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Ten Commandments Historical

Most Christian denominations have historically held the Ten Commandments as being binding on Christians. Many Christians today do not agree. Why? What changed?

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 ---Jerry6593 on 3/25/17
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//We see those who practice religion yet in the Moffia, the most dishonest ...murders, earn money through drugs and prostitution etc, never see the curses of the OT law inflicted upon them.//

WHAT?

BTW, I think you meant to say Mafia and it isn't a religion.

They are killing each other and most are NOT Christians. The Russian Mafia, Asian, Italian, Irish Mafia and the rest.

All of them are going to HELL if they don't repent.

Since when does one's eternal fate is determined according to their earthly fate?

Matthew 19:23 Luke 16:19-31

//Today, man will be judged on whether they receive Jesus Christ or not.---kathr4453

Millions die without the opportunity of accepting Jesus. - Saudi Arabia.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/22/17


Kathr, Israel committed themselves to God's covenant and to the keeping of the ten commandments, "speak thou unto us all that the Lord our God shall speak and we will hear it and do it". Duet 5:22-33. Most of the people who break God's law today have not committed themselves to the keeping of His commandments, therefore the curse and the blessing of the law does not apply to them until or unless they make the decision to keep God's covenant. We should not envy their prosperity in this world because it will not be eternal. Read Malachi 3:14-18.

Satan uses the prosperity of his conquests to deceive the world and prolong his rule.
---barb on 4/22/17


All we have to do is look around and see that the curses in the OT are not consistently activated today when we see people break all those laws and ordinances. If this applies to ALL MEN EVERYWHERE, why do we see so many seem to have great prosperity and have earned it dishonestly? Some do get away with it, yet some do not. We see those who practice religion yet in the Moffia, the most dishonest ...murders, earn money through drugs and prostitution etc, never see the curses of the OT law inflicted upon them.

Today, man will be judged on whether they receive Jesus Christ or not.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/17


Michael_e,

Right on my friend... right on...

Law teaching is holding Christians back a grade. In Gods plan we live in the time of graduation. The law was useful in its function as a schoolmaster, but only as it helps us to graduate into Christ.(Rom 8:3-4).
Our identity as Christians depends on our position in Christ by faith not by our obedience to the law.
---michael_e on 4/8/17




---john9346 on 4/22/17


John, Jesus fulfilled the Law by overcoming sin. Sin is transgression of the Law. We also must overcome as He did. Rev 3:21. Jesus was perfect and He must have thought that humanity could also attain perfection because He said "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that God was playing some sort of cat and mouse game with Israel and that He commanded them to keep His Law, knowing it was impossible for them to do so. God will have a Kingdom at the end of time who keep His commandments and have the testimony of Jesus. Rev 12:17, Dan 2:44.

---barb on 4/22/17




Barb states, "do you understand that the curse is not on the Law but on the people who do Not keep it?"

Absolutely, because no one can keep the law because you have to be perfect and no one is or will ever be perfect...

Only the Lord Jesus Christ who is God was able to keep the law because he is God and only by looking to him can mankind be saved... not the Ten Commandments of the Mosaic Law which was fulfilled in Christ alone...
---john9346 on 4/21/17


Barb ask, "Do you know that the ten commandments is God's covenant with His people."

Ma'am, the Ten Commandments are apart of the Mosaic Law which was fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ see Matt 5:17-20... The "Covenant People." were "Israel."not a particular Church Denomination.
---john9346 on 4/21/17


John, I read those curses on law breakers that you brought forward and found most of them to be included as not to do's in the 10 commandments and the others are common sense rules which no true follower of Jesus would perform.

Do you know that the ten commandments is God's covenant with His people and do you understand that the curse is not on the Law but on the people who do Not keep it?

"And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even ten commandments, and He wrote them on two tables of stone." Duet 4:13.
---barb on 4/21/17


Jerry:

First, according to the Mosaic Law everyone has broken the TenCommandments and if you break 1 you are guilty of breaking them all... resulting in being cursed...

The Lord Jesus Christ lets us know that he fulfilled the Mosaic Law Matt 5:17-20

Yes, the Mosaic Law was and is a schoolmaster to show us sin, but because of the Lord Jesus we are now under grace and the schoolmaster has been fulfilled...
---john9346 on 4/21/17


If one takes the time to reads what the Holy Spirit had Moses to write before ch 28 ofDeut 28 it states:

"Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen." Deut 27:26.

Please note what Moses states, "Cursed be he that confirmeth not all." "Not just the Ten Commandments, but all."

