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Jewish Hanukkah Feast

How can one believe in the Jewish Hanukkah feast, but reject the books (1st and 2nd Maccabees) that tells the Hanukkah event?

Wouldn't that be the same if one believes that Jesus Christ was crucified, died and rose, but rejected the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as being Scripture?

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 ---Nicole_Lacey on 11/27/16
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Nicole, AGAIN, nothing in John 10: 22 saying anything about REdedication. Are you really paying attention? And no one has shown you any miracle of any candle in the Macabbees. It's not in there.

And Nicole, RABBI'S have told ME it was most likely fabricated because there is no mention of it anywhere until 600 years later in the Talmud. THEY speculate, that is JEWISH RABBI'S that it was added to make the Macabbees something OTHER THAN a horrible war ....a war they do not glamorize.

TRUE Miracles have witnesses Nicole. This one has NO EYE WITNESSES.

So having said this before which is what caused you to accuse me of insulting Jews or hating or whatever is that "My Info" came DIRECTLY FROM JEWISH RABBI'S?
---kathr4453 on 12/4/16


//What does bother me though is that you are the ONLY ONE who's DNA test READS DIFFERENT than anyone else's who show Jewish Blood.//

This is getting OLD. MOVE ON

//EUROPEAN JEWISH, if it is Jewish, even the cheap $99 tests.//

Since 722BC all the Tribes of Israel as been exile all over Europe, Asia and Middle East.

Why do you think James went to Spain, Phillip to Ethiopia, Thomas to India and Andrew to Russia?

They had to go to the Jews first than to the Gentiles.

Now you are UPSET because my cheap $99 DNA test was SO GOOD it Isolated the Jewish blood mixed with European blood?

Your MAYBE's are not a good answer for someone who is so sure.---kathr4453

No Maybe, DNA is OBJECTIVE
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16


//believes only HER understanding of Hanakkuh is the absolute of Hanakkuh.//

I never celebrated Hanukkah before. I knew some Jews who celebrate that feast.

They (Jews) told me what happened and pointed it out to me that rededication were in the Scriptures of both Maccabees.

They (Jews) explained the single candle lasting 8 days so it represents the Hanukkah Chanukah menorah Jewish candelabra

//cheesy $99 DNA test to prove to HER this or that.--kathr

Many Blacks don't have the privilege in knowing about home land.

That cheesy $99 DNA meant the world to me.

You should try it yourself. All you send is your salvia, wait 6 weeks. Go online it breaks down your markers as much as possible.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16


Poor sad Nicole, No one, let me say, no one, even me is upset you have Jewish blood. When you first posted that Nicole, YOU also said...." I bet that upsets you", giving motive that the only reason you did say it was because you hoped or thought or wanted it to upset me. I have said over and over and over IT DOES NOT.

What does bother me though is that you are the ONLY ONE who's DNA test READS DIFFERENT than anyone else's who show Jewish Blood. EUROPEAN is not and shows no proof it is Jewish. The DNA reading says EUROPEAN JEWISH, if it is Jewish, even the cheap $99 tests.

Also Nicole DNA would ALSO confirm the Jewish blood was from your Mother. Your MAYBE's are not a good answer for someone who is so sure.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/16


Haz DOESN'T care about my Race.

Only YOU are making it a FEDERAL CASE.

//The Spanish settled Puerto Rico, with some French as well,---kathr4453

NO that's Haiti.

The WHOLE island was called Hispaniola and ruled by Spain until 1679 when France took PART of the island and named it Haiti.

Puerto Rico was ONLY under Spain's control until the Spanish War when Spain handed over Puerto Rico to United States after losing.

Slaves went to Puerto Rico. My father is a mixture of African, Spanish and Natives.

My mother in Alabama also Black, but mixed more with Caucasian

Most likely the Jewish Blood CAME THROUGH HER BLOOD LINE!

I am SORRY that you are SO UPSET that there is Jewish blood in me.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16




Haz27, the absolute of that is debatable. However, Nicole coming from Puerto Rico, saying she is a Hispanic Black , also Spanish being in the DNA testing of many from Puerto Rico would say EUROPEAN. So unless Nicole can prove otherwise, her 22% European markers would be SPANISH. The Spanish settled Puerto Rico, with some French as well, but they were a minority, in Puerto Rico, but not those who are considered "Creole" , Black and French we see in Louisiana who were occupied by the FRENCH.

But you are correct, Nicole slapping her DNA here changing the subject matter is not what this blog was all about in the first place. I apologize for biting that hook and getting tangled up in the madness of Nicole Lacey.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/16


//YOU could become a Jewish Citizen by their standards?//

Yes! They are NOT RACIST. You are mistaken. They go by DNA

//Go ahead and apply for Jewish citizenship in Israel,---kathr4453

Not Jewish, but Israel citizenship.

I have NO DESIRE of LEAVING AMERICA. I voted for Trump.

//And where do you state you have any relatives who are Jewish?---kathr4453

Sweetie, I DIDN'T KNOW about the Jewish Blood until I took my DNA test.

I DIDN'T even KNOW which Countries of Africa my relatives came from as well.

That was the MAIN REASON I took my DNA test!

Let me understand your logic.

I can ACCEPT the African DNA results, but NOT THE JEWISH DNA results?

