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Is Purgatory A Second Chance

I wonder how many people here think that Immaculate Conception means that Mary was born of a virginal conception, or that Purgatory is a second chance for salvation.

If any here think that, it was not a Roman Catholic source that said these things.

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The Who Is Mary Bible Quiz
 ---Cluny on 11/4/16
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Nicole. You quote Matt 7:21-24 those who DO THE WILL OF GOD enter His kingdom.

What's God's will?
John 6:40.
this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life

Confirmed in 1Thess 4:3
this is the will of God, your sanctification (which we have through Christ's sacrifice, Heb 10:10):that you should abstain from (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by deeds of the law, Gal 4: 24).

The criminal on the cross who believed on Jesus, obeyed the will of God and went to paradise on the day he died. There was no purgatory for that criminal as Christ's sacrifice totally purified/cleansed him.
---Haz27 on 12/2/16


Nicole: I'll answer your questions, if I can understand them.

"Are the Jews WRONG for praying for their dead because they KNOW they will be in the RESURRECTION?"

Independent of the reason, I believe that it is wrong to pray for the dead because they are NOT alive, but are in the grave awaiting resurrection. This is what the some of the Jews (including Jesus) believed. See Martha's response about Lazarus:

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Other Jews (Sadducees) did not believe in the resurrection.

There are two general resurrections: one for the righteous at Jesus 2nd coming and one for the wicked 1000 years later.

---Jerry6593 on 12/2/16


29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace...30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, ....

Nicole, sanctification is to be made Holy, pure, complete, IN CHRIST. And here YOU just insulted God.....called Him a LIAR. his VENGEANCE will not be some temporary Pergetory Nicole, but a PERMANENT place of HELL for all who have blasphemed the Blood of the Covenant.

Why are you on CN attacking the Gospel Nicole. Find some RCC site to blog on. It's obvious you are here to assault Christians.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


You can't sin all you want just because you think Jesus' Blood will save you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/16

OK! So how long do you expect to be in Purgatory Nicole? Will it be days, weeks, months , years, centuries, millennial, or eternity? Where is any scripture giving a duration, based on sin? Or any comment saying...PRAY his/her pergetory will be shortened by your prayers.

Jesus Death and resurrection life is what SAVES Nicole. We are Justified by His Blood YES, and we are SAVED BY HIS LIFE, two entirely different entities.

But YOU believe water Baptism saves you, not Jesus Blood, death or Resurrection. So are you saying your water baptism has no power to save??? I agree, but Jesus resurrection life DOES.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


//The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible---kathr4453

Matthew 21-24

Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into PRACTICE is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

GOD ISN'T STUPID.

You can't sin all you want just because you think Jesus' Blood will save you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/16




Jerry, since kathr, and StrongAxe are too afraid to answer my question will you please answer the question?

If the Jewish People celebrate Hanukkah yearly and they voiced where it came from and WHAT HAPPENED. (So called Jewish Kathr doesn't know her Jewish roots.)

They (Jews not Kathr) LOVE Judas Maccabees and believe everything he did was blessed by God. Even have both Scriptures NAMED after him and his brothers.

They DO NOT dispute or disapprove of Judas Maccabees praying for his JEWISH DEAD Soldiers.

Are the Jews WRONG for praying for their dead because they KNOW they will be in the RESURRECTION?

2 Maccabees 12:43
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/16


Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities, the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. To say that we must suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation. OT and NEW.

I know this offends anyone who does not BELIEVE Jesus died for our sin.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


Thanks Kathr. I don't generally have time to read very far down the blog. My go-to texts to protect from such doctrines as purgatory, ghosts, spiritualism, etc. is this:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


---Jerry6593 on 12/1/16


You have to understand that the JEWISH people believe the same thing about you, Kathr

Just because your Bible said Jesus died and rose again doesn't make it God's TRUTHS

They have Hanukkah written in their Scripture and Celebrate their festival their WAY.

Jews think you are crazy believing Jesus is the Messiah.
But has a Jew EVER insulted or called your faith PAGAN?

Understand one thing. To the Jews you are a PAGAN

//Even 2 Maccabees stating Jeremiah appeared in the sky is ALSO FICTION.--kathr4453.

The feeling is mutual. They believe Jesus' death and Resurrection is ALSO FICTION!

They behave Godly and refuse to argue with you.

Not me. I will FIGHT FOR Jewish people ALL DAY LONG!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


No one said the RCC started that either Nicole. BUT you need to understand that Just because a Jew wrote something didn't make it GODS TRUTH. Nor was Judah Mc a prophet. They lived for years co-mingling with Gentiles. It's possible that came from pagan beliefs. Also Nicole, there are many works of Jewish Mythology ....like Adam having a wife Named Lilith before Eve. Many here believe that too, but there is nothing in scripture to support such things. Please don't believe everything you read, just because a Jew wrote it as though it were sacred. Even 2 Maccabees stating Jeremiah appeared in the sky is ALSO FICTION.....
---kathr4453 on 11/30/16




//when the temple was rededicated, it was for the dedication of the one in 2 Chronicles//

No it wasn't. There ISN'T a YEARLY CELEBRATION of the Temple by the Jews!

