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Salvation Greater Than Peter

Many people think they are saved, because they believe Jesus is the Son of God. But if Peter denied Jesus 3 times, after being with Him and seeing his many miracles, how did they come to have a faith greater than Peters?

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David grace requires nothing from us---Joseph

Joseph
Now I'm confused by your belief.
Paul taught we are saved by Grace through faith, and you are saying Grace does not come through faith. Where does this teaching come from in the Bible?
---David on 2/19/17


In the Gospel,according to the Mystery..... It was hidden until Jesus rose from the dead--Kathryn

Kathryn
If you believe the Salvation teachings were a mystery taught only after Christs death and resurrection, why do you believe Paul put so much emphasis on the Gospel of Christ?

(Romans 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
---David on 2/19/17


GRACE
By Kathr4453. 1984

Your Mercy so graceous
You spend it on me,
Oh What is this Love
You want me to see?

It has no Conditions
Of which on my part,
I must work to earn it
ITs GRACE you impart.

All fear leaves this love,
A peace now does land,
My heart fixed on Jesus
I REST in your hand.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/17


And yes David, obedience of FAITH is a life long way of life under Grace.

Our sanctification is also BY FAITH. 2 Peter 1.... We become partakers of His divine nature through FAITH IN HIS PROMISES. after Abraham was imputed righteousness, his faith was tested. And we see Abraham OBEYED Gods voice. James is about THAT part of our life. Not our initial salvation, but life after we are saved.

We are still flesh and spirit. And we still often fail,in the flesh, because we are acting disobedient and not walking in the spirit.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/17


"doesn't obedience then become a requirement to Grace?"
David grace requires nothing from us. Grace is the unmerited favor of the Father. His gift of reconciliation through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus that paid the penalty of sin so that man might be brought back into agreement with Himself. His divine influence upon the heart -focus- of man, that brings him into the condition & state of mind that allows for that place within himself to be opened to embracing & exercising His faith to rely on, depend upon, trust in, acknowledge & confess Jesus as LORD & Savior. The obedience of love is of Him, our love for each other is a gift, and every good, and perfect gift, is from above.
---joseph on 2/18/17




David, We are saved because Jesus Christ went to the cross and the JUDGEMENT AND WRATH of God towards sin Jesus took in our place. We still must individually accept this. WHOSOEVER, TO AS MANY AS...a Graceous act God did for sinners. So again even that Graceousness is absolutely centered in the cross.

Many might think because they love, that they are obedient to God. But the OBEDIENCE of Faith is clearly stated in Romans 16:25-27. In the Gospel,according to the Mystery, which is Christ IN YOU. That only came to be AFTER Jesus died and rose again. It was hidden until Jesus rose from the dead. Colossians 1:24-27
This is the Gospel of my salvation. This is what is called the Gospel of Grace AKA The Gospel according to the Mystery.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


...but to say that our adoption /choseness comes AFTER we have grown in Grace...Kathryn

Kathryn
I understand your reluctance to accept what I'm saying, because we have different definitions of Grace. Our definitions are different, because your doctrine is founded on Paul's letters, and mine on the Gospel of Christ.

Could you give me your definition of Grace, Grace as you see it?
---David on 2/18/17


Read Galatians 2:20 and verse 21 together, scripture teaching scripture that GRACE in the NT is the cross.
--Kathryn


Kathryn
Scripture teaching scripture, but does your interpretation of Grace have any foundation in the Gospel of Christ?

I use the foundation of (John 14:23) to bring a greater understanding of (Galatians 2:20) "If a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
When does Jesus say he and his Father will come to live in us?
Is it before or after, we keep his words?
If after, doesn't obedience then become a requirement to Grace?
---David on 2/18/17


And we must grow in Gods Grace, if we hope to be chosen/ adopted by God. David////

David, I disagree .

I am chosen, adopted if that is your definition of chosen-adopted. I have no issue with those being put together, but to say that our adoption /choseness comes AFTER we have grown in Grace, which again, my growth comes after I'm saved via the finished works of Christ now at work in me, as I am complete in Him the moment I believe and receive Christ so says scripture. You make it sound like we have to earn our salvation? No one can earn one thing from God Faith is obedience to the Known will of God. Imputed righteousness AKA, JUSTIFICATION Is instant. Sanctification takes a lifetime And still can't be earned.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


David, the Gospel is to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. ROmans 10:9-10. So more is expected of us today than those in the OT who,only put faith in a promise far off. They could not be crucified with Christ and raised a new creature either.

