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How Does God Select

Jesus stated, "Many are called, but few are chosen". If there is nothing we can do to merit Gods Grace, what criteria does God use to make his selection?

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 ---David on 3/9/17
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7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

Also David, when I read and study Galatians, re "falling from grace" which Paul shows falling from the doctrine of CHRIST IN YOU, re Galatians 2:20-21, and seeing them going under the law after beginning in the spirit..Gal 3, which is the definition of falling from grace...and Paul saying he would remain with them until Christ was FORMED IN THEM AGAIN, and showing Grace is the opposite of the Law, ..that we are also to GROW in the Grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, gives a deeper understanding of the term GRACE in the NT.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/17


Actually it was his righteousness that saved Noah. Had he been unrighteous like all those who drowned in the flood he would have perished along with them. So, first he was righteous and therefore God looked on him with grace and second, Noah saved himself and his family from certain physical death because he obeyed God and built the ark.

Jesus is full of grace and truth but grace alone cannot save us. We must know Him, who is the Truth, practice the Truth and be sanctified through it. John 17:17, John 18:37.
---barb on 3/24/17


David again, finding grace in the eyes of the Lord, Yes, because Noah was already justified by faith?--Kathryn

Kathryn
I agree, "Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord, and it was through Faith". If Grace in the Old Testament was obtained through Faith, and Grace in the New Testament is obtained through faith, this proves, Grace is the same in both New and Old Testaments.

(Genesis 6:8) tells us why God did not kill Noah along with the rest of mankind,,,, true? Now If Noah was not killed because he found Grace in the eyes of the Lord, wasn't it Grace that saved Noah?
---David on 3/24/17


David again, finding grace in the eyes of the Lord, yes because Noah was already justified by faith. But finding France in Gods Eyes is not the exact same definition of NT being saved By Grace. And no where do you see the term in the NT of anyone finding grace in Gods Eyes.

Noah was not Born Again...( only those in the NT are). The finished works of Christ INCLUDE the New Birth. The New Birth came as a result of Jesus resurrection. Noah was not CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and Christ was NOT "IN" NOAH. Galatians 2:20-21....nor was he under the law of Moses. OT were JUSTIFIED by faith only until,Jesus rose from the dead. THEN they were made perfect...Hebrews 12...the spirits of JUST MEN made PERFECT.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/17


John 3:8 - The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou heareth the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goes: so it is every one that is born of the spirit,
---RichardC on 3/22/17




That's why David. Noah already had a relationship with God. And because of that, God spared Noah and his family from drowning.--Kathryn

Kathryn
I agree, Noah was saved because of his relationship with God. Don't you believe it was because of this relationship, he found Grace in the eyes of God? If not, how do you believe Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord?
---David on 3/23/17


God saved Noah and family BECAUSE Genesis 6: 9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God.

That's why David. Noah already had a relationship with God. And because of that God spared Noah and his family from drowning. Noah also preached for 100+ years.

But again David, I already said you will find many verses saying so and so,found GRACE IN SOMEONES EYES. Jospeh found grace in Pharoahs eyes too.....but sparing someone's life and ETERNAL LIFE GIVEN BY GOD, are two entirely different matters.

Enoch walked with God...yet nothing is said about Enoch finding GRACE in Gods eyes.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/17


So,again David, you did not read what I wrote. And again, no verses, not even the one you posted said Noah was "Saved by Grace". Noah and his family were saved by building an ark and getting in it. So were umpteen thousand animals. And also Noah's sons and wives. So in essence Noah and family and animals were saved by the finished works of Noah. Not quite the same as being saved by the finished works of Christ.

BUT if anyone, even one person had believed Noah and gotten on the ark....without even contributing to the building of it....their FAITH in Gods warning would have saved them from drowning.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/17


David, I looked again and could find NO OT SCRIPTURE with the words "saved by grace". --Kathryn

(Genesis 6:6-8) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air, for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Kathryn
This passage tells us why God destroyed everything that lived on Earth, and why he saved Noah. What reason does the Bible give for God saving Noah?
---David on 3/22/17


David, I would have to see the verses you are referring to. I don't see any scripture in the OT stating anyone being saved BY GRACE. They were justified by faith. Hebrews 11, the greatest book on faith in the OT never once says GRACE. They could not be saved by the FINISHED works of Christ, because it wasn't finished yet in the OT. Their sins were only COVERED...Hebrews 10.

Please read Hebrews 10 David. Also Hebrews 11 says they died without having received THE PROMISE. The Promise was the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Last MAN Adam, IS that life giving spirit. When Jesus rose from the dead, they were then made perfect, and are now in Heaven.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/17




David, I looked again and could find NO OT SCRIPTURE with the words "saved by grace". Just to see the word grace, or the word saved Does not mean it's talking about eternal life. Many verses say God saved them from their enemies. We also see Hagar, found grace in Gods eyes, but no where is that saying she had eternal salvation. It means God took pity on her situation. Or being saved from ones enemies...does not mean salvation.

