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God Say About Christmas

What does God say about Christmas? Why do christians celebrate christmas knowing they have pagan roots? Are there hidden dangers in celebrating Christmas?

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 ---Steveng on 12/25/16
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//You believe using the toilet is on the level with xmas?... No!//- Strongaxe.

But yes, that is exactly what you are saying. I've already identified your fallacious equivalent argument. You cannot compare a natural occurrence of the body to a religious practice done out of choice. You fall foul of the same erroneous line of reasoning you identify.

//The Bible explicity [sic] tells us to not worship other gods//

Yes other gods and their false religious festivals of which your pagan Xmas/winter solstice is clearly one of them. Diwali, Parinirvana, Ramadan and xmas festivals are all not mentioned in the Bible. Should we observe them?

The answer is No!
---David8318 on 1/5/17


NicoleLacey's ignorance of scripture leads her to lies, arrogance and subterfuge.

NicoleLacey's lies:

1. She claims The New Catholic Encylopedia, 1967,Vol.III, p.656 doesn't say Aurelian used December 25 as far back as 274AD when it clearly does.

2. Pagans stole December 25 from the Christians. A blatant lie based her lies regarding Luke chapter 1,

3. that Luke chapter 1 speaks of the Festival of Tabernacles (Booths), when clearly it does not.

Zechariah was serving in the Temple during the 'Division of Abijah', one of the 24 priestly divisions- Lu.1:5. A fact that eludes Nic.Lacey. Give her too much knowledge she might become dangerous!
---David8318 on 1/5/17


Steveng,

Just remember, you are confusing the Lord Jesus's 2-natures and trying to make them be in conflict with each other which "Scripture." harmonizes the 2-natures of the Lord Jesus Christ they are not in conflict...

---john9346 on 1/4/17


David8318:

You wrote: Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Hogwash. Lookup "logical fallacies". By your logic, we can't see God, so he doesn't exist. You provide no evidence us that you're a human being, so you must be from Mars. etc. etc.

what stops Christians celebrating the Hindu festival ... There's nothing in the Bible to say you can't!

The Bible explicity tells us to not worship other gods.

You believe using the toilet is on the level with xmas?

No. I said your "the Bible never said the Apostles celebrated Christmas, so they didn't" is JUST as fallacious as the absurd "the Bible never said the Apostles went to the bathroom, so they didn't".
---StrongAxe on 1/4/17


//Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence..//- Strongaxe.

I disagree. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

If you believe absence of evidence is a green light to adopt a festival linked with paganism, then what stops Christians celebrating the Hindu festival Diwali? Or the Buddhist Parinirvana, or the Muslim Ramadan? There's nothing in the Bible to say you can't!

You believe using the toilet is on the level with xmas? So everyone on earth who goes to the toilet also celebrates xmas? Your fallacious line of reasoning is- "They went to the toilet so they must have celebrated Xmas". Seriously, is that the best you can come up with? One is a natural need, one is not- can you guess which?
---David8318 on 1/4/17




The hebrew language is very poetic. It has many similes and other metaphors to help understand spiritual matters using human language. Verse numbers and chapters didn't exist until somewhere around the 1500s. Dividing the bible up into verses and chapters forces the people to analyze each verse instead of understanding the concept. Try listening to the bible to see what I mean. Listening will give you a whole new understanding of God's word.

---Steveng

Sir, just have to ask are you listening to your own advice??

Sir, The verses you cited to me are in the NT written in Greek not Hebrew.

The OT was written in Hebrew not Greek.
---john9346 on 1/4/17


----- Verse numbers and chapters didn't exist until somewhere around the 1500s. Dividing the bible up into verses and chapters forces the people to analyze each verse instead of understanding the concept. Try listening to the bible to see what I mean. Listening will give you a whole new understanding of God's word.
---Steveng on 1/3/17

This I agree. You really can't understand anything unless you read the whole book at once, or at least the whole chapter. Cults love those Johnny one note one verse wonders they build false doctrine around, and when showing they are wrong by showing other verses, they say.....WHY ARE YOU CHANGING THE SUBJECT. ITS MADDENING.
---kathr4453 on 1/4/17


David, I realized you have to be 17 to 20 years of age.

You don't know how to cite your sources.

When you do cite your sources you are childish to think no one will 'fact check' them.

When you are shamed with your lies, you double down with more lies.

Some even inserted the word 'lie' in front of your name.

I said all that to let you know I don't debate with boys.

It's a waste of my time.

When you grow into a man come back to debate me.

Remember, come back when you are a MAN!

Now go get your cookies and milk, your cartoons are on.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/17


Pope John Paul II, on 21 December 1993, just three days before Christmas 1993, acknowledged that the celebration of Christmas is not rooted in the Bible. Regarding the date December25, the pope admitted: "On that day in pagan antiquity, the birthday of the 'Invincible Sun' was celebrated to coincide with the winter solstice."

