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Believe The Classic Creeds

Who here believes the four classic creeds (Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian, and Definition of Chalcedon)?

Who has problems with them? To what propositions do you object and why?

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 ---Cluny on 11/11/16
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John ,how many of the Church fathers did the Apostles have to read? What books and other helps did Jesus use when teaching His Apostles and disciples? And look at the arrogance of those who said of Peter, Look, he is an UNLEARNED MAN.
So you tell all of us John, why do you place yourselves among the arrogant looking down on those you think must read the Church Fathers in order Qualify to be the Elect? Seems like a glaring contradiction. Let him that glories, let him glory IN THE LORD, which I just did on my last post that went completely over your head.
How do we all know for a FACT, that you are not really " the Nicolaitans" found in Revelations that Jesus said of that doctrine THAT WHICH I HATE?
---kathr4453 on 12/27/16


John, what I have IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who is completely sufficient for me and all His Elect. The thing is, there is no way YOU have proof YOU are the Elect, since you claim all your learning came from men and Not God Himself. Those who are truly Gods Elect have no need that any MAN needs to teach them, because the TRUE ELECT have something others don't have........a direct line to the Lord. An intimate relationship with the Lord. We are COMPLETE IN HIM, and He supplies all our NEEDS , including need to know.

Your constant push of pushing men and the works of men off on people prove you are NOT one of the elect. You just want people to think you are. However the TRUE ELECT see right through your Phony Bologna pretentiousness!
---kathr4453 on 12/27/16


What does , "so you have what is BEYOND" mean? Did I say that, or are you saying I need what is beyone, that is the works of the Church fathers? Or are you saying anyone who knows the Lord without having to supplement the works of the Church fathers is saying they know the Lord BEYOND the Lord? No matter how you cut that John, it only EXPOSES you and what you don't have and what you don't know.

Do you KNOW what it means that Jesus is the HEAD of the Body. Tell us John, does your HEAD serve a purpose? Does Jesus need to read the Church Fathers in order to pass THEIR knowledge down to us? Or is He sufficient in all wisdom and knowledge to pass down ALL OF HIMSELF to His Body without the assistance of sinful man?
---kathr4453 on 12/27/16


John, Since you like to BLAST everyone with 4-5 posts in a row, let me do the same here to you.

It's obvious you do not know the deeper things of the Lord. You cannot share in any personal interaction with the Lord, or even share in some personal testimony of HOW the Lord is working in your life.

The biggest HEADS don't get through the door John. The smallest ones do. If you knew what dying to self meant, you would KNOW that, not just read about it.
---kathr4453 on 12/27/16


Kathr:

"What I have is beyond anything anything any church father could pass on to me."

So, is what you have is it beyond the Lord Jesus?

Kathr, tell me, be honest how much of the church fathers have you actually read??

If you have tell me one that said that they could conform someone to the image of the Lord Jesus??
---john9346 on 12/26/16




Just as we have many church leaders today, all saying this or that, they are no more infallible then the church fathers of yesteryear. Jesus Christ is made unto us wisdom and Knowledge, that is the wisdom and knowledge of HIM. And that Is Only given to those who have suffered with Him. That I may KNOW HIM, not know of Him through someone else's experience. What I have is beyond anything anything any church father could pass on to me. What I have came directly from the Lord. Who want second best when you have the REAL THING. Ephesians 3:14:21

Church fathers cannot CONFORM YOU TO THE IMAGE OF JESUS CHRIST. And is what TRUE predestination means......which makes me really wonder what you all think you have that you really DON'T.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/16


strongaxe:

"Where, exactly does it say that? 2 Timothy 3:16 says it is profitable, but it does not actually say it is sufficient, and definitely does not say it is "sole."

And did you go on to read vs 17??

"As far as self-interpreting and self-authenticating, many believe that, but the scriptures themselves never actually say that either."

And you know this how??

Please give proof??provide citation??
---john9346 on 12/26/16


strongaxe said, "Also, under Sola Scriptura, it shouldn't matter what Athansius or Irenaeus any other church father believed, since their opinions aren't scripture."

