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Disgusted By A Church

Are you ever disgusted by something you see at church? What are somethings you have seen at church or at church and Christian gatherings that have made you disgusted?

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 ---mike4879 on 1/12/17
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The WORD was made flesh, who died on a cross for you and me. The Holy Spirit did not die for your sin, the MAN Christ Jesus did. And because His perfect sinless sacrifice was accepted by the Father, God raised Jesus from the dead and set Him at His right hand. And those who are IN CHRIST, are also seated with Christ in heavenly places IN CHRIST, that did not happen until Jesus rose from the dead.

The Gospel we are to preach is CHRIST CRUCIFIED.....there is no such thing as the Gospel of the Trinity. Or even the preaching of the Trinity. But because John REJECTS the preaching of the Cross, the Trinity is ALL he has to hold on to...that will NEVER give him entry into heaven.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/17


John, I will not PAY ATTENTION to you. I will however pay attention to scripture. You are using double talk, and confusing......Satan is the author of confusion, not God. I will take my instruction from scripture ALONE John, and scripture does not address a doctrine addressing the Trinity. Not in the OT or the New.

Scripture addresses the deity of Jesus Christ, that He is God, not a god, not an angel, not Satans brother.

Jesus did the will of the Father, became obedient unto death, even death of a cross, that GOD highly exalted Him.

John, you tear down, and not try to build, so I am making a decision to ignore you.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/17


Also John, when I posted re: "persons" THAT came from a site who teaches and believes in the Trinity. So what I find telling is that even those who believe in the Trinity say the word PERSONS is problematic in conveying the Trinity. So you are arguing against those who teach the Trinity. So GOTCHA!

I also never said I do not believe in the Trinity...I simply said I do not believe that ONLY YOU have it down 100%, when even those who believe in the Trinity say they do not and is still a mystery that cannot be clearly explained in HUMAN TERMS.

To say that no one can really KNOW the FATHER except they first understand the Trinity 100% is absolutely a lie from hell.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/17


Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I wonder what name John would call Isaiah for his statement here.

As I said John, you actually don't have it all pinned down in a neat little box.

But what this does say is JESUS CHRIST IS GOD.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/17


Kathr states, "John, Hidden with Christ in God, is not Trytheism....."

Ma'am, please pay attention,

You keep stating 3 Gods and 3 "Beings." this is, "Trytheism."

The "Trinity." is, "3 persons who makeup the 1 "Being of God." not 3 different "Beings."

Like I have told you when ever we dialog know the meaning and understand the "Belief." before attacking or disagreeing...
---john9346 on 2/1/17




Kath states, "It appears God 1, 2, and 3 are all in me at once all at times doing the exact thing at the same time....John 17 ...that we all may be one.////"

Again, this is Trytheism which is not the "Trinity.

---john9346 on 1/31/17

YET when I asked, WHO...which one, raised Jesus from the dead, John says God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.

ALL DOING THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME.... But because I use God #1#2and #3 all doing the same thing at the same time..somehow I'm a WHAT?

John, you just want to argue, possibly a personal assault on me because I criticized your Calvin beliefs also showing severe immaturity.

End of discussion.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/17


Kathr states, "It appears God 1, 2, and 3 are all in me at once all at times doing the exact thing at the same time....John 17 ...that we all may be one.////"

Again, this is Trytheism which is not the "Trinity." ///

John, Hidden with Christ in God, is not Trytheism.....its scripture. It's Colossians 3:1-4 backed up by John 17. YOU SAY people were born again in the OT.....showing you have issues regarding the Last Adam being that life giving spirit. YOU don't even follow correct doctrine concerning THE MAN Christ Jesus. The only name I have for you is, a "baby" still on milk, being bottle fed, and not able to REASON with his own intelligence.....just uses others words and labels.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Kathr states, "It appears God 1, 2, and 3 are all in me at once all at times doing the exact thing at the same time....John 17 ...that we all may be one.////"

Again, this is Trytheism which is not the "Trinity."

The Trinity is
In the being of God (essence) there exist Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are co equal, co eternal, and co existing, 3 distinct persons. The Father is not The Son, The Son is not The Father, and The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor is he the Son.
These 3 persons make up God not 3 different Gods, but only 1 true Living God.
---john9346 on 1/31/17


Kathr states, "John, you are contradicting yourself here. The SON did not raise the SON Jesus, unless you are saying Jesus is not the son or a Forth person. No scripture says Jesus raised himself."