Even Pope Benedict in his book Jesus of Nazareth, The Infancy Narratives, doubts the date for the birth of Jesus. No wonder Benedict was booted out of the papacy. Many other Catholics have been "disfellowshipped" for similar reasons.

NicoleLacey et al do not want to follow what the Bible teaches, but the precepts of men and pagan festivals. In other words, they are in a cult.
---David8318 on 1/4/17


john9346 wrote: "Sir, God the Holy Spirit authorize the words of these verses..."

The hebrew language is very poetic. It has many similes and other metaphors to help understand spiritual matters using human language. Verse numbers and chapters didn't exist until somewhere around the 1500s. Dividing the bible up into verses and chapters forces the people to analyze each verse instead of understanding the concept. Try listening to the bible to see what I mean. Listening will give you a whole new understanding of God's word.
---Steveng on 1/3/17




//Stewing in their own conceit.//

Seems you are describing yourself.

Mad I caught you in another lie?

Sweetie, just admit you don't know why Zechariah was lighting the candles in the Temple.

Stop wasting place with nonsense Alinsky's tactics.

//NicoleLacey is so bereft of scriptural comprehension that she doesn't realise what Zechariah was doing in the temple area.//

Enlighten me, David if you can?

//Luke 1:5 has a big clue. You do your own research//

No clue. It is very clear if you just use COMMON SENSE.

//I'm not casting my pearls before swine!---David8318

Sweetie, stop fooling yourself.

We know you don't have any pearls to cast.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/3/17


The JW sect is completely traitorous to Jesus.

Re: Jehovahs Witness, cult

They believe:

-Jesus did not rise from the dead
-The blood of Christ does not remove sins
-There is no hell with everlasting torment
-Man has no spirit
-The Holy Ghost is not a person of the Godhead
-Jesus is the created archangel Michael
-Jesus is just an agent of God, nothing more

These are all lies David8318. Stop spreading their lies for them. Repent and come to Jesus. He will receive you, and we of the Bride will receive you. You will gain much more than the JW cult can ever cost you. You will be welcomed heartily!
---aservant on 1/3/17


Getting SMARTER... NicoleLacey.

Theres nothing better than the sound of a pagan in the form of Nic.Lacey frothing at the mouth. Stewing in their own conceit.

Unlike Nic.Lacey who appears not to want to read what Luke chapter 1 says, I believe many now will have read Luke chapter 1 and seen that there is no festival to speak of being observed at the time Gabriel appeared to Zechariah.

NicoleLacey is so bereft of scriptural comprehension that she doesn't realise what Zechariah was doing in the temple area. Luke 1:5 has a big clue. You do your own research Nic.Lacey. I'm not casting my pearls before swine!- Matthew 7:6. Dogs only trample on the truth as you've demonstrated quite clearly on this blog.
---David8318 on 1/3/17


//More from the New Cath.Encyl: 'The date of Christs birth is not known. The gospels indicate neither the day nor the month... According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener... and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December25 in the Julian Calendar, January6 in the Egyptian)'. ---David8318 on 1/3/17


David refused to cite that 'copy and paste' source so I will give it to you.

It was Posted by Elijah Daniels at 8:15 AM on Monday, November 26, 2012

Title: 'The Date of Jesus' Birth Jesus' birth date not recorded in the Bible'

Website: Search for Bible truth.

TRY AGAIN, DAVID
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/3/17


steveng:

"Sorry, but the Holy Spirit does not quote verses."

Sir, God the Holy Spirit authorize the words of these verses...

"Jesus expressly said, "...I ascended to your Father and my Father, your God and my God."

Yes, this is the incarnation meaning the Lord Jesus Christ is 100% God and 100% man so this verse doesn't disprove the "Trinity, the Deity of Christ, nor the incarnation."

Question, did you continue reading to vs 28 listen, "28 Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!"
---john9346 on 1/3/17


steveng:

1. Acts17:30-31 is refering to the incarnation remember the Lord Jesus is 100% God and 100 % man.

2. Rev 3:12 is showing to us there is separation in the "Trinity." Jesus is designating himself from the "Father." which Jesus is not the Father and the Father is not the Son,however, they both make up one "Being of God."

Next, look at Rev 3 and ask the question can a mere simple man do what is stated in Rev 3?? No, only God can do what is said in Rev3.
---john9346 on 1/3/17


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Steveng:

Rev 19:10 actually corrects you and encourages the worship of the Lord JesusChrist listen, "10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." This is an angel speaking.g

Also, Mk 10:18 the Lord Jesus actually declares his "Divinity."