But their opinions were founded, guided, and focus on the "Scriptures."
---john9346 on 12/26/16


Strongaxe, it did matter what some of those church fathers believed if it was from Scripture. If it was from their own understandings apart from the word of God then it did not matter what they believed.
I believe this subject is a very simple answer. If what is taught is from the word of God then it is truth. If what is taught not from the Word of God then it is not Truth. Truth is the Word of God. Why? Because Jesus is the Truth, the Word of God. He testifies of the Father and what He wants others to hear. Do you believe in the Word? Do you believe in the Truth? To be a Christian you have to believe in the Word of God Jesus.
---Luke on 12/26/16


john9346:

You wrote: "The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church.

Where, exactly does it say that? 2 Timothy 3:16 says it is profitable, but it does not actually say it is sufficient, and definitely does not say it is "sole".

As far as self-interpreting and self-authenticating, many believe that, but the scriptures themselves never actually say that either.


Also, under Sola Scriptura, it shouldn't matter what Athansius or Irenaeus any other church father believed, since their opinions aren't scripture.
---StrongAxe on 12/26/16




Kathr said, "I'd like an example of what John means here. I disagree."

First, tell me, what do you disagree with??

Then we can go from there.

Do you understand what is being discussed??
---john9346 on 12/25/16


Mark,

Sir, respectfully, I want to point out that what you stated about Sola Scriptura is a "Result.", but it is not what Sola Scriptura is...

In other words, the benefits of something is not its source.
---john9346 on 12/23/16

I'd like an example of what John means here. I disagree. Example....the very benefit of our salvation IS THE SOURCE, who is the WORD MADE FLESH.

Those other dudes John keeps throwing in the ring ARE NOT the benefit or the source of anything. Just a confused waste of time of man's opinion having NO BENEFIT whatsoever in my salvation. And they are also not a source of my salvation.
---kathr4453 on 12/24/16


Mark,

Sir,

Here is the definition now reread Cyril, Athanasius,Irenaeus, etc.


The doctrine of Sola Scriptura teaches that the "Scriptures." are the "Final Authority." for faith and practice for the Christian. In other words, all traditions, thoughts, and opinions must come in to "Total Subjection." to the "Scriptures."
---john9346 on 12/23/16


"The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby."
---john9346 on 12/23/16


Mark,

Sir, respectfully, I want to point out that what you stated about Sola Scriptura is a "Result.", but it is not what Sola Scriptura is...

In other words, the benefits of something is not its source.
---john9346 on 12/23/16


Mark states, "What you have not proved is where Athanasius rejected tradition not mentioned in Scriptures."

Sir, from the very quotation you yourself cited that is what Athanasius was doing simply because those traditions were heretical...

Do you not remember Letter 2 par 6 please read the entire paragraphs 1-5.
---john9346 on 12/23/16


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Sir, this doesn't mean or state that Athanasius didn't believe in Sola Scriptura...
---john9346 on 12/21/16

Okay, I will play along.

As I understand Sola Scriptura, Scripture is the perfect and only means for spiritual knowledge and growth. Nothing else is needed or required.

The fact that Athanasius accepted tradition goes against this explanation. However, there are two types of tradition, one based upon Scripture, and others not mentioned in Scripture.

What you have not proved is where Athanasius rejected tradition not mentioned in Scriptures. I will be researching this as well.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/23/16


cluny: Just exactly what is your objection to sola scriptura? Do you consider that the Bible is insufficient for you? That it is wrong, and in need of correction. Or is it that you feel that some men are better qualified than the ancient Prophets to explain to us the things of God?



---Jerry6593 on 12/23/16


cluny states, "john9643, your quotes from Ss Irenaeus and Cyri of Jerusalme do NOT prove they believed in sola scriptura."

And if you understood the definition of "Sola Scriptura." you wouldn't state such astatement...

Cluny, Cyril of Jerusalem, Irenaeus, and Athanasius understood the doctrine...
---john9346 on 12/22/16


"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life ..."

