get this correct God who is an Infinite Eternal Spiritual Being is unable to guide mankind to the truth??
---john9346 on 11/1/16


You are putting your view of point doctrine of the RCC as the TRUE DOCTRINE of the RCC./////

Ok I feel so much better now that you have openly proclaimed that not all doctrine that you, Nicole post here is the TRUE DOCTRINE of the RCC. And that the Sacriment of Conformation is not necessary or needed or is even the TRUE DOCTRINE of the RCC. So I guess it is again just more TRADITIONS man has made up misleading people to believe something that makes them "feel" more special than others if they have participated in this Sacriment of Confirmation. Thank you for clarifying that for all.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/16


Reuben ask, "Sola Scriptura says everything we need to know that is necessary for our salvation comes from the Bible alone. True or False?"

For your information:

Here is definition:


The doctrine of Sola Scriptura teaches that the "Scriptures." are the "Final Authority." for faith and practice for the Christian. In other words, all traditions, thoughts, and opinions must come in to "Total Subjection." to the "Scriptures."


1. "
---john9346 on 11/1/16


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//there is nothing in Acts 2 stating one needs a Sacrimental Confirmation to witness.//

You are putting your view of point doctrine of the RCC as the TRUE DOCTRINE of the RCC.

I didn't say you HAVE to have the Sacrament of Confirmation in order to WITNESS.

You asked where in the Bible speaks about the Sacrament of Confirmation and it is in Acts 2. Read it again.

//When on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came to the upper room do you see any sort of Sacrimental Confirmation happening? NO! But Oh My, we do see a whole lot of WITNESSING GOING ON---kathr4453

???

BECAUSE the Holy Spirit fell upon them and THEN the whole lot of witnessing INDEED was going on as you put it.

WE AGREE!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/1/16


Jesus never said that once He rose from the dead and then would give the Holy Spirit to ALL BELIEVERS that includes GIFTS for ministry in which all are given, that any ceremony or ritual was needed to take place afterword in order for that empowerment so work.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16
Nicole, I just reposted my WHOLE SENTENCE. YOU ended where the comma is, and the next word after the comma is not CAPITALIZED. YOU left off where I underlined. YOU go back and look.

You answered...YES Acts 2. Now please show in Acts 2 where any ceremony of a Sacriment of Confirmation took place prior to their witnessing.



AND STOP TRYING TO CHANGING THE SUBJECT. Just answer the question Nicole and stop playing games.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/16


//but you do have to or should post the FULL SENTENCE//

I just did!

//if you don't want to come across as some sleazy politician running..//

There you go AGAIN!.

//You did not post the WHOLE SENTENCE.//

Go back and look. The prior sentenced ended with a period. Your new sentence had an capital letter to the first word.

//Sometimesit takes a while for one to figure... ---kathr4453

//And again there is nothing in Acts 2 stating one needs a Sacrimental Confirmation to witness.--kathr4453 on 10/31/16

WHAT no apology for calling the Sacrament a 'wingding'????

Oh, I forgot.

You can be rude, crude and mean spirited all you want, but God help the rest of us if we return the favor.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/1/16


The opposite of Sola Scriptoria is that men with their traditions can replace the words of scripture and contradict what the Bible teaches. That the words of men are more Holy then the inspired word of GOD.

Sola scriptura teaches that all doctrines must be under the authority of Scripture. So your statement about it not being true is based on a misunderstanding of what the term means.

In the days of Jesus. The leaders replaced scripture with their authority. That has also happened in Christian churches.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/1/16


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Like I have been stating to you again and again canonicity and Sola Scriptura are not the same thing (2 different categories)

Not sure why you insist on confusing the 2.
---john9346 on 10/31/16

But both need each other.

Sola Scriptura says everything we need to know that is necessary for our salvation comes from the Bible alone. True or False?

So knowing which scriptures are inspired and which scriptures are not inspired are necessary for ones salvation? Yes Or No

Sola Scriptura(Bible Alone in Latin) cannot tell us which are inspired and which are not!

Conclusion: Sola Scriptura is not and can not and has not been true.
---Ruben on 11/1/16


john9346:

Your reasoning is flawed...

It was Reductio Ad Absurdum. You reject its canonicity, not by what other authorities say, just what it says about itself. While such criteria can be used to disualify, they can't be used to qualify. If you saw the Book of Bob, that said "The Book of Bob is the Word of God", would you believe it? If not, why not?

The church fathers attested...

Yes, but how do YOU know whether a book (e.g. John) IS scripture or not?

Not sure why you insist on confusing the 2

I NEVER said they were the same - only that one depends on the other. A house rests on a foundation. You can't build a stable house without FIRST having a stable foundation.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/16


Reuben,

Sir, first, you didn't state the entire paragraph of Book 13 Par 5 of what Augustine stated.

