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Doctrine Of Sola Scriptura

When the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is properly understood,

Does it teach that no one needs anyone to teach them??\

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 ---john9346 on 1/8/17
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Oh Father, how I love your WORD, and Who the WORD would be.

I know the WORD is your own Son, And I know He Lives in me.

Oh Jesus I do Love You, and this one thing I know, It's not from our head knowledge that your love in us will grow.

It's faith in Our Lord Jesus, from the heart we open wide, To let Him in forevermore, and there with Him abide.

By kathr4453 May 1983. I was only 2 years saved when I wrote that from personal experience. It's only the last verse.

Jesus is the BREAD OF LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/17


Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Babies do need to be hand fed. Adults do NOT need their meat chewed up for them.

I also can't seem to find a single verse that God has ORDAINED Teachers to have the rule over you. None of the GIFTS given to the whole body of Christ comes with AUTHORITY TO RULE OVER ANYONE.

The Gentile heathens who came to Christ DID need to be taught, as they were without God.

Now we have complete scripture to teach us where Gods Word alone is the ONLY AUTHORITY . And we all KNOW who the WORD IS....at least I do.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


Hello readers,

The Posting Question asked "When the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is properly understood,

Does it teach that no one needs anyone to teach them?? The answer to this question is no.

As demonstrated on this posting, the "Scriptures." give examples of leaders ordained by God to teach us:


1. Paul taught Timothy.

2. Paul reminded Timothy of the Sincere Faith that was in his grandmother and his mom implying it was learned from them.

3. Paul instructed Timothy to teach those who were under him.

4. Paul taught Titus and instructed him to teach those under him.

5. In Exo 18, Yahweh himself established through Moses leadership to guide the people.
---john9346 on 1/13/17


questions that were never addressed:

1. If it is wrong to be taught by pastors/teachers/elders then why did Paul command Timothy and Titus to teach those under them??

2. If it is wrong to be taught by pastors/teachers/elders, then why did Yahweh establish Biblical Leaders in Exo 18??

3. If it is wrong to be taught by pastors/teachers/elders, then why did Paul give the instructions he did to Timothy in 1 Tim 3??
---john9346 on 1/13/17


To recap:

1. When the Doctrine of "Sola Scriptura." is understood it proclaim that the Scriptures alone are the Infallible Rule for faith and practice for the Christian.

2. As the Infallible Rule for faith and practice it establishes means by which it is to be understood.

3. One of the "Means." is being taught by elders/pastors/teachers.

4. Being "Self Taught." is abhorrent to "Scripture." no "Private Revelations." the "Scriptures." came through 40 men not just 1.
---john9346 on 1/13/17




5. The Scriptures do not forbid the reading, studying, and quoting of the Church Fathers because the reading of the fathers is just like going to listen to a sermon its only a means of "Sola Scriptura." not the denial of it.
---john9346 on 1/13/17


John John John again it says NO PROPHECY is of private interpretation. Do you know the difference between PROPHECY and instruction? Of coarse no prophecy is of private interpretation. And that is why Revelation being prophecy is not to be added to or taken away from.

However your continual ignoring scripture that has been posted here shows you have already been brainwashed to believe you need others to tell you what scripture means, BUT THEY CAN'T provide the FAITH needed for you to OBEY.

I agree 100% with Mike here. The Word of God was given to the Prophets and Apostles. And the Holy Spirit is who leads us into all truth and REVEALS truth through the PURE MILK OF THE WORD.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


But YES, I do agree John that Calvinism and the TULIP does need to be taught by man to man, because seeing it is not in scripture in the first place, there is no way anyone could learn that on their own. THIS IS THE ISSUE HERE CORRECT?

Because "whosoever will" has been REDEFINED by man to mean the elect only. There are many instances of words being redefined by man in the Calvin doctrine.

And because John is a Calvinist promoting the TULIP, not in scripture, he needs man to reinforce this non biblical doctrine, and insists YOU need his man made teachers to teach you Calvinism. RUN!

Because we are of different beliefs John, I can never be in agreement with you and vice verse.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


1 Peter 3:12

12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

God delights in answering our prayers, and teaching you about HIM, His Rihteousness, His Judgements and His Lovingkindness, but we must ask by faith, and not be double minded, or He won't answer you at all.