The Holy Spirit had Paul to state this again in Gal 3:10
---john9346 on 4/21/17




Barb, because those blessings and cursings included the LAND only given to Israel. Since Israel was no longer a Nation who's capital was exclusively Jerusalem , and since all,the tribes were scattered all over the known world at that time.....the blessings and cursings given to Israel UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES, went into effect when Israel was scattered........a curse........And these B and C were never given to Gentiles before or after the cross. These were EARTHLY BLESSINGS.

Today, we are blessed with ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY PLACES.

Why do those who think they are under the law NEVER talk about their HEAVENLY BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS...a far superior place indeed.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/17


What most people don't understand is that God cursed those who would Not keep His commandments but blessed those who would. Take the time to read Duet 28 from the beginning to the end.

Why doesn't Paul ever mention the blessing God gave to those who keep His commandments?

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev. 22:14-15.
---barb on 4/21/17


john & riolin: What denominations are you that teach disobedience to the Law?

Jesus says:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If there were no Law, then there would be no sin (1John 3:4). If there is no sin, then there is no need for a Savoir. Maybe you don't need Jesus, but I do.



---Jerry6593 on 4/21/17


riolion states, "No matter how hard you try to obey all the 10 commandments all the time, you will fail."

Amen...

and to add if you try to keep the Ten Commandments and fail you are cursed...

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:10
---john9346 on 4/20/17


True love forbids breaking the Ten Commandments.

Not true!!!!!

The righteousness the Christian has is that imputed to him or her at the moment of regeneration. Our works and obedience to law really do not count as the righteous live by faith in the finish work of Christ. Of course this is something Sabbath keepers and other legalists are incapable of understanding.

With the new nature the Christians acquires the desire to obey the Lord and we are disciplined by our loving Father so that we will obey.

No matter how hard you try to obey all the 10 commandments all the time, you will fail.(James 2:10)
But those that walk by faith will have the grace that God provides for their walk and salvation.
---riolion on 4/20/17


samuel states, "No John. Sister White never says we can earn salvation. But if a person live in sin without repentance. They are not saved."



"Man, who has defaced the image of God in his soul by a corrupt life, cannot, by mere human effort, effect a radical change in himself. He must accept the provisions of the gospel, he must be reconciled to God "Through obedience to His law." and faith in Jesus Christ."

Note, "Obedience to his law." to be reconciled to God.
---john9346 on 4/20/17


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Samuel my friend,

Mankind is reconciled to God by faith in "Christ Alone."... see, Rom 3:10-28, Rom 5:1, Eph 2:1-9, and Gal 3:1-14
---john9346 on 4/20/17


Samuelbb7:

You wrote: So what is the big difference? I know does anyone else know this doctrine?

The difference is that in judgement, as it is universally understood, the one who is judged stands before the one who is doing the judging, evidence is weighed, and a sentence is proclaimed. It's all done face to face, and in real time. There is no matter of some unseen judge, sitting around in some hidden place, mulling over evidence for hundreds of years, while the one being judged sits around, gets old, and dies, without the judgment ever actually being rendered. The ONLY people who believe in the latter model are the SDA.
---StrongAxe on 4/20/17


No John. Sister White never says we can earn salvation. But if a person live in sin without repentance. They are not saved.

As has been stated. Those who are saved will live saved.

Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His. "With His stripes we are healed." {Desire of Ages, page 25
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/17


True love forbids breaking the Ten Commandments. Love of GOD and love of others. But some insist that love does allow people to break the commandments.

True we teach a time for the investigative judgment. Others don't call it that. They call it the Bema judgment seat. They are similar in that both say all Christians will face judgment just like the Bible says.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

So what is the big difference? I know does anyone else know this doctrine?

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/17


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Jerry6593 said, "NOT SO! I am a Sabbath keeper and I don't believe that obedience to the Law earns salvation."

Sir, are you aware that Ellen G. White taught "Obedience." to the Ten Commandments for salvation??
---john9346 on 4/17/17


Jerry6593:

Loving your neighbor does NOT nullify 10C, just makes them unnecessary. E.g. if you believe stealing is wrong, don't need explicit rules to not steal money, not steal cars, not steal food, etc.

Claiming to love someone by killing them is no more legitimate than medieval inquisitors believing that torturing sinners to death to encourage repentance was God's will.

You are so RIGHT ON!

WHICH sins would those be, that 10C prohibits, but "Love your neighbor" permits?

Investigative Judgment (that only SDAs believe) is retconning why Jesus did not return in 1844. He has had 2000 years to judge. Why would he wait 1800 years and then "return" from one part of heaven to another?
---StrongAxe on 4/17/17


David: "I guess the Law is for everyone else, but not for them."

