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What Is The Condition Of Church

What land is 2 Chronicles 7:14 referring to in today's world. And if there are those who have not turned from their wicked ways, how can they be believers, said to be " My People" saying this is the BOC, THE CHURCH?

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 ---kathr4453 on 2/11/17
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//Actually Nicole, you just contradicted yourself.//

Priceless!

You are bold, Kathr. Even when you are proven DEAD WRONG with Scripture you still can't admit it. WOW.

//You just showed by your last two posts you have no clue what you are talking about.//

You had plenty of space to show my contradictory posts if I did.

//I'm going to leave it there.//

Now that is a good idea.

//I see no matter what YOU LOVE arguing, even if it makes you look daft. That's on you.--kathr4453

Count all the headings sites with your blogs.

Don't worry, Ash Wednesday is this Wednesday. I might not be on CN until Easter.

You just might miss me.

See ya,

your Faithful Nemesis
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/27/17


Actually Nicole, you just contradicted yourself. You just showed by your last two posts you have no clue what you are talking about. I'm going to leave it there. I see no matter what YOU LOVE arguing, even if it makes you look daft. That's on you.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/17


//The sufferings of Christ we all share in as His Body, is not a curse or because of any wickedness within the Body that needs to be turned from.//

Who said it was?

Pay attention.

You claim the nation of Israel suffered as a nation but not the BOC.

//A Nation of people addressing the NATION OF ISRAEL...THAT LAND. Under the Law, when one sinned THEY ALL SUFFERED AS A NATION. This is not true for the BOC. If you sin, I am not punished for it.---kathr4453

SCRIPTURE states otherwise as mentioned in 1 Cor 12:25-26

//So again, your verse has nothing to do with 2 Chronicles 7:14--kathr4453 on 2/26/17

So again, you ALWAYS speak opposite of Scripture.

WHY?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/26/17


Isa 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it, but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. (KJV)


Again Trey, since Jesus Christ is HEAD of His Body, the Church, there is no way Jesus head has putrefying sores. These verses are OT verses to earthly Israel. I do hope that Jesus death and resurrection and those IN CHRIST have a much better standing TODAY than earthly Israel YESTERDAY who was not IN CHRIST in the first place.

Why do so many curse the Church, the BOC with OT curses and condemnation. there is NOW no condemnation to those IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/17


For the most part, I believe this to describe the condition of the churches:

Isa 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it, but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. (KJV)

So many of God's people are a mess including many of his ministers.
---Trey on 2/26/17




Nicole, The sufferings of Christ we all share in as His Body, is not a curse or because of any wickedness within the Body that needs to be turned from. So again, your verse has nothing to do with 2 Chronicles 7:14
---kathr4453 on 2/26/17


2 Chronicles 7:14
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.


//A Nation of people addressing the NATION OF ISRAEL...THAT LAND. Under the Law, when one sinned THEY ALL SUFFERED AS A NATION. This is not true for the BOC. If you sin, I am not punished for it.---kathr4453

Kathr, Jesus is the Land. He took Israel and our sins unto Him.

His Body

1 Cor 12:25-26
that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together, if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/24/17


Well it appears no one has answered this question. ...WHAT LAND IS 2 Chronicles 7:14 referring to.

It's actually wrong to use scripture to mislead people. And this one is a total misleading for any Christian anywhere. Christians TODAY are IN CHRIST. And the way one comes to be IN CHRIST is to be crucified with Christ and raised a New Creature. Our old sin man is DEAD in Gods eyes, SO, this cannot be addressing those IN CHRIST. We're waiting FOR Jesus, not healed land.

However it did address the NATION of Israel. A Nation of people addressing the NATION OF ISRAEL...THAT LAND. Under the Law, when one sinned THEY ALL SUFFERED AS A NATION. This is not true for the BOC. If you sin, I am not punished for it.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/17


//The Lutherans have a catechism too, and it is for religious training, and to learn perspectives and particular views as the Lutheran church would teach them.---mike4879 on 2/19/17

EXACTLY!

Thank you, because I forgot to mention that the Lutheran were the FIRST to come out with the catechism.

The Catholic Church copied the Lutheran and put out their own catechism.