NONE! You made it up!

Name the yearly celebration before the year 200BC by the Jewish People in the OT or even NOW?

You CAN'T! You are making up Jewish Celebrations

//It was not a NEW established celebration called Hannakuah.//

Yes because God preformed a NEW Miracle for the Jewish People WHICH was a single day worth of light LASTED 8 days!

//The word is not even in the Maccabees.---kathr4453

It doesn't matter. The Jews who CELEBRATE Hanukkah CLAIMS the events that are WRITTEN in Maccabees is about Hanukkah
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


Maccabbees doesn't establish doctrine, but it proves the existence of a Jewish practice that was continued like Temple Liturgy into the Christian Church. purgatory as a separate place from hell is a distinct issue from praying for the dead. St. Perpetua waiting to die as a martyr didn't hesitate to pray for her dead unbelieving brother, so the earth church didn't teach against this. Paul spoke of Onesiphorus in the same terms the maccabbees spoke, that God have mercy on him on that day (day of judgement).
---Christine_Erikson on 11/30/16


Maccabees PROVES the Catholic Church DIDN'T start the concept of PRAYING for the dead.

//Maccabees is NOT DOCTRINE as was pointed out to Nicole.//

ONLY you CLAIM it is a DOCTRIINE NOT ME!

It's Jewish and our SCRIPTURE!.

Scripture ISN'T doctrine.

Can you understand that?

//Some Jewish sects didn't even believe in the resurrection.//

Judas Maccabees did. Your point?

2 Maccabees 12:43b

In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the RESURRECTION in mind,

//possibly why even the Jews didn't include the Maccabees as scripture.---kathr4453

The JEWS who celebrate Hanukkah HAVE both Maccabees as THEIR SCRIPTURE!

Is that okay with you?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


//you presume winter means what?//

Official dates.

//It does not state what month.//

To everyone else it STARTS Dec 21th and ENDS March 20.

//Winter could actually have begin in the 7th month,//

ONLY IN KATHR'S MIND!

Now you can say it can SNOW outside of winter, but it still isn't WINTER YET.

Or are you saying John was too stupid to KNOW when is it WINTER and NOT WINTER?

//What we do know is when it was celebrated in the Maccabees when the temple...was celebrated a month or 2 later because of the war.--Kathr

Are you saying God didn't KNOW about the War? Or knew and had to WAIT for the war to END to do HIS Miracle?

God is the MASTER of Time and knows when it is WINTER
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


Jerry, if you go down to 11/25 thereabouts, the conversation is about praying for the dead, as Nicole pointed to the verses in Maccabees, and that is where the RCC gets the doctrine of purgatory. BUT interestingly enough, no other scripture in all the OT or New suggest we pray for,the dead, as though that will change the outcome of someone's eternal destination. It is appointed once for man to die, and then the judgement.

Maccabees is NOT DOCTRINE as was pointed out to Nicole. Some Jewish sects didn't even believe in the resurrection. So just because Jews wrote about the history of the war doesn't mean THEIR beliefs were absolute truth and possibly why even the Jews didn't include the Maccabees as scripture.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/16


OK girls, could ya'll pause the fight a minute and explain to me what all this temple-candle, etc. stuff has to do with immaculate conception and purgatory?


---Jerry6593 on 11/30/16


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Nicole, you presume winter means what? It does not state what month. Winter could actually have begin in the 7th month, and continued into the 9th and 10th. What we do know is when it was celebrated in the Maccabees when the temple was rededicated, it was for the dedication of the one in 2 Chronicles but was celebrated a month or 2 later because of the war. It was not a NEW established celebration called Hannakuah. The word is not even in the Maccabees.
The original dedication of Solomon's Temple was never replaced with a new holiday.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


//John 10 does not say RE- dedication, or anything about any Festival of Lights. ...sooooo the festival of DEDICATION spoken of in John 10 is NOT Hanukkah,//


Obviously you didn't finish reading John 10:22.
John DOES tell you WHICH dedication by the word 'Winter'

As I wrote in the other blogs.

Read 2 Chronicles 7:10 speaking about the Seventh Month, BUT 1 Maccabees 4:52 speaks about A DIFFERENT MONTH THE NINTH MONTH.

IS THERE A LANGUAGE BARRIER HERE?

Or do you have problems with numbers when it is written out?