Your logic is hard to argue against. Some claim that all they need do is "love" their neighbors, and that nullifies the Ten Commandments. But some murderers claim to "love" their victims, and many adulterers do as well.



Nicole: "because they want to excuse their sins"

You are so RIGHT ON!



riolin: The Investigative Judgement is a BIBLICAL doctrine (Dan 7:9,10, Jas 2:12), and there's nothing "egregious" about the Bible.



---Jerry6593 on 4/17/17


Jerry, because they want to make excuses to sin.

Note these same Christians want their neighbor to practice the Ten Commandments when it refers to them.

They don't want anyone sleep with their spouse, steal their stuff or lie to them.

Unfortunately this applies to God as well.

They don't want God to curse their name.

They don't want God to forget their birthday so they can live another day.

They don't want God to disrespect them.

But God better not expect anything from them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/16/17


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To be honest Jerry, it's always puzzled me why folks who claim were not under the Law, fight to keep the Law. I guess the Law is for everyone else, but not for them.
---David on 4/14/17


Jerrry I am a Sabbath keeper and I don't believe that obedience to the Law earns salvation.

You need to review the most egregious doctrine held by the SDA church, namely their Investigative Judgment. A lot of SDA pastors have left the denominations because this doctrine does indeed reflect salvation by keeping the law, gespecially those laws as the 4th commandment given ONLY to the Jewish nation.
---riolion on 4/13/17


Romans 3:31 - Do we then make the Law though Faith ? God forbid: yea, we establish the Law ,

Romans 6:15 - What then shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace , God forbid,

Colossians 3:5 - Mortify therefore your member which are upon the earth, fornication, uncleanness, inordinate, affection ,evil concupiscence , and covetousness, which is idolatry ,

Colossians 3:6 - For these things sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience,

Romans 1:1 ----------> 32
---RichardC on 4/11/17


\\(Steveng: How is fornication "unnatural"? Since animals don't marry, 99.9999% species on the planet reproduce only that way)\\

There are some species that mate for life, mostly among birds. Frequently these will form same-sex pairs, such as mynahs. I'm inclined to think of this as a survival strategy more than what we understand the same behavior among human beings.

Some primates indulge in same gender intimate behavior, but I will say no more. Look it up for yourself if you like.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/17


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Samuelbb7:

I heve never maintained that because we are no longer under the Law, we are free to lie, cheat, steal and murder "because I don't want to live like Jesus" - . Anyone who follows his Two Commandments ALREADY refrains from these things WITHOUT needing to be told each one specifically.

When we are children, we are given rules like "don't play in the street" and "don't put a fork in the toaster". As adults, we no longer NEED those rules because we ALREADY know not to do those things, and why.

(Steveng: How is fornication "unnatural"? Since animals don't marry, 99.9999% species on the planet reproduce only that way).
---StrongAxe on 4/11/17


The law of God is holy, just, and good. It is perfect, a reflection of Gods holiness. Yet, it is the last thing you want in front of you at the final judgment.
The purpose of the law is to expose sin. Sin deserves death and that means you lose at the judgment. Being subject to it will only hurt you not help you because you are part of sinful humanity.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
---michael_e on 4/11/17


Hi Samuel,
Good to see you here.

You wrote "...GOD which also means Jesus wrote them on stone."

In 2 Cor 3:3 "...written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."

How would you explain?

I think the whole chapter is beneficial.
---Chria9396 on 4/11/17


While there were some long ago who always wanted to get rid of the Ten Commandments since they didn't want to live like Jesus.

Today some believe they live more like Jesus when they don't think or follow the Ten Commandments. But that does not make sense since GOD which also means Jesus wrote them on stone.

In Matthew 5 Jesus uplifted the Ten Commandments and pointed out they applied to thoughts and the heart.

Hebrews says GOD will write his laws in our hearts.

Dispensationalism started the teaching of the Ten Commandments being done away with. That was in the 1900's. It has become very popular.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/10/17


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May I add that what Stepheng condemned as "unnatural" are certainly natural to those who have a penchant for them.

As StrongAxe pointed out, many parts of our bodies have more than one function. For example, did you our kidneys regulate our blood pressure?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/10/17


Steveng:

Who defines what is natural and what isn't? One thing that is apparent from the design of human beings (and other living things) is that they are extremely adaptible, and many parts are used for multiple purposes. As the joke goes, "The human body must have been designed by a civil engineer. Who else would run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?". The mouth is used for eating, breathing, speaking, kissing, and (if you're careful), opening bottles.

Besides, opening a