Augustine on Christian Doctrine book 2 chapter 9

---john9346 on 12/22/16


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john9643, your quotes from Ss Irenaeus and Cyri of Jerusalme do NOT prove they believed in sola scriptura.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/22/16


Mark states, "This is what I have been saying to you. That Athanasius supported tradition but saw that Scripture was more authoritative than tradition."

Sir, this doesn't mean or state that Athanasius didn't believe in "Sola Scriptura." because he did and so did the rest of the Church Fathers.

This is why I asked you if you know the definition of "Sola Scriptura."
Sir, you objected to what I said about Athanasisus's View of "Sola Scriptura." and it seems now you are agreeing with me.
---john9346 on 12/21/16


Mark states, "As far as the other discussion, your understanding of God is legalistic."

Sir, am I to know what you are referencing??

Are you refering to my last posting?? if so I'm not going to discuss what we started to dialog on if you want to dialog please create another posting and I will be happy to dialog on it, but not here.

Thank You,

John
---john9346 on 12/21/16


Cyril of Jerusalem said, ""This seal have thou ever on thy mind, which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures."

---john9346 on 12/21/16


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Irenaeus said, ""We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith."
---john9346 on 12/21/16


But the real question is did Athanasius believe tradition was equal to the Word of God??
---john9346 on 12/20/16

This is what I have been saying to you. That Athanasius supported tradition but saw that Scripture was more authoritative than tradition.

I believe you will find the other Apostolic and Patristic Fathers believed the same thing.

As far as the other discussion, your understanding of God is legalistic.

We know that the Law was given to show the way to Christ, and that righteousness is not found in the law, but in faith and belief.

Belief in God is the most important thing we lost in the fall. We went from walking with God to hiding from God in the bushes.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/21/16


Luke,

All that I can say is to God be praised my dear brother...

Always and forever. Soli Deo gloria...
---john9346 on 12/20/16


Mark states, "St. Paul even had traditions. Athanasius knew this and did not reject these traditions."

But the real question is did Athanasius believe tradition was equal to the Word of God??

If you read Athanasius and the other Church Fathers, they elucidate that their traditions came from, "Scripture."
Respectfully sir, do you know the definition of "Sola Scriptura?"
---john9346 on 12/20/16


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Here is what Athanasius said of "Scriptures."

"These are fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness."
Athanasius Festal Letter 39 par 6.
---john9346 on 12/20/16


If you read the entire paragraph Athanasius clearly explains himself.
---john9346 on 12/19/16

You are correct, I incorrectly quoted the letter and paragraph.

However, your opinion is still incorrect.

The paragraph is talking about those who use scripture to devise heresies. Such are false teachers. But Athanasius says "they do not hold to the opinions the saints have handed down".

And what are these opinions? They are tradition.

Athanasius continues and says "Therefore Paul justly praises the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 11:2), because their opinions were in accordance with his traditions".

St. Paul even had traditions. Athanasius knew this and did not reject these traditions.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/20/16


Brother John, you have done great in answering everyone. You even control your temper very well. I have followed many of your answers. I want to thank you very much for the way you answer. Many others also do great in answering. I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.
---Luke on 12/20/16


Cluny states, "Straw man again. I never said any of them did."

But you are asserting that they did if the bible is not the "Authority." then what is the "Authority?"


cluny said, "Can you give one Eastern Father who taught Filioque? I ask you this on another blog.

We have never dialogged on Filioque I think you mean Reuben.
---john9346 on 12/19/16


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Mark,

First, the quotation is in Athanasius's Letter 2 par 6.

Next, Athanasius is condemning those heretics who had traditions, but their traditions didn't derive from, "Holy Scripture."

If you read the entire paragraph Athanasius clearly explains himself.

Athanasius use "Scripture." to establish his meaning in the paragraph as well as the preceeding paragraphs this is, "Sola Scriptura."
---john9346 on 12/19/16


Athanasius believed and taught "Sola Scriptura."
---john9346 on 12/16/16

You are mistaken, sir.

Athanasius held to Scripture and tradition.