When I. Read Galatians 2:20 and verse 21 together, scripture teaching scripture that GRACE in the NT is the cross. the whole of Galatians is Grace vs LAW and GRACE in Galatians is centered right in the Cross. Today we are saved by the finished works of Christ. And that finished work expects more than the OT did. To only preach 1/2 a gospel is no gospel at all.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/17




Kathryn
Many people, both Jew and Gentile, were being saved before Paul was an apostle. But there was only one salvation doctrine during this time.

This is why I challenge folks to show me their doctrine, using the Gospel of Christ. For it was the only teaching available when these folks were being saved.

When taking the challenge, those who find they can not show me their doctrine, using the Gospel of Christ, soon discover they are not teaching the doctrine Christ taught.

There is no value in arguing this point, for they will not take my word for it. So I leave them to discover it for themselves.
---David on 2/17/17


David, I agree, Jesus saves, and it is the Father's grace that brings us to salvation. Thank you for sharing your understanding of grace.
---joseph on 2/17/17


Please share your understanding of grace as taught by Jesus, and the scriptural basis of that understanding.--Joseph

Joseph
We are saved by Grace, but Grace doesn't save us. God does!
Folks seem to not know, or just forget this fact. Grace is not God, Grace is the favor of God. And we must grow in Gods Grace, if we hope to be chosen/ adopted by God.

Throughout the Lords Gospel he tells us how we can gain Gods favor.
There are many ways we are told we can do this. Repentance, forgiveness, faith, acts of love.....and the list goes on and on.

These are the commandments of Jesus Christ. And God will find favor in those who make Jesus their Lord, by keeping the Lords commandments. (John 14).
---David on 2/17/17


Your welcome Joseph. Just agree that when out faith is tested, as Christians we don't always get it right, but even through our failures we learn and grow from our mistakes. Some think we lose our salvation when we fail.....NO NO NO. We keep getting the test David until we pass it.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/17


"I don't say this to be insulting nor to argue, I'm stating a helpful fact which may just save your Life" Thank you David, I know that you were not being insulting, and I was not insulted. I just misunderstood your post as well, my apologies. Please share your understanding of grace as taught by Jesus, and the scriptural basis of that understanding. Perhaps I have missed it.

P.S. I do understand that Paul is not the author of grace, he, like John and Peter, simple taught the grace of God as they understood it.
---joseph on 2/16/17


I misunderstood you Kat. Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself.
---joseph on 2/16/17


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Where do you think John and Peter received the doctrine of grace if not from Jesus?

Joseph
They received it directly from Jesus Christ, as we should all be able to see in the Gospel of Christ. But as I said, folks who don't believe in the version taught by Christ, will not except it. I don't say this to be insulting nor to argue, I'm stating a helpful fact which may just save your Life.

(John 1:17) says Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ, not Grace came by Paul and Truth came by Jesus Christ. The verse was written many years after the death of Christ, if Paul was the Author of Grace, don't you think this important fact would have been mentioned?
---David on 2/16/17


Joseph, David seemed to think I was saying there were two ways to be saved????.

Our spiritual gifts are used, not by our power, or even our intelligence, but through Jesus Christ, who is the head, where all wisdom and knowledge flow. And because of that, all that we have and know AFTER WE ARE SAVED is by HIS GRACE. But yes, as far as faith, God made SO SIMPLE. believing God and what He said and acting upon that is faith. So yes, every man , sinner or saint has the ability to exercise faith. BUT the Faith, exercising ones spiritual gift or faith as we mature in sanctification which is living by the faith of Him. Gal 2:20. . That is why we are not to think of ourselves ( the saved) more highly than we ought.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

When one believes in the Gospel, one is not Previously crucified with Christ and living by the faith of the only begotten Son, AT THAT TIME. Abraham shows two different acts of faith, not two different ways of salvation. He wasn't imputed righteousness because he sacrificed Isaac, Abraham was already saved and imputed righteousness long long before that, before Isaac was ever born. God TESTED his faith. A different purpose in faith. And as we grow, the tests get harder as our faith grows. Tests are for the saved.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


David, John begins, unlike the other three Gospels , JESUS came full of Grace and Truth. So I see the Gospel of John the beginning of the teachings of Grace.