//The Temple was not rebuilt in 165 BC,---kathr4453

Who is SPEAKING about rebuilding??

How did the word 'Rededication' changed to 'rebuilt' in your mind?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


//Nicole, you can NA NA. NA ALL YOU WANT.//

As usual you have changed my words. I said you need to stop saying that not me.

//Yet I asked you for chapter and verse, and here you still have no,proof except to act like a spoiled brat.//

Again name calling.

You SAID in was in Maccabees and trying to put it on me and demanding evidence on your terms.

AGAIN Hanukkah is in BOTH Maccabees.

Detailed components of Hanukkah is in Jewish Scripture Scrolls.

Again, can Jewish People have different Scriptures than you? Answer Yes or NO

//There were 7 candles lit when the temple was rededicated.--kathr4453


Give chapter and verse? 2 Chronicle 7 isn't a rededication it is the FIRST dedication!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


Nicole, here is where it gets tricky with you, that Rob said you were LAZY, that is in paying attention to what people are saying. OF COARSE the first dedication and RE- dedication are two entirely different events. John 10 does not say RE- dedication, or anything about any Festival of Lights. ...sooooo the festival of DEDICATION spoken of in John 10 is NOT Hanukkah, a completely and totally separate event. The Temple was not rebuilt in 165 BC, only cleansed and the alter where animal sacrifices were made was rebuilt..so says legend, however no one has ever been able to locate the original alter.

---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


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Nicole, you can NA NA. NA ALL YOU WANT. Yet I asked you for chapter and verse, and here you still have no,proof except to act like a spoiled brat. Even scholarly Jewish Rabbi's will tell you it is NOT IN THERE.

Nicole, I know how disappointing it is when someone tells us something that is simply not true. Mature adults however search out the truth, and say...I see. Spoiled brats who refuse to listen and learn, but insist they have to have it their way act just like you, scream, cry, throw tantrums, hate speech etc.

There were 7 candles lit when the temple was rededicated. NOT 8 or 9. Hanukah uses a 9 candle holder, not a 7.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


//Ok make up your mind Nicole, is it 8 candles or 9?????//

**The ninth candle is called the shamash or attendant candle. It is used to light the other ones.--Chanukah FAQs

//What you fail to understand Nicole is the ONLY WAY the Temple could be dedicated and cleansed is because they WON THEIR INDEPENDENCE OVER THE GREEKS. You cannot separate the two.---kathr4453

Yes I CAN because they are 2 DIFFERENT events with 2 different MAIN characters.

1st King Solomon 827 BC Dedication of Temple

2nd Judas Maccabees 165 BC Re-Dedication of the Temple.

Understand?

Just like we celebrate 2 different events involving Jesus Christ.

His Birth and Resurrection.

We are NO BETTER than the Jews
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


//Maccabees has no record of a Hanukah.//

If you DON'T READ THE BOOKS you CAN'T say anything.

Closing your ears and saying na na na na ISN'T going to change Facts!

You ask so childish.

//Maccabees has no record of a miracle of oil lasting 8 days.//

Only you keep SAYING THAT!

I said the Jewish People CLAIM what happened with Judas Maccabees when he rededicated the Temple NOT ME!

Argue with them NOT me!

COME OUT AND SAY IT!

You think the Jewish people are LYING about the 8 day candles LIGHTING not going out!

//that historical event.//

So was the Passover. SO WHAT?

Both the Passover and Maccabees is in THEIR SCRIPTURES whether you like it or NOT---kathr4453
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


No Nicole, let me say it again. Maccabees has no record of a Hanukah. Maccabees has no record of a miracle of oil lasting 8 days. Saying that Nicole in no way says I think the Jews are celebrating Hanukah wrong. Hanukah is celebrating the independence the Jews won over their enemies. That is wonderful. No one questions that historical event. Yes they have made it an 8 day celebration because they say the miracle of the oil burning was 8 days. However THAT is not in the original record in Maccabees. THAT was added 600 years later in the Talmud. The original after dedicating the cleansed Temple was because two Holy Days were combined making up for one that was put off because of the war.

Is there a language barrier here?
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


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Nicole, it's not about exile, but total annihilation of the Jewish people. From the time God scattered Israel after Solomon's disobedience to,today, history tells us that not only did Hitler want to totally wipe out the Jews, but those who were in command right after Alexander the Great died. Esther is also a story about the triumph of the Jewish people when even then Sinister men were trying to totally wipe out the Jews who were still in exile living under Gentile rule. Do you know the Jewish holiday that time in history is celebrated?
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


//there is NO verse in 1 or 2 Maccabees stating any such miracle of a candle burning for 8 days. Or that there was only enough oil for one candle and it lasted 8 days.---kathr4453

Can the Jewish people have their OWN Scripture without your approval?

STOP changing my words.