Why don't we let theLord Jesus speak for himself,

John 2:

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them, and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

J
---john9346 on 1/31/17


It appears God 1, 2, and 3 are all in me at once all at times doing the exact thing at the same time....John 17 ...that we all may be one.////

I also said this John.....so for you to continue arguing is showing you are either stupid, or a TROUBLE MAKER TRYING TO DIVIDE . SOOO John, because of that I do not enjoy conversations with you because you are always combative. Never try to meet half way, and thinks he knows it all, has no respect for anyone and their personal faith that is between them and the Lord. STAY OUT OF MY BEDROOM JOHN. My relationship with the Lord ...to KNOW HIM, does not need a pervert peeping tom called "John the pervert", Taking pictures of one's intimacy with another and posting on the Internet.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17




definition of DIVERSITY:

the state of being diverse, variety.
a range of different things.
plural noun: diversities
"newspapers were obliged to allow a diversity of views to be printed" mixed, mixture

antonyms: meaning the complete opposite is uniformity also meaning UNITY, or ONE.


So again John if I wanted to rant and rave and stalk you till the cows come home, I would take hour DIVERSITY comment here and hammer you and hammer you and hammer you as a heretic. I would rather say....you are simply ignorant, and make ignorant statements making matters even worse for people to understand the Godhead.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


kathr asked : "Who raised Jesus from the dead,"

John's answer: God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

---john9346 on 1/31/17

John, you are contradicting yourself here. The SON did not raise the SON Jesus, unless you are saying Jesus is not the son or a Forth person. No scripture says Jesus raised himself.

You are the one who sounds more confused, by using double talk to explain what you clearly prove you cannot explain. Different diversities could also mean different modes. So now what does that make you? An IDIOT?

A Totally lame answer John that did not qualify or teach anyone anything, if you are proving three distinctions.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Also John, there is a reason Jesus did not raise Himself from the dead. So because I know that answer and WHY, I know you are full of crap. Your comment actually deny the Trinity by your explanation. You should have just kept your mouth shut, rather that remind us that fools rush in ....Or has some peculiar understanding of the Trinity. So, if you really want to know WHY Jesus did not raise Himself, just ask nicely. But then again, you may use it as a weapon to assault rather than humble yourself admitting you don't know it all. I als believe there spins a verse where we are to leave people in their ignorance, because of their haughty attitude.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Kathr:

"2 Cor 3: 17 Now "the Lord" is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

Ma'am, Paul is stating this is the same person whether he is called God or Lord given to him.

"Who raised Jesus from the dead,"

God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

"John? why would God #1 be divided up in Romans 8:11, and not just say God,"

Because there are 3 persons who carry out a "Diversity of Functions."
---john9346 on 1/31/17


Kathr states, "Folks, I do t believe in moralism. I do not believe in three separate Gods."

And again, like on the other posting and again here on this posting:

3 Separate Beings is "Trytheism." this is not the "Trinity."

The trinity is These 3 persons make up God not 3 different Gods, but only 1 true Living God.

Not 3 "Modes.", but "3 Distinct Persons."

---john9346 on 1/31/17


Folks, I do t believe in moralism.-----///

Just to clarify I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MODALISM .. Is what the first sentence above is saying. The TYPO John may want to use to the gotcha ya mentality we see, is don't not "do t" which I was either saying don't or do not.

Sorry I have to take up space to clarify but there are folks here who don't read for the purpose of content, but only for the purpose of accusing.

The do t above is DON'T or DO NOT.

THANK YOU...AND if John wants to make an issue, "moralism" was never a word in question either...so you have NOTHING JOHN OR MARKV.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


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So what I was saying is, listen to people , and you might find out THEY ARE NOT MODALISTS, (Sp) and all these other labels you want to pin on them, because maybe their understanding is seeing things from a different position on the mountain than where you haven't claimbed, you in your rush to judgement John JUDGED WRONG, and look the FOOL for that rush to judgement.

I simply said the Godhead cannot be defined in human understanding or terms.....trying to bring God DOWN to YOUR level. I believe it is so much more COMPLICATED than your definitions, or mans definitions.