Do you see HOW SILLY you sound?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16


This debate over Jewish DNA is irrelevant. The physical Jews are NOT TRUE JEWS, according to God.

Rom 2:28,29
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter, whose praise is not from men but from God

Jer 9:26
Egypt, Judah, Edom, the people of Ammon, Moab, and all who are in the farthest corners, who dwell in the wilderness. For all these nations are uncircumcised, and ALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL ARE UNCIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART
---Haz27 on 12/4/16


Conversations can become convoluted when blogging with Nicole. The subject was never about NICOLE and her DNA in the first place. SHE made that an issue when discussing Hanakkuh and said I insulted or whatever Jews, because she believes only HER understanding of Hanakkuh is the absolute of Hanakkuh. I simply stated that I do not hate the Jewish people, as I am Jewish and Love my people.
THEN for some reason Nicole pops up with how she is Jewish and I'm not and how I need to get some cheesy $99 DNA test to prove to HER this or that.

That's what happens when getting involved with Nicole. You never know where the subject will end. We do know it usually ends being about HER.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/16


Last comment Nicole. I'm again beginning to think you are drunk and just keep on nagging and nagging. Sober up, and move on.

You still have NOT proved your 22% European blood is European Jewish or just European French or German. And having 22% of anything when the majority of your DNA is African makes you AFRICAN Nicole, not Jewish. You don't even practice the Jewish Faith. And where do you state you have any relatives who are Jewish? At least Rob does. Yet Rob does not say he is Jewish, but probably has MORE Jewish blood than you have.

This is not about me Nicole, OR YOU, so why are you turning CN into NicoleNet? You're becoming a menace here with your continual obsessive nagging only a mentally unstable person would do.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/16




Nicole, let's put an end to your HACKING once and for all. Do you honestly believe if you showed your DNA test to Israel, that YOU could become a Jewish Citizen by their standards? is your immediate Mother or Father Jewish? If Im not mistaken, they don't go back beyond Grandparents.

Go ahead and apply for Jewish citizenship in Israel, and show us what they say.

Once you do that, and are accepted as having all what THEY require to say you are Jewish, not your own silly idea, then let us know, and we will get in touch with you so you can send us copies of your Acceptance into Israel as a Jewish Citizen.

Or else.....MOVE ON.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/16


//I have no idea what your obsession with DNA is about in the first place.//

ME? You are the one going crazy because I told you I am Jewish.

You demanded to know how? How much of the 22% European is Jewish and on and on!

//does it make you feel special?//

Wellll, since I am not ashamed of having Jewish Blood I guess I do feel special.
Why? Are you ashamed of being Jewish?

//Jewish blood makes you special or better than your other African friends?//

I KNEW IT! You do think one Race is better than another!

//unlike Rob have said nothing about any grandmother being Jewish.---kathr

So, because Rob has MORE Jewish blood than me, that makes him better than me?

Being less Black and all?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/16


//WHY do you believe a REdedication would hold more weight than the original? ---kathr4453

Simple, because the Jews give it MORE WEIGHT than the Original.

Enough for me,

1. Jesus celebrated Hanukkah and NOT the 1st dedication.

No Jew celebrated the dedication yearly AFTER it was rededication.

2. It holds more weight because God performed a miracle at the rededication which He didn't at the 1st dedication.

Even you can't FIND Scripture of the Jewish people celebrating the 1st dedication.

The Jews ONLY felt like celebrating the rededication because God allowed the light to burn for 8 days.

Sis, in our family honor I going to celebrate Hanukkah this year for the first time.

Join us.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/16


All this bickering about DNA analyses is counter-productive. We are told that "In Christ, there is no Jew nor Greek" - i.e. once we are in Christ, we should not worry about racial nor national differences, because what unites us is much more important than what divides us. Another: "Is Christ divided?".

The details of where we came from may be interesting, but they should NOT be used to divide us or cause strife and discord.
---StrongAxe on 12/3/16


//Rob, I don't know why Nicole would say I somehow don't believe SOME black people ALSO have Jewish blood. Or that that upsets me.//

***Having a drop of Jewish blood in you does not qualify you as being Jewish...BUT Nicole that rule does not apply to those who have any Jewish blood.-----kathr4453 on 12/1/16

//Why do you make false statements and accusations Nicole?//

Everyone can read ALL of your posts.

//If you LIED here about accusing me before Rob, what proves you tell the truth about ANYTHING YOU POST HERE. ---kathr4453

Since I didn't lie I am OKAY.

Again, I think you are afraid to take the DNA test because it MIGHT reveal you are NOT Jewish after all.

Don't worry, God still loves you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/16


Nicole, I have no idea what your obsession with DNA is about in the first place. does it make you feel special? Do you think because some of your ancestors from your 75% African heritage gave birth to children who's ancestors had Jewish blood makes you special or better than your other African friends? If you say your ancestors were slaves, we know many slaves had offspring from their slave owners. I don't doubt for a minute that didn't happen, but it certainly doesn't make you SPECIAL, or exceptional. You, unlike Rob have said nothing about any grandmother being Jewish.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/16


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Rob, I don't know why Nicole would say I somehow don't believe SOME black people ALSO have Jewish blood. Or that that upsets me. I believe DNA have shown many Etheopians have DNA that can be traced all the way back to the tribe of Levi who's never been to Europe. BUT also many from the tribe of Levi did migrate to Europe, and married Europeans, just as those from Etheopia intermarried with Jews. The original marker for the tribe of Levi, would NOT BE EUROPE OR ETHEOPIA, BUT AGAIN, THE MIDDLE EAST.