Paul laid the foundation of GRACE that Jesus first revealed in John 17. So the MYSTERY that Jesus first revealed in John 17 is more fully revealed to Paul, where he includes the Gentiles, and that the MYSTERY is Christ in you, making ONE NEW MAN. Not one new Jew. Neither Jew or Gentile, something never heard of before.

Whosoever will is to ALL the world, both JEW and Gentile, where as in the other Gospels, it says To the JEW only., and don't go to the Gentiles.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


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"David, I think the problem I see here is the verse in Romans 12 is talking to those already saved" Kat although this is not addressed to me, I read it as a response to my post. The verses says every man. It uses the Greek word "hekastos" which is defined every where in the N.T. as either everyman, everyone, or each one. This same word is used in Luke 2:3 and Rom 2:6, and I am sure that you know that those verses are not just referring to believers. However, If paul happen to be speaking only to believer at that time, he admonished them not to think of themselves more highly than they should. Why? Because "God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
---joseph on 2/15/17


When Abraham believed God and God imputed it to Abraham as righteousness, it had nothing to do with Abraham implement his spiritual gift. Kat how do you think Abraham came to believe God? Do you honestly believe he came to implement that belief without the Father's influence? How do you read this verse? What is your understanding? "For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake. (NKJV,NIV) For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, (ESV) I only quoted a couple of versions, however they all read the same. I believe that Abraham was also given to believe the Fathers promises for Christ sake.
---joseph on 2/15/17


"Jesus never mentioned the word "Grace" in the Gospel, not once!"
David where do you think John and Peter received the doctrine of grace if not from Jesus?>John 1:14-17>1Pe 5:5,5:10>2Pet 1:2>3:18 for example.
---joseph on 2/15/17


Interestingly not once is the word GRACE even spoken.------kathr4453

Kathryn
More interesting, is the fact, Jesus never mentioned the word "Grace" in the Gospel, not once! And yet, People believe their doctrines are founded on the "Rock", the Gospel of Christ.

Jesus taught Grace in the Gospel, though folks don't see it, because it doesn't match their version. I show folks this fact by challenging them to prove me wrong, by showing me where Jesus taught their version of "Grace", in the Gospel. If it's the Truth, wouldn't their version be in the Gospel, somewhere?

The teachings of Paul, were meant to aid folks in the building of the house, it was not designed to be their foundation.
---David on 2/15/17


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David, I think the problem I see here is the verse in Romans 12 is talking to those already saved , so then the faith given here is for OUR using the Gifts of the Spirit. All one has to do is read the entirety of Romans 12. We are not saved by our spiritual Gift. But that GIFT is in the Power of the Holy Spirit.

When Abraham believed God and God imputed it to Abraham as righteousness, it had nothing to do with Abraham implement his spiritual gift. And righteousness is not imputed to,us each and every time we use our spiritual Gify BY FAITH. Imputed righteousness is only imputed ONCE.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


If it is a gift from God, wouldn't you expect it to be perfect too?--David
As I've said, God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.(KJV) Rom 12:3 I prefer the KJV because I believe everyone is given the same measure. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17 I believe the verse should read faith grows by understanding, and understanding by the word of God. The Greek akoe translated hearing is from the root akouo that can be defined understand. To me the words grows and understanding conveys the verse better, because not every one who gives audience believes the message. One can not put into practice, that which is not understood. Faith without works, (implementation, the work of faith), is dead
---joseph on 2/14/17


Abram feared because at that time he didn't understand that it would be through a child literally born from his loins that the Father would fulfill His promise.--Joseph

Joseph
But you say faith comes from God. If our faith comes from God, it wouldn't emanate from us. It's would be a gift much like the Holy Spirit, who is perfect. If it is a gift from God, wouldn't you expect it to be perfect too?
---David on 2/14/17