The Catholic Church saw the wisdom of the Lutherans
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/20/17


The Lutherans have a catechism too, and it is for religious training, and to learn perspectives and particular views as the Lutheran church would teach them.
---mike4879 on 2/19/17




As for your catechism, it is a book that the RCC teaches THEIR interpretation of the bible - much like the Book of Mormon.---Steveng

INCORRECT!

The Catechism is an explanation of our FAITH and MORALS and USES THE BIBLE with the CHURCH as it's AUTHORITY GIVEN BY JESUS!

Ex: Catholic Church states abortion is a moral sin in the Catechism.

The Catechism explains WHY it is a moral sin because the of the 5th Commandment (6th for Protestants).

Then the CCC would give chapter and verse in the OT of course and Jesus' Commands in the NT upholding the 10 Commandments.

The Book of Mormon isn't an interpretation of the Bible, but additional books of the Bible lost but found by Joseph Smith.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/19/17


//sabbath was never a day of worship,//

Worship/Sacrifice and Rest are interchangeable words to God. Read Exodus

//Therefore the idea that Jesus didn't do away with the Law as Nicole states,//

Me? I'm not Jesus!

What does the word 'Abolish' mean to you?

Calling Jesus a liar in Matt 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have NOT come to ABOLISH them but to fulfill them."

Not only the law but ALL the Prophets as well!

//Can't have your cake and eat it too.--Kathr

Seems like you are trying to eat your cake.
Making up Scriptures and wanting Jesus to bless your words.

Kathr, please read the Scriptures again. It's been a LONG TIME
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/19/17


//Catholic church offer a mass on Saturdays as well? ---mike4879

Yes. Saturday evenings since the day starts in the evening

//who said anything about Israel not being promised a savior.//

You did:

//There are promises to Israel that are not to the church, BUT the promises concerning a savior we see was given to Abraham regarding Gentiles was fulfilled.---kathr4453 on 2/16/17

//God never promised the church the Land we call Jerusalem either.//

Jesus is the Land

//Jerusalem does not belong to the Church or the RCC.---kathr4453

Jerusalem belongs to God. Everything belonging to God belongs to Jesus. So Jerusalem belongs to Jesus.
Soooooo, if we are the BOC it does belong to the Church.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/18/17


Christians can worship and hold a church service any day of the week it's heart so desires.

The sabbath was never a day of worship, but a day of rest....absolute REST, no work, or one under the law would be stoned to death. The laws for the sabbath rest were quite severe.

So again the sabbath was never a day of worship, and certainly did to change to Sunday where Christians are under a Sunday LAW, of rest, who will be put to death if disobeyed.

Therefore the idea that Jesus didn't do away with the Law as Nicole states, says she is still under all the law ....all 600 +.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. All the IKONS and false gods statutes etc in the RCC are under the Law IDOLTRY worthy of curses and death.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/17


kathr4453 wrote: "There were promiseS made to earthly Israel ALONE under the LAW."

Kathr, God chose the Israelites to bring God's word to the world - they failed. They also thought that God was speaking to them only.


Nicole wrote: "Where in the Bible does it state the Sabbath day is called SATURDAY?"

It isn't specifically written as "Saturday," but it is the seventh day according to the jewish calendar - and they DO remember.

As for your catechism, it is a book that the RCC teaches THEIR interpretation of the bible - much like the Book of Mormon. RCC figures that if they cannot "add or subtract" from the bible, they might as well have a separate book of interpretation.
---Steveng on 2/19/17


Correct me if I am wrong, but does not the Catholic church offer a mass on Saturdays as well?
---mike4879 on 2/18/17


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Nicole the promises to earthly Israel, APART FROM THE REDEEMER, which that promise came long before there was an Israel, promises made UNDER THE LAW, which was never promised to Gentiles ( again not speaking of the promise of the redeemer) . Gentiles were never under the Law of Moses, and even after Jesus death and resurrection, are still not under the Law of Moses.

There were promiseS made to earthly Israel ALONE under the LAW. And because the Church today cannot rightly divide, this is where ALL the teaching of the FALSE prosperity gospel comes from. OUR blessings are IN CHRIST. And Jesus took the curses under the Law, never addressed to Gentiles.

YOU are not responsible for confessing OR being punished for YOUR parents sin.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


Nicole, who said anything about Israel not being promised a savior. What is wrong with you....up to your games again? If you are going to play this game again, twisting things not said so out of proportion ....I refuse to play. I will just have to leave you in your own game playing ignorance.

God never promised the church the Land we call Jerusalem either. The RCC may have killed and murdered folks because of its strange obsession through out the crusades that it needed to rescue it from Islam and the Jews is FALSE TOO. Hopefully that won't be what causes end times wrath from God....Jerusalem does not belong to the Church or the RCC....FOR EXAMPLE...GET IT???
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


//of Catholic Doctrine, we read://

That's your doctrine you placed on Catholics.

WE HAVE A CATECHISM to help you with CITATIONS

If you can't cite from the Catechism then you are dishonest.

//Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.//

Where in the Bible does it state the Sabbath day is called SATURDAY? Chapter and verse?

//Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.//


Wait one minute! I DIDN'T KNOW you were Catholic!

So you go to Church on Sunday because the CATHOLIC CHURCH TOLD TO GO ON SUNDAYS?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/18/17


//There are promises to Israel that are not to the church, BUT the promises concerning a savior we see was given to Abraham regarding Gentiles was fulfilled.---kathr4453

Are you saying ISRAEL was not promised a Savior?

Plus, are you claiming that the Savior is promised to Abraham, NOT the SAME Savior promised to Israel?

Exodus 21:23-24 But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, an eye for an eye,,..

Matthew 5:38-39 You have heard that it was said, (Jesus is speaking about Exodus and TOOK IT APART!) Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

MANY MORE
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/18/17


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of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


//why the RCC abolished the LAW of the Sabbath//

Strange?

No one told me?

No one told my Priest?

Please tell me the CCC# so I can tell my Priest and everyone at Church next SUNDAY that we are not supposed to be at Church.

//even changed the 10 commandments to say Sunday.//

My 10 Commandments/3rd Commandment states: KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY..No Sunday.

Does your commandments says Sunday?..

You most likely STILL have the 3rd Commandment moved to the 4th spot. Or maybe you all moved it AGAIN to 6th or 7th spot.

//So by your own words you have not only condemned yourself, but your own church.--Kathr

Please tell your leader to stop shuffling the Commandments.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/17/17


In detail, Luke 6:20-26 and Deuteronomy 30:19 are different, but do they not have the same author?
---mike4879 on 2/17/17


Kathr4453 were you a bigtime Obama Fan? Did you vote for Hillary and have a high case of the 'I hate Trump blues?' Is that why you're so against this verse being applied to America by our Christian Vice President Mike Pence?

I'll be honest, I thought it as much from the beginning and thought oh well let's play along and see if it's really about respect for the truth of God's word. I can't tell.

I still suspect the worst. Pray for our president if you don't. Pray for our nation. If he's really as much a demon as the news media has made him out to be, how much more ought we be praying? God Bless you abundantly for your faith in doing it. I suspect you will, Amen.
---Pharisee on 2/17/17


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I keep getting the run around on this question. I never asked what are good verses to compare this with that. I never asked HOW the Beautitudes might compare to the blessings and cursings given to Israel. The Beautitudes are great, but not being able to distinguish what an exact verse means and to who it applies to is like taking a 500 peace puzzle and slapping it together, where if there are some similar pieces slightly curved this way or that, but we FORCE THEM in a place they were never meant to go, will not give you an accurate picture.

Every piece has its place. And if folks understood that, there would be no confusion even about verses that seem to contradict from another.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


WHere in the Beautitudes is the curse of the plagues of Egypt coming upon anyone for disobedience? What chapter and verse is that stated?

Please show the parallel you seem to see? Do you even know what the curses in the OT under the Law of Moses are? And the Beautitudes have nothing to do with the law of Moses.

When Israel brout idols etc into their Promised Land and defiled Solomon's temple, they were driven off the land just as God said He would do.

So again how exactly does that apply to. the BOC....is the land your address in Indiana? America? The BOC is all over the world. How is land healed in Somalia when Christians repent of their WICHED ways....will those not Christians stop murdering? And exactly HOW?
---kathr4453 on 2/17/17


Kathr, Jesus said His FULFILLED the LAW not abolish the Law Matthew 5:17//// Nicole

Ok Nicole, than explain to all here exactly then why the RCC abolished the LAW of the Sabbath and even changed the 10 commandments to say Sunday.

So by your own words you have not only condemned yourself, but your own church.

Now exactly WHY did your church ABOLISH the Sabbath being on Saturday? Why did your Church actually change the 10 commandments? You can't have it both ways Nicole.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/17


Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. (Hebrews 13:8)

There are examples of GRACE in the Old Testament, and there are examples of JUDGMENT in the New Testament. CONSIDER!

We read of the grace Jesus show a woman saying "Let he without sin be first to cast the stone." (John 8:7)

BEFORE THIS, we read in the Old Testament where God says,

Hosea 4:14 I will not punish your daughters when they turn to prostitution, nor your daughters-in-law when they commit adultery, because the men themselves consort with harlots and sacrifice with shrine prostitutes a people without understanding will come to ruin!

What of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5)? God made examples of them and STRUCK THEM DEAD.
---mike4879 on 2/17/17


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I think Nicole_Lacey drew a splendid comparison between the blessings and curses in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy) and the blessings and woes of the New Testament written in the Beatitudes (Matthew). Jesus did not come to nullify the law. While we are under grace, there is still sin and death and the law. We are not to reject the grace. But we are to remember the Law. And LOVE FULFILLS THE LAW. All the DO NOT's in God's law are summarized in love. Jesus did not abolish this. He ushered in more grace. He did not can any words of the prophets.
---mike4879 on 2/17/17


//The Beautitudes are NOT the blessings and curses given to Israel UNDER THE LAW.//

Kathr, Jesus said His FULFILLED the LAW not abolish the Law Matthew 5:17

Jesus is Israel.

His life repeats all of Israel, expect He IS OBEDIENT to the FATHER.

Then through HIS BODY (Israel first) we enter into the Promise Land for rest.

You CAN NOT enter Heaven without grafting yourself in the BOC.

ISRAEL FIRST!

So when Jesus pronounces the Beatitudes and Woes they were to ISRAEL!

He wasn't speaking to the Greeks or Romans.

He was sent to Isreal.

//And no scripture promises there will be.--kathr4453

The BOC is Israel with her Peace. Peace dwells in Him.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/17/17


Nicole, The Beautitudes are NOT the blessings and curses given to Israel UNDER THE LAW. Not even close to the blessings and curses spoken in Leviticus and Deut. So laugh and smirk all you want that Pharisee picked up his ball and went home. He like yourself did not have any legitimate scripture to back up 2Chronicles 7:14 applying to us today. One day that will be fulfilled TO ISRAEL, during the 1000 year reign. LITERALLY

There will be peace on earth one day Nicole, when Jesus comes and rules and reigns. But before then, there will not be peace on earth, or any healed land or REST until then. And no scripture promises there will be.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/17


Kathr, you do realize that Pharisee picked up the ball and went home?

//We are not under the law of blessings and cursings given to Israel. And those blessings and cursings are not transferred to the Church to bless and curse.--kathr4453on 2/16/17

Sooooo the Blessings in the Beatitudes and the woes giving by Jesus are empty words?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/16/17


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The same concept is applied by many to the sabbath, and all the laws under the sabbath. Many still practice those laws of blessings and cursings, and still keep the sabbath. 2Chronicles 7:14 if you read the whole chapter is this very same blessing and cursing given to Israel under the Law, Deut and Lev.

There are those who know the law was fulfilled In Christ where He took the curses under the law, and also fulfilled the Sabbath, where we now ENTER HIS REST as opposed to keeping the sabbath.

So spiritually speaking to those Born Again, THE LAND for us is Christ Himself. We are not under the law of blessings and cursings given to Israel. And those blessings and cursings are not transferred to the Church to bless and curse.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/17


Pharisee, thanks for the good laugh.


-Picks mic up-


//There are promises to Israel that are not to the church,---kathr4453

Please name one?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/16/17


Pharisee, the promises in the OT were fulfilled IN CHRIST. Yes, there are more promises made under the Law, those specifically to Israel.

Always ask, WHO, WHAT WHEN WHERE HOW AND WHY. Who was God talking to..what was he talking about, when was this promise made, where was it make , How is God going to bring it to pass, and most of all WHY did He make it in the first place.

We also know that the Law was Good, but we also know that the law could bring no one to perfection. And we see absolutely no evidence that this verse has ever been brought to pass ANYWHERE EVER.

There are promises to Israel that are not to the church, BUT the promises concerning a savior we see was given to Abraham regarding Gentiles was fulfilled.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/17


I'm done with this. You talk a lot and say nothing. I showed you where Paul in the church age said that in Christ the promises of God (old testament scriptures) are yes and Amen when you said OT scriptures couldn't apply. Strike one

I showed you where Jesus himself said his "servants" (his words) committed "fornication" while you said it doesn't happen. Strike two

The only contention remaining is whether or not 2 Chronicles 7:14 can apply to a nation that was devoted to God that's not Israel. I say strike three, you say Ball one. I'm assigning myself as umpire and I say YOU'RE OUT. I could be wrong but you're still out LOL

-Drops mic-
---Pharisee on 2/15/17


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Also Pharisee, the warnings in Revelation to the churches never promise healed land, but the promise to reign and rule with Christ. The OVERCOMERS are also promised they will not face the second death.

So again in reference to my original question.....WHAT LAND? That verse like so many we see people spiritualized away. The verse addresses LITERAL LAND.

And many professing to be Christians in the Churches we see in Revelation, are NOT, and that is what is being addressed.

If some say Laodecia the 7th church is America, or the last church on earth before the end, it shows not all who say LORD LORD are saved. Only those Crucified with Christ ARE the TRUE CHRISTIAN who have bought gold TRIED IN THE FIRE.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


Pharisee, I also know people don't know the difference between the earthly church buildings where Christians gather, and non Christians go , some for the purpose of misleading ..doing satan's work. I'm actually not talking about that church. I'm talking about the heavenly church, the Body of Christ. And driving false teachers out of the churches or shutting down false churches in America, like The CHURCH OF Scientology, categorized as a religion, is something that will never happen under our laws and constitution. Now under a theocracy as Israel was, they would have every right to drive that eye sore off the land.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


Okay so no answer to my question, I gave you verses where Jesus himself says his servants (church age believers) committed "fornication" and your idea to deal with that is to tell me I'm not saved.

That's great, good thing you're not in charge of Heaven because you're clueless about me, you have no business commenting on the fate or faith of others, that's very immature spiritually. Peace.
---Pharisee on 2/15/17


I do know the difference, and I think you need to understand that Paul in Romans referred to the church as an "engrafted branch."

This makes everything you said about the Old Testament saints in your last post utter nonsense, the exception being that they indeed were not filled with the Holy Spirit as in the New Covenant.

So please give an answer to the passages I quoted from Revelation according to your doctrine that clearly show the "servants" of God committing fornication. That's church age sin. Wicked saints doing wicked things.
---Pharisee on 2/15/17


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Pharisee, like I said before, those in the OT were not in the BOC, that is joined together with Christ, baptized into His death, raised a New Creature IN CHRIST and sons of God, joint heirs with Christ.

When you come to know the difference, if you should ever come to know the difference, I pray one day you will, then you may see the truth. To assault and accuse the BOC is to accuse Christ Himself.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/17


Did Jesus commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit here Kathr4453?

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

"HUH??? Oh surely they're NOT BORN AGAIN...Right???


"because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."

Comon Jesus stop hurling verses at the body of Christ!
---Pharisee on 2/14/17


Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Also 1John says those who are born of God do not sin. not to say there is such a thing as sinless perfection, however Pharisee, it clearly says along with the e verses in Matthew that God does not separate the man from the actions of the man.

And RichardC, that's why the very next sentence ...( not next chapter) says there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ, who,walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. And further says WE ARE IN THE SPIRIT if we are Christ's.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/17


So, with Matthew, Romans 8, 1st John .....that WE, that is those who are in Christ , are In the spirit and not in the flesh, and to hurl that verse against the Church ..those IN CHRIST, sealed with the Holy Spirit just may be what is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Because that is what you are doing by misappropriating this verse. Those in OT Israel were not Born Again, we're not in the Spirit or IN CHRIST. A difference that is as different as night and day.

I realize it is done out of ignorance, but now you should not have that ignorance to hide behind.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/17


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Romans 9:27 - Esaias also cried concerning Israel Though number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved,

Romans 8:10 - And Christ be in you , the Body is dead because of sin, But the spirit is life because of righteousness,

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the law of God after the inward man
7:23 - But I see another law in my members , warring against the law of my mind, and bring me into captivity, to the law of sin which is in my members,
7:24 - O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of death,
7:25 - I thank God though Jesus Christ our Lord, So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, But with the flesh the law of sin,
---RichardC on 2/13/17


The verse doesn't say the people are wicked. It says "wicked ways." You're adding something to the verse that's NOT THERE and then arguing that because the thing you added to the verse doesn't fit it just doesn't apply.

My darling please listen. That's delusional behavior, you've deceived yourself!

The verse doesn't say "wicked people," it says "wicked ways." A man who stares at women's butts has a wicked way about him. Nobody even knows he's doing it so he'll never stop. It's wicked. Why do you think something like this can't be a stronghold in a Christian's mind??? I'm telling you Christians can be and do get caught in all kinds of "wicked" habits, obsessions and addictions.
---Pharisee on 2/14/17


Not everyone who is a Christian is a SAINT. Not all who are called Israel are Israel. Even Satan believes in God AND SHUTTERS! If Jesus be called Beelzebub, how much more his servents? TRUE! The church is to be holy,but it needs to be refined and pruned. Did Jesus not choose the 12? Yet one was a devil?
---mike4879 on 2/14/17


Christians seen from Gods perspective Are SAINTS. The word WICKED, has a totally different flavor. Anyone who was originally a pagan heathen before hearing the Gospel was called WICKED. Once one becomes joined to Christ....is never called WICKED. Israel was not saved. Maybe a hand full were, but the nation as a whole wasN't. They were still to God...MY PEOPLE.

In Hawaii, it is well known the Queen was married to her brother. When she was saved, she was told her relationship with her brother was sin and she would have to give him up. She did, but also died of a broken heart. There are many heathen practices you have never heard of. She was not called WICKED. She was just told that Christianity does not do such things.
---kathr4453 on 2/13/17


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I'm not sure on all that. I do not see that Paul had even said that the man's father had died. ONLY THAT the son was marrying his father's wife which was not even common among pagans and people were proud (may be of this new freedom in Christ). The law through Moses would forbid such union. A father was not to have his son's wife nor a son his father's. It does not matter that the woman is not his mother. She was the wife of his father. Any way, sinners make up the church, even the likes of David and the likes of Paul (who formerly persecuted the church).
---mike4879 on 2/13/17


1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

It rather sounds to me that to call the body of Christ holy is to be deceived.

For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.2Corinthians 1:20

How any promises? Just the ones when Israel wasn't in Exile right? And we know the OT was the promises he spoke of those were the "scriptures" in those times.
---Pharisee on 2/13/17


Pharisee, to call The Body wicked, is to call Christ Himself wicked. It has nothing to do with whether one gets out or not. IT does have to do with rightly dividing the word of truth. The man who married his deceased fathers wife, does not say she was his biological mother. And remember these were heathens who were also baby Christians who may not have known better bringing their customs into the church. We see in 2 Corinthians he obeyed and was restored to the church. The church didn't need any land healed, nor was any land in jeopardy. And no where does Paul say that the man's land was healed when he repented.

2 chronicles 2:14 is talking to Israel who was in exile. The Nation was in exile.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/17


Steveng, yes Nineveh is a good point. However Nineveh was never called "MY PEOPLE," that is my point.

Nineveh was in sin, and they all repented and God turned away His wrath for that moment anyway.

So yes, there are appropriate verses to Nations, but it is not 2 Chronicles 7:14.

America is the only Nation who uses that because according to Peter Marshall, the Puritans decided on their own that America was Gods new promised land and THEY pronounced themselves as Gods NEW chosen people. And there are those who have bought into that lie ever since.

God never said He would take ISRAELS covenant promises from them and give it to America or any gentile nation for that matter.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/17


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"The Body of Christ is not WICKED."

You don't get out much do you? You don't have to look farther than your Bible however. What of the Corinthian church where one man had his Father's WIFE?!

What about David who committed adultery and then when he couldn't cover it up he murdered the man against whom he sinned?! [remember the Kings of old had the Holy Spirit upon them]

The body of Christ gets caught in all manner of sin, what makes them who they are is that God will save them anyway because he put his seal on them. How else do you explain the "wood hay and stubble" Christian being saved in Corinthians 3?
---Pharisee on 2/12/17


It also should be noted that those who teach the prosperity gospel also use this verse, and many verses that apply to Israel alone. So to be mamba pamby about it and say...oh it's really not hurting anyone to use it, yes it was originally to Israel, but no harm for others to,use it......is so naive. It's as harmful as the false prosperity Gospel taking scripture never spoken to the BOC.

Our riches are not here, but in heaven. And America is not a Theocracy. And there has NEVER been a time in America even from the beginning where everything was bliss. There have always been idols and false gods here. And there always will be. It's in our constitution. The Scientologists have FREEDOM of religion. Deal with it.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/17


I think there are more false prophets than there are prophets. A number of immature sinners think themselves prophets or that they have been given a word from THE LORD when they haven't. Of buildings built by hand, more are in GOOD ENOUGH CONDITION. But that which God forms is not in the condition we will like. It is an immature church.
---mike4879 on 2/12/17


What Is The Condition Of Church? It depends. The body of Christ, or denominations, or buildings. The condition of all three is absolutely terrible. Remember the great falling away.

As for the land, God will send a prophet (yes, there are prophets today) to any town, city, county, state, country or any piece of land as he chooses to have the people of that land repent. Didn't God send Jonah to the city of Nineveh?

The land of Israel today was a piece of land that no one wanted - not even the arabs. But God healed the land in which the Israelis turned it into an agricultural wonder. In fact, a majority of roses in the Pasadena Rose Parade come from Israel.
---Steveng on 2/12/17


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The point is, when God spoke this to Israel under a THEOCRACY. So, the answer is NO, this does not apply to the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is not WICKED.

If this applies to,Christians today, it has to apply to ALL THE WORLD CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE. So it's implying those hand full of Christians in say some Islamic countries are responsible for the wickedness of these countries murdering Christians and if the Christian repents, God will heal THEIR LAND...? And these evil murderers will not murder Christians any more. Putting the blame of Christian deaths on the Christians themselves. Seriously?
---kathr4453 on 2/12/17


Did I not say that the verse refers to Israel???

I do however believe that God's word is prophetic. What was true before will be true again concerning the things of God and his relation to man unless he speaks otherwise.

And I would invite you to put this to the test and see if he doesn't honor OT covenant promises with Christians the way he honored the covenant in the OT times. My experience says that for the most part he does. If there were more room on here I could make the case from the scriptures to prove it to you. Don't believe me though, try it yourself and see. He honors them for me. Why else would I believe as I do??? Moreover if you already know the answer to this question why did you ask it?
---Pharisee on 2/12/17


Some times I wonder if the 144,000 in Revelations is literal, and that is all out of the trillions who will be saved. NOT ONE IN A THOUSAND. LIKE SODOM AND GOMORRAH AND THE FLOOD.
---mike4879 on 2/12/17


Pharisee, if there are any people who have not already turned from their wicked ways, they are not Christians saved by the Grace of God....would not even be called my people, no matter how one wants to stretch it.

I know many churches use this and say it is addressed to America. But God never made a Covenant with a Gentile Nation. And America is not Gods People. There may be a hand full of Gods people here, but the nation as a whole are not saved. Jesus didn't come to save Nations, but Individuals. Ungodly people in America are responsible for America being wicked. CHristians are not responsible for the sins of the wicked who belong to Satan.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/17


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What land? Name a country whose founding was in the name of the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob AND by extension of Jesus Christ. I can think of two in the world today, there could be more.

What people? God had said "I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people" Hosea 2:23

Of course originally the reference wasn't referring to my back yard but Israel, the greater Israel founded under David's reign and not the later divided Kingdoms of Israel and Judea. The Kingdoms were split when Solomon began worshiping False gods. By the way, Solomon never ceased to be "his people."
---Pharisee on 2/11/17


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