Why do you make false statements and accusations Nicole? If you LIED here about accusing me before Rob, what proves you tell the truth about ANYTHING YOU POST HERE.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/16


//why on earth would a RE dedication ceremony take place year after year before 165AD.//

Because the Temple was destroyed and desecrated by Gentiles.

Again answer where in the Bible did the Jews had a yearly celebration of the 1st dedication before 165B.C? Chapter and verse?

//AND Nicole, please clear up your 22% European DNA,---kathr4453

I did look below.

I didn't know I was 1/5 Caucasian until I took my DNA test.
Maybe you will find out you are NOT Jewish after all.

Get your DNA results if you are NOT afraid.

Until then you are just talking and HAVE no proof that you are Jewish.

Your family might have JUST converted to Judaism, and have NO REAL JEWISH BLOOD LINE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/16


Nicole why on earth would a RE dedication ceremony take place year after year before 165AD.

The RE dedication of the Temple was in honor of the the original dedication spoken of in 2 Chronicles. THAT dedication was postponed by 2 Months BECAUSE of the war and the still occupation of the Greeks in the Temple. Once cleansed, it was REdedicated.

John 10:22 speaks nothing of REdedication. The verse does not say, Festival of REdedication, which would distinguish it from the original of 2 Chronicles. So Nicole, WHY do you believe a REdedication would hold more weight than the original?

AND Nicole, please clear up your 22% European DNA, which did not say 22% European Jewish.. ALSO TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS. .
---kathr4453 on 12/3/16


John Hagee using the feast of Tabernacles to predict the date of the 2nd coming, along with these blood moons NEVER HAPPENED. Why, because God never told us to use the Feast of Tabernacles as some crystal ball to predict dates of anykind for any reason. Not Jesus Birth, not His Death, not His Resurrection, and not the date of His second coming, that even Jesus said...ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS WHEN. Jesus never said...."i'll give you a HINT....study the feast of Tabernacles".

Certainly ALL pointed to Jesus Christ, even the Mercy Seat, all.....but to,take it beyond and try to make some De Vince mystery of predicting dates or mysteries only certain people know is WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/16


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//my Great Grandmother was Jewish.---Rob

DON'T tell Kathr, it will UPSET her to see ANOTHER BLACK person with Jewish blood.

//your DNA Test would read 22% EUROPEAN JEWISH.//

NO Sweetie,

Let me tell you how MIGRATION WORKS.

People MOVE and mix with the natives. Their children will have BOTH MARKERS!

My African Markers comes from 10 different Countries in Africa.

Jewish part mixed with Spain, Poland and Ukraine Natives. Also Ireland and England. Italy all part of the 22%.

You have forgotten that Jews didn't have a Country for almost 20 CENTURIES.

//But again WHO CARES.---kathr4453

You seem to CARE and A LOT.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/16


Kathr, please answer my question.

Show me in Scriptures, or Jewish Scriptures where the Jews CELEBRATED YEARLY rededication of the Temple before 200 B.C.?

You jumped around with other nonsenses in order to avoid that question. Because you know Jesus was celebrating Judas Maccabees dedication Temple of the miracle of Lights.

No other yearly dedication celebration of the temple before 200 B.C.

PLEASE ANSWER
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/16


Nicole, if you have all 22% of your European blood, and say all 22% is Jewish, your DNA Test would read 22% EUROPEAN JEWISH. Yours did not say that, or YOU did not say that ALL 22% of your European blood is Jewish. HOW they determine what percent is European Jewish as opposed to just Northern European, Central European, Southern European...is that they can tell from the MARKERS that your origins came from the Middle East.

If your DNA gave WHAT percent was European Jewish, why didn't you say so.

But since you didn't, and possibly want to state that NOW after the fact......how can you prove your not lying?

But again WHO CARES. You can imagine yourself to be anything you want to be.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


Nicole, I'm multiethnic, primarily Black/Italian. My Great-Great Maternal Grandfather was Irish. How come it does not show in my bloodline. Also my Great Grandmother was Jewish.

When people ask me what is my RACE, I them them HUMAN.

When people ask me WHAT IS MY RELIGION, I tell them I'm not Religious, I'm a CHRISTIAN!!!
---Rob on 12/2/16


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//your ignorance of DNA testing makes you look so foolish.//

It ISN'T difficult to understand DNA. It IDENTIFIES you.

All Races has Markers. When One has multiple Races ALL the MARKERS SHOWS UP in the Blood.

//Do Jews in Europe PROVE they are Jewish because they have European markers because they fled to Europe?//

No sweetie, the Jews in Europe MIXED with Europeans.

Understand?

//What about everyone who fled to America,//

If they mixed with Europeans who fled to America it STILL WILL SHOW the same.