Sir, you are confusing the Lord Jesus's 2-natures and trying to make them be in conflict with each other which "Scripture." harmonizes the 2-natures of the Lord Jesus Christ they are not in conflict...
---john9346 on 1/3/17


David, you were told before to put up or shut up.

Tell us WHAT feast Zechariah was in if I am lying?

Your Saul Alinskys' 12 Rules for Radicals approach is getting OLD.

* RULE 5: Ridicule is mans most potent weapon. There is no defense. Its irrational. Its infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.

America is yawning with that approach.

DEBATE or RETREAT!

Junior high calling names tactic is sad for a grown man.

//More from the New Cath.Encyl:---David8318

Getting SMARTER.

No pages or Vol. citation given to make sure I don't prove you wrong with your new false statement.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/3/17


//Argue to EXPLAIN not to win//

NicoleLacey's philosophy is "LIE to win not to explain".

NicoleLacey lyingly claims the Festival of Booths (or Tabernacles) is in Luke chapter 1. Nic.Lacey lies about The New Catholic Encyclopedia not saying Aurelian used December 25, 274AD for his pagan sun-god. Lies designed not to explain but to twist scripture to suit a pagan agenda.

More from the New Cath.Encyl: 'The date of Christs birth is not known. The gospels indicate neither the day nor the month... According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener... and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December25 in the Julian Calendar, January6 in the Egyptian)'.
---David8318 on 1/3/17


. . . he may lose his entire livelyhood do you knowhow it feels if your mom or dad or your entire family are forbidden to have anything to do with you for the rest of your life?? ---john9346 on 1/2/17

No.

But, we can't live in fear, because nothing is impossible to God.

Would David8318 rather be complicit in his family not being saved, or have Christ's favor where he can be the CAUSE of his whole family being saved?

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
---aservant on 1/2/17


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john9346 wrote: "I did and hear what he said:..""

Sorry, but the Holy Spirit does not quote verses. But, if you insist, here are a few that says otherwise:

Jesus expressly said, "...I ascended to your Father and my Father, your God and my God."

God appointed one man whom he raised from the dead to judge the world through him. Acts 17:30, 31.

The messenger in Revelation 19:10 instructed John not to worship any man. Jesus is a man.

Jesus said in Mark 10 'why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.'

Jesus talks about his God in Revelation 3:12

In summary, be careful taking certain words concerning "lord," and "worship" to mean deity.
---Steveng on 1/2/17


Its laughable reading Nic.Lacey's posts.//

I will laugh WITH you if you CAN answer my questions.

Some have NERVOUS LAUGHS nervous when CAUGHT RED HANDED.

//I correctly cite from The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. III, p. 656.//

Sweetheart, I cited the TRUE citation and exposed your lie

//..attested to by other Encylopedia's as previously posted.//

I don't CARE what other encyclopedias say. Only the Catholic one.

//show where the Apostles celebrated Jesus' birth on Dec.25//

Sweetheart, we are pass that ridiculous question.

cannot fathom what Zechariah was doing.---David8318

Simple one, I asked WHAT FEAST was Zechariah celebrating in Luke 1.

Can you answer that?!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/2/17


steveng states, "Or you simply could ask the Holy Spirit for guidance."

Sir, I did and hear what he said:

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Jn 8:24

"58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Jn 8:58

"5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." Jn 18:5-6
---john9346 on 1/2/17


aservant,

I agree wholeheartedly with the verses you cited. I was just saying to you so you could understand where david8318 is coming from.

I see a lot of people on these blogs attack other Belief Systems without understanding the individual they are speaking with. These are real people who have real lives.

David8318, may know or it make take time for him to confess the Trinity and the incarnation that is God's Electing Choice,however, if he confess the "Trinity and the incarnation." he may lose his entire livelyhood do you knowhow it feels if your mom or dad or your entire family are forbidden to have anything to do with you for the rest of your life??
---john9346 on 1/2/17


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For sure NicoleLacey has totally lost the plot. Its laughable reading Nic.Lacey's posts. I think by now most reading this thread will have seen the quote I correctly cite from The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. III, p. 656.

The fact Pagan Emperor Aurelian chose December 25 in 274AD is attested to by other Encylopedia's as previously posted. I'm still waiting for Nic.Lacey to show where the Apostles celebrated Jesus' birth on Dec.25 by heavy drinking, over eating and over spending.

Luke chapter 1 says what Zechariah was doing when Gabriel appeared to him. Nic.Lacey is devoid of any scriptural comprehension and cannot fathom what Zechariah was doing. I've explained in my previous post when Jesus was born. Work it out!
---David8318 on 1/2/17


//My original post on 12/30/16: The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: 'On Dec. 25, 274AD, Aurelian..'. (1967), Vol. III, p. 656.//

IT DOESN'T SAY THAT!

Didn't you learn about footnotes in school?

