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Faith For Food

How much faith will you give up in exchange for water, food and a roof over your head?

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 ---Steveng on 2/12/17
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//It's a promise made by Jesus, but how was it kept? All of the original disciples (to whom this was address) died horrible deaths as martyrs (except John, who died of old age in exile).//

Rev 22:10-12
12 Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

//Why do we need food and clothing after death?---StrongAxe on 2/23/17

It doesn't matter why. I guess it's a reward as well.

Revelation 6:11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/23/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: It's a promise kept my Jesus.

It's a promise made by Jesus, but how was it kept? All of the original disciples (to whom this was address) died horrible deaths as martyrs (except John, who died of old age in exile).

You are acting as if death has the final word?

Why do we need food and clothing after death?
---StrongAxe on 2/23/17


//Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.

So, if that wasn't a promise, what was it?
---StrongAxe on 2/22/17

It's a promise kept my Jesus.

1st prove they DIDN'T get the promises?

More promises are giving after death as well.

You are acting as if death has the final word?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/22/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: No promises made as you believe.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.

So, if that wasn't a promise, what was it?
---StrongAxe on 2/22/17


//The fact that martyrs preferred the rewards of the next world over the ones in this word does not alter the fact that they were promised rewards in this word, but did not receive them. ---StrongAxe on 2/19/17

No promises made as you believe.

Jesus was clear, over and over in the Gospels that we will die as He died.

We will suffer as He suffered.

Matthew 6 explains of those following Jesus and getting their rewards.

Just because they die at the end DOESN'T MEAN Jesus didn't provide for them as He promised.

They can't live forever.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/22/17




I do believe that there are instances of people being denied these things.
---mike4879 on 2/19/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: I disagree. Many Martyrs do get all the things you mentioned. Paul is one of them.

That doesn't matter. As long as even ONE doesn't, it means the promise is not absolute.

Matthew 6:25-33 is speaking about rewards during life.

Exactly. I very specifically said that I was referring ONLY to this very specific passage, and its promises for this life. The fact that martyrs preferred the rewards of the next world over the ones in this word does not alter the fact that they were promised rewards in this word, but did not receive them.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/17


//Matthew 6:25-33 is very clear what it is talking about - food, drink, clothing, etc. I was referring very specifically to this, and this only - that, despite this scripture, martyrs do NOT have "all these things added to them", but rather, suffer persecution and death.--StrongAxe

I disagree.

Many Martyrs do get all the things you mentioned. Paul is one of them.

As you know Martyrdom only applies to death.
Which the greatest reward of them all is waiting for him or her after death. Heaven

Matthew 6:25-33 is speaking about rewards during life.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/19/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Depends on what Reward are you looking for the Martyrs?

Matthew 6:25-33 is very clear what it is talking about - food, drink, clothing, etc. I was referring very specifically to this, and this only - that, despite this scripture, martyrs do NOT have "all these things added to them", but rather, suffer persecution and death.

I never said that martyrs are wrong in denying themselves - only that the above scripture is not absolute, because it manifestly does not apply to them.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/17


//"if you seek God and his righteousness, all these things will be added unto you". Martyrs are specific counter-examples, because rather than reaping the rewards of their faith, they suffer persecution and death specifically because of it.---StrongAxe on 2/16/17

Depends on what Reward are you looking for the Martyrs?

The Reward is in Heaven.

Martyrs mean dying because you refuse to deny Jesus.

Jesus states one must endure to the end even if it causes death.

Besides if one exchanges food for martyrdom then the food and earthly life is his or her reward.

Afterlife might be a different story.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/18/17




aservant:

Yes, I know. Martyrs hold fast to their faith, despite the adversity. I was not questioning that.

I WAS questioning the universality of assumption that "if you seek God and his righteousness, all these things will be added unto you". Martyrs are specific counter-examples, because rather than reaping the rewards of their faith, they suffer persecution and death specifically because of it.
---StrongAxe on 2/16/17


---StrongAxe on 2/15/17

The question's context was "trading faith" to get food, water, shelter.