Hanukkah Event is in both Maccabees and the lengthy DETAILS is in the Jewish's Scroll of Antiochus.

Just come out and say it?

You believe the Jewish people are celebrating Hanukkah WRONG?

You DON'T think they can be TRUSTED to tell their OWN children what HAPPENED during the 8 days of Hanukkah.

They are more detailed during their PASSOVER celebration AS WELL not in EXODUS or OUR Bible.

Are they wrong for that as well?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/16


Nicole, there is NO verse in 1 or 2 Maccabees stating any such miracle of a candle burning for 8 days. Or that there was only enough oil for one candle and it lasted 8 days. Or there were 8 spears that were lit.. There are so may different versions of that supposed miracle. It's called a FABLE, that was added 600 years later...not in the Maccabees, but the Talmed, and not by any EYE WITNESS of the event.

The rededication of the Temple, NOT the miracle of the lasting oil is the meaning of this man made Holiday.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


Ok make up your mind Nicole, is it 8 candles or 9????? im only following YOUR lead, and did not CORRECT YOU when you first said 8 candles.

What you fail to understand Nicole is the ONLY WAY the Temple could be dedicated and cleansed is because they WON THEIR INDEPENDENCE OVER THE GREEKS. You cannot separate the two. And it went for 8 days because they combined 2 Jewish a HOLY DAYS, NOT because of some miracle not even mentioned in the Maccabees. That was added 600 years later in the Talmed, with NO PROOF, called FOLKLORE, FABLES, FAIRY TALES.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


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//It is precisely this inner spiritual strength that has enabled the Jewish people to outlast the greatest empires in history and have monumental impact on humanity.---kathr4453

WHAT?

The Jewish people have been in EXILED for 20 centuries.
Occupied for 26 centuries at the best.

Not until the 1947 War could they fight to have their Country placed on the Map.

//Even the horrible Crusades of the RCC.//

The Crusades were fighting the Muslim People NOT the Jewish people.

If it wasn't for the Catholic Crusades you would be Muslim today, indoors and silent.

The Muslims built their holy site over the Jewish's holiest site in Jerusalem.

You don't know history. Stop watching the History Channel.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/16


//I know what Hanukkah is and means Nicole. Do you?//

Yes, exactly what the Jewish People states it means.

Not your version!

8 stands for the 8 days the candle stayed lit.

CAN we ALLOW them to tell us instead of us TELLING THEM?

Just like you distort the Catholic Faith, Now you are distorting the Jewish' feasts?

You are NOT a practicing Jew!

They are and tell us WHY they have 8 candles, not you tell them.

//Was the RCC actually FOR the independence of Jews ---kathr4453 on 11/28/16

Independence? We SAVED their lives during the Holocaust years.

Name ONE Protestant Pastor that Saved almost a million Jews.

Because of the CC they are ALIVE to get their Independence!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/16


The light of Chanukah is symbolic of the inner spiritual strength of the Jewish people that despite all odds is never extinguished. It is precisely this inner spiritual strength that has enabled the Jewish people to outlast the greatest empires in history and have monumental impact on humanity. Even the horrible Crusades of the RCC.

Do you see the difference Nicole. The difference between this 8th candle as contrasted to the original 7. That would be like adding 9 or 10 for the 6 day war.... They took something sacred and made it common. I know you may find that a horrible statement, but it would be like adding Christmas tree lights to the CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


The Maccabees military victory in 165 B.C. gave the Jews in Judea independence for 100 years, until the Roman emperor Pompei conquered Judea in 63 B.C. This was the last time the Jews had their own country until the re-establishment of the State of Israel over 2,000 years later in 1948.

What is the meaning of Hanukkah?
The word Hanukkah means dedication, for the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem.

I know what Hanukkah is and means Nicole. Do you? Was the RCC actually FOR the independence of Jews and the RE- establishment of the State of Israel in 1948? Maybe there should be another candle added for 1948.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


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Nicole, here is the confusion. YOU say the RCC has the Maccabees in their Bible...because why, YOU all believe changing the Menorah from 7 candles to 8 is doctrine? Did you not know that ALL that was given to Moses including the Candlestick of 7, not 8 or 9 all pointed to Jesus Christ.

And that the celebration of Hanukah and victory over their captors and the rebuilding of the Temple also is the foundation of ZIONISM, that is, that Jerusalem IS the capital of the Jewish People, which the RCC has NEVER supported.

In Rev chapter 1, Jesus does not acknowledge 8 candlesticks, but 7.