Read "Letter 60 to Adelphius" in paragraph 2 where Athanasius says "But after him and with him are all inventors of unlawful heresies, who indeed refer to the Scriptures, but do not hold such opinions as the saints have handed down, and receiving them as the traditions of men, err, because they do not rightly know them nor their power"

No sir, Athanisius viewed Scripture as being more authoritative but not the sole source of doctrine.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/19/16


Only the Word can open you eyes. And the Word of God is the bible.
---Luke on 12/18/16

This is true, and it is so powerful it can open the eyes of the worst of sinners. To say that is not true is to say man is stronger than God.

The Jews rejected Jesus because Jesus didn't fit their preconceived notion that the KING should come from amazing wealth and power. He rode in on a donkey, not a million dollar chariot. HE came, not at that moment as KING, but as the lamb of God. Yet a few who KNEW the scriptures knew the savior must come first before the Glorified King. As did John who,said BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.

The KING was/ is promised to RULE, not take away sin.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/16


\\Not one of the Eastern Church Fathers ever believed and taught that what they wrote was equal to the Word of God...\\

Straw man again. I never said any of them did.

Can you give one Eastern Father who taught Filioque? I ask you this on another blog.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/18/16


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Thank you John. Great points.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/18/16


Hello everyone,

Not one of the Eastern Church Fathers ever believed and taught that what they wrote was equal to the Word of God...

On a blog with Brendan and Cluny I asked both of them to show from the fathers to which they couldn't show from the writings.
---john9346 on 12/18/16


Cluny, you are claiming that the Word of God is not truth. That after the Bible closed, other writings outside the Bible that some guy from the Eastern Orthodox church wrote is also equal to the Word of God.
Well you are wrong in the head. They have miss led you, and you believed them. You have been brainwashed. The only way you can come out of that brainwashed is for God to bring light to you. Then you will believe the real truth and how wrong you were. This is the work of God.
"Jesus answered and said to them,(This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent"). John 6:29.
God has to open you eyes through His word. Only the Word can open you eyes. And the Word of God is the bible.
---Luke on 12/18/16


cluny: "Do you realize, Samuel, that at the time Isaiah wrote this, the OT was still being written? Therefore, this verse cannot be used to support Sola Scriptura."

What kind of nonsense is that? The reference in Isa 20:8 is to the Law and the Prophets, which refers to Moses and the other Prophets. Who are you to claim that Isaiah was not a prophet??? Good grief!



---Jerry6593 on 12/17/16


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cluny states, "May I remind you that Jesus Himself said that devotion to the Scriptures can get in the way of a relationship with Him?"

This is patently false Jn 5:39-47 Jesus rebuked them for reading, but not knowing who he was the "Messiah."

Also, Athanasius himself simply understood and explain Jn 5:39-47 as a Rebuke to the Jews not the Authority of Scripture.

Athanasius believed and taught "Sola Scriptura."
---john9346 on 12/16/16


\\
You keep saying that Cluny. But you never can tell me why the verses that say the Bible is the final authority of all truth are wrong.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.\\

Do you realize, Samuel, that at the time Isaiah wrote this, the OT was still being written?

Therefore, this verse cannot be used to support Sola Scriptura.

May I remind you that Jesus Himself said that devotion to the Scriptures can get in the way of a relationship with Him? Even the Pharisees and Satan quoted the OT to Jesus, but what good did it do them?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/16


You keep saying that Cluny. But you never can tell me why the verses that say the Bible is the final authority of all truth are wrong.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

2 Timothy 3

To be true a doctrine has to agree with the Bible. The Bible is the word of GOD. Do you say the Bible is wrong? No you don't.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/14/16


\\ The term for my understanding is Sola Scriptura.\\

Which is actually taught NOwhERE in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/16


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Will I agree with the RCC that the Bible is the word of GOD.

But I don't believe that tradition is equal in authority to the Bible. The term for my understanding is Sola Scriptura. That all doctrine must agree with Scripture to be true. We have discussed this before.