//Also confirmed by:
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia//

ISN'T the New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol III page 656.

//History Today magazine, issue 59, 12 Dec.2009.//

Still not the New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. III page 656.

//Wikipedia, and many other Encyclopedia's and online references//

Okay, but NOT in the New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol III p 656

//The Apostles did not celebrate any event on the pagan date December 25.---David8318

As StrongAxe said, they go to the bathroom either.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/2/17


\\Please notice that Nic.Lacey hasn't tried to prove Jesus birth was celebrated in the Bible. \\

Just as David has not proven that computers were used in the Bible.

OTOH, David has NOT proven that the Nativity According to the Flesh of Our Lord, God, and Savioiur jesus Christ was not observed in Biblical times.

Happy New Year!
---Cluny on 1/2/17


David, a wise man Karl Keating from Catholic Answers said "Argue to EXPLAIN not to win"

//Wikipedia, and many other Encyclopedia's and online references//

Maybe, but you ONLY cited New Catholic Encyclopedia. Lets move on

1. Give Biblical Proof that Jesus was born in Sept/Oct.

2. If Zechariah in Luke 1:8-9 ISN'T celebrating the Feasts of Tabernacles, state the FEAST?

If you can't prove your case then STOP DEBATING! or at least stop explaining.

Calling names doesn't work on me. We only have 125 word max.
Don't waste it on name calling.

Use those words to PROVE YOUR CASE!

A. Jesus was born in September/Oct.

B. Which feast Zechariah was celebrating in Luke 1
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/2/17


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//John Chrysostom was able to figure [Dec.25]//- NicoleLacey.

Yes by twisting and lying about Luke chapter 1 in the same way Nic.Lacey does.

Please notice that Nic.Lacey hasn't tried to prove Jesus birth was celebrated in the Bible. But rather being a good pagan, NicLacey has tried to nail down the date December 25 as scriptural. The date is the most important aspect in all of this because December 25 is the most sacred day on the pagan calendar.

And Nic.Lacey will twist and lie about scripture- notably Luke chapter 1- in a failed effort to make the pagan holy-day scriptural. Nic.Lacey has yet to show where the Apostles celebrated Jesus' birth with heavy drinking, over eating and over spending?
---David8318 on 1/2/17


NicoleLacey will scream like a banshee the pagans stole December 25 from the Christians, but this is just another lie.

My original post on 12/30/16: The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: 'On Dec. 25, 274AD, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the [Roman] empire... a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome'. (1967), Vol. III, p. 656.

Also confirmed by:

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia

History Today magazine, issue 59, 12 Dec.2009.

Wikipedia, and many other Encyclopedia's and online references will confirm Aurelian started using December 25 in 274AD.

The Apostles did not celebrate any event on the pagan date December 25.
---David8318 on 1/2/17


David8318:

You wrote: Scripture shows the Apostles and 1st Century Christians never celebrated Jesus' birth on any date.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That is a common logic error. You can say "scripture never said they did", but you cannot infer from this that "scripture said they never did". Scripture also never says the apostles went to the bathroom either, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that they never had to.
---StrongAxe on 1/1/17


David, your refusal to use common sense is ridiculous!

St. John Chrysostom was able to figure it with ONLY THE BIBLE in the year 386 AD, but for some reason you can't?

//Christians have never celebrated Jesus' birth 1.Because the date is not known//

It was known to them that is the reason the date is STILL DEC 25TH TODAY.

2. Scripture shows the Apostles and 1st Century Christians never celebrated Jesus' birth on any date.

//I have the hard copy in front of me. Look it up online if you have to.//

I did and your wishful statement wasn't in it!

It only had what I cited.

Your hard copy book doesn't have it either.

//Then judge who is lying!---David8318

I proved it was you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/1/17


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//You have no evidence that they didn't//- Cluny.

Yes I do... the Bible. There is no record of the Apostles celebrating Jesus' birth and as Nic.Lacey points out- the date of Jesus birth is not known.

//there was a TV show on one of the history channels proving this very thing//- Cluny.

Oh well there we have it. Cluny is more interested in the History channel than he is in what the Bible says.

Maybe Cluny was mistakenly watching the Disney channel, or perhaps Nickelodeon. Fantasy is more in tune with Cluny's understanding.

Cluny and Nic.Lacey are really scrapping the old pagan barrel on this one!
---David8318 on 1/1/17


//John was conceived immediately after the feast of Tabernacles Luke 1:5-24//- NicoleLacey.

This is completely and utterly false! Nic.Lacey is a charlatan and a hoaxster!

Where in Luke chapter 1 does it mention the Festival of Booths (or Tabernacles)? Nic.Lacey is talking utter rubbish. Twisting scripture to suit a pagan agenda.