So get out of my face, and find a real heretic to stalk.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Years ago I attended a church where a group of people came in trying to take over the church, and bring in their psychobabbel, claiming everyone has some sore of mental issues only they could cure. So they would go around engaging people in conversations for the purpose of trying to snag them. A woman came up to me and asked me a simple question,and IMMEDIATELY her response was..." OH that is what is called " Mirror Imaging". AFTER they wrecked the church and divided people and life long friends, did the Lord finally not only run them out of the Church, but also Atlanta.

I have no patience for people wanting to LABEL anyone according to their AGENDA. CN would not allow me to post what my reply was back to this woman.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Folks, I do t believe in moralism. I do not believe in three separate Gods. Here are some scriptures that may explain that even I do not have it all pinned down and neatly put in a box.

Romans 8:11-13 VS Hebrews 13-20-23. Who raised Jesus from the dead, GOD #1 or the Spirit of Him AKA GOD #1 or is it God the Holy Spirit. #3. WHO EXACTLY John? why would God #1 be divided up in Romans 8:11, and not just say God, not the Spirit of HIM.....OR is this talking about God the Holy Spirit,#3 Even reading in the Living Bible, Romans 11 we have the Spirit of God AND the Holy Spirit as interchangeable. It doesn't say AND, adding another person to the verse.

There are many verses like this I BELIEVE, humans cannot fully comprehend....
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


2 Cor 3: 17 Now "the Lord" is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ok ANOTHER. Is there now the Spirit of the Lord # 4, or is the Spirit of the Lord perhaps Jesus who is #2 or is is God #3 or possibly #1?

You see folks, if John wants to disect God...so be it, if he wants to take time explaining if this verse is God 1, 2 or 3 so be it, I JUST WANT TO REJOICE IN IT.

It appears God 1, 2, and 3 are all in me at once all at times doing the exact thing at the same time....John 17 ...that we all may be one.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


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Luke,

amen brother lol it reminds me of Jesus's Words in Matt 7:1-4 :-)
---john9346 on 1/30/17


Hello readers,

Because I was accuse of misquoting and twisting Somebody's Words

I believe the following will state the truth:

Read below:

I do not believe in three separate beings, I believe the Lord our God is ONE GOD, in three manifestations of Himself, something WE as humans cannot completely understand but believe by faith.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/17
---john9346 on 1/30/17


Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son, and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.
---john9346 on 1/30/17


Nicole, this is true, Protestants also participated in this unchristian and unchristlike activity. Hopefully we have all grown past this mentality, ans see it for what it is....fanatical RELIGION.

What I don't like is someone twisting my words and then getting on a soap box lying about people accusing them of saying something they never said.....believing that if you don't adhear to the EXACT WORDS of someone's creed then you are the enemy that needs to be stalked from thread to thread and hounded like a criminal.

Even the apostles have and teach the same doctrine, but say it in different ways...not contradicting the truth.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/17


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MarkV, Christians do not try to engage other believers in conversations with the sole intent to TRICK them into saying something SO THAT the perp can THEN police their thoughts and words, stalking them to no end, and THEN cause division. Some in my church have different views on different issues.....THAT is between them and the Lord that the LORD alone will teach and correct according to HIS WILL and timing....not John's or yours or mine. Some plant some water, but it is GOD who brings the increase in knowledge.. John wants to CHOP....KILL AND MURDER, because someone may understand something even slightly different than he does. He is not anyone's SUPERIOR. And should look to his own relationship with the Lord, not everyone else's.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/17


as the unanimous consensus and exposition of our Christian faith, particularly against the false worship, idolatry, and superstition of the papacy and against other sects, and as the symbol of our time, the first and unaltered Augsburg Confession, which was delivered to Emperor Charles V at Augsburg during the great Diet in the year 1530 ...[10]

Markv, just a reminder of John's creeds etc, that he upholds and endorses, HE HAS taken an oath against the RCC.

Please think before speaking MarkV. I said John's ACTIONS are like the RCC who burned people at the stake because they would not kneel and bow to RCC doctrine. CHRISTIANS DO NOT AGAIN DO NOT act in this way. Please take a moment to actually UNDERSTAND what someone is saying.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/17


//That is strictly an RCC mentality where they burned people at the stake.....---kathr4453on 1/30/17

Not true.

Protestants are known for burning people esp WOMEN at the stake more than any other group.