I know there are those who believe that not only did Jesus die for our sin....leading to salvation, but that He had to do the believing for us too, they say is their definition of Grace. We have in Hebrews 11 all OT Saints where we see faith defined. Interestingly not once is the word GRACE even spoken. Abel became an heir of the righteousness that was by faith. Cain was given a second chance to obey and do what God has asked. So even then Faith came by hearing. The gospel, the very same one, was faith in the coming redeemer promised, first in Genesis 3:15. They looked forward , where we look back. So our faith is in the finished works of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/13/17


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David,I believe we are saved by Grace through faith. I believe in the NT Grace is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So this makes sense, we are saved by Jesus death and Resurrection. No one can argue that. So by grace, is first the FInished works of Christ.

So I am saved by my faith in believing Jesus died on a cross for my sin , and rose again for my justification. I also believe Jesus died for the ungodly...so no one has to be anything first.....just a sinner who knows they are a sinner in need of a savior. I cannot save myself. Only Jesus sacrifice on the cross can save me. I believe He died for me. AKA faith.
---kathr4453 on 2/13/17


The Father has given to every man, the measure of faith. However without his grace that faith is sensually based, determined by sensual perceptions of what was, is, or has been tangibly and successfully experienced. It is by His grace, as His divine influence upon the heart, that the unregenerate man exercised that faith in Him. Grace was absolutely indispensable and vital to understanding anything spiritually related before the indwelling of His Spirit.
Joseph But why did he fear? Abram feared because at that time he didn't understand that it would be through a child literally born from his loins that the Father would fulfill His promise. He didn't fully receive that understanding until it was made clear to him in Gen 15:1-6
---joseph on 2/13/17


The one given as one of the fruit of the spirit is only given AFTER one is saved.---kathr4453

Kathryn
It seems there are two different types of salvation. One comes from the Bible, and the other, from ones denomination.

Jesus taught obedience to God plays a role in our salvation, as I do.
What role does it play?
According to Christ in (John 14:21), obedience brings us into Gods favor. That favor known in Paul's epistles as Grace, the Grace by which we are saved.

How do you believe we receive Gods Grace? By believing Jesus is the Son of God, or through the manner Jesus taught in (John 14:21-25)?
---David on 2/13/17


David, From the beginning " the just shall live by faith". Abel did, and Cain did not. That was actually something they did or didn't INSTANTLY. No one was indwelt with Christ in them in the OT. We see Hebrews 11, OT the Just living by faith. That faith is clearly spelled out as something "they did" Noah moved with fear, Moses chose the sufferings of Christ rather than the riches of Egypt....and so on.

Also AFTER we are saved, we see FAITH again given as one of the fruit of the spirit...Galatians 5.

So we also need to discern FAITH from FAITH, and Faith TO Faith, and Faith for Faith, BY Faith, Through Faith etc. The one given as one of the fruit of the spirit is only given AFTER one is saved.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/17


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Comparing clay to clay is fruitless. Not everyone is Like Peter. For example John pointed out to him that "it was the Lord" who told them from the beach to drop the nets and they pulled up a great catch. (that should have been very familiar) What about the 70x7 admonition Or the fact that he was told 3 times "arise Peter kill and eat." What all this spells out to me is that Peter is God's 'Geico caveman.'

Even after leading the church from the beginning he was schooled by the 'new guy' Paul.

While Peter wasn't so sharp spiritually he had a BIG BIG heart and God can use that. The real test for "Many people," is what's in their heart and only God can measure that.
---Pharisee on 2/11/17


I too have upsets with computer, yet we are to regard it as improvement. I liked life more before computer.
---mike4879 on 2/12/17


In (Genesis 12:11-13) Abram acted in fear, not faith.--Joseph

Joseph
But why did he fear? His Fear was not a sign he had no faith in God, but it was a sign, which showed he had very little faith in Gods promise.
If he had, had the faith he did when he was asked to sacrifice Isaac, there would have been no fear. Agree?