Jesus was born 15 months after the priestly "Division of Abijah"- Lu.1:5. The priestly division John's father Zechariah was serving in at the time Gabriel appeared to him.

Gabriel then appeared to Mary 6 months later- Lu.1:26,27. Jesus was born 9 months after that.

Jesus was born late September, early October.
---David8318 on 1/1/17


john9346 wrote: "And as explained you again and again and bears repeating to you. Your citation is his "Incarnation." have you not read Jn 8:24, 8:58, and 18:5-6??"

Insted of relying on your worldly knowledge to interpret scripture do research on how certain words ("lord" and "God" are used in context) from the hebrew / greek language is translated into english.

Or you simply could ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.
---Steveng on 1/1/17


. . . the cost to a JW for being disfellowshipped?? ---john9346 on 1/1/17

Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul . . .

Rev 21:8 . . . unbelieving . . . and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


It is more important for you and Lying David to know the cost of being a traitor and enemy to Jesus.
---aservant on 1/1/17


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//The date of Christ's birth is not known//- NicoleLacey.

So how does Nicole know Christians were celebrating Jesus' birth on December 25 before pagans adopted it? NicoleLacey's argument is ridiculous!

Truth is, Christians have never celebrated Jesus' birth 1. Because the date is not known, and 2. Scripture shows the Apostles and 1st Century Christians never celebrated Jesus' birth on any date.

The citation from The New Catholic Encyclopedia I provide from the 1967 edition, Vol. III, p. 656 contains both the citation I gave on 12/30/16 and the one Nic.Lacey gave on 12/31/16. I have the hard copy in front of me. Look it up online if you have to.

Then judge who is lying!
---David8318 on 1/1/17


//you haven't given any scriptural proof the Apostles celebrated Jesus' birth on December 25 during the 1st or 2nd Century's.//

So what, they didn't celebrate the resurrection either

We are talking about the Christmas date being on Dec 25th. Which I gave Biblical proof: Luke 1:5-24, Luke 1:26 and Lev 23:34

You can't ERASE your post. You left out Vol III.

***The date of Christ's birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month. New Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III, page 656.

No mention of pagan Aurelian as you claim.

//you are pagan---David8318

Sweetie, if you are JW's it is you who is the pagan.

You hate Christmas because you don't believe in the Incarnation.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/1/17


\\You have no evidence the Apostles celebrated on December 25\\

You have no evidence that they didn't.

\\ and you LIE by saying they pagans stole the date from Christians.\\

As a matter of fact, there was a TV show on one of the history channels proving this very thing.

Happy New Year!
---Cluny on 1/1/17


steveng states, "Jesus is NOT God. Jesus said to Mary, "...your Father and my Father, your God and my God."
And as explained you again and again and bears repeating to you. Your citation is his "Incarnation." have you not read Jn 8:24, 8:58, and 18:5-6??
---john9346 on 1/1/17


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aservant said, "I have shown this to you before, Lying David. You keep rejecting the Truth out of Jesus' own mouth. You can't be a Christian if you will not respect and believe the Christ."

Sir, its not david8318 himself its the watchtower Organization.

The watchtower has spoken on this matter, "Case Closed end of discussion."

To disagree or violate this interpretation is to risk being disfellowshipped.

Aservant, do you know the cost to a JW for being disfellowshipped??
---john9346 on 1/1/17


john9346:

The closest is the one who doesn't NECESSARILY partake in christmas.
---StrongAxe on 12/30/16

The closest is the one who will have nothing to do with it at all... Not the one who will necessarily not partake...
---john9346 on 1/1/17


SHAME ON YOU... NicoleLacey.

No you haven't given any scriptural proof the Apostles celebrated Jesus' birth on December 25 during the 1st or 2nd Century's.

If it was that important I'm sure it would have been recorded in scripture. But its not, and they didn't.

With regard to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, it is YOU, NicoleLacey who is being DISHONEST. The citation I give is there in that Encyclopedia on p.656. Pagan Aurelian was using Dec.25 as far back as 274AD.

You have no evidence the Apostles celebrated on December 25 and you LIE by saying they pagans stole the date from Christians. SHAME ON YOU!

But then again, you are pagan so it doesn't make any difference to you!
---David8318 on 1/1/17


//The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: 'On Dec. 25, 274AD, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the [Roman] empire... a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome'. (1967), Vol. III, p. 656.//

SHAME ON YOU!

This is what you citation really SAYS:

***The date of Christ's birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month.New Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III, page 656.

//..to see what evidence NicoleLacey has to prove 1st & 2nd Century Christians celebrated Jesus' Birth on December 25?---David8318

I WON'T LIE LIKE YOU!

I already gave my Biblical proofs.

READ IT BELOW!

Debate honestly if you can?