Do you even KNOW what it all means?
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


Nicole...PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:
Matthew 15:2-3

2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Here is your answer, right from the mouth of GOD. When you called me a name, because I put the Command of God before the tradition of man, meaning TODAYJesus is the Light of the world....not lights on a candle, whether Jews believe in Jesus or not. Christians Nicole don't need to celebrate the time the Jews won victory over the Serians during the reign of Alexander the Great, any more than China needs to celebrate the victory of the USA over England.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/16


///I wonder how many people here think that Immaculate Conception means that Mary was born of a virginal conception, or that Purgatory is a second chance for salvation.

If any here think that, it was not a Roman Catholic source that said these things. ---Cluny on 11/4/16///

I wonder who came up with these imaginative concepts. Do you care to tell us Cluny?
---Leon on 11/27/16


**They found only a single container that was still sealed by the High Priest, with enough oil to keep the menorah in the Temple lit for a SINGLE day. They used this, yet it burned for EIGHT days.////

Nicole, will you show us chapter and verse where your above statement is in 1 and or 2 Maccabees .
---kathr4453 on 11/27/16


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//Thank you for the Sunday School Lesson//

Not Sunday, but on Saturday

//TODAY Jesus is the Light of the world, not 8 candles..---kathr4453

Stop trying to be SMART.

Jews DON'T believe in Jesus.

So they have HANUKKAH TODAY if that's OKAY with you?

Hanukkah candle is literally a one piece set of 8 candles. Because of one day worth of candle oil lasted 8 days.

The SAME JEWS who celebrate the Passover celebrate Hanukkah. Both of these events are in THEIR Scripture.

ANSWER:

Why do you believe they are RIGHT for believing in their Passover events, but WRONG for the Hanukkah events?

Jewish People are following TRADITIONS not Scripture?

Because Hanukkah ISN'T in Kathr's BIBLE?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/27/16


John 8: 12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Thank you for the Sunday School Lesson Nicole. But TODAY Jesus is the Light of the world, not 8 candles.

If perhaps Samuel Adams wrote about the history of our Revolutionary War, and being a religious man mentioned this or that about his faith, or proclaimed July 4th as some High Holy Day, does not make it DOCTRINE, but TRADITION.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/16


//Jews and Protestants do not acknowledge Maccabees as true doctrine.---kathr4453

I don't think you even KNOW what is Hanukkah. 8-CANDLES attached together.

**They found only a single container that was still sealed by the High Priest, with enough oil to keep the menorah in the Temple lit for a SINGLE day. They used this, yet it burned for EIGHT days.

The story of HANUKKAH is preserved in the BOOKS of the First and Second MACCABEES,...
Both books are included in the Old Testament used by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, since those churches consider the books deuterocanonical. They are NOT included in the Old Testament books in most Protestant Bibles, since most Protestants consider the books apocryphal---Wikipedia
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/27/16


//I read from a book authored by a Roman Catholic convert (Scott Hahn).//

Dr. Scott Hahn is an excellent Bible Scholar if not the best in the United States. A former Presbyterian Pastor.

Now Scott W. Hahn a Catholic theologian, contemporary author, consultant, professor, and Christian apologist.

//So he is not as reliable a source as a book getting endorsements from the church.-mike4879 on 11/26/16

I don't know understand your last statement.
But Dr. Hahn is a VERY reliable. Esp. more than me.

---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/16


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you what is written in Maccabees is TRUE HISTORY!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/16


True history, but not true doctrine. The Jews and Protestants do not acknowledge Maccabees as true doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/16


Nicole, I don't have a RACEST blog. I however cut and pasted your words to Rob, when you answered him back as though you were applying for a job as a slave on Gone with the Wind.

Nicole, you alone have embarrassed yourself with such childish behavior, and then twist it and accuse others of YOUR BAD BEHAVIOR. No one here cares one flip what color you are or your educational level. It's YOU who keeps making it an issue. Rob said NOTHING about you being out of line because you were black.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/16


Kathry, everyone READ your racist blogs. You can't erase them.

They revealed your TRUE heart.

//2 Maccabees was written 150 PLUS YEARS BEFORE Jesus death and resurrection,//

Because it HAPPENED 165 years before Christ's birth. ?

How can they tell the Jewish history before it happened????

//and does not address any doctrine address any doctrine AFTER THE CROSS,--kathr4453

REALLY? Because JESUS WAN'T BORN yet!

Do you believe in Hanukkah?

WHY?

The events are NOT in your Bible.

But it is in MY BIBLE!

1st and 2nd Maccabees.

Jesus CELEBRATED the festival of lights as well John 10:22-39

Ask any Jew! They will tell you what is written in Maccabees is TRUE HISTORY!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/16


Of the Roman Catholic teaching on Purgatory, I read from a book authored by a Roman Catholic convert (Scott Hahn). Of the Immaculate Conception, my source was a young Roman Catholic man who attended the same Bible study as me. I remember him representing the subject. So he is not as reliable a source as a book getting endorsements from the church. Thank you for correcting me.
---mike4879 on 11/26/16


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Nicole_Lacey. Note Titus 2:14 how we're purified.
WHO GAVE HIMSELF for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and PURIFY for Himself His own special people

This is confirmed in Act's 15:9 we're purified by faith, 1Pet 1:22 we purified our soul in obeying the truth (the gospel).