Now just because someone does not have this relationship, does not mean I do not have this relationship. It only means that person does not have it, because that person is either not saved, OR does not know any better. Taste and SEE that the Lord is Good John. Step out on FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


Hello Mike4879:

"ALREADY we have the writers of the scriptures as teachers, so we are not TEACHERLESS!"

Correct, but those authors/writers of "Scripture." trained other teachers to teach others.
"You seem to be saying if we do not have more teachers that we are teacherless."

No, I am saying that "Sola Scriptura." provides for us the means (teachers/teaching) by which to understand and live it.

Remember, the examples I cited Paul teaching Timothy, Titus, Timothy being taught by his Grandmother and mom, Moses being used of Yahweh to establish leadership in Exo 18.
---john9346 on 1/13/17




Mike4879:

1. John 5:34 has nothing to do with denying we need teachers because the Lord Jesus is speaking of himself and he is God and he can testify of himself we are not God.

Like you said, "THE LAMB is qualified!"

2. Like you just stated my friend the Lord Jesus said, "so we were to listen to them, but not be like them."

Sir, you are saying the same thing I am saying this is known as the Means of Sola Scriptura.

The Lord Jesus told the people to listen to their teachers, Again, this is known as the Means of Sola Scriptura.
---john9346 on 1/13/17


To make sure there is clarity for everyone here


1. If those believing they are "Self Taught." are statingreading and studying the "Scriptures."individually to understand to live yes.

2. If they are stating that God Alone speaks to them personally no, "Scripture." states, "19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

2 Pet 1:19-20

Being "Self Taught, Personally Taught." is abhorrent to "Scripture."
---john9346 on 1/13/17


Thank you, Kathr4453, on your remarks about the Bereans. I too willed to bring these up! I could not word it better.
---mike4879 on 1/13/17


It has to do with ones relationship with the Lord. When I was first saved, I asked the Lord to teach me, according to His Word. I said I want to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And I said Jesus, YOU are the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE. The Lord answered my prayers according to His promises. FAITH

Psalm 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O Lord, teach me thy paths.Psalm 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation, on thee do I wait all the day.Psalm 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. Psalm 25:12 What man is he that feareth the Lord? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
I thank and Praise God every day for HIS FAITHFULNESS.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


And my point is this!

ALREADY we have the writers of the scriptures as teachers, so we are not TEACHERLESS!

You seem to be saying if we do not have more teachers that we are teacherless.
---mike4879 on 1/13/17


Just to add on Mikes note here, when Paul preached, the BEREANS checked the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true. The ONLY scriptures then was the OT. And they checked the scriptures DAILY. They actually had at their access the scriptures. Who were these Bereans? Obviously common folk who could read and understand the scriptures. We don't see them running to this person or that, or this Rabbi or that Rabbi. These folks searched the scriptures DAILY to verify Pauls teaching. Thank you Lord for having the insight in giving us this verse.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


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"Worthy is THE LAMB!" THE LAMB is qualified!

Of others, it is written that Moses was faithful in all God's House, and Jesus said you have sent to John and John testified to the truth, ("NOT THAT I ACCEPT HUMAN TESTIMONY,") but I mention it that you will be saved. Jesus also said that born of woman, there was no one greater than John. Jesus did not accept human testimony, but mentions it. He also asks often, "What is written?" AND Jesus often says "It is written." Jesus said that the teachers of the law sat in the seat of Moses, so we were to listen to them, but not be like them for they were HYPOCRITES! My point! Already we have the writers of the scriptures as teachers so we are not TEACHERLESS!
---mike4879 on 1/13/17


John, maybe if you tried to meet folks at least half way here, you might come across as a good teacher yourself. But since you have not, it is spectlative as to what your motive is to rebuke everyone's input.

God in fact DOES TEACH US. Can't you just acknowledge this truth.

9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Tell is John, can you tell us at least ONE thing the Lord personally taught you.....just one thing?

I will play your game.....if you Don't tell us then we will assume the Lord has NEVER taught you or revealed to you ONE THING.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/17


Mike 4879 saids, "No thanks, John! I am not a subscriber to the idea you support which is that we should follow unqualified teachers instead of the Bible alone."

Sir, in Scripture, name for us all here 1 man in "Scripture." who was qualified??

Next, you are confusing "Sola Scriptura." which is one thing with the Means of Sola Scriptura (in this case being taught by pastors, elders, reading the church fathers, etc.)