So please read the verse WITH the chapter to see if the text is talking about ETERNAL LIFE.

In the NT Saved by Grace means ETERNAL LIFE. There is no other way to be saved David. We are saved by the finished works of Christ who died and rose again for the forgivness of sin.....
---kathr4453 on 3/21/17


Kathryn
Why would Paul use Abraham, one who found Grace in the eyes of God, as an example of Grace in the New Testament, if Grace was different in the Old Testament?

And why would Peter use the example of Noah, as one who was saved by Grace, if the Grace he found in the eyes of God was different from the Grace we find in the New testament?
---David on 3/21/17


David, in the OT we see many FOUND GRACE IN GODS EYES. But finding Grace in Gods EYES, is not the NT understanding or definition of GRACE. As we know the English language is limited in using the same word to have many meanings.

In the NT "Grace" is the opposite of the LAW. Even John makes that comparison....Moses came re Law, Jesus came "Grace and Truth" . Also Galatains makes clear what GRACE in the NT mean. Galatians 2:20-21 clarifying.

In the NT I don't believe anyone FOUND GRACE in Gods eyes. I do believe it states we are SAVED BY GRACE through faith.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/17


Again GRACE IS THE CROSS, AKA the Finished WORKS OF CHRIST.---Kathryn

Kathryn
Much of what you wrote showed great insight, but Grace is mentioned many times throughout the Old Testament.

If Grace is the finished works of Christ, why is Grace mentioned in the Old Testament, thousands of years before Christ died on the cross?
---David on 3/21/17


David, the onlycriteria God uses to make His selection are those who's sins are forgiven. Since God cannot fellowship with sinners, and that fellowship stopped when Adam and Eve sinned, and sacrifices were established from Genesis 1, and now Jesus dying for OUR SIN, being made sin for us so that we could be made the righteousness of Christ, SO THAT we could again have fellowship with the Father, ...is the ONLY CRITERIA where God makes His Selection,now being IN CHRIST. Jesus Christ Is the ONLY CHOSEN ONE, and now those IN CHRIST, who's sins are done away with are now called the chosen...but ONLY BECAUSE Jesus Christ is the CHOSEN. Again GRACE IS THE CROSS, AKA the Finished WORKS OF CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/17


It is God's grace working in these people to cause them to so continue in well-doing.--Bill

Bill
In (John 14:21), did Jesus say it's our love for him which causes us to keep his commandments, or it's Gods love for us which causes us keep his commandments?

Kathryn
My take on the parable was the "many", are the Gentiles who came dressed for the wedding. And the "Few", as foretold in (Revelation 7:4), are the children of Abraham.

The Gentile thrown out because he was not dressed for the wedding, represent, those who call Jesus, 'Lord (accept the invitation), but do not make him Lord (dress in wedding clothes), as in ( Matthew 7:21-23).
---David on 3/18/17


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Dave, below you ask about Romans 2:5-7 > this scripture says that those who keep on doing what is good will get glory and honor and immortality. They will receive according to their works, this does say.

But it is God's grace working in these people to cause them to so continue in well-doing. So, it is not merit on their own part! (c:

Also > while we are doing works which God's grace has us doing, this grace is effecting our nature to make us more and more how God's love is . . . so we are ready for Jesus > 1 John 4:17.
---Bill on 3/17/17


There are two views on this. First GOD knows who and what we will choose.

Calvinists says GOD chooses us and we have no say so in the matter.

Arminian view is we are convicted by the Holy Spirit who gives us the right to choose. Those who choose for GOD for all their life are saved.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/17/17


Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

I see those CALLED to the marriage supper. The additional,CHOSEN out of the CALLED don't seem to appear here. And I see they are given the proper attire to wear. I believe it represents those who's sins have been washed as white as snow in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/17


Few are chosen - Few of God's elect are chosen to understand the truths of the gospel. --Trey

Trey
Interesting!
You have given me a different perspective on the phrase "Many are called and few are chosen", and I'm not sure now what my perspective is.

In the (Matthew 22) parable, Many are properly dressed for the wedding, and Few (one) does not come properly dressed for the wedding.

The many are allowed to stay at the wedding, but one (few) is not allowed to stay. Doesn't it appear as though it's better to be one of the many and not the few?
---David on 3/17/17


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Many are called - Many, meaning most, receive the effectual call of God, meaning they are born again.

Few are chosen - Few of God's elect are chosen to understand the truths of the gospel.