Tell us, in this paragraph as well as canon 12 of the council of Toledo where do they state, declare, that like Strongaxe is asserting,"The Scriptures."depended on them.
---john9346 on 10/31/16

John9346,

Tell me John than how did sola scriptura inform you that the books that you have in your hand are the correct books and that it did not depends on bishops or men to tell us which books are legit?
---Ruben on 11/1/16


Luke you stated that genuine Christians will be saved and cannot be lost. You also asked if I knew if the Baptist pastor was saved.

I don't know who is a genuine Christian and I don't know who is saved or lost. Only GOD knows which is which. Since it is impossible for me to know the heart of others.

What scripture tells me is that many who think they are saved are lost. Matthew 25.

That the doctrine of once saved always saved says people can live in sin and think they are saved.

I know that Scripture says genuine Christians will love GOD love their neighbor and die to self in their actions. They will keep the Commandments of GOD.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/1/16


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That was your FULL Sentence.

With the 125 word limit I don't have to post your whole post to quote you.

---Nicole_Lacey on 10/31/16

Nicole, no you don't have to post the whole post, but you do have to or should post the FULL SENTENCE if you don't want to come across as some sleazy politician running for office trying to defame the opponent. You did not post the WHOLE SENTENCE. And again there is nothing in Acts 2 stating one needs a Sacrimental Confirmation to witness. One only needs the indwelling Holy Spirit. When on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came to the upper room do you see any sort of Sacrimental Confirmation happening? NO! But Oh My, we do see a whole lot of WITNESSING GOING ON.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/16


Reuben,

Sir, first, you didn't state the entire paragraph of Book 13 Par 5 of what Augustine stated.

Tell us, in this paragraph as well as canon 12 of the council of Toledo where do they state, declare, that like Strongaxe is asserting,"The Scriptures."depended on them.
---john9346 on 10/31/16


strongaxe states, "Would you obey the Satanic Bible?"

Your reasoning is flawed because all one has to do is learn and get to know the author of this book to not obey it.

The church fathers attested that if one reads the "Scriptures." they would be able to determine truth from error.

See, Jn 10:4-5.

The author of the bible is God not man.

It seems you are unable to cite a church father who held to your claim that Sola Scriptura depended on canonicity.

Like I have been stating to you again and again canonicity and Sola Scriptura are not the same thing (2 different categories)

Not sure why you insist on confusing the 2.
---john9346 on 10/31/16


strongaxe and Nicole,

First, I do know some people lie, are dishonest, or can over look things I respect both of you although I disagree,however, I would never go out of my way to directly state, "Falsely about either one of you."

So, after I correct your "Direct False Statements." concerning me I think you both need to apologize for engaging in "Falsehood."
---john9346 on 10/31/16


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Now I answered strongaxe and Nicole's Objections on the following blogs:

"Decided Books are Canonical.", "The Original Scripture.", "24 hour Earth Spin.", "God of Opinions of Man.", "What is Theopneustos.", "Explain Bible History.", "Strike Books from Canon.", "Was There A Bible Deletion.", "7-Ecumenecal Councils.", "Who Taught Jesus The Bible Blog.", "Is Sola Scriptura a Theory.", "How does God Communicate.", and "Is Sola Scriptura Right."

Everyone, read for yourselves to see if Strongaxe and Nicole's Objections were not answered.


Thank You,

John
---john9346 on 10/31/16


Samuel, you said:
" friends who were Baptist and told they could not be lost. . . . they joined the Seventh day Adventist church. The Pastor then told them they were lost."
Samuel, how do you even know that pastor was saved?
Did you not know, genuine Christians never lose salvation. Here is Jesus words:
"I will never leave you,.." I believe that never means never. He also says:
"This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day" John 6:39. Another passage:
"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never parish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand" John 10:28.
---Luke on 10/31/16


//You misquoted me by not posting the "whole sentence" regarding the wingding.---kathr4453

****Sometimesit takes a while for one to figure out what their gift is, and when we do, we don't have a Sacriment Confirmation wingding when that happens. ---kathr4453 on 10/27/16

That was your FULL Sentence.

With the 125 word limit I don't have to post your whole post to quote you.

You know that it is called Sacrament of Confirmation.

No other title attachment needed.

You used 'wingding' as an adjective.

If you left it out the full sentence would have LOST NOTHING.

So adding that word you were RUDE, trying to be CUTE and SMART.

You know it and so did I.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/31/16


Sir, I asked you to provide me 1 church father who believed and taught your claim that the "Scriptures." depended upon them. John 9346



"The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you." Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichean, 13:5 (c. A.D. 400).