Markers DON'T CHANGE

//Your race of BLACK originated in Africa not Europe, where many Blacks also Moved.---kathr4453

True, but the Jewish DNA in me were from European Jews.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/16


You know Mark_Eaton, I had at least 3 posts answering you on your comment, and just decided NOT to post. 1st, because your comment was SNARKY to begin with, and 2ndLY THAT IS YOUR OPINION, not a fact YOU CAN PROVE. Zechariah 14 does not require everyone Fly to Jerusalem from around the whole world to celebrate His Birth, Death and Resurrection in September. AND the Church who will be resurrected at that time and reigning and ruling WITH Jesus during the 1000 years will be required to do NO SUCH THING.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


Mark_Eaton, another area I don't argue about is Pre, Mid or Post for the rapture. Everyone who believes in the rapture believe THEY have the perfect scripture formula for that TIME as well, ALSO using the FEAST of Tabernacles as does John Hagee. I disagree there too. It's really hard to say exactly WHAT the Feast of Tabernacles will consist of when the Resurrected Risen Christ will Reign and Rule for 1000 years. Some actually believe animals too will be sacrificed for sin....but all that POINTED TO CHRIST, so it would seem odd that that would go back as if the blood of bulls and goats had the power to cleanse from sin. OR that the 1000 year reign would have the exact same calendar we have today.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


Maybe I will post what I wasn't going to. Mark_Eaton, Do you have a crystal ball, that you know the future? You ASSUME that the Feast of Tabernacles AKA as the Feast of Booths, will be about Jesus forcing everyone to Worship His Birth, Death, and Resurrection.

Was that something John Hagee taught you? What, so Jesus wants to make sure no one forgets He was born, died and rose again, when the RISEN CHRIST will be with man 24/7? What exactly would you say is the REASON Jesus would demand such a thing? Even Christians TODAY are not required to worship or celebrate these dates. WHY THEN in the future? And why do you believe your belief here is absolute truth? And if questioned.....what does that make of Anything you've ever said?
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


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...Some believe, April - May, and some believe September.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16

Please answer this.

What feast/festival does Zechariah tell us we will celebrate when God is King of all?

We will celebrate the Feast of Booths (Sukkot) because it honors Jesus and the festival honors his birth, life, and death.

But, you said "WE KNOW" in your post about Jesus birth day and you really did not know.

What does that say about the rest of your post?

Do any of us really know? We all see dimly.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/2/16


Nicole, your ignorance of DNA testing makes you look so foolish. And your ignorance of the science has now determined I'm a racist? ONLY NICOLE would come up with that. That's not how it works Nicole. Which now makes me wonder more than ever if you really are a Nurse. Not that Nurses understand Genetic markers, but should anyway have somewhat of a grasp of the science. Do Jews in Europe PROVE they are Jewish because they have European markers because they fled to Europe? What about everyone who fled to America, are you saying all Americans with European markers are Jewish? A MARKER Nicole is WHERE that particular race originated, not where it fled to. Your race of BLACK originated in Africa, not Europe, where many Blacks also Moved.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


More importantly Nicole, you should be more concerned that you are a New Creature In Christ, who,is NEITHER Jew or Gentile. That's all that matters. But for those who are not, it does not matter what RACE you are, because Jesus Died and shed His Blood for the forgivness of sin, and rose again for your justification. And that we are "sanctified" once and for all THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST, and have no need for any Purgatory where more sanctification is suppose to take place. There is no need for the NEW CREATURE Created IN CHRIST JESUS to go to any Purgatory. We have that VICTORY ONCE AND FOR ALL OVER OUR ENEMY when we DIED TO SIN, having been Crucified with Christ and raised up WITH HIM a NEW CREATURE.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/16


Mark_Eaton, you may be correct, and those who believe April or thereabouts also may be correct. What is incorrect though is December 25. Scripture doesn't give us a date, so that is one area I won't be dogmatic about. I should have said...Some believe, April - May, and some believe September.

We'll just have to ask Him when we see Him. There are no scriptures even 30+ Years after His death and Resurrection , as the epistles were written that many years after, even suggesting anyone celebrated Christmas. But HAY! Just like Hanakkuh it's a personal heart issue.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


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//this from an expert:
One drop of Semitic blood may signify that a person has Shem, the son of Noah, as an ancient progenitor...---kathr4453

WHO THE EXPERT? YOU? NAME

You are such a Racist!

Every time I give you a pass, you come back with ANOTHER RACIST remark!

//I saw no where pointed to Jewish heritage Nicole.//

? In the 22% European. You do know that Jews fled into Europe, right?

//AND the test isn't that simple. You simply made it up thinking it would bother me ---kathr4453

Why SHOULD that bother you?

Having Jewish blood NEVER crossed my mind. Are you MAD because I do?

Are you AFRAID we might be RELATED?

I THINK you are mad?

Don't be sister, WE'S FAMILY NOW!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/16


Having a drop of Jewish blood in you does not qualify you as being Jewish. Now according to some states here, if anyone has ONE black ancestor in their genealogy, they are considered BLACK. LA had that law back in the 60's I know for sure. Not sure now. BUT Nicole that rule does not apply to those who have any Jewish blood. Your nationality would be considered OTHER if you are a Heinz 57, as you showed you are. I saw no where pointed to Jewish heritage Nicole. AND the test isn't that simple. You simply made it up thinking it would bother me, but it hasn't at all. If you want to believe you are Jewish, go ahead. If you want to believe you came from Mars...go ahead.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


We know Jesus was born in April-May, not December 25th
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16

I must disagree with you.