It's also amazing what the finished works of Christ in us can do---kathr4453

Kathryn
I agree, but many believe those works are instantaneous, because of something they did (Baptism, Sinners Prayer, " I believe") and not what Christ has done in them.
---David on 2/12/17


I did not intend to include the second post to this blog on 2/11 concerning the law. It was simply research for a response I was preparing. The computer I am using frustrates me at times. At times it insensitive, non responsive, and at times its hyper sensitive, and responds to the slightest touch. Since I am not a person who is "computer savvy" I don't know for sure if it is the computer itself, the program that I'm using, or simply my technique in using it. Please disregard the post, it has nothing to do with any question that I've been asked here.
---joseph on 2/11/17


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David, concerning 1John 3:9, I accept it as written, not as a sign, but a fact.
"Whosoever is 'born of God', renewed and regenerated from above, does not commit 'sin' miss the mark of His calling, for His 'seed' God's Word remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1Jo 3:5>Rom 6:6,7
The believer knows that he can not sin because God's Word documents it. He believes it, and that Word remains in him as he presses on towards the high calling of God, In Christ. The believer is born of God, by the will of God. Jhn 1:13 and we know that whosoever is born of God sins not. For they are born again by the incorruptible word of God, which lives and abides for ever. 1Pe 1:23
---joseph on 2/11/17


For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. sin is not imputed when there is no law, For without the law sin [is] dead. the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For the strength of sin is the law. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law.
---joseph on 2/11/17


David, in reply to your question, ...after reading 1st and 2nd Peter, we can see first hand exactly what Joseph is saying. Peter's faith grew tremendously when he wrote those epistles. It's also amazing what the finished works of Christ in us can do, contrasted to before the cross. Having now the indwelling Holy Spirit makes all the difference in the world.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/17


David although faith is perfect, we are not, and if we have not yield ourselves to the Spirit of God, at times we will fail to apply it. Faith and fear are opposites sides of the same coin. Faith is based on the word, principles and promises of God. Fear is based on the external perception of the senses. Faith can not be exercised when fear is present. Father grants His faith and authorizes it use, however he does not dictate its use. Abram had just started his journey of faith. Faith did not fail him, he failed to implement it. As a result fear not faith guided his decision. Again, faith is perfected in us through a continuous application.
---joseph on 2/10/17


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"Joseph Would Abraham had feared for his life in (Genesis 12:11-13), if he had perfect faith in the promise God made to him in (Genesis 12:2-3)?" No.
"If his faith had been made perfect, wouldn't he have reasoned God couldn't keep his promise, if God allowed Pharaoh to kill him?" Yes.
"But he does use this reasoning in the promise God made to him about Isaac, in (Hebrews 11:17-19)." True.
Don't you believe Isaacs life was more important to Abraham, than his own?---David on 2/10/17" Yes.
In (Genesis 12:11-13) Abram acted in fear, not faith. In (Hebrews 11:17-19) Abraham acted in faith. Faith is perfected in us as it is implemented.
---joseph on 2/10/17


Abraham did have a laps in faith, and fathered a son with Hagar. Gods promise to Abraham still stood regardless of Abrahams lapse, as we see God still kept His Promise, and Isaac, the child of promise was born. God tests our faith so that we can PROVE His faithfulness. Our faith is not in ourselves, but in the promises of God. It's not some magic given to us. Gods very word is given to us, and we either believe God called faith, or we do not. Often times a promise will not come to fruition for many many years, and because of that, we might loose hope in something we believed God said. Hebrews 11 say those faithful in the OT died without receiving the promise, but saw them far off, and STILL regardless put their trust in God.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/17


What brought you to this conclusion David? As concerning "Abraham's faith....---Joseph

Joseph
Would Abraham had feared for his life in (Genesis 12:11-13), if he had perfect faith in the promise God made to him in (Genesis 12:2-3)?
If his faith had been made perfect, wouldn't he have reasoned God couldn't keep his promise, if God allowed Pharaoh to kill him?