Merry Christmas to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/13/16


//The RCC teaches a lot of things that are true and that we can agree on.

But I also have major differences with them.//

Lets discuss them.

Please state one?

//But that does not make all members lost. Only GOD knows and will decide who is lost.---Samuelbb7 on 12/10/16

AMEN TO THAT!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/16


The RCC teaches a lot of things that are true and that we can agree on.

But I also have major differences with them. But that does not make all members lost. Only GOD knows and will decide who is lost.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/10/16


//I'm a former Roman Catholic now for 17 years and can surely testify about the lies I was taught as a Roman Catholic//

Likewise, I can testify to the lies I was taught as a Baptist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/16


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//The Catholic catechism is all lies.//

It states God is God and there's no other.

It states Jesus Christ died for us and ONLY through Him can ONE be SAVED.

It lists the 10 Commandments.

Are you saying those are lies?

Be Specific?

//I'm a former Roman Catholic now for 17 years and can surely testify about the lies I was taught as a Roman Catholic//

Just tell us one "lie" you claim was told to you?

//Catholicism = a cult . . . to control the masses//

Yet you left? Many leave?

//Very many witness to the lies of RCC//

Please NAME one lie?

//but you still promote men, not God.---aservant

The RCC promotes, support and preaches Jesus as the Son of Man
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/9/16


\\After all these years, I still searching for something which is right about them!
---Rob on 12/7/16\\

1. Belief in the Virgin Birth of Our Lord.
2. Belief that He is the Only-begotten Son of God.
3. Belief that He was truly crucified.
4. Belief that He rose from the dead.
5. Belief in His imminent personal return as Judge.
6. Belief in our own bodily resurrection at that time.

Will these do as a beginning of a list of things that are RIGHT about Roman Catholics?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/16


Thank you aservant.

When I was a teenager (which was many decades ago), I considered becoming Catholic.

At that young age I noticed some things were not right about about Catholics. After all these years, I still searching for something which is right about them!
---Rob on 12/7/16


So then you want to rely on men to tell you the truth?... Suggest you ask Jesus to give you the revelation of truth..Once received, attend a service of that church... ---aservant on 11/25/16

What Greek and Hebrew version of the Bible do you read? Our English translations were translated by men with biases.

I have asked Jesus to show me His Father. I see the Scriptures telling us the Holy Spirit shows us Jesus and that Jesus shows us His Father.

And...as I learn my way clear of Protestant misunderstanding and obstinacy, I see that the beliefs of the Eastern Orthodox church about our Triune God are the clearest.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16


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The Spirit of Truth inside me revealed the truth . . . you attend . . . a synagogue of Satan, aservant. ---Cluny on 11/29/16

Culled from the 1st page of a Catholicism related search.

The Catholic Church Is A Big Hoax
Roman Catholicism Leads to Hell
The Catholic catechism is all lies.
I'm a former Roman Catholic now for 17 years and can surely testify about the lies I was taught as a Roman Catholic
Catholicism = a cult . . . to control the masses . . .
The Lie of Roman Catholicism

Very many witness to the lies of RCC. Lies = Satan, Lies = RCC, thus RCC = Satan.

As a Spirit-filled man, you should be able to see liars . . . but you still promote men, not God.
---aservant on 12/1/16


]]Once received, attend a service of that church. The Spirit of Truth inside you will reveal the truth to you about that church.
---aservant on 11/25/16]]

The Spirit of Truth inside me has revealed the truth that the conventicle you attend is also a synagogue of Satan, aservant.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/16


But, how else can I know what they believe?

The Creeds are our statement of faith . . . They do not replace Scripture, but they contain the truths of Scripture. ---Mark_Eaton on 11/22/16
.

So then you want to rely on men to tell you the truth? Will the rulers of the myiad of synagogues of Satan (RCC, UCC, COG, AOG, UMC) tell you the truth? Will Jesus, who is Truth, and the Holy Spirit tell you the Truth?

Suggest you ask Jesus to give you the revelation of truth, via the Spirit of Truth - Jn 14:17, 15:26, 16:13.