I believe Jesus was born in September, on Sukkot - the Feast of Tabernacles.

The line of reasoning is based upon the birth date of John the Baptist and his father Zechariah being a temple priest. Messianic Jews especially believe this.

It also falls in line with this verse:

John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/1/16


Here Nicole, take this from an expert:

One drop of Semitic blood may signify that a person has Shem, the son of Noah, as an ancient progenitor. However, that by no means is enough in itself to qualify as an heir of the land of Israel. Ishmael, the son of Abraham, had more than a drop of Semitic blood and could not qualify. The young rejects (children of the non-Hebrew women) at the Ezran congregation had more than one drop of Semitic blood, they were disqualified. Numbers 36: 5-13 gives us the Israelite prescription for race and demographics:

So PLEASE stop embarrassing yourself here, and be more thoughtful and intelligent when you post.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


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john9346:

Harry Potter doesn't claim it's scripture either. Does that mean it is? The assumption "it's scripture unless it says it isn't" is absurd.

So you make claims and cant back them up really?

Obadiah 1:1 doesn't say Obadiah is scripture. ...
Obadiah 1:21 doesn't say Obadiah is scripture.
Esther 1:1 doesn't say Esther is scripture. ...
Esther 10:3 doesn't say Esther is scripture.

If you don't believe me, read them. I cited chapter and verse of 4 (blog limits prevent me citing or quoting all 188, but I'm sure you can read between ellipses).

The Bible never mentions Beyonce either. Will you believe that, or must I quote each of the thousands of verses that don't, just to prove it?
---StrongAxe on 12/1/16


Nicole, I never said anyone was WRONG in their celebration of Hannakah. YOU took what I said and YOU came to that conclusion, because YOU can't read, are lazy at listening, and make the most off the wall comments known to man.

I told you that the Spirit of Hanukkah is the TRIUNPHANT heart of the Jewish people who've had victory after victory over their oppressors, Hitler, the RCC, the Greeks in 165bc eat, and YOU SAID with your NASTY bar hag voice and attitude...NA NA NA that is not true...you don't know what you are talking about ......and on and on and on you went as your nastiness refused to LISTEN. Hanukkah means something different to different people Nicole, just as Christmas does.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


//taking a cheap DNA test to see if you have any ancestors who married even an atheist Jew, does not make you Jewish or even an expert on anything Jewish. HOW STUPID IS THAT!!!!//

1. My Ancestors marrying a Jew still MAKE BOTH my Ancestors

2. An Atheist Jew is STILL A JEW.

3. You are the ONE claiming the Jews DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THEIR BELOVED HANUKKAH not me.

4. You made yourself an expert when you claim the Jewish people are WRONG in their own Hanukkah.

//Ok let me explain DOCTRINE. We see in Romans and through out all scripture,---kathr4453

Jews do NOT have Romans in their Scriptures.

So how are you going to explain AWAY THEIR Hanukkah MIRACLE USING Romans?

HOW STUPID IS THAT?!!!!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/16


strongaxe said, "The only way (i.e. for me) to show that a statement like this is true is to quote every word in every book in the bible,"

So you make claims and cant back them up really?

This is what you did on the dialog we had on the Church Fathers.

Its not logical to make claims and statements with no support.
---john9346 on 12/1/16


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cluny,

Since I have addressed your statement with strongaxe and Brendan, I would like for you to now please give us all the EXACT VERSES in both Obadiah and Esther where their authors claim to not be writing scripture??
---john9346 on 12/1/16


Nicole, taking a cheap DNA test to see if you have any ancestors who married even an atheist Jew, does not make you Jewish or even an expert on anything Jewish. HOW STUPID IS THAT!!!!

Ok let me explain DOCTRINE. We see in Romans and through out all scripture, even on the day of Pentecost the Psalms etc that of the EXODUS. It has back up scriptures Nicole, scriptures that are CLEARLY WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT about the EXODUS.

Did Jesus or even the apostles even once mention the war in 165BC? NO Nicole. As all truths come in 2's and 3's. There is no BACKUP proving John 10:22 is referring to Hanukkah and NO MENTION at all even using the Hebrew or Greek word that is used for the word Hanukkah or any details describing it.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


Sweetie, I was baptized with all my siblings in my father's village in Puerto Rico at the age of 23 months.///

So you are saying you were a practicing Jews until you were almost 2 years old, and then your Father converted to Catholicism and decided for you what you have to believe?

Fine Nicole, but you don't need to be snarky with the "Sweetie". When I see someone say that I picture a mug of beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other trolling for men at a sleazy bar, not a NUN. That is how I will now picture you.

Thanks for the visual.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


//now you're a Black Hispanic Jew from Alabama who converted to Catholicism? SWEET! When did you convert to Catholicism?--- kathr4453

Sweetie, I was baptized with all my siblings in my father's village in Puerto Rico at the age of 23 months.

My maternal grandmother was Baptist in Alabama.

If you live in the America, you will know that Black people come in all shades and have multiple Ancestors.

Are you upset because I am also Jewish?

I did an Ancestor DNA test. Just Curious.

I am 22% European. 72% African 5% Native American 1% Asian.

Does that make you mad?

We are a melting pot Kathr!

I suggestion you get your DNA tested. You might be surprise and find out you are not Jewish. $99
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


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john9346:

You wrote: Can you show this to us all?