Ask any Secularist. They will tell you Protestants.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/30/17


Kathr, here you complain about John and say, dishonest people, referring to John, and then say John is causing division in the church, and then turn around and you cause division in the church yourself when you say:

"People like John cause divisions in churches , which is a BAD THING. WHY! Because God never called John to be the TRINITY POLICE. That is strictly an RCC mentality where they burned people at the stake...." with your answer here you are cutting down the RCC, another church, of burning people at the stake.
That is pretty hypercritical.
---Luke on 1/30/17


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Especially when disagreements start when someone says you said something that was never said....like manifestitations and modes. John has accused me of this when I have NEVER USED THOSE WORDS in discussing the God head.

Dishonest People intentionally make up lies in order to create division, which is actually from Satan not God.

If perhaps John did read what I have written, he would see that even in his faulty understanding of trying to inrpterpret my words I STILL never said the words manifestitations/modes.

People like John cause divisions in churches , which is a BAD THING. WHY! Because God never called John to be the TRINITY POLICE. That is strictly an RCC mentality where they burned people at the stake.....
---kathr4453 on 1/30/17


The thing that discusses me the most is to see Christian's fighting in church, and while it's fine to not to agree, it's not fine to be dis-agreeable. The only person to benefit from this is Satan.
---WIVV on 1/27/17

There are doctrines that we must "Disagree Over." even disfellowship unless repentances is shown...

Not sure why people think all division and disagreement is wrong its not evne God appoints it...


---john9346 on 1/29/17


The thing that discusses me the most is to see Christian's fighting in church, and while it's fine to not to agree, it's not fine to be dis-agreeable. The only person to benefit from this is Satan.
---WIVV on 1/27/17


Mike,

If God placed me there then yes.

We all must remember our lives are not our own but "Christ."

The Early Christians went through so much more and yet they remain faithful...

I agree, there are reasons that can prohibit, but we must still obey Christ because he will give the grace to his own to follow him including attending church.

Peace,

John
---john9346 on 1/27/17


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At least through the winter.

John9346, I do not know how close to a church you live, but here it is winter and freezing cold with temperatures way below zero and cars won't start and there is not a church near by. If the car doesn't start, I don't go anywhere. I only pass the time here (frequenting this site) while I am hibernating through the cold. Of neglecting the assembly, are our bodies not temples? Should not God be in each one of us? Yes, through these cold months, I have passed hours on here. I wish I lived in a comfortable climate and in a town of worth. But I am not. I am not motivated by the cold. I will rather read my Bible at home. You want to set an example for me to follow, move to Siberia and drive 50 miles to church.
---mike4879 on 1/26/17


Mike4879:

"John 9346,

"Are you saying THE FELLOWSHIP OF SAINTS CANNOT EXIST ON THE INTERNET?"

Sir, Do you have in mind a cite such as this to substitute being a church for you??

Sir, 1 Cor 7 is addressing marriage not going or leaving a church.

Again,do you have in mind for this cite to be your church to fulfill to obey Heb 10:25??
---john9346 on 1/26/17


Kathr I don't know why my response wasn't posted, maybe my allotment was depleted with those duplicated post:o) Whatever the reason your post represents well my thoughts concerning this. Thank you, I appreciate it.
---Josef on 1/26/17


"Scripture disagrees with you. How then will Jesus, our high priest, present your tithe to the Father to worship Him on your behalf?---aservant on 1/24/17

There is no scripture requiring a tithe from the body of christ, nor is there a scripture stating that Jesus worships the Father with tithes from us.
---Josef on 1/24/17
NOR does scripture teach Jesus worships The Father ON OUR BEHALF. Because we are saved and can come to God through Jesus Christ, a NEW and LIVING way, coming ourselves BOLDLY WITH CONFIDENCE to the throne of Grace, we can worship and pray directly to the Father in Jesus Name. I don't ask Jesus to ask the Father. We worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

Aservant, What religion are you? Mormon perhaps?
---kathr4453 on 1/26/17


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John 9346,

Are you saying THE FELLOWSHIP OF SAINTS CANNOT EXIST ON THE INTERNET?

Then why does this site exist?

Then surely I am not obeying HEBREWS 10:25. I am obeying 1 Corinthians 7:15.
---mike4879 on 1/26/17


MMike4879,

Heb 10:25 is a Physical Place that believers are commanded to be apart of.