Mike, the Scriptures themselves state God himself uses others to teach the church see Eph 4:11-13.
---john9346 on 1/12/17


Mike4879 ask, "Without question, we should follow teachers, because we cannot understand the Bible on our own seems to be your position."

Sir, first, I appreciate you for asking my position and not concluding my position I respect you for doing this...

My point here is When the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is properly understood, does it teach that no one needs anyone to teach them?? The answer is no it doesn't.
---john9346 on 1/12/17


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How do we know "Sola Scriptura." doesn't forbid us from being taught by others?

1. Paul taught Timothy.

2. Paul reminded Timothy of the Sincere Faith that was in his grandmother and his mom implying it was learned from them.

3. Paul instructed Timothy to teach those who were under him.

4. Paul taught Titus and instructed him to teach those under him.
---john9346 on 1/12/17


Hello readers,

Invite all to read Exo 18 where Yahweh himself established through Moses leadershipnote the words stated in Exo 18:17-18:

"and Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good."

18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee, thou art not able to perform it thyself alone."

Pay attention to Moses's Father-in-law words, "The thing that thou doest is not good." "thou art not able to perform it thyself alone."

Everyone, this is Biblical Leadership and it is commanded and authorized by "Sola Scriptura."



---john9346 on 1/12/17


This is my prayer for John. If he considers this snide, I am so sad for him. My prayer for John with all my heart.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
---kathr4453 on 1/12/17


Ecclesiastes 12:12-13, Be warned, my son, of any thing in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. ...here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

Ecclesiastes 6:11 The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?

No thanks, John! I am not a subscriber to the idea you support which is that we should follow unqualified teachers instead of the Bible alone. Without question, we should follow teachers, because we cannot understand the Bible on our own seems to be your position.
---mike4879 on 1/12/17


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What John is promoting is what is called "Authoritative Tradition". The idea that Paul passed on authority to Timothy is totally taken out of context. Before we had the Complete Bible, things were different. Thank goodness for the reformers who put the Word of God in Everyone's hands so that man did not have to depend on the CF to decider. This same mentality still lives today that the common man cannot understand scripture, and that we NEED the CF to decider it for us. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG?

Jesus is made unto us WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE. The wisdom and knowledge that comes through revelation of Himself to each of His Members of His Body. We are ONE with God in Christ. Christ lives IN US.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/17


mike4879 said, "How is anyone "SELF-TAUGHT" when it is already known that we, the readers, are not the writers and scripture did not originate with us,"

Sir, Self-taught means those individuals who believe that they themselves have personal revelation. These individuals believe that no one can teach them they believe they don't need to gather other believers and they don't to be in submission to pastors/teachers.
---john9346 on 1/12/17


Mike4879 ask, "More than the 40 PLUS TEACHERS we already got who collectively wrote what has become canonized scripture. You go over and beyond the 40 PLUS teachers we already got. Do you think you know more than they? Do you think they are inadequate?

Sir, thanks for this question.

But it seems you are confusing like I said before "Sola Scriptura."with Its Means.

Reading and studying the church fathers is a means to understand/live out "Sola Scriptura." like a Pastor's Sermon this isn't a replacement.

Listening to others is not a replacement of "Scripture." it a means by which to understand and live...
---john9346 on 1/12/17


Hello everyone,

I know you are not reading this posting to see the Personal Attacks, Juvenile Remarks, and the Snide Comments by Kathr.

This is what happen when someone can not address the "Scriptures." that refute there Belief System.

We have learned so far here that no where does "Scripture." forbid listening to others be that pastors, Bible Teachers, and the writings of the Church Fathers.

What we have seen is the Scriptures know of no practice of being "Self Taught." "Private Revelations."
2 Tim 2:15 was that Paul instructing Timothy and if you continue readingTimothy was to teach those under him the same thing.
---john9346 on 1/12/17


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How is anyone "SELF-TAUGHT" when it is already known that we, the readers, are not the writers and scripture did not originate with us, and that the writers are themselves OUR teachers? So then if there were 40 PLUS writers of the canonized scripture, then there are 40 PLUS teachers. Yet you want us to have more than the 40 PLUS TEACHERS we already got who collectively wrote what has become canonized scripture. You go over and beyond the 40 PLUS teachers we already got. Do you think you know more than they? Do you think they are inadequate?
---mike4879 on 1/12/17


4. Being "Self Taught." is abhorrent to "Scripture." no "Private Revelations." the "Scriptures." came through 40 men not just 1.
---john9346 on 1/11/17

And those 40 men are sufficient. Study to show your self approved unto God Rightly dividing the word of truth. Don't let any religiosity or CULT tell you different.