The only way (i.e. for me) to show that a statement like this is true is to quote every word in every book in the bible, which is about as difficult. It is equally difficult to show that the Bible never mentions computers, or communism, or calculus.

However if such a statement were false (e.g. a claim that the Bible never mentions Egypt), rather than challenging someone to prove that it never does, it would just be trivially easy to show an example where it does.

So, please show me which books DO claim they are scripture, as that is MUCH easier than my quoting the complete contents of every book in the Bible (which would certainly exceed the 125 word limit).
---StrongAxe on 11/30/16


So the Jew didn't want to celebrate the deaths of millions of Egyptians so they MADE UP the miracle of the separation of the sea as well in the Passover?

Do you see how RUDE you are?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16

Nicole,taking anything written, and holding it up as though it were GOD BREATHED DOCTRINE is your mistake.
JEWS do not include the Maccabees as DOCTRINE. Everyone here agrees Maccabees IS NOT DOCTRINE, however EXODUS IS. AND in Exodus Jews did not murder Egyptians or each other.....Did you not KNOW all that came upon Egypt was solely by the hand of GOD.

And Nicole, everything I've shared here re: Hanukkah are the feelings and thoughts of many Jewish people. IF you were really Jewish Nicole YOU would know that.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/16


Can you understand it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE?////

Nicole .... it doesn't matter what YOU believe either.

So now you're a Black Hispanic Jew from Alabama who converted to Catholicism? SWEET! When did you convert to Catholicism?
---kathr4453 on 11/30/16


//I am Jewish and love my people.//

Guess what? So am I, but you and I DON'T practice the Jewish faith

Why are you arguing with me?

The Jews SAID what happened in Hanukkah NOT ME!

Can you understand it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE?

Jews said it is and I believe them. Can you?

//a secular holiday celebrating//

Only Jews celebrate Hanuakkah. Secular people DON'T

//that even JEWS KNOW May not be true. They did not want to celebrate WAR so the miracle was ADDED.---kathr4453

HOW DARE YOU!

So the Jew didn't want to celebrate the deaths of millions of Egyptians so they MADE UP the miracle of the separation of the sea as well in the Passover?

Do you see how RUDE you are?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


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Nicole, I am Jewish and love my people. I simply stated that John 10:22 cannot be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Hannukah that was being celebrated, It was the Feast of dedication, NOT REDEDICATION. I believe the word Hannakah means RE dedication, not dedication. And Nicole, it is a secular holiday celebrating 2 things...the VICTORY OF WAR OVER THE GREEKS, and the SUPPOSED miracle of the Candelabra burning 8 days, not even stated in the Maccabees, that even JEWS KNOW May not be true. They did not want to celebrate WAR so the miracle was ADDED.

Why would Jesus celebrate Hannakuah when they were AGAIN in bondage to Roman Rule, And the Temple again DEFILED? YOU only PERSUME He did, without any proof.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/16


//we know the Festival of Lights was originally a Pagan holiday,---kathr4453

It's ONLY a Jewish Festival!

Tell me which Pagan celebrated Hanukkah?

You hate the Catholic Church SO MUCH you don't mind INSULTNG Jewish beliefs to INSULT the Catholic church

SHAME ON YOU!

NAME THE PAGANS that celebrates Hanukkah? NAME?

Or apologize to the Jewish People

I NEVER celebrated Hanukkah.

The CC doesn't have any SPECIAL dates for Hanukkah.

Unlike you, the Catholic Church RESPECTS the Jewish People and tell them 'HAPPY HANUKKAH'.

Some Jews have told me Merry Christmas.

It doesn't mean they believe in Christmas.

They just know it is SPECIAL to me.

Can you do the same?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


\\strongaxe said, "It's really quite simple. Example every single verse of the books of Obadiah and Esther. If any of those verses say the books are scripture, Cluny's statement is proven false. If NONE of them say the books are scripture (which they don't), Cluny's statement is proven true.

Sir, you and Cluny both "Time and time again." have been shown and corrected factually on this same objection.\\

Please give the EXACT VERSES in both Obadiah and Esther where their authors claim to be writing scripture.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/16


strongaxe states, "In fact, most Bible books never claim they are scripture."

Can you show this to us all?
---john9346 on 11/30/16


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Maccabees is not "Divinely Inspired, Authoritative."

Read below from the Author's Words:

"And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them." 1 Maccabees 4:46

"So there was great distress in Israel, the worst since the time when prophets ceased to appear among them." 1 Maccabees 9:27

"Therefore,[e] the Jews and their priests are happy to have Simon and his descendants as their leaders and High Priests, until a true prophet appears." 1 Maccabees 14:41
---john9346 on 11/30/16


Jerry, the REASON why Kathr will not acknowledge Hanukkah in Maccabees as the Jewish PEOPLE celebrate and DEFINE it's ENTIRE EVENTS because she will ALSO have to accept 2 Maccabees 12.

2 Maccabees 12:43 speaks about Judas Maccabees taking up a collection for his DEAD soldiers V43b 'sent to Jerusalem to provide for an EXIPATORY sacrifice...inasmuch as he had the RESURRECTION in mind,

V45
Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin

Kathr KNOWS the Jewish People LOVE Judas Maccabees and believe EVERYTHING he did was sanctioned by God.