If you attend Internet Church, then explain how are you obeying Heb 13:17??
---john9346 on 1/25/17


Your attempts at condensation and condemnation aside. Please repost . . . I missed where scripture . . . Jesus worshiped the Father with our tithes. . . I will confidently stand before Him.
---Josef on 1/25/17


Not condensing or condemning, just noting. Jesus worshiping the Father with our tithes is concluded from reason:

OT priests were given the offerings to present to God and worship Him on behalf of the offeror. Jesus is our High Priest - Heb 3:1, 4:14, takes our tithes, presents them to God and worships Him on behalf of the offeror.

Most Christians, sinners will stand before Jesus in fear.

My 3 comments re tithes are further down the blog page, displaying color and bolds.
---aservant on 1/25/17


I have no idea why the post and correction containing this line, Your attempts at condescension and condemnation aside, was posted twice. Usually I can't make two post in a row to the same blog:o) This was not intentional. I did not mean to take up four spaces, just FYI.
---Josef on 1/25/17


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"---Josef on 1/24/17

I have posted the Scripture regarding tithing, which is easy for a guy like you to understand.

You are choosing to ignore it. You will never be able to deny to my Master that you were not informed.
---aservant on 1/25/17"


Your attempts at condensation and condemnation aside. Please repost the scripture reference, obviously I missed where scripture states that Jesus worshiped the Father with our tithes. P.S. by Father's grace I will confidently stand before Him.
---Josef on 1/25/17


"---Josef on 1/24/17

I have posted the Scripture regarding tithing, which is easy for a guy like you to understand.

You are choosing to ignore it. You will never be able to deny to my Master that you were not informed.
---aservant on 1/25/17"


Your attempts at condescension and condemnation aside. Please repost the scripture reference, obviously I missed where scripture states that Jesus worshiped the Father with our tithes. P.S. by Father's grace I will confidently stand before Him.
---Josef on 1/25/17


"---Josef on 1/24/17

I have posted the Scripture regarding tithing, which is easy for a guy like you to understand.

You are choosing to ignore it. You will never be able to deny to my Master that you were not informed.
---aservant on 1/25/17"


Your attempts at condensation and condemnation aside. Please repost the scripture reference, obviously I missed where scripture states that Jesus worshiped the Father with our tithes. P.S. by Father's grace I will confidently stand before Him.
---Josef on 1/25/17


"---Josef on 1/24/17

I have posted the Scripture regarding tithing, which is easy for a guy like you to understand.

You are choosing to ignore it. You will never be able to deny to my Master that you were not informed.
---aservant on 1/25/17"

Your attempts at condescension and condemnation aside. Please repost the scripture reference, obviously I missed where scripture states that Jesus worshiped the Father with our tithes. P.S. by Father's grace I will confidently stand before Him.
---Josef on 1/25/17


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John9346,

Yes, we are not to forsake the assembly, but this is the age of the internet, is this not a form of fellowship? "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." We can enjoy our church divisions right on here. TRUE, Romans 16:17, Paul writes of people causing divisions and keep away. I already know there are people I want nothing to do with and there are people who want nothing to do with me. We are called to peace and I live in the sticks. Why drive miles to that? My children and I can read the Bible at home and enjoy greater peace.
---mike4879 on 1/25/17


---Josef on 1/24/17

I have posted the Scripture regarding tithing, which is easy for a guy like you to understand.

You are choosing to ignore it. You will never be able to deny to my Master that you were not informed.
---aservant on 1/25/17


"Scripture disagrees with you. How then will Jesus, our high priest, present your tithe to the Father to worship Him on your behalf?---aservant on 1/24/17

There is no scripture requiring a tithe from the body of christ, nor is there a scripture stating that Jesus worships the Father with tithes from us.
---Josef on 1/24/17


The best way to avoid them is not to go to church.
---mike4879 on 1/24/17

Sir, Scripture commands Christians to go to church:

Heb 10:24-25:

24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Also, see, Heb 13:17.


---john9346 on 1/24/17


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No tithe is expected by the LORD.---Josef on 1/23/17

Heb 7:8 And here men who die receive tithes, but there he (Jesus - High Priest) receives (present tense) them . . .

Num 18:23 But the Levite, he shall perform the service . . . and they shall bear their iniquity: it is an everlasting statute throughout your generations . .
Num 18:24 for I have given for an inheritance to the Levites the tithes . . . which they offer . . . to Jehovah, . . .