Once received, attend a service of that church. The Spirit of Truth inside you will reveal the truth to you about that church.
---aservant on 11/25/16


But, how else can I know what they believe?

The Creeds are our statement of faith . . . They do not replace Scripture, but they contain the truths of Scripture. ---Mark_Eaton on 11/22/16
.

So then you want to rely on men to tell you the truth? Will the rulers of the myiad of synagogues of Satan (RCC, UCC, COG, AOG, UMC) tell you the truth? Will Jesus, who is Truth, and the Holy Spirit tell you the Truth?

Suggest you ask Jesus to give you the revelation of truth, via the Spirit of Truth - Jn 14:17, 15:26, 16:13.

Once received, attend a service of that church. The Spirit of Truth inside you will reveal the truth to you about that church.
---aservant on 11/25/16


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This is for ALL you who so religously trust in the writing of men over trusting in the Words of God.

Jn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
---aservant on 11/23/16


Like the stuff you put up here?

Are we to assume then, tnat you do NOT believe in God the Father Almighty? That you do NOT believe in One Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, and so on? ---Cluny on 11/22/16


Since I put up mostly Scripture, are you saying that God is not infallible?

You put up mostly what men say because you trust and promote them. You admire them. You put down others, trying to be one of those "experts", that deceived people like yourself, esteem.

My considerable use of Scripture proves Who I believe and trust. Your extensive references to what men say, proves who you believe and trust.

You are likely still lost.
---aservant on 11/23/16


I know I have a general agreement with all of them. But I don't remember them verbatim. So I would have to look them up to see where I might partially disagree with them.

But in general they are good statements of faith and truth.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/23/16


Reuben,

Here is the rest of the sentence, "Or, rather, should make our public definition a mere phrase and nothing more."

Now in this paragraph where is Basil not placing "Scripture." as his Infallible Authority for Faith and Practice...

Also, you do understand the context of this paragraph right??
---john9346 on 11/22/16


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\\
None of them are God breathed. They are not Scripture.

They are written by fallible men, not written by the infallible Spirit of God.\\

Like the stuff you put up here?

Are we to assume then, tnat you do NOT believe in God the Father Almighty? That you do NOT believe in One Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, and so on?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/16


//That is the most humorous statement yet on CN.---kathr4453 on 11/22/16

John said he was sorry for what he thinks, but you laugh.

At least I know John is Sincerely WRONG, but no malice in his sincere error.

You are one mean lady.

You make fun of other people's faith.

You insult other people's faith.

You are one COLD woman.

Do you think Jesus recognizes you, Kathr?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/22/16


They are written by fallible men, not written by the infallible Spirit of God.
---aservant on 11/21/16

Please answer a question for me.

If you are unfamiliar with a church or denomination, where would you go for information about it?

If it were me, I would go to their "Statement of Faith" on their website.

But according to you, this Statement of Faith is not Scripture, it was written by fallible men, and not written by God and should not be used.

But, how else can I know what they believe?

The Creeds are our statement of faith to the world. They do not replace Scripture, but they contain the truths of Scripture.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/22/16


I apologize that Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox have perverted a BiblicalPractice and made it "Idolatry." If the church fathers were alive today the rcc and the EOC would be considered Blasphemous and Heretical Systems...
---john9346 on 11/21/16

That is the most humorous statement yet on CN. John are you saying no one today considers the RCC Blasphemous and Heretical system? That we need the so called Church Fathers to tell us this? I think even some of the most UNEDUCATED but spiritual people ( Born Again Christians) who've never even heard or read any of the so called Church Fathers works all down through history know that John.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/16


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the church fathers place "Scripture." as their Infallible Authority for Faith and Practice...