Matthew 22
There were many guest who came to the wedding. Only one was cast out of the wedding ceremony for not having on a wedding garment.
---trey on 3/16/17


Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Yes what Luke is referring to is what Jesus told His Apostles in Acts 1:8 and those who received the Holy Spirit I the upper room.

Paul was also given this power...and Holy Spirit, and the Gospel was preached with many signs and wonders AKA POWER.

John the Baptists gospel was not nor any false gospel was not accompanied with POWER ON HIGH.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/17


Because David, if scripture states we justified by His Blood and saved by His Life, that is His Risen Life....then according to the definition of salvation, Jesus Saves.

Can one accept the invitation of God through Jesus Christ for salvation ? Yes, by all means. All are invited, yet not all will accept. But in accepting, one must accept the fact that it is still Jesus who saves, by Grace, through faith....and not of ourself, or of works, lest any man should boast.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/17


Many are called but few are chosen, really means that, when the gospel is preached to many, only a few of them will receive the gospel with power and in the Holy Spirit. Only those chosen will be saved, and only those chosen are of the elect,

"Knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake" 1 Thess. 4,5.
---Luke on 3/16/17


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Christ comes after the tribulation, at the beginning of the thousand year reign. Christian must endure unto the end. Christians will be persecuted, killed and jailed. The mark of the beast will be issued during the tribulation and many christian will take it not knowing it is the mark of
Beast.--Steven


Steven
Your right!
I must have bumped my head before I wrote yesterday. I was mounting an argument against a pre-trib rapture believer, when you clearly are not. Thanks for the rebuttal brother.

Certainly we cannot save ourselves.--Kathryn

Kathryn
If this is true, why didn't Jesus use this as his answer in (Luke 10:25-37)? BTW, His answer goes nicely with the teaching in (James 2:15-26).
---David on 3/15/17


Christ comes after the tribulation, at the beginning of the thousand year reign. Christian must endure unto the end. Christians will be persecuted, killed and jailed. The mark of the beast will be issued during the tribulation and many christian will take it not knowing it is the mark of the beast.
---Steveng on 3/14/17


The second is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ...
---Steveng on 3/11/17


Steven
I use to believe this too, but the 1000 year reign must happen before Christ returns, and I'll try to show you why.

Does Jesus say he will come before or after the tribulation in (Matthew 24:29-30)?

In (Revelation 20:4-5) it tells us those in the first resurrection, are there, because they didn't worship the beast, or get his mark.

Is the mark of the beast given before or after the tribulation?
After reading (Revelation 13: 7-17) and the other passages I mentioned, do you agree?
---David on 3/14/17


David, the word unmerited is not even in scripture. But to your statement ...saved by Grace...that is Jesus finished works, through faith...which is our participation.


Certainly we cannot save ourselves. We cannot be good enough. We cannot shed our own blood, have it acceptable to God and raise ourself from the dead. This is all God.

If perhaps the verse said you were saved by Grace, and left out the "through faith" part...man would have no say...however we have a whole chapter on THROUGH FAITH..and that is Hebrews 11.
If Calvinism is correct...everyone CALLED is chosen, since no one can resist the call. But called and chosen have to do with ministry not salvation.
---kathr4453 on 3/14/17


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God's criteria is His Word. He gave it to Moses, He gave it to His prophets and He gave it to His Son.

Jesus taught it and most of us sang it as children so there can be no mistake...build your house on the Lord, Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Rock and if you believe Him then His words/testimony are your foundation and all other ground is sinking sand.
---barb on 3/13/17


David wrote: "...what criteria does God use to make his selection?"

LOVE - true love - as in the verb form.

There are two resurrections: the first is when Jesus returns and the dead in Christ shall rise first and the living shall be caught up with the dead.

The second is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ when all the other dead shall rise and be judged from the book of life according to their works. There are many adults who do the will of God not knowing they are doing the will of God and there are children who have no concept of sin, repentance, Jesus, God, etc.
---Steveng on 3/11/17


Have any of you considered we might be dealing with two different phases of Grace in the New Testament?

Unmerited Grace, which gave us a Savior through which we can be saved, and merited Grace which gives us the power to become a Son of God.(John 1:17)

Wouldn't this explain verses like (Romans 2:5-7), (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8), & (1 John 3: 9-10), verses an Unmerited favor doctrine completely ignores. Ignored because they can not be reconciled with an unmerited Grace doctrine.
---David on 3/12/17


Thanks again!
You have all shown me, that after all these years, I was wrong. For there truly is an unmerited Grace which I hadn't considered, when trying to understand the Unmerited Grace doctrine.

Though I knew, the Grace through which Jesus Christ was sent was an Unmerited Grace, I never thought folks believed that to be "Saving Grace".