John is of the mindset of GROUP religion, not personal relationship. Since he still pushes Augustine, we must assume John is RCC. They do have a different understanding to Christianity than non Catholics. Stay in the Word of God Folks, for one day we will be judged by every word of God, not every second hand word of man.

Jesus said MY WORDS are SPIRIT AND LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/17


I've never understood why people think that the closer one was to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in date, the more superior their understanding was to the CROSS and the power of the Cross. The preaching of the cross is just as powerful today as it was the day Jesus rose from the dead.

Even in Jesus day as well as immediately after His death and resurrection, there were false teachers. Just read Peter John and Paul. They had already "Snuck in unaware". Augustine did.....how many more.

At least we KNOW the 40 didn't LIE, because their words are inspired by the Holy Spirit. And they are not hard to understand. Yet John wants to divert you to reading false teachers and be taught by them.....STRANGE?
---kathr4453 on 1/12/17


TO RECAP:

John is RCC.

John has never experienced a personal relationship with the Lord.

John has never been taught by the Lord.

Because John is man taught he doesn't know any better.

John applies the rules of man not found in scripture.

John has not been tested and tried where he MUST seek the Wisdom of God by faith, and not the wisdom of man, showing OBEDIENCE OF FAITH. And because of this simple truth, John is not qualified to teach you anything.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/17


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To recap:

1. When the Doctrine of "Sola Scriptura." is understood it proclaim that the Scriptures alone are the Infallible Rule for faith and practice for the Christian.

2. As the Infallible Rule for faith and practice it establishes means by which it is to be understood.

3. One of the "Means." is being taught by elders/pastors/teachers.

4. Being "Self Taught." is abhorrent to "Scripture." no "Private Revelations." the "Scriptures." came through 40 men not just 1.
---john9346 on 1/11/17


5. The Scriptures do not forbid the reading, studying, and quoting of the Church Fathers because the reading of the fathers is just like going to listen to a sermon its only a means of "Sola Scriptura." not the denial of it.

I believe this is where the confusion is.
---john9346 on 1/11/17


Hello readers,

First, this posting is about "SolaScriptura." and not about the Church Fathers. I only posted the books so everyone can read for themselves what the Church Fathers themselves really taught. There is much errors as all ready stated about Augustine that if properly read in the context of his own words wouldn't exist...


It is vital for everyone to gain
---john9346 on 1/11/17


Hello everyone,

Another good book by Augustine is "On Christian Doctrine." by Augustine.

If anyone will read confessions by Augustine, Augustine gives the testimony of how the Lord saved him from Paganism.

Remember, the books cited will give a fundamental understanding in to his life and the other Church Fathers.

Who needs Google when you can read the fathers in their own words.
---john9346 on 1/11/17


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I say it again, Augustine was a false teacher including his heresy on his interpretation of predestination.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/17

I am not sure I would go that far but I certainly have problems with many of the teachings of Augustine.

I believe there is error in his teachings.

He had a lot of Platonic and Gnostic influence in his beliefs.

I am also concerned with the direction his teachings have taken the Western church. For this reason alone, I have been reading the early church fathers (excluding Augustine) and have been investigating the doctrine of the ancient church.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/11/17


You keep pushing Augustine and Church Fathers who have added to scripture. So I don't get the point you are trying to make here. None of these points I posted Augustine believed and taught is in scripture. OR if you say they are, then it is a matter of debate and interpretation as to whether they really are. Each point will need at least 2-3 scriptures to back up.