But he does use this reasoning in the promise God made to him about Isaac, in (Hebrews 11:17-19). Don't you believe Isaacs life was more important to Abraham, than his own?
---David on 2/10/17


"Joseph If our faith comes from God, and God is perfect, wouldn't our faith also be perfect?" It is David. It is our understanding of its use that is imperfect.
The Father has given me to understand faith as a steadfast unwavering confidence in Him, His Word, and His principles for life. That confidence is not something that we muster up, it is something that He grants. It is referred to as 'Our faith' in that it is given for the believer to exercise. It grows as it recognized, acknowledged and practiced. That practice is meant to be continual, and it is in that continuous application that faith is perfected in us.
---joseph on 2/9/17


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"Though Abraham did have faith in God, his faith was not perfect in the beginning. Though it was made perfect at the end of his lifetime. Do you agree?" What brought you to this conclusion David? As concerning "Abraham's faith", scripture states that he exercised it steadfastly from the moment the Father told him that He had made him the father of many nations. Rom 4:16-22 And as far as I know, based on what is written, he never failed to exercise it. His willingness to implement that which he had been given is exemplified in his willingness to sacrifice his son at the Father request.
---joseph on 2/9/17


"If your faith is empowered of Him, why would "you" need to holdfast to that profession without wavering?" David faith is granted or authorized of the Father to be implemented, or put into practice by the believer through words and actions that correspond with our profession. The process is continuous, and without Him we can do no good thing, and to think that we can, is presumptuous.
---joseph on 2/9/17


David faith is granted or authorized of the Father to be implemented, or put into practice by the believer through words and actions that correspond with our profession.--Joseph

Joseph
If our faith comes from God, and God is perfect, wouldn't our faith also be perfect?

Paul used Abrahams faith as his example. Though Abraham did have faith in God, his faith was not perfect in the beginning. Though it was made perfect at the end of his lifetime.
Do you agree?
---David on 2/9/17


"If your faith is empowered of Him, why would "you" need to holdfast to that profession without wavering?" David faith is granted or authorized of the Father to be implemented, or put into practice by the believer through words and actions that correspond with our profession. The process is continuous, and without Him we can do no good thing.
---joseph on 2/8/17


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Hebrews 12:6-8

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

To as many as receive Him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. We are begotten sons through Jesus Christ. We are, those who are saved are SONS and heirs THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

Hebrews also shows that God deals with sons NOW. The ONLY thing we are waiting for is our NEW BODIES.
---kathr4453 on 2/8/17


And I shall be saved, future tense,(as in made whole). If I holdfast that profession without wavering, and endure or abide patiently in that belief), unto the end, and I know that I will because that profession and belief is empowered of Him.

Joseph
Thank you, very educational.
You say, If "I" holdfast to that profession (of faith) without wavering, and then say, it is empowered of "Him". If your faith is empowered of Him, why would "you" need to holdfast to that profession without wavering?
---David on 2/8/17


"Joseph If you are still waiting for the adoption, do you consider yourself saved?--David on 2/7/17 Yes. As a Believer I am saved, present tense,(as in delivered from the penalty of judgement, or saved from perishing). And I shall be saved, future tense,(as in made whole). If I holdfast that profession without wavering, and endure or abide patiently in that belief), unto the end, and I know that I will because that profession and belief is empowered of Him. Like I said earlier in this blog, while our salvation is assured, It will not be complete until the redemption of our bodies."
---joseph on 2/7/17


And having receive the down payment of His Spirit, I wait eagerly for the adoption, the redemption of my body.---Joseph

Joseph
If you are still waiting for the adoption, do you consider yourself saved?
---David on 2/7/17


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"what sign were you given which assures you of your adoption?---David on 2/6/17" David If there is a sign, it's a loving attitude. I believe that I am led by the Spirit of God. And the Spirit bears witness of through the attitude of Love that He present to the world through me, that I am a child of God, and an heir, a fellow heir with the Christ. And having receive the down payment of His Spirit, I wait eagerly for the adoption, the redemption of my body."
---joseph on 2/6/17


'No' and 'One' is not a compound word, their separate, separated by the comma.--Joseph

Joseph
Oh...don't I feel the fool.