Christ's sacrifice did not fail to TOTALLY purify us, as scripture shows.

Christians are holy (Rom 11:16), the temple of God (1Cor 6:19), we're perfect (Heb 10:14), and COMPLETE in Christ (Col 2:10). That means there's no further process of purification or cleansing, as Christ's sacrifice did not fail.

How do you think the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" got to paradise the day he died?

---Haz27 on 11/26/16


HAZ, Nicole pulled out the race card when she insulted her own people she considers an embarrassment to her...

Hebrews 12 tell us as we speak the Spirits of JUST MEN made perfect, are right now IN HEAVEN. Paul is in Heaven. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Peter states an entrance has been made for him, as he was ready for his death.

2 Maccabees was written 150 PLUS YEARS BEFORE Jesus death and resurrection, and does not address any doctrine AFTER THE CROSS, of which that doctrine was kept hidden until Jesus rose from the Dead, which is CHRIST IN YOU the Hope of Glory. And Peter also addresses that TODAY no one is bought with silver and gold, but with the blood of Jesus, totally crushing 2 Maccabees 12:43-46.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/16


Haz and Samuel, one of my most favorite chapters in the Bible is 2 Peter Chapter 1... Read the WHOLE CHAPTER. Now it is interesting that what Peter writes goes totally against what Nicole is saying here...and its PETER saying it. He gives a list of all we need to do so that we too will have that CONFIDENCE when we die, just like he did, and NO WHERE even suggests a place called purgatory, or even describes any such place. His whole epistle both 1and 2 teach no such thing, and does not even teach Catholocism at all.

The Peter of scripture must not be the same Peter as the RCC says is their first Pope, because they don't believe the Peter of Scripture we know in the KJV.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/16


Cluny: Immaculate Conception is an inaccurate doctrine that God kept Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment of her conception. It was a dogma of the RCC in 1854. Mary, the mother of the God-MAN Jesus (not the mother of God), was not sinless. She also needed a savior & knew it.

Purgatory is real, BUT not as RCC doctrine...says. It began when God made a way of redemption (second chance for salvation) before putting "sin dead" Adam & Eve out of the Garden (G3:9-24). Since then mankind (all of us born into the deadness of original sin) has been in a "purgatory" upon Earth & given the opportunity to be redeemed (born again) in Jesus Christ.---Leon on 11/20/16


What say you Cluny?
---Leon on 11/26/16


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Haz27 ***The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in Gods GRACE and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect...is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.--Catholic Answers
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/16


//Name just ONE PERSON Nicole who,went to purgatory. If you can't name someone by name YOU LIE.--kathr4453

That's stupid. You CAN'T even name ONE person who went to Heaven?

So are you are LYING about the existence of Heaven?

Judas' fallen Soldiers in 2 Maccabees 12:38-46

39 Judas and his companions went to gather up the bodies of the fallen and bury them with their kindred...40b So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen...42..they prayed that the sinful deed might be FULLY BLOTTED OUT..

44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to PRAY for the DEAD. 46 Thus he made atonement for the DEAD that they might be ABSOLVED from their sin.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/16


Kathyr That is not a fair question since we cannot know who went to Purgatory if it did exist. which I don't believe. We don't know for sure who goes where.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/25/16


Kathr. Nobody pulls out the race card anywhere near like the Left does. The Left and their Islamist allies are the leaders in using such tactics. I suggest you start by criticizing them.

Nicole_Lacey. Your reference to irrelevant texts aside, did you notice that your argument maintains the error that the sacrifice of Jesus failed to take away our sin, and therefore we still are made to pay for them?

Can you show from RC doctrine why they believe that Christ's sacrifice failed to take away sin.

Jesus was manifest to take away our sin (1John 3:5). He did this on the cross. I suggest that any doctrine that suggests the sacrifice of Jesus failed to take away sin, and that we must therefore still pay for sin, is error.
---Haz27 on 11/25/16


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Because God doesn't send us to Hell, does that mean we DIDN'T deserve Hell?

No, it means God FORGAVE us.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/16


Well if we are forgiven then no one is sent to some imaginary place the RCC call purgatory. Jesus became sin for us and those who have put their faith in Him and His sacrifice for sin, that is His death and Resurrection have no need for some imaginary place called Purgatory.