Scripture disagrees with you. How then will Jesus, our high priest, present your tithe to the Father to worship Him on your behalf?
---aservant on 1/24/17


you don't hear Paul teaching that he should get 10% of everyone's income. WHY! Because Paul knew the difference between law and grace. Paul did not even preach tithing...but giving from ones heart ---kathr4453 on 1/22/17

Tithing started before the Law, when Abram gave tithes (a tenth) to Melchizedek of all he acquired from war - Gen 14:20.

Jacob gave a tenth of all God gave him - Gen 28:22.

God seems to give His people a heart to do His bidding
. Spirit filled people are glad to give a tenth AND an offering, because they know that God is faithful to remember their sacrifices of valuables to Him, as a token of their reverence and esteem of Him.
---aservant on 1/23/17


In Jesus, our sacrifice is praise, and our offering to the Father is thanksgiving, "that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name," continually. Refs. Psa 50:14>Jer 33:11>Heb 13:15
No tithe is expected by the LORD. Let every man give as he decides to give, not as a response to pressure, for Father loves those who gives cheerfully.
---Josef on 1/23/17


John9346,

The best way to avoid them is not to go to church.
---mike4879 on 1/24/17


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When one goes to church. One should be looking to hear God's Word. Our mindset should not be in a negative mode. We should not be looking for things that are not pertaining to the word of God.

Besides. What you think might be disgusting someone else might see it in a different way.
Maybe the disgust is in your mind. I say this in a respectful manner.
Check yourself.
---Beverly on 1/24/17


Tithing is still expected here in NT times. Tithes are the salary of Church workers in the flesh, but they are more importantly spiritual sacrifices used by Jesus to worship God on your behalf.

Heb 7:8 And here men who die receive tithes, but there he (Jesus - High Priest) receives (present tense) them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

Now Jesus can't receive tithes that are not given, so He expects NT church workers to be paid, and He will worship the Father with their tithes and offerings before the workers are paid.

Misuses of tithes will be judged by the Lord.
---aservant on 1/23/17


Yes, divisions are pretty endless. I do not see that believers are much being led by the Spirit these days. Rather, we are creatures of habit. It would be TRULY NICE though if it were so. Everyone could use a good dose of the Holy Spirit day and night be it visions or dreams or what have you. Only the proof is in the pudding!
---mike4879 on 1/20/17

Yes, as long as there is "False Doctrines.", division will be endless...

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them." Rom 16:17
---john9346 on 1/23/17


John is correct, the churches duty is to teach the gospel to believers so that they can be equip as to making disciples of new believers so that they in turn can bring the gospel to those who are lost. In the time of Jesus Paul did not take money to preach the gospel, but he in turn accepted material things. Material compensation for the spiritual work he was doing. In 1 Cor. 9:14 tells us:
"Even so, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel" That refers to earning a living by preaching the gospel.
---Luke on 1/23/17


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The multi denominational Church is a prime example of this warning being ignored. If all Christians followed Gods Holy Spirit, would we have more than one denomination?
---David on 1/19/17



Some denominations develop do to customs, CulturalTraditions, and Ethnic Preference...

To God be praise for diversity and uniqueness...
---john9346 on 1/22/17


It is broad daylight, Monday through Friday, you are in spiritual need. You go to a church to solicit prayer. The doors are closed.
---mike4879 on 1/22/17


mike4879 states, "Church little meets the needs of people. How do they deserve a tithe?"

Sir, the church meets the greatest need of peole that is, "ProclaimingThe Gospel so that the loss sheep will hear and flee to the Shepherd the Lord Jesus Christ." This is the sole purpose of the church...
---john9346 on 1/22/17


GOOD POINT! Mariam led women in song, and the older women are to teach the younger women to love their husbands. Women are not to be over a man. But in the matter of evangelism, it is every believer's duty to witness for Christ. We are called to be fruitful. In this flip-flop, topsy-turvy world, things get turned around.
---mike4879 on 1/20/17


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amen Aservant,

If you noticed Miriam, led "Women in to worship." she did not lead "Men in to worship."

You see, Miriam understood her place as a woman.

Titus 2 says women are to teach other women not men.