Thus, she CAN'T separate Hanukkah in 2 Maccabees 10 FROM the act of PRAYING for the DEAD in 2 Maccabees 12 by the SAME HERO!

2 Chapters APART!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/16


strongaxe said, "It's really quite simple. Example every single verse of the books of Obadiah and Esther. If any of those verses say the books are scripture, Cluny's statement is proven false. If NONE of them say the books are scripture (which they don't), Cluny's statement is proven true.

Sir, you and Cluny both "Time and time again." have been shown and corrected factually on this same objection.

Not sure why you keep stating it again and again.

Just because you both keep same the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true l
---john9346 on 11/30/16


Cluny, not sure where you were taught that. I see scripture states anti Christ will sit in the Temple as though he were God. I guess just as Herod, knowing he was not from the line of Judah sat in the temple, was so worried when Jesus was born, knowing Prophecy that he didn't belong there, tried to have Jesus killed. What do you think Herods motive was....that he just hated children ??? NO, he knew he didn't belong there. So did that make the Temple evil? NO! Just the imposter sitting in it.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


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//The RCC today does not really support the independence of Israel//

Right? I the Catholic keeps telling a Protestant to ALLOW the Jewish People DESCRIBE their OWN Holy and Feast Days.

You want to TELL JEWS what to believe?

Where you there in 148 BC to claim it didn't happen?

//and Jerusalem belonging to Israel alone.//

And they had it since 1947. Who do you think owns Jerusalem?

You are so confused.

//Even the RCC during the crusades tried to take over Jerusalem and murdered GOOD JEWS.---kathr4453

Where did you learn your world history?

Crusader were between Christians and Muslims.

Can you at least get the Players right BEFORE you start stating the outcome?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


john9346:

You wrote: 2. The author of Maccabees never proclaim it to be "Scripture."

Cluny wrote: Neither did the authors of Obadiah or Esther.

You wrote: Sir, in the presence of everyone reading this can you proove this??

It's really quite simple. Example every single verse of the books of Obadiah and Esther. If any of those verses say the books are scripture, Cluny's statement is proven false. If NONE of them say the books are scripture (which they don't), Cluny's statement is proven true. This is a simple, verifiable, repeatable scientific experiment that ANYONE who has access to a Bible can perform.

In fact, most Bible books never claim they are scripture.
---StrongAxe on 11/29/16


Nicole, Please show through scripture ONLY when the Bible says is the first day of winter. I see the Bible talks about summer and winter, but I can't find anything stating exactly WHEN all four seasons...LIKE OUR CALENDAR HAS, having exact dates and months for each season. SO! Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt EXACTLY what month John 10:22 is. It says WINTER yes, but does not state if it's the seventh month or the ninth month.

We know Jesus was born in April-May, not December 25th. And we know the Festival of Lights was originally a Pagan holiday, which the RCC want to roll up into Christmas and Hanukkah. Is that WHY the dates are so important to you? The idea that we would not have Christmas if there was no Hanukkah?
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


explanation for why Hanukkah lasts eight days. The people rededicated the Temple during the Feast of Tabernacles (an eight-day holiday which would have been observed the previous month had the Syrians not occupied the Temple). King Solomon chose to dedicate the Temple during the Feast of Tabernacles (2 Chronicles 6 and 7) so it makes sense that the people would wish to do the same.

So the way I understand this is because of the delay of the real time of the dedication, and because of the war, the Feast of Tabernacles, was delayed to the 9th Month....they were not starting a NEW holiday.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


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Nicole:

"You would believe in the Birth, Death and Resurrection of Jesus without Scripture?"

Totally different not the same thing...

"History (centuries) validates the Holy Mass, but because you all claim YOU CAN'T find MASS in Scripture it isn't valid."

Totally different not the same thing and not in "Scripture."

"Not holiday, but feast day."

Same thing just choice of words.

Hanukkah is not commanded by the Torah it is a Historical Traditional Holiday.

The Lord Jesus didn't celebrate Hanukkah it is not a Commanded Holiday by the Torah.
---john9346 on 11/29/16


kathr, I thought any rebuilt temple in Jerusalem would be the Temple of Antichrist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/16


//Jesus did not celebrate Hanukkah in John 10:22.---kathr4453 on 11/29/16

Just because you say so? Really?

Why do you think John wrote the WORD 'Winter'?

It was to let you know wish dedication Jesus celebrated.

I already PROVED that 1 Chronicles 7:9 Dedication Happened in the SEVENTH month.

2 Chronicles 7:10a
On the twenty-third day of the seventh month. (Which ISN'T WINTER!)

1 Maccabees 4:Now on the five and twentieth day of the NINTH month, which is called the month Casleu, in 148 BC

Which Scientist states it was December 14th that year.

So I guess the Apostle John KNEW he had to put the word 'winter' because of people such as yourself!