When they come to understand and acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, they too will be adopted as sons.
---joseph


Joseph
Many disregard (John 3:9) as written in the KJV, as the sign of their adoption. If you don't except this as the sign, what sign were you given which assures you of your adoption?
---David on 2/6/17


"Joseph If no one abides in the house as a servant, wouldn't the passage say, "And the servant abideth not in the house: but the Son abideth ever"? David I did not say no-one abides as a servant . 'No' and 'One' is not a compound word, their separate, separated by the comma. Perhaps I should have followed 'no' with a period, to signify that it was the answer to "can we conclude both are followers of Jesus Christ?" I have no problem with your teaching. As a matter of fact, I can agree. When they come to understand and acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, they too will be adopted as sons.
---joseph on 2/4/17


No, one abides as a servant, obviously under the law....---Joseph

Joseph
If no one abides in the house as a servant, wouldn't the passage say, "And the servant abideth not in the house: but the Son abideth ever"?
(John 8:35) And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Joseph, I teach (John 8:35) along with Paul's teachings on adoption.
(Galatians 4:5) "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

I teach the servants in (John 8:34) are followers of Christ, those not born of God, still waiting for their adoption. Like a foster child is not a permanent family member, until they are adopted.
---David on 2/4/17


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Joseph since they both reside in the same house, can we conclude both are followers of Jesus Christ?. No, one abides as a servant, obviously under the law, self righteously thinking themselves to serve God in their own strength.
The other abides as a son, and follows Him with the understanding of their position of rest and liberty, in Him, as one under His authority and made free.
---joseph on 2/3/17


So one can conclude that being born of god and receiving His Spirit are synonymous.---joseph

Joseph
In (John 8:35) Jesus mentions a Servant and a Son, both residing in the same house. One is a temporary resident and one is a permanent resident.

In (John 8:34) Jesus tells us the servant is someone who sins, and
In (1 John 3:9), John tells us the Son is one who does not sin. These are distinguishing characteristics between the two.

Since they both reside in the same house, can we conclude both are followers of Jesus Christ?
---David on 2/3/17


Can you show me a passage in the Bible which causes you to believe being born of God, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, are one and the same?---David on 2/2/17 None specifically states this. However, Scripture does state that "Whosoever believes, (which I define as rely on, adhere to, and trust in Him), [which is of the Father>Phl 1:29], that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loves Him that begat loves Him also that is begotten of Him. Love is of God, and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God." 1Jo 5:1>1Jo 4:7 Again, Love is of God, and we receive Love as fruit of His Spirit. Gal 5:22 So one can conclude that being born of god and receiving His Spirit are synonymous.
---joseph on 2/2/17


I understood your question to address the requirements for receiving the Spirit? Act 2:1+4 documents the receipt of that Gift

Joseph
It does represent the receipt of the gift, but it doesn't address the requirements to receive the gift, as does (Acts 2:38).
Can you show me a passage in the Bible which causes you to believe being born of God, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, are one and the same?
---David on 2/2/17


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"I believe they repented and they were baptized."
You are of course welcome to you beliefs. However there's no mention of them doing either. I understood your question to address the requirements for receiving the Spirit? Act 2:1+4 documents the receipt of that Gift.
"If this is true, why did Paul baptize Gentiles?"
Baptism symbolically represents being buried in Christ, and being raised a new creature. However It had nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit, Act 10:47 or repentance, which was John's baptism. Act 19:4
Matthew 28:19 & 20 says nothing about repentance.
---joseph on 2/1/17


What's the difference between "Mental Assent" and "Scriptural Faith"?
---David on 2/1/17

Memorized words to a set of Doctrines, but having no faith in the doctrines or whom the doctrines represent...
---john9346 on 2/1/17


Peter was speaking at that time to "devout Jews"....Therefore Peter simply gave them something to do.--Joseph
If this is true, why did Paul baptize Gentiles?
And Peter told them to repent and be baptized, because this was the Lords instructions to him in (Matthew 28:19 & 20)

I'll ask you a question, what did the disciples have to do to receive His Spirit?---joseph
I believe they repented and they were baptized.

Mental Assent does not and can not save anyone---John
What's the difference between "Mental Assent" and "Scriptural Faith"?
---David on 2/1/17


Isn't Gods promise to everyone....if we repent and get baptized, we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?
David It is the goodness of the Father that leads to repentance, which is an empowered turn from darkness to light, from the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of His Son. In that kingdom there's only one faith, one baptism, and one Lord, in Christ. Peter was speaking at that time to "devout Jews" who were full with sorrow for what they had allowed to happen, religious people looking to themselves and expecting to have to do something to receive that which is, in all reality, a gift. Therefore Peter simply gave them something to do. I'll ask you a question, what did the disciples have to do to receive His Spirit?
---joseph on 1/31/17


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Yes. David scripture repeatedly states that they are saved (present tense) In Christ. Jesus has sealed them, and given them the down payment of His Spirit. ---joseph

Joseph
Isn't Gods promise to everyone in (Acts 2:38)? Where it says, if we repent and get baptized, we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?