These are the issues WHY the reformation came about...that these points ARE NOT SCRIPTURE, and no one has authority over you to force you to believe them, as many were murdered who did not believe them......seeing RCC perverted what " having AUTHORITY over others" meant. Calvin also ABUSED his so called AUTHORITY in murdering others.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/17


Outside of predestination, here are some of the catholic beliefs of Augustine:

Authoritative Tradition
Baptismal regeneration and grace
Necessity of baptism for salvation
Real presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Lord's Supper)
The Mass is a sacrifice Necessity of the Lord's Supper for salvation
Purgatory and praying for the departed
The communion of saints and saintly intercession
Authority of the Catholic Church
Apostolic Succession
Possibility of falling from grace
The sacrament of penance
Mary was ever virgin
---kathr4453 on 1/11/17


Now John scoffed at me that I said I had discernment that Augustine was a false teacher. I say it again, Augustine was a false teacher including his heresy on his interpretation of predestination.

So John, do you agree with ALL those points Augustine believed and taught I just posted? Remember NO LIE is of the truth. Do you consider Augustine a Church Father?
---kathr4453 on 1/11/17


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Hello readers,


God has ordained certain men to be our leaders (pastors, elders, teachers) this doesn't mean as stated by Bill that we don't teach each other,however, God in his sovereignty has set it to be that we are to be in submission to elders/pastors as our leaders.
2 chapters in context:

"17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." Heb 13:17
---john9346 on 1/11/17


"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly, not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind," 1 Pet 5:1-2.
---john9346 on 1/11/17


So you see the "Scriptures." do teach "Sola Scriptura." and at the same time provide the means by which to live out "Sola Scriptura." one of the means being taught under the leadership of pastors/teachers as our elders.

Remember I stated before the "Scriptures." didn't come to us by 1 man with a "Personal Revelation.", but 40 men over a period of 1500 years in different Geographical Locations.

The teaching of "Private Revelation." is ahorrent to "Scripture."
---john9346 on 1/11/17


I see, repeatedly the church fathers keep being raised and for those here who would like to really learn in genuineness about the church fathers who they were and what they really taught in their own words and from those whoknew them see below:


Books:

Confessions by Augustine.

Getting to Know the Church Fathers: An Evangelical Introduction [Bryan M. Litfin]

Rediscovering theChurch Fathers: who they were byMichael Haykin.
---john9346 on 1/11/17


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John, this OVER AND UNDER, mentality is what I have a problem with. This idea of "this ones OFFICE", as if the rest of us are in cubicles while others have OFFICES of importance and authority over us. This is what you come across as teaching, like I said is SOOO RCC mentality. Paul teaches we are all in submission to one another, that no one LORD IT OVER anyone, and that there be not many teachers, And that teachers are not OVER anyone and no one is in submission to a teacher. The Bible never teaches such things. Every member is gifted with something to offer that ministers to the BOC. AND each believer has the authority IN CHRIST, to accept or reject anyone's teaching if the Holy Spirit so deems ones teaching as heretical.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/17


definition of Sola Scriptura


The doctrine of Sola Scriptura teaches that the "Scriptures." are the "Final Authority." for faith and practice for the Christian. In other words, all traditions, thoughts, and opinions must come in to "Total Subjection." to the "Scriptures."
---john9346 on 1/10/17


The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby."
---john9346 on 1/10/17


Hello Readers,

In 1 Cor 4 Paul was writing to men to instruct other men so Paul even in this chapter is teaching that leaders in the Corinth Church were to teach those under them.

What paul laid down for these men were models for those leaders and those that would come after them.
---john9346 on 1/10/17


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Hello everyone:

Things to note:

1. Paul's Letter to Timothy is a letter containing instruction, Paul taught Timothy and Timothy was to teach others (No Self Taught)

2. Rom 10:14-15 which speaks to the necessity of preachers comes before Rom 12:1-2.

3. 2 Peter 1 is addressing "False Prophets." in context this is why Peter warned the believers of those who would come wit,"Private Interpretation." (The Lord teaches me.) "I need no one to teach me."

4. "Scripture." didn't come to us with just 1 man, but many men over a period of 1500 years.
---john9346 on 1/10/17


Before Luther said, "Sola Scriptura," Paul said, "DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN." (1 Corinthians 4:6) NIV, "learn through us NOT TO REGARD MEN ABOVE that which is written." (KJV), "NOTHING BEYOND what is written." (HCSB)

I have attended enough church services (of all Christian faiths) and am familiar with the Bible enough to know that churches and pastors and Christians are replacing the Bible with other teachings. We replace the Bible with other teachings. We are REPLACE testament Christians! We nullify the scriptures with what we teach. Sermons usually depart from the Bible and so do our daily lives. I will rather continue to read the Bible cover to cover than to have one sermon from John.
---mike4879 on 1/10/17


And John9346, what is "sola scriptura" to you? Do you disagree that sola scriptura translated to English means scripture alone? What is its meaning to you? What do you interpret it to mean? Luther is the one to say it. To be Lutheran is to say "I follow Luther. Yet the Lutheran church is nothing like Luther. One says, "I follow Apollos." Another says, "I follow Paul." Luther said, "Sola Scriptura."
---mike4879 on 1/10/17


Hello everyone,

To make sure everyone understands and know that the following statements is not the teaching of the Doctrine of "Sola Scriptura."