Biblical and Historical FACTS!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


What I find really amazing is that TODAY if Israel began rebuilding Solomon's Temple and REdedicated it to the Lord the RCC would have a cow. The RCC today does not really support the independence of Israel and Jerusalem belonging to Israel alone. They have stuck their nose in Gods business and have sided with giving the Palestinians much of Israel and Jerusalem. Even the RCC during the crusades tried to take over Jerusalem and murdered GOOD JEWS who celebrated Hunakkah. So Nicole, you can promote Hunakkah all you want as some good little RCC girl who is trying to prove what????? How ignorant you are of your own churches history of oppression murder etc of GOOD JEWS who refused to bow to the RCC.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


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Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16
Jesus did not celebrate Hanukkah in John 10:22.. Hanukkah , AKA THE RE dedication as YOU clearly stated Nicole is a totally DIFFERENT EVENT than the original dedication. John 10 says nothing of the festival of RE dedication, or Festival of Lights. If it were in fact Hanukkah scripture would say REdedication. 2 Chronicles gives the events of the original dedication of Solomon's Temple. The Re dedication did not USURPE the first one or the yearly festival commemorating the first one. And since there remains no Temple today, the Idea of Hunakkah and the celebration of Hunakkah is a celebration of when Israel won independence from the Greeks in 165BC. It's a secular Jewish Holiday just like our 4th of July.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/16


//Hanukkah is validated outside of Maccabees. You don't need Maccabees to establish the authenticity of Hanukkah.---john9346

You would believe in the Birth, Death and Resurrection of Jesus without Scripture?

History (centuries) validates the Holy Mass, but because you all claim YOU CAN'T find MASS in Scripture it isn't valid.

//Hanukkah isn't a commanded holiday in the Torah.//

Not holiday, but feast day.

There are Solemnities: Holy of Holy days for Jews and feast days.

Beside Torah means the 1st 5 books.

Hanukkah OCCURRED in 165 BC.
So how can it be commanded in the Torah if it hasn't happened yet?

Jesus celebrated Hanukkah in John 10:22. So it means all GOOD Jews celebrated Hanukkah.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/16


cluny states, "Neither did the authors of Obadiah or Esther."

Sir, in the presence of everyone reading this can you proove this??
---john9346 on 11/29/16


cluny states, "Neither did the authors of Obadiah or Esther."

Sir, in the presence of everyone reading this can you proove this??
---john9346 on 11/29/16


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Nicole:

Again, Hanukkah is validated outside of Maccabees. You don't need Maccabees to establish the authenticity of Hanukkah.

Also Note, Hanukkah isn't a commanded holiday in the Torah.

John the apostle was only pointing to a specific date of reference not a specific date of "Commanded Holiday."

"Sola Scriptura has many rules besides everything has to common from Scriptures."

This is incorrect you are referencing Tota Scriptura.
---john9346 on 11/29/16


Nicole_Lacey:

True, yet not completely.

I was just going by the posts you have made here, not by what you choose to be required to do, based on your beliefs.

Okay, since you believe Hanukkah is a historical event involving Judas Maccabees, you would then accept Judas belief and actions of PRAYING FOR THE DEAD. RIGHT?

When I believe a historical document is accurate, I can accept the existence of something without necessarily judging the validity or wisdom of it.

If so, then ACKNOWLEDGE that praying for the dead DIDN'T start with the Catholic Church.

I never said it did.
---StrongAxe on 11/28/16


//You yourself rely heavily on church tradition and the writings of church fathers down through the ages, yet you yourself would not call those scripture either. ---StrongAxe

True, yet not completely.
I have to believe all the DOGMAS of the Catholic Church, but not ALL the traditions of the Catholic Church.

Protestants WRONGLY believe Catholic MUST believe all TRADITION

This ONLY applies to the Dogmas.

Okay, since you believe Hanukkah is a historical event involving Judas Maccabees, you would then accept Judas belief and actions of PRAYING FOR THE DEAD. RIGHT?

If so, then ACKNOWLEDGE that praying for the dead DIDN'T start with the Catholic Church.

Catholic Church copied the Jewish people's tradition.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/16


\\
2. The author of Maccabees never proclaim it to be "Scripture."\\

Neither did the authors of Obadiah or Esther.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/16


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: How can one believe in the Jewish Hanukkah feast, but reject the books (1st and 2nd Maccabees) that tells the Hanukkah event?

That is because we use one word "believe" to mean several related but different things.

"Every man needs something to believe in. I believe I'll have another drink" - W. C. Fields.

Protestants believe that Maccabees exist, and also that they contain some historically accurate information, but not that they are infallible divinely inspired scripture. You yourself rely heavily on church tradition and the writings of church fathers down through the ages, yet you yourself would not call those scripture either.
---StrongAxe on 11/28/16


//There are Historical Sources to validate this Holiday other then the apocrypha.---john9346

No. Hanukkah is celebrated by Jesus. John 10:22 in the Winter time as WHEN Jewish people celebrate Hanukkah.

John 10:22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was WINTER,

Do you accept the Gospel of John? I know you do.

Sola Scriptura has many rules besides everything has to common from Scriptures.

One is to validate OT it has to be in in NT.

Hanukkah is validated by the Jewish people Yesterday and Today.

Hanukkah is validated by Secular people today because of the Historical evidences.

Hanukkah is validated in John's Gospel.

But Protestants REJECT Maccabees, but NOT Hanukkah?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/28/16


Nicole:

Things to note:

1. There are Historical Sources to validate this Holiday other then the apocrypha.

2. The author of Maccabees never proclaim it to be "Scripture."

3. Maccabees was written during the time of of "Silence." when there were know prophets in Israel.
---john9346 on 11/28/16


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