So according to "Scripture." women can lead and teach women, but not in a mix congregation where there are men.
---john9346 on 1/20/17


I agree, churches are under-utilized, so why give them a tithe? ...for doing poor job in stewardship? Typically, churches are only open for a couple days a week, and then only for a couple hours. IS THAT STEWARDSHIP? Church little meets the needs of people. How do they deserve a tithe?
---mike4879 on 1/20/17


you don't hear Paul teaching that he should get 10% of everyone's income. WHY! Because Paul knew the difference between law and grace. Paul did not even preach tithing...but giving from ones heart.
In the OT, when the Promised land was divided among the Tribes, no land was given to the tribe of Levy, because they were priests unto God for the people of Israel offering sacrifices DAILY for the sins of the people. Since today, those who are saved have no "TAX FREE promise land" given them by God, nor are we a Theocracy, nor do we have Levites, Offering blood sacrifices day and night for the sins of the people, what's to support? Buildings, programs, baseball fields, etc. is where a lot of money goes today.
---kathr4453 on 1/19/17


financial cunning of members . . . ---Josef on 1/12/17

Num 18:21 "I am giving the Levites (church workers) one-tenth of every Israelite's income. This is in return for the work they do at the tent of meeting.

Num 18:23 Only the Levites will do the work at the tent of meeting. They will be responsible for their own sins. This is a permanent law for future generations. They will own no property as the other Israelites will.

Most churches never pay the faithful workers, stealing their tithe for church bills and leadership salaries, then wonder why they are so Spiritually impotent.
---aservant on 1/18/17


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I once attended a church. The pastor asked to borrow a Bible. Someone in the listening congregation than loaned the pastor a beautiful leather Bible. The pastor thanked him, then startled everyone by hurling the Bible down to the floor. I was glad it was not my my Bible. I don't think the owner of the Bible was to happy either. The pastor compared the Bible to having his head smashed against a railroad track repeatedly as a child by a boy he was fighting. Apparently, the Bible struck him that way.
---mike4879 on 1/18/17


Ex 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

1Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Cor 14:35 . . . for it is a shame for women to speak in the churchh.

1Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
---aservant on 1/17/17


When a pastor asks a woman to lead worship she is not usurping his authority. She is submitting to her pastor.
---KarenD on 1/13/17

Leading Public Worship is the job of a pastor leading worship is a position/act of authority.

The Holy Spirit assigned women their place in the church in 1 Tim 2:11-15, 1 Cor 14:34-35.

Men their place in 1 Tim 3:1-13
---john9346 on 1/15/17


I can get disgusted at how >

I can get drowsy or a little asleep during a sermon, when he is preaching very worthwhile things.

I can be eyeballing women, instead of loving and caring for everyone, and not only noticing nicer looking people.

I can be unforgiving and letting paranoid stuff get my mind's attention.

I can be self-righteously criticizing people.
---Bill on 1/14/17


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When a pastor asks a woman to lead worship she is not usurping his authority. She is submitting to her pastor.
---KarenD on 1/13/17


Once I was invited to a Halloween party. It was emphasized as being alternative to the world. First thing to greet me was Dracula in full attire and dead white skin with blood red dripping at the sides of mouth. I had the impression this gathering was to get away from that. That we were to HAVE FUN away from all that. I had no fun. I was bothered by the costumes. It was supposed to be a holy church and there were Devils, Witches and Vampires. Then we were invited to the auditorium to see a movie the Christians had made. It was chainsaw murder. This was christian? I was displeased. I had no enjoyment at the gathering. I was disturbed from the moment I entered to the moment I left and through out my walk home and whenever I think about it.
---mike4879 on 1/14/17


John didn't say women can't lead worship services.

He is answering the question asking what has disgusted him that he has seen in a Church.

He doesn't believe women should lead worship services.

His beliefs doesn't stop women from leading worship services.

---Nicole_Lacey on 1/13/17


People dressed like they are going to the lake when they are in church. People who are put on the stage wearing shorts and skimpy clothes.
---KarenD on 1/13/17


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John9346...Where is the scripture that says a woman cannot lead worship?
---KarenD on 1/13/17
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

1 Tim 2:11-12.
---john9346 on 1/13/17


John9346...Where is the scripture that says a woman cannot lead worship?
---KarenD on 1/13/17


Many years ago at my grandparent's church they would call out everyone's donation before the service finished.

This was to give false glory to those who gave a lot, and shame to those who gave a little.

I believe that is the main reason members STOPPED going to that church and now it is only has 5 members or less every Sunday today.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/13/17


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