Name just ONE PERSON Nicole who,went to purgatory. If you can't name someone by name YOU LIE. And it has NOTHING to do with being Black or from Alabama, in case you want to scream and pull out the race card again.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/16


//I found there is nothing in the Bible about purgatory.//

Many Passages, but a clear one is in 2 Maccabees 12:46

//The problem I see with the purgatory doctrine is that it implies that Christ's sacrifice did not take away sin.---Haz27

Purgatory is God's Mercy.

Punishment for sin is hell.

Once in Purgatory you will go to Heaven.

Luke 12:58-59 and the officer throw you into prison. I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Note the word Prison and you are doing the paying.

Plus, you will get out, but after all has been paid.

You can't get out of hell. It is permanent.

And you can't call Heaven a prison, nor would you want to leave.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/24/16


//if you don't want people to perceive you as being ignorant and a idiot, you really need to stop presenting yourself as being such!---Rob on 11/24/16

Sorry Master, I forgot my place.

I not half White like you.

I don't have the learning you have.

I just wishful thinking. Sorry.

I can't act White and I should know better!

I in Alabama.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/24/16


UNBELIEVABLE....NICOLE WANTS TO TURN EVERYTHING INTO A RACEST COMMENT. That was disgusting Nicole. Get her OFF CN. She has some kind of chip on her shoulder and is using this site to attack people.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/16


//if you don't want people to perceive you as being ignorant and a idiot, you really need to stop presenting yourself as being such!---Rob on 11/24/16

Sorry Master, I forgot my place.

I not half White like you.

I don't have the learning you have.

I just wishful thinking. Sorry.

I can't act White and I should know better!

I in Alabama.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/24/16


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Nicole_Lacey. As an ex RC myself, I found there is nothing in the Bible about purgatory.

The problem I see with the purgatory doctrine is that it implies that Christ's sacrifice did not take away sin. It implies that Christ's sacrifice was no better than the yearly sacrifices of bulls/goats for sin, which did not take away sin (Heb 10:1-3).

But Heb 10:10,14 says Christ's sacrifice sanctified/perfected us. Jesus was manifest to take away our sin (1John 3:5).
I suggest you reconsider the RC doctrine that alleges that Christ's sacrifice failed to sanctify/perfect us.

BTW, I applaud you at your composure in spite of Leon's trademark ridicule.
---Haz27 on 11/24/16


Nicole_Lacey, if you don't want people to perceive you as being ignorant and a idiot, you really need to stop presenting yourself as being such!
---Rob on 11/24/16


//I pray that I have never said or made you think that I am smarter then you. Or that you are not smart.//

Nooo, you have always being very gracious to me.

Intelligence seems to be very important to some here on CN. Leon and Rob.

I was just letting Leon know that it is OKAY to accept or recognizes someone else intelligence without feeling bad about oneself.

I have enough God giving confidence in myself to continue blogging on CN.

I LOVE MY CATHOLIC FAITH. It makes perfect sense to me.

I can't say I understand everything, but I Trust in Jesus and His Bride

When others call me names or criticizes my beliefs, it tells me that they are NOT confident in their OWN beliefs.

Happy Thanksgiving.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/16


Cluny:

The doctrine of Immaculate Conception does not make any sense. The whole notion of Original Sin is that Adam sinned in Eden, and he passes this sin down to all of his descendents. Everyone born of a human father has it. This would include Mary, as she was not the result of a virgin birth. Because Jesus was not born of a human father, he was free of that curse - because of his father, not his mother.

If Mary was sinless despite having a non-sinless father, it means God can just declare someone sinless without consequence - if he could do so for Mary, he could do so for everyone else. Why go through the complicated process of having his son die for our sins, if he could just wipe them away on a whim? It makes no sense.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/16


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Dear Nicole I pray that I have never said or made you think that I am smarter then you. Or that you are not smart.

I have been blessed with a love of reading and education. But there are many educated people who are not wise.

I have often agreed with you on points. But I also disagree with you at other times. But I strive to be polite and loving at all times. If I have failed please forgive me.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/23/16


Jerry, you have to UNDERSTAND the Jewish faith to understand CC.

St John XXIII (pope written about)

***In 1960, receiving a delegation of American Jewish leaders, he was presented with a Torah scroll to express gratitude for the Jewish lives he had saved during the Holocaust, and replied:

"We are all sons of the same heavenly Father. Among us there must ever be the brightness of love and its practice." He concluded: "I AM JOSEPH, YOUR BROTHER." (Genesis 45:4). In using his baptismal name, the pope was not only quoting the biblical self-revelation of Joseph to his brothers in Egypt,...It was a statement pregnant with theological implications.- Jewish virtual library
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/16


///Nicole:...I must disagree with the concepts of immaculate conception and Purgatory, since they are not in harmony with the Bible.