BE A MAN!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/31/16


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Jamea7799, the Bible tells us the dates.

John was conceived immediately after the feast of Tabernacles Luke 1:5-24 V24 After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.

5 months after September is February.

Gabriel tells Mary that Elizabeth is in her 6 month (March)

Luke 1:26 In the sixth month of Elizabeths pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee Mary 9 months later is LATE December.

Because the Feast of Tabernacles STARTS on the 15th.

Lev 23:34 On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the Lords Festival of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for SEVEN DAYS.

15th +7days= 22nd day

Zechariah needs time to go home to Elizabeth.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/31/16


Nicole_Lacey wrote: "Secularist ALWAYS steals celebrations from the Christians.

Actually, it's the other way around as written in the bible.

Nicole_Lacey wrote: "Protecting Jesus' Divinity. Jesus is TRUE MAN and TRUE GOD.

Jesus is NOT God. Jesus said to Mary, "...your Father and my Father, your God and my God."
---Steveng on 12/31/16


Most people believe that Jesus death happen at the age of 33 and half years, after which of course He rose from the dead to become our First-Fruit--the First Fruit of the Resurrection.

But if Jesus death happen when He was 33 and a half, He being killed on Passover which is midway thru the Jewish 1st month, will then He would have been born on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles which is the 15th day of the 7th month, probably early October. Not late in December.

When we read John 1:14 the words dwell among us in the KJV, is often translated as tabernacled among us in other versions.
---Jamea7799 on 12/31/16


Cluny:

You wrote: There was a pious idea in pre-Christian Judaism that holy men died on the anniversary of their conception.

That an idea is pious by no means implies that it is necessarily true. In fact, the very existence of such a custom gives credence to the notion that the date was set artificially (i.e. "proof by aesthetics") rather than following the actual date.


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: March 25th was a fixed date before the Nativity.

Oh? Who fixed it, and when did they do so?
---StrongAxe on 12/31/16


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Secularists use Santa. Cluny and I have St Nicholas feast days with is Dec 6th/Dec 19th

The Secularist took that image and placed it on Christmas day. St. Nick

Secularist ALWAYS steals celebrations from the Christians.

Teach your family.

Our family doesn't take down the Christian decorations before January 1st.

12 days of Christmas continues until Jan 6th 3 Kings day.

This evening we celebrate the Solemnity of Mary as Mother of God. Protecting Jesus' Divinity. Jesus is TRUE MAN and TRUE GOD.

The Christmas season ends with John the Baptist baptizes Jesus.

Secularist mix or replace Christian's celebrations.

Catholics and Orthodox have Advent, Christmas and it's season. All for God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/31/16


\\That explains why they are 9 months apart, but are you sure which day in the calendar was established first?\\

There was a pious idea in pre-Christian Judaism that holy men died on the anniversary of their conception.

Christ was crucified during the Paschal observance, which can include 25 March.

Christ is born! Glorify Him.
---Cluny on 12/30/16


//Scripture itself does not provide a date for the Anunciation, any more than it provides one for Christmas.--john9346:

March 25th was a fixed date before the Nativity.

St. John Chrysostom explained Scripturally how the Nativity Date came about. He preached:

****(Lk 1:10)...greatest Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, which occurs in late September or early October. Zachary returned home, Elizabeth conceived soon thereafter, and the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary while Elizabeth was in her sixth month (not after six months),-- St. John Chrysostom gave a homily on Christmas (in fact, five of his Christmas sermons survive) about 386 AD (Migne, Patriologus Graecae, vol. 49, cols. 351-362, esp. Section 5, col. 357)- Catholic Answers.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/30/16


Let's get this blog back on course besides dates.

Didn't God command his people NOT to absorb the religious practices of pagan people? Deuteronomy 12: 30-32

God does not want to be worshiped or honored using pagan customs, but it seams most "christians" dismiss this teaching because it comes from the old testament and/or written to the hebrews only.

One of the hidden dangers concerns "Santa." What will the children think about God when the parents tell them Santa does not exist? What about the Easter Bunny, the coloring of eggs, etc?
---Steveng on 12/30/16


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//BEFORE the Pagans//- NicoleLacey.

Pagans will argue you took December 25 from them!

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: 'On Dec. 25, 274AD, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the [Roman] empire... a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome'. (1967), Vol. III, p. 656.

Then during the 4th Century, Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine (founder of the RCC and its Orthodox sects) adopted December 25 as the date Jesus' birth should be celebrated.

It would be interesting to see what evidence NicoleLacey has to prove 1st & 2nd Century Christians celebrated Jesus' Birth on December 25? There is no Biblical record of any Apostles celebrating Jesus' birth.
---David8318 on 12/30/16


God resurrected him to life "in the spirit" . . . ---David8318 on 12/29/16

Jesus resurrected Himself, in flesh.