"Sola Scriptura is Scripture ALONE! Of myself, I am a member of no denomination. I do not subscribe to any denomination or inter-denomination. I have been Bible alone." "Yet in so far as church teaching, I am more from the school of the idea of Bible ALONE."
---john9346 on 1/10/17


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Romans 12:1-2

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

ONly GOD can transform our minds to have the mind of Christ, being changed from Glory to Glory by the SPIRIT OF THE LORD, done through the Word of God. It is done BY FAITH in His Promises. Not by intellect or reason of human understanding. The CF's WORDS have no POWER to transform anyone's mind who belong to the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/17


yes please do listen to 2Peter 1... The WHOLE CHAPTER. The verse is referring to private interpretation of PROPHECY, that is the Prophecy of the promise of the coming Redeemer of which Peter says they were eye witnesses of. Please folks, see how John takes one verse out of context to hammer out for you "his PRIVATE INTERPRETATION". That has nothing to do with what he wants you to think it says.

What You do John is called private interpretation. Augustine did as well.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/17


2 Timothy3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

John no PROPHECY is of private interpretation...but if you study to show yourself approved unto God, you would know that not all scripture is PROPHECY. Much of the word is INSTRUCTION. Instruction to be obeyed. And that obedience is a PRIVATE matter between me and the Lord. If you first STUDY to show yourself approved, you would know the difference between PROPHECY and instruction and would not misinterpret scripture.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/17


We must be leery of those who say they teach themselves,

Listen to Peter's Words:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
---john9346 on 1/10/17


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Bill,

You raise something very interesting in what you state there is a distinction between the office of teacher and just say another brother teaching another brother.

Thanks for pointing this out...
---john9346 on 1/10/17


Hello readers,

There is a common/tread connection of all cults/false religion that is they all started by 1 man or 1 woman saying that God alone spoke to them. They all had a position that they didn't need anyone to teach, they resisted the authority of the elders and pastors.
---john9346 on 1/10/17


strongaxe,


1. Can you state in your own words what is the definition of "Sola Scriptura?"


2. Strongaxe,apart from "Holy Scripture." how do people come to Jesus sir??

3. Did Jesus's Apostles teach anything that contraict him??
---john9346 on 1/10/17


Sola Scriptura is Scripture ALONE! Of myself, I am a member of no denomination. I do not subscribe to any denomination or inter-denomination. I have been Bible alone. Yet we are all just students. We do not have the advantage. We are not eye witness. Most of us do not know the Bible in Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. So we have disadvantages. Yet in so far as church teaching, I am more from the school of the idea of Bible ALONE. And of Bible translations, the more literal, the better, though dynamic equivalent is okay. I like the NAB,NIV, and KJV.
---mike4879 on 1/10/17


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The gifts are: Prophesy...that is REITERATING WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN. not adding something new.

Exortation, Again pointing out and reiterating what is already in scripture....not adding something new.

Teachers evangelists etc, ....pointing out and reiterating what is in scripture already...not adding something new. Not adding new doctrine, traditions or laws.

We are called to go on to maturity.

Everyone's works will one day be revealed as wood hay and stubble, or gold silver and precious stone. Since the so called early church fathers works have not yet been judged by God as PURE GOLD, they have NO HOLD over anyone. However the words of the Apostles and Prophets ONLY ARE GOD authority on earth.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/17


Within the BOC are members of one another, given Gifts each different to minister to one another using the WORD of God, not mans works,words or additional doctrines not found in scripture. We do not lord it over one another as no office is above the least in the Body of Christ. We take our direction from the LORD Jesus Christ Himself who is HEAD OF THE BODY even today as we speak. We are a living breathing organism here on earth who praise and worship is to God alone through Jesus Christ, led by the Holy Spirit. We are the very best BEREANS on earth today, who used scripture ALONE to see if what Paul was saying was true.