If we are saved after receiving the Holy Spirit, and we must do something to receive this promise from God, can't we save ourselves, since God keeps his promises?
---David on 1/31/17


The bodily resurrection of Christ is fundamental for Christianity. No one can be a Christian without it (1 Cor 15:14).
Without resurrection his death would not mean anything (1 Cor 15:17).
Paul's gospel doesn't stop with our sins being put on Christ, it finishes with his righteousness being imputed to us (2 Cor 5:21).
Without Christs resurrection we are all dead.
Without resurrection we do not have any reason to worship Christ, preach Christ for salvation, declare righteousness in Christ, or eternal life through Christ.
It was Paul who said:
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
It is by that gospel of the resurrected Christ that we are saved.
---michael_e on 1/31/17


david ask, "John
Everyone who puts a manger in their yard at Christmas, believes Jesus is the Son of God. Are they saved?"

No sir, this is what you call "Mental Assent."

What John the apostle writing by the Holy Spirit is talking about is, "Scriptural Faith."

Mental Assent does not and can not save anyone...
---john9346 on 1/31/17


"Joseph But do you believe they saved, the moment they receive this gift of the Holy Spirit?---David on 1/31/17" Yes. David scripture repeatedly states that they are saved (present tense) In Christ. Jesus has sealed them, and given them the down payment of His Spirit. This suggest to me that while our salvation is assured, It will not be complete until the redemption of our bodies.
---joseph on 1/31/17


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This is what John the apostle writing by the Holy Spirit states, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...---john9346 on 1/30/17

John
Everyone who puts a manger in their yard at Christmas, believes Jesus is the Son of God. Are they saved?

David, when they receive the Gift of the Spirit, they receive the Gift of the faith that saves, as fruit of the Spirit.---joseph on 1/30/17

Joseph
But do you believe they saved, the moment they receive this gift of the Holy Spirit?
---David on 1/31/17


But when does someone receive this faith, which comes from the indwelling presence of God?
When they receive His indwelling presence:o)
"Is it when they receive the gift of he Holy Spirit, or do you believe it comes later?---David on 1/30/17"
David, when they receive the Gift of the Spirit, they receive the Gift of the faith that saves, as fruit of the Spirit.
---joseph on 1/30/17


Peter, at the time of his denial, was not blessed with that indwelling presence, and his faith was likely still based on his perceptions. ---joseph

Joseph
That's a real good explanation.
But when does someone receive this faith, which comes from the indwelling presence of God? Is it when they receive the gift of he Holy Spirit, or do you believe it comes later?
---David on 1/30/17


David states, "Many people think they are saved, because they believe Jesus is the Son of God."

This is what John the apostle writing by the Holy Spirit states, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."

David ask, "But if Peter denied Jesus 3 times, after being with Him and seeing his many miracles, how did they come to have a faith greater than Peters?"

Because the Lord Jesus Christ had not died, was not buried, and had not risen when Peter denied the Lord "3 Times."
---john9346 on 1/30/17


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Thank you Nicole, I'll study on it and let you know if I discover anything.
---David on 1/29/17


//could you explain what you see in the details you mention?---Davidon

If you read the whole Gospel of John you would see what seems to be a small insufficent word written into the sentence.

Actually the WHOLE Bible are filled with details that ties into Jesus one way or another.

If you start reading Peter's denial all the way to the end of the Book you can compare the actions.

Denial and Confirming Jesus around a specific fire.

I am sure the word 'charcoal' is there for a reason as well. I just don't know why.

I am passing these learned similarities to you from Biblical Scholars and the Fathers of the Church.

These Fathers of the Church have written these similarities centuries ago.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/29/17


Those little details are inserted by John for a reason.---Nicole_Lacey on 1/27/17

Nicole
Hmmm...interesting, could you explain what you see in the details you mention?
---David on 1/29/17


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