Jn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Lk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet . . . a spirit hath not flesh and bones . . .

I have shown this to you before, Lying David. You keep rejecting the Truth out of Jesus' own mouth. You can't be a Christian if you will not respect and believe the Christ.
---aservant on 12/30/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: December 25th date is CONNECTED to the March 25th date 'The Annunciation' 9 months apart because: It takes 9 months for a baby to develop in the womb.

That explains why they are 9 months apart, but are you sure which day in the calendar was established first? Perhaps Christmas was first established at December 25, and the Anunciation was later back-dated 9 months from it? Scripture itself does not provide a date for the Anunciation, any more than it provides one for Christmas.


john9346:


The closest is the one who doesn't NECESSARILY partake in christmas.
---StrongAxe on 12/30/16


Why do christians celebrate christmas knowing they have pagan roots? Are there hidden dangers in celebrating Christmas? ---Steveng on 12/25/16

If men and women can be converted from pagan worship to Christianity, coverting their celebration days to Christian celebration days would seem to follow.

There are spiritual dangers everyday on TV, in books and movies. We must know when to turn the channel and when to reject certain book and movies.
---aservant on 12/29/16


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David, you gave an excuse why December 25 shouldn't be celebrated just because Pagans made it their most sacred day.

I said Americans NOT Christians as regards to the 4th of July.

//December 25 was already a pagan holy-day.//

Cluny and I ALREADY told you Christians celebrated Christmas on December 25th BEFORE the Pagans ADOPTED IT.

Do you understand?

Pagan TOOK the date from Christians.

That's why I used the 'what if' scenario.

//Even if the Bible did provide the exact date of Jesus' birth..---David8318

December 25th date is CONNECTED to the March 25th date 'The Annunciation'

9 months apart because:

It takes 9 months for a baby to develop in the womb.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/29/16


//They don't believe in the bodily Resurrection... of Christ// Cluny.

Neither did the apostle Peter who wrote:

"He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit"- 1Pe.3:18 (NIV).

Also Paul who wrote, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"- 1Cor.15:50 (NIV).

Jesus came in the flesh and lived on earth as a human and died as a human. God resurrected him back to life "in the spirit", and Jesus ascended back to his Father in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Jesus did not return to heaven in a fleshly body. Jesus returned to heaven as a spirit being as taught by Peter and Paul in the scriptures above.
---David8318 on 12/29/16


strongaxe and Cluny,

gentlemen,

When I stated that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't command the celebration of his birth, I was saying if someone does or doesn't either way there is liberty.

Some Christians think if someone doesn't celebrate christmas they are unbelievers, but they need to understand there is no such command to do so by the Lord Jesus himself in Scripture.

So, at the end of the day, the one that is following "Scripture." the closest is the one who doesn't partake in christmas. This is known as the Reform Principles, (Regulative vs Normative)

See, Rom 14:5-6, Col 2:16-17, Gal 5:13, and 1 Pet 2:16.


May God guide to his truths,


John
---john9346 on 12/29/16


//4th of July// NicoleLacey.

What scriptural requirement is there for Christians to celebrate in July 4?

And anyway, you're missing the point. You provide a "what if" scenario. December 25 is not like that at all. December 25 is not a "what if" situation. December 25 was already a pagan holy-day. A pagan holy-day which apostate Christendom adopted (by its Pagan Roman Emperor) in the 4th century. And as the most sacred of pagan holy-days, it was by no coincidence that Christendom adopted December 25.

Even if the Bible did provide the exact date of Jesus' birth (and to some extent it does), pagans would still celebrate December 25!
---David8318 on 12/29/16


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john9346:

You wrote: The Lord Jesus in Scripture didn't command the celebration of his birth, but his death, burial, and resurrection.

Right, but he didn't forbid it either. We do many things today that Jesus never commanded either (like arguing on internet blogs). Some consider this day especially holy. Some consider all days equally holy, with this one not being anything more special. It's all good. Let each be persuaded in his own mind (as Paul said).
---StrongAxe on 12/28/16


\\The Lord Jesus in Scripture didn't command the celebration of his birth,///

He didn't forbid it, either.

I'm not saying that YOU don't believe in the Incarnation, but JW's, don't, so it makes perfect sense for them not to observe the Nativity. They don't believe in the bodily Resurrection or Ascention of Christ, either.

Christians were observing 25 December as the Feast of the Incarnation BEFORE it was a pagan observance started by Julian the Apostate.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/28/16


John1944, sarcasm won't get you anywhere. I know you trivialise these matters, perhaps that's what believing in falsehoods does to you. Both in Jesus and Paul's day they mocked and laughed at what they said. Even Noah was mocked for his faith. No different today. Keep on mocking john1944. Shows that I'm on the right path- Matt.5:11, Gal.6:7.
---David8318 on 12/28/16


Well,

I believe, defend, and worship the "Blessed Incarnation." of the Lord JesusChrist, but I do not celebrate christmas.