I believe throughout time there has always been an unmerited Grace, but sinful man had no way to be sanctified so we had no access to it.
Without being cleansed of sin, there is no way to be justified before God. Man must stand justified before God, or there can be no relationship.
---David on 3/11/17


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Thanks again!
You have all shown me, that after all these years, I was wrong. For there truly is an unmerited Grace which I hadn't considered, when trying to understand the Unmerited Grace doctrine.

Though I knew, the Grace through which Jesus Christ was sent was an Unmerited Grace, I never thought folks believed that to be "Saving Grace".

I believe throughout time there has always been an unmerited Grace, but sinful man had no way to be sanctified so we had no access to it.
Without being cleansed of sin, there is no way to be justified before God. Man must Sanctified in order to have a relationship with a God.
---David on 3/11/17


Trey, very good answer concerning unmerited favor.
The point make with that word is that God has chosen a particular people from before the foundation of the world, the are His elect, and then they are physically born, and at some particular time the Holy Sprite will make that person come spiritually alive, born again, when he does wake up he can spiritually see and hear the word of God, he sees his sin, and he turns around and ask for forgiveness for sinning against God. He is granted faith to believe.
It is all the work of God. But people think that God doesn't do anything. That those who are lost have the power to make themselves spiritually alive. And that they not God, invent faith to believe while lost. Which is nonsense.
---Luke on 3/11/17


Hi David, unmerited favor means we didn't do anything to receive the grace of God. That's really what grace is all about. I didn't deserve it yet God granted it.

I didn't deserve salvation yet God sent his Son to die for me on the cross.

Christ didn't deserve to die for my sins yet he did.

2Cor 5:21 Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

That's grace!!!
---trey on 3/10/17


So that I am not misunderstood concerning the Father's salvation. It is the Father's grace, as His divine influence upon our focus in life that leads us to believe, rely on, adhere to and trust in the finish work of His son. That belief open us to receiving his Spirit. Faith saves only in that it is a steadfast, unwavering confident in the salvation offer through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. That faith is empowered of the Father, by His grace, through the indwelling presence of His Spirit, and our righteousness is of Him.
---josef on 3/10/17


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David, if grace is unmerited then the man at the marriage feast without a robe of righteousness would not have been kicked out into outer darkness. Grace and faith would have covered him. His invitation was a counterfeit. He did not enter in through the Door but climbed up another way.

Those who entered in through the Door received the true invitation from the King, knew what to wear and came clothed in their robes of righteousness.

In other words the righteous followed the instructions on the wedding invitation from the King and the man who expected to pick up his robe when he got there got his information elsewhere.
---barb on 3/10/17


"How would you folks define it?"
A man does nothing praiseworthy, to deserve grace for salvation.
---josef on 3/10/17


"Unmerited", for some people, means Jesus died for us while we were His enemies . . . not at all deserving of Him. So, there is no way we could get ourselves to do what makes us deserving of salvation through Jesus.

My take is, our Apostle Paul says "we all" were "children of wrath", in Ephesians 2:3. If this means "all" have been equal by "all" being "children of wrath", then no one has been somehow superior to others so that that one could do what makes him or her deserving of salvation.

And so, the thanks and credit and glory are purely to God > Romans 6:17.
---Bill on 3/10/17


Great answers, and I thank each of you for them. But I guess my confusion comes from the word "Unmerited", and how folks defines it.

I don't believe the Grace by which we are saved is unmerited, but perhaps the reason I don't understand those who do see it as unmerited, is because we define the word differently.

I believe the word "Unmerited" means that nothing is required of us to be saved. How would you folks define it?
---David on 3/10/17


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Concerning how God chooses:

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,) (KJV)

God does his will. He doesn't think like we do. He is not a flawed man. He is a perfect God and he doesn't have to answer to us.
---trey on 3/9/17


This is what is called a teaching parable. What is being shown, many were called to attend the wedding, but some who were invited gave excuse's as why they couldn't come. What Christ is showing in this parable is that God has invited all persons but only a few came. Bottom line: a lot of folks have been told about Christ's saving ability, but only a few accept His invitation that will give them a position in heaven.
---WIVV on 3/9/17


"As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" David I believe the chosen are chosen for the same reason, they receive, or yield themselves to the call.
---josef on 3/9/17


God is past finding out. His overall objective is to have many children who are like His Son Jesus > Romans 8:29.

There are people who believe that saying means many are called to ministry but not all will obey. And so, they feel it does not contradict free will.

In any case, I believe God is first about how much He enjoys His Son Jesus, and so He desires to have many like Jesus. So, we love Him by seeking how He changes us to become and love like Jesus (c:
---Bill on 3/9/17


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