"If any one shall say, or shall believe, that other Scriptures, besides those which the Catholic Church has received, are to be esteemed of authority, or to be venerated, let him be anathema." Council of Toledo, Canon 12 (A.D. 400).
---Ruben on 10/31/16


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Nicole, I accept your apology. I have one other issue here with you. You misquoted me by not posting the "whole sentence" regarding the wingding. You came back and said "ACTS 2...Yes He Did. ". Where in acts 2 does it say there needs to be some sort of ceremonial sacramental whatever when one received their Gift for the ministry? By only posting 1/2 of my statement, you falsified my post. The fact is Nicole, my statement was the truth, not a rude statement. When Paul received the Holy Spirit he immediately went to the Temple and preached the Gospel. We see no sacrimental or Sacriment of anything or taking any vows etc etc initiating Paul into the ministry or witnessing.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/16


//Nicole, I'm not sure if your statement was made out of ignorance or if you were just being rude and crude...I think your comment here was RUDE and unChristlike.---kathr4453

TRUE!

I apologizes for being RUDE and CRUDE.

I have to explained I have feelings just like you.

You CAN'T find a post of mine INSULTING yours or anyone else's beliefs.

//we don't have a Sacriment Confirmation WINDDING when that happens.---kathr4453 on 10/27/16

Remember if you strike at someone don't get UPSET if he or she strikes back.

It WASN'T charitable on my part and I should have been the bigger person.

I reacted on a natural plane and not by the Grace of Jesus.

For that I am SORRY!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/30/16


john9346:

You wrote: And again, this objection has been answered multiple times.

No. You keep arguing around it, but you never provided the references I requested.

Sir, I asked you to provide me 1 church father who believed and taught your claim that the "Scriptures." depended upon them.

Would you obey the Satanic Bible? Of course not! That's because it isn't scripture. But you couldn't make that determination until you FIRST know it isn't scripture. So, the knowledge of what books are or aren't scripture is a NECESSARY prerequisite for obeying scripture. This is logic so basic, it should never need to be explained to anyone, which might be why church fathers may not have mentioned it.
---StrongAxe on 10/30/16


Since you are not a Believer it don't worry about being JESUS' Witness to the ends of the world.

I shall happily be His witness!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/28/16

Nicole, I'm not sure if your statement was made out of ignorance or if you were just being rude and crude.

Every born again Christian IS A WITNESS , since CHRIST IN THEM, is forever witnessing to the unsaved through us whether we are aware of it or not. That is what being HIS BODY here on earth is all about. We are continuing HIS ministry here on earth. If I wasn't a believer Nicole, I wouldn't be here on line WITNESSING TO THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ. I think your comment here was RUDE and unChristlike.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/16


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I have sat down and read the entire Bible about 10 times. I have read the New Testament over 15.---Samuelbb7 on 10/28/16

This is why you think you understand, but you deny what you read. You can't believe yoking to Jesus (being His slave or prisoner) (or obeying Commandments) and still believe freewill.

Scripture says that salvation is a gift, and that God's gifts are irrevocable. Yet you don't believe what God says. You believe your logic. Logic is not faith.


LOVE is what Jesus taught. Love obeys the law.

You misunderstand: Love the Lord thy God . . . love thy neighbour. . .

Love IS the Law.
---aservant on 10/29/16


//strongaxe ask, "Please show, entirely from WITHIN scripture, a list of which books are scripture, and which ones are not."

****And again, this objection has been answered multiple times.

Sir, seriously, are you paying attention??---john9346 on 10/28/16


I been paying attention and you haven't answer.

You NEVER answered the same question StrongAxe and I keep asking you for the LAST several months in several different in blogs.

1st you won't answer, then 2nd you answer SEVERAL times that you ALREADY answered it.

Why won't you just answer with the SAME answer several times instead of wasting words claiming you already answered it?

PLEASE, for a change just REPEAT your ANSWER!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/29/16


strongaxe ask, "Please cite chapter and verse of ANY other book of scripture that says the gospel of John is scripture."

Sir, from my time of dialogging with you on this topic several times, this objection has been answered Multiple Times.

strongaxe ask, "Please show, entirely from WITHIN scripture, a list of which books are scripture, and which ones are not."

And again, this objection has been answered multiple times.

Sir, seriously, are you paying attention??
---john9346 on 10/28/16


strongaxe ask, "Please show, entirely from WITHIN scripture, a list of which books are scripture, and which ones are not."

And again, this objection has been answered multiple times.

Sir, are you paying attention??

strongaxe,

Sir, are you going to answer my question.

For the Second time here:

strongaxe,

Sir, I asked you to provide me 1 church father who believed and taught your claim that the "Scriptures." depended upon them.

---john9346 on 10/28/16


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//Jesus never said that once He rose from the dead and then would give the Holy Spirit to ALL BELIEVERS that includes GIFTS for ministry in which all are given,//

YES HE DID! Acts 1:8

It happened in Acts 2

I guess Jesus KNOWS what He is talking about!