The Lord Jesus in Scripture didn't command the celebration of his birth, but his death, burial, and resurrection.
---john9346 on 12/27/16


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David, you are right. I am blindly towing the Trinitarian line. I apologize for all the things I said to try to contradict you. I promise I will join the Watchtower Society as soon as possible. After reading your posts, I can resist no longer. Jehovah bless you!
---john1944 on 12/27/16


//25 December [observed] BEFORE Constantine//- Cluny.

//Pagan Roman Emperor Diocletian used December 25 to murder Christians in honour of his false god...
December 25, (or January 7 if you're un-orthodox) is the most sacred day on the pagan calendar.---David8318

???

So if North Korea Leader Kim Jong-un decided to kill Americans every 4th of July and makes it their most sacred day in North Korea, we can't use that date any more?

Americans should STOP celebrating our independence on the 4th of July?

Why are you worried about how other people are celebrating certain date of the year?

Do you feel you need their permission to use a date they love so much?

If yes, Why?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/27/16


//doctrine of the Incarnation//- Cluny.

What is consistent is the correlation between those who believe Jesus was "incarnated" and that a "nativity" celebration is necessary. Are these words in the Bible? Probably not. They consistently use terms that are inconsistent with Bible teaching.

//25 December [observed] BEFORE Constantine//- Cluny.

Yes this is true. By Roman pagans who used December 25 as the birthday of their god Mithra. Pagan Roman Emperor Diocletian used December 25 to murder Christians in honour of his false god.

December 25, (or January 7 if you're un-orthodox) is the most sacred day on the pagan calendar.
---David8318 on 12/27/16


Cluny:

You wrote: I've noticed that most people who do not celebrate the Nativity of our Savior don't really believe the true doctrine of the Incarnation. There is a strange consistency about this.

This is hardly surprising. One can divide people into two categories: those who believe in the Incarnation, and those who don't. Among those who don't, why should any care about the Nativity?

Among those who do, as Paul wrote, there are some who treat some days (e.g. Dec. 25) as more holy, while others treat all days as equally holy - let each be persuaded in his own mind.
---StrongAxe on 12/27/16


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I've noticed that most people who do not celebrate the Nativity of our Savior don't really believe the true doctrine of the Incarnation.

There is a strange consistency about this.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/16


john1944:

You wrote: Why do people wear wedding rings, knowing they have Pagan roots?

So what? Many words and names we use have pagan roots. The names of most days and months do. Esther and Mordecai, the heroes of the book of Esther (and, indeed, the very name of the book) are named after pagan gods. So were several New Testament figures like Appolos. Jesus said to pay taxes to Rome, even though those taxes went to fund armies conquering foreign nations and forcing them to worship pagan gods. If we criticize things just because they are tainted by paganism, we must condemn some bible authors and Jesus himself for doing so.
---StrongAxe on 12/27/16


//I would not throw out anything, just because of how pagan people use it.//

HOW TRUE! They hacked Easter as well, but many still celebrate Jesus' Resurrection

BTW, many are not aware that Christians have been celebrating Jesus' birth before Pagans started using that date as an diversion tactic.

Dec 25th date is an result of the March 25th date 'The Annunciation' 9 MONTH EARLIER.

//It was a pagan action to crucify Jesus---Bill

The Pagan was the ONLY PERSON who tried to SAVE Jesus.

Jewish Leaders where the ones who brought Jesus to him.

They refused the opportunity to SAVE Jesus given by the Pagan.

When the Pagan refuse to crucify Jesus they blackmailed him into crucifying Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/27/16


Well,

I don't celebrate christmas,however, there is a vast difference between celebrating christmas and celebrating/honoring the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ...

The days of the week are also pagan,yet, many say them and write them. So, why pick and choose sin is sin wrong is wrong.
---john9346 on 12/26/16


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Rachel in Ramah weeping for her children are no more. Bible birthdays include also the baker losing his head and John the Baptist losing his head. But of Jesus birth, light came into the world. Should this not be celebrated?
---mike4879 on 12/26/16


Why do people wear wedding rings, knowing they have Pagan roots?
---john1944 on 12/26/16


Steveng, you and your worldly denomination "church" prove the poet's wisdon: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
---Cluny on 12/26/16

Steveng's lack of worldly knowledge is according to cluny is a bad thing. Hmmmm...
Perhaps your(Clunys) lack of scriptural understanding is far worse. Deceiving his own ortho-self is perhaps the saddest.
Pro_11:12 He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace.
Pro_14:6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.
Pro_14:8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.
---Trav on 12/26/16


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