Rom 3:23 For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment...---Jerry6593 on 11/23/16///

Exactly Jerry.
---Leon on 11/23/16


Nicole: While I appreciate your sincere love for Christ, I must disagree with the concepts of immaculate conception and Purgatory, since they are not in harmony with the Bible.

Rom 3:23 For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:



---Jerry6593 on 11/23/16


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//Samuel: Obviously, you & most everyone else here is smarter than Nikki.//

This is most likely TRUE.

But, the Moderators on CN do not force anyone to take an exam in order to post on CN.

So, thus they are very kind and allow me to post.

//Poor delusional girl, she just doesn't get it. So sad!---Leon

Don't be sad. Jesus has risen.

But, I keep telling you that your Leader Saul Alinksey's 12 Rules for Radicals doesn't work on me.

Rule #5

Ridicule is mans most potent weapon. There is no defense. Its irrational. Its infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions

Sweetheart, try something else.

Move on.

It's getting old.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/22/16


Samuel: Obviously, you & most everyone else here is smarter than Nikki. Poor delusional girl, she just doesn't get it. So sad!
---Leon on 11/22/16


\\My understanding of the Immaculate Conception from Catholic sources is that Mary herself is born of a virgin.
---mike4879 on 11/21/16\\

You don't understand very well, do you?

Please give us ONE Catholic source that says this, mike.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/16


I agree GOD can save anyone. Being saved does not make us sinless. it makes us born again.

Since I have been reading the Bible and studying for over 40 years. I would not have missed that. You see I looked up from RCC sources why they said purgatory existed and the verses they used. I then read those verses. Most were from the Apocrypha books. Which I have in My Jerusalem Bible from the RCC translators. those verses did not convince me.

Again GOD bless and keep you.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/22/16


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//they gave their understanding of something that doesn't exist.//

Just because you CAN'T FIND the 'something' in the Bible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You haven't discovered it.

//Immaculate Conception means Mary was born sinless. Which is against the bible. Read Romans 3.---Samuelbb7

I believe I have explained this to you before.

God Saved Mary. Only God can Save.

God can save anyone at any point He wishes.

He chose to SAVE Mary at her conception.

He Saved me when I was 1 years old.

He Save people at 99 years old.

Romans 3 fits!

If I prevent you from falling into a manhole I can say I saved you.

If I pulled you our from the same manhole, I can say I saved you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/22/16


Scholars gave their understanding of something not in the bible and not found there. So they gave their understanding of something that doesn't exist.

Immaculate Conception means Mary was born sinless. Which is against the bible. Read Romans 3.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/21/16


//WHY?! So you can know the truth. The truth will set you free ONLY IF you believe it (Jn. 8:32) instead of the fables of men (Ro. 3:4).
You, little Nikki, would do well (be wise) to believe God instead of the church scholars. However, the choice is your.---Leon on 11/21/16

Which doesn't include your description of Purgatory. Your description isn't in the Bible.

Pay attention.

The question is WHY we should believe YOUR concept of Purgatory and NOT BIBLICAL SCHOLARS in the 1st 12 centuries?

In other words, WHY are you SMARTER than them? (other Biblical Scholars who gave their concept of what is Purgatory)
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/16


///...Why should we?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/16///

WHY?! So you can know the truth. The truth will set you free ONLY IF you believe it (Jn. 8:32) instead of the fables of men (Ro. 3:4).

You, little Nikki, would do well (be wise) to believe God instead of the church scholars. However, the choice is your.
---Leon on 11/21/16


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//all in Purgatory will end up eventually in heaven//

EXACTLY

//Immaculate Conception from Catholic sources is that Mary herself is born of a virgin.---mike4879 on 11/21/16

NO.

When Mary's father's sperm hit her mother's egg forming Mary is when God shielded/Graced at that exact moment from the Original Sin from Adam.

Thus God SAVED Mary from sin.

Mary's father's name Joachim Hebrew meaning 'To prepare'

Mary's mother's name Ann Hebrew meaning is 'Grace'

Together: To prepare for Grace = Mary.

That's why Gabriel greeted Mary NOT by name but by title "Full of Grace".

BTW, the only person in the Bible greeted by title and not name.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/16


"If any here think that, it was not a Roman Catholic source that said these things." Then what was the source Cluny?
---joseph on 11/21/16


//Purgatory is real, but not as RCC doctrine wrongly says. Purgatory began when God made a way of redemption (second chance for salvation) before putting "sin dead" Adam & Eve out of the Garden (G3:9-24). Since then mankind (all of us born into the deadness of original sin) has been in purgatory upon Earth & given the opportunity to be redeemed (born again) in Jesus Christ. ---Leon on 11/20/16

Really?

Who are you?

You want everyone to DROP all the Fathers of the Church (Biblical Scholars) from 12 Centuries DEFINITION/explanation of Purgatory for your concept of Purgatory?

Why should we?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/16


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