Left out a step. Jesus had to Ascend to Heaven FIRST.

All Believers received the Holy Spirit.

Remember when all the Jews could understand each other languages for the first time. Why? So they can understand the message of Jesus

//we don't have a Sacriment Confirmation wingding when that happens.---kathr4453

Since you are not a Believer it don't worry about being JESUS' Witness to the ends of the world.

I shall happily be His witness!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/28/16


john9346:

You wrote: Sir, error, many times the writers of "Scripture." quote each other.

You refuted my claim that no scripture claims John is scripture. Please cite chapter and verse of ANY other book of scripture that says the gospel of John is scripture. If you can't, my statement is NOT in error.

This is only true if there is no, "God."

Please show, entirely from WITHIN scripture, a list of which books are scripture, and which ones are not.

Sir, do you believe in the existence of God?

Yes, but what I believe is irrelevant to this question. Sola Scripture depends on what scripture IS and SAYS, not what some blogger like me believes about it.
---StrongAxe on 10/28/16


I have sat down and read the entire Bible about 10 times. I have read the New Testament over 15.

I read my Bible in just small sections now. But I still read the Bible.

True Pharisees will drop what the believe to attack others. Just like those who taught eternal security denied it to my friends when they changed churches.

LOVE is what Jesus taught. Love obeys the law. Because breaking the law is to not love.

You cannot love someone and steal from them. Read Romans 6,7
---Samuelbb7 on 10/28/16


About what is scripture > if we do not have love, our understanding profits us nothing, I would say going by 1 Corinthians 13:2.

And 2 Corinthians 3:3-4 says we are the "epistle of Christ". Wouldn't this mean we are canon scripture of the Holy Spirit?

This would be in God's love, I understand, how God's love has us becoming in our nature > 1 John 4:17. This would be not only words, but the deeper love meaning of God's word.
---Bill on 10/28/16


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strongaxe states, "There are no scriptures elsewhere that say "John is scripture"."

Sir, error, many times the writers of "Scripture." quote each other.

strongaxe states, "Ultimately, the determination of what is in scripture MUST originate OUTSIDE scripture itself."

This is only true if there is no, "God."

Sir, do you believe in the existence of God?
---john9346 on 10/27/16


John, I have notices you put all your faith in what the church fathers believe, as well as statements of faith etc etc. You have shown over and over you are taught by man and not by God or the Holy Spirit. That's nothing more than head knowledge and brainwashing. Yet we see just how powerful that is, as we see so many like Mormonism, JW's etc really have a strong hold over folks.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16


. . . friends who were Baptist and told they could not be lost. . . . they joined the Seventh day Adventist church. The Pastor then told them they were lost.

What do you think? ---Samuelbb7 on 10/26/16


Stop listening to the Pharisees and Sadducees of this era.

Carve out time daily to read the Bible (KJV). Ask Master Jesus to "open Scripture to you". I will also ask Him, so we are "any 2". Please read first, Lk 24:13-32.

Write down each question as soon as it comes to you. When finished reading, ask the Lord to answer the first question, and write down what comes to you (no matter how weird). Repeat for each question. The Holy Spirit will teach you.
---aservant on 10/28/16


Can you give us just 1 church father who taught, believed, and defended what you just "Stated to be factual."

---john9346 on 10/27/16

What does the Church Fathers have to do with this??
---Ruben on 10/27/16


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strongaxe,

Sir, I asked you to provide me 1 church father who believed and taught your claim here.

We are now dealing with facts and evidence not logical philosophical.

Which logically you should now be able to give 1 church father who held your claim since you have been stating this for 4 postings.
---john9346 on 10/27/16


Nicole, it doesn't matter. Jesus never said that once He rose from the dead and then would give the Holy Spirit to ALL BELIEVERS that includes GIFTS for ministry in which all are given, that any ceremony or ritual was needed to take place afterword in order for that empowerment so work. There are listed several gifts including evangelism. And GOD decides what GIft He has given each one of us. Sometimes it takes a while for one to figure out what their gift is, and when we do, we don't have a Sacriment Confirmation wingding when that happens.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/16


Kathr, please read CCC 1285 AGAIN. I gave you Scripture in which 1285 got it's instructions. From Jesus Himself!

1285 ...a special strength of the Holy Spirit. Hence they are, as true witnesses of Christ, MORE strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith by word and deed."

The Faith is Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior!

Acts 1:8 "..But you will RECEIVE POWER when the Holy Spirit COMES on you, and you will be MY WITNESSES in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." - Jesus is speaking. He trumps Paul if you are confused about Ephesians 4

Which it doesn't deny what Jesus said in ACTS 1:8

Remember the Apostles were NOT witnessing about Jesus UNTIL after Pentecost.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/27/16


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