I apologize
---john9346 on 11/21/16\\

No they did not,

St. Basil the Great(A.D. 329-379), Doctor of the Catholic Church, bishop of Caesarea, :

", some we possess from written teaching and others we receive from the tradition of the Apostles, In respect to piety both are of the same force. No one will contradict any of these, no one, at any rate, who is even moderately versed in manners ecclesiastical. Indeed, were we to try to reject the unwritten customs as having no great authority, we would unwittingly injure the Gospel in its vitals,"
Holy Spirt 27:66

You do need to apologize.
---Ruben on 11/22/16


aservant,

You are correct in saying man use the creeds to supplant "Holy Scripture.",however, the church fathers who wrote these creeds place "Scripture." as their Infallible Authority for Faith and Practice...

I apologize that Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox have perverted a BiblicalPractice and made it "Idolatry." If the church fathers were alive today the rcc and the EOC would be considered Blasphemous and Heretical Systems...
---john9346 on 11/21/16


Well, The Lord Jesus said to love God with our whole heart and mind.

Besides there are many creeds found in Scripture cited by the apostles and prophets.

See, Deut 6:4, 1 Kings 18:39, 1 Cor 15:3-8, Phil 2:6-11, Matt 16:16, Jn 6:68-69, jn 20:28, etc.

If they were good enough for the apostles and prophets, then shouldn't they be good enough for Real-true Biblical Christians??
---john9346 on 11/21/16


Who has problems with them? To what propositions do you object and why? ---Cluny on 11/11/16

None of them are God breathed. They are not Scripture.

They are written by fallible men, not written by the infallible Spirit of God.

They are often thought of as "truth" and are used by men as a substitute for Scripture, despite the thoughts and words of God being far superior to the thoughts and words of the most well-intended men.
---aservant on 11/21/16


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I think of my relationship to the Lord as intimate as a marriage....even more so. That I may KNOW HIM. KNOW here is the meaning of KNOW as in the most intimate of a marriage. How many recite creeds to their husband or wife after they are married in place of that intimate communion of heart mind and soul of being ONE , Just as we are with God In Christ. And when I get a card for anniversary do I want words memorized as to what I believe a marriage is or do I want FRESH words from the heart of all that I am to that person. The Lord does not need all that formality or repetition of memorized words of the definition of what a Marriage is, or for you to remind Him of what you believe a marriage is. That's called RELIGION not relationship.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/16


Bill,

Sir, you are most welcome :-)

When you have a chance, read one of them.

You will find the men who wrote them had a "Most Reverential Fear of the "Scriptures.""

My favorite one to recite after taking the Lord's Supper is the Apostles Creed. Next, I love the Athanasian Creed I recite parts of it during special times ofdevotion.

Grace and peace to you,


John
---john9346 on 11/20/16


Reciting / repeating creeds, as well as prayers, over and over again come from the mind, not the heart / soul.
---Steveng on 11/20/16


\\I might not know them all, Cluny. \\

Since you don't know them all, you're not in a position to say anything about them, are you?

Please read them and tell us what is is that they SAY you find objectionable--not what they don't say. These Creeds were composed to deal with disputed points of doctrine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/18/16


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//2. The creeds were designed to maintain the purity of the church after much controversy against heresy.//

CORRECT!

It is to affirm the necessary basic beliefs of the Christianity

//3. The creeds do not replace "Scripture." they only affirm "Scripture."---john9346 on 11/14/16

Yes, but it does helps those who can't read the Scripture.

Esp. against those who knock on your door trying to trick people by using Scripture.

When they claim Jesus isn't the Son of God, but an angel, they can recite the creed to know the visitors are wrong.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/18/16


Ok, John - - I think I see what you mean: that the creeds are not meant to do the job of the scriptures which God uses to bring us to be how He desires us to become and relate in His love. In case you mean this . . . (c: . . . thank you (c:
---Bill on 11/17/16


As I have stated before, I prefer the Nicene Creed best.

The Nicene creed clearly defines the Trinity, defends Jesus being the same essence as The Father, defends Jesus being begotten not created, defends Jesus being the Creator of all things, and does not include other problematic issues, such as the word "God-Bearer" in the Chalcedon Creed or the constant repetition of "one not three" in the Athanasian Creed (which Athanasius did not write).

I believe the Apostles Creed (used by my church) is the weakest of all but is the perhaps the most concise of the Creeds.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/15/16


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