We also know God did not give any so called church fathers any AUTHORITY to rewrite or hammer out our faith.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/17


Strongaxe,

Can you state in your own words what is the definition of "Sola Scriptura?"
---john9346 on 1/9/17


When we read Eph 4:11-13, Paul lets us know that God has placed teachers to teach us and not for us to depend on ourselves for instruction:

11 And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers,

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:11-13
---john9346 on 1/9/17


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"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." (Colossians 3:16)

To me, this means all of us with God are able to teach each other. Jesus in each of us makes us able to teach.
---Bill on 1/10/17


The Word of God is living and Powerful and stronger than a two edge sword.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour.

Within the BOC are those whom are given Gifts for the work of the ministry until we all grow into the fulness and stature of Christ, so that we aren't tossed and turned by every WIND OF DOCTRINE that comes along. Scripture is complete with all one needs, THEN and NOW.
The sign of a cult are those who want to ADD to scripture, telling you you ALSO need to read this or that. WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/17


strongaxe states, "However, Jesus said "Nobody comes to the father except by me". He did NOT say "except by the things my apostles will write about me a few decades hence"."

Strongaxe, how do people come to Jesus sir?? Also, did Jesus apostles teach anything that contradicted Jesus.

Also, can you proove to us all here when did

Sir,
---john9346 on 1/9/17


By the Word of God. That is how He speaks to us.

---Luke on 9/29/16
---john9346 on 1/9/17


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john9346:

You wrote: So, think about it, Jesus said he is the way so is he going to say "I am the way." but then say Buddha, Muhammad is the way??

I never said anything about Buddha or Mohammed. However, Jesus said "Nobody comes to the father except by me". He did NOT say "except by the things my apostles will write about me a few decades hence". He did not qualify writings into groups (inspired and uninspired) and then give us a formula so we could know which is which.
---StrongAxe on 1/9/17


Scripture teaches scripture. Please look up every verse that has to do with DOCTRINE, and see what each verse says. The ONLY doctrine we need to be concerned with is the Doctrine of Christ. All these other man made doctrines are what Satan would love to get you so focused on you FORGET YOUR FIRST LOVE, and find you are not abiding IN CHRIST.

Ephesians 4:21

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is IN JESUS:. Please know what IN JESUS means.

2 John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Why do some say Jesus doesn't teach His Own?
---kathr4453 on 1/9/17


strongaxe said, "Between "scripture says X" and "it never says X", the burden of proof is on those who claim it does - by showing chapter and verse. It's easier than quoting thousands of verses that don't."

Sir, good point/question you raise remember what I said the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura enables us to understand the author and origin of the "Scripture."

So, think about it, Jesus said he is the way so is he going to say "I am the way." but then say Buddha, Muhammad is the way??
You see, what I am saying is the "Scriptures." reflect the author and source of them...

---john9346 on 1/9/17


strongaxe states, "2 Ti 3:17 says THAT man may be perfect. It doesn't say it can do it ALONE."

I agree with you in the since if it is apart from the means meaning the means God has given to us for the "Scriptures." to make us complete. The word perfect in Greek means complete.

you see if you read vs 14-15 Paul had in mind of what you just said, "You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


---john9346 on 1/9/17


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strongaxe you said, "If all doctrines are established by scripture alone, Sola Scriptura is such a doctrine, why would you NEED the approval of any outside authorities."

Sir, Good question, Sola Scriptura is a doctrine that enables us to understand the "Scripture." relative to the author, and the origin just like the Doctrine of thetrinity." which enables us to understand God in his essence and substance.
---john9346 on 1/9/17


I really appreciate the point that was in referencing the following verses:

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Rom 10:14-15.

Good point jerry.
---john9346 on 1/9/17


"Does it teach that no one needs anyone to teach them??" No.

The Holy Spirit teaches the believer. Jesus said "the Comforter, is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance. The anointing which [the believer has] received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things,.." No one is as qualified, and certainly not more qualified. It is simply for us, as individuals, to share what we have been taught, to be received or dismissed. There's a difference between being taught the gospel, and hearing the gospel, and how will the unbeliever hear without a preacher?
---josef on 1/9/17


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