Jesus did not make that trade. He was taken by the Spirit to be tempted. Yet, He could have brought forth all these things, but did not because He needed to show faith in the Father's plan.

Job also, did not make that trade. He had enough all, so that he had no need to trade. Father afflicted him via Satan, so that Satan (and you and me) would understand Job's loyalty was real and not because Father 'purchased' loyalty with blessings. When his blessings were taken, Job continued to trust Father.
---aservant on 2/15/17


aservant:

You wrote: Martyrs would not give up their faith to gain food, water, shelter. They die rather than submit to things that dishonor God.

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about "If you seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, all these things will be given unto you". Martyrs are living examples thet this is not always the case, because they DID seek God and his kingdom, but rather than food, shelter, and security, they received suffering and death. Jesus even more so. He was the epitome of God's will, yet he didn't even have a place to lay his head. And don't forget Job.
---StrongAxe on 2/15/17


but the very existence of Christian martyrs of any kind means it is not generally true in practice. Just look at Jesus!---StrongAxe on 2/14/17

Martyrs would not give up their faith to gain food, water, shelter. They die rather than submit to things that dishonor God.

It was reported there were several Christian girls around 14 who were forced to choose marriage to men of Isis or be executed by sword. They were all executed, having their stomachs cut open, rather than dishonor Jesus.
---aservant on 2/14/17


aservant:

While that is likely true in first world countries like U.S.A and Australia, many people (including Christians) in many third world countries face such dilemmas every day. Given that the vast majority of the world's population do NOT live in first world countries, the statement that "most Christians" will never have to face that proposition may not even be true.

Father provide for the needs of even the evil, the pagans, and atheists, how much more will He provide for those who are actively seeking or serving Him?

True in theory perhaps, but the very existence of Christian martyrs of any kind means it is not generally true in practice. Just look at Jesus!
---StrongAxe on 2/14/17


TRUE, Strong Axe! I have my own struggle in grappling. We are not in a country of famine or under tyrant rule. Some people do not love this life enough to shy from death. Some choose not to eat until they die. Not every one is so eager after food that they will give up salvation for a meal as Esau who sold his birth right for a single meal. Unfortunate for those that do.
---mike4879 on 2/13/17


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Steveng, if you have true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you can never give it up. It is not something you contrived on your own, it comes from God.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-not because of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9.
---Luke on 2/13/17


mike4879:

You quoted Matthew 6:25-33, which is definitely on point. However, when one's personal experience directly contradicts one's faith, faith can weaken. For example, with v. 26, when we see birds washed up in oil slicks - the heavenly Father did NOT feed them. What happens to people who DO seek the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, but then all these things (i.e. food and clothing) are NOT added unto them? It can lead them to doubt the veracity of scripture, and thus of God himself.
---StrongAxe on 2/13/17


---Steveng on 2/12/17

Most Christians will never have to face that proposition.

Father provide for the needs of even the evil, the pagans, and atheists, how much more will He provide for those who are actively seeking or serving Him?
---aservant on 2/13/17


I have been days without food. Some go on hunger strikes. I do not think most who hope in eternal life will find this an issue.
---mike4879 on 2/13/17


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Do you think anyone is going to truthful answer you?

Why not ask if they would trade their soul for $1 billion dollars?

People on CN naturally would not pick food over their Faith.

No one wants to go to hell.

Why don't you go first?

"How much faith will you give up in exchange for water, food and a roof over your head?"
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/13/17


Most of us have already answered that question. God knows.
---Pharisee on 2/12/17


I didn't know you had to give up faith for food, water and a roof over your head. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you. In context of Matthew 6:25-33 that is what we eat, drink and wear. Paul learned contentment. He knew hunger. He knew cold. Better a dry rusk with contentment. There are enough public faucets and soup kitchens and shelters in the U.S. that in the U.S., there are many prefering a homeless life. Some of the best meals I have eaten were in soup kitchens. And in my adult life, I was happiest living in a cabin without running water or electricity. For me, other things are more a complaint. God does well at providing me my daily bread even in my not having a dollar or having only a credit card.
---mike4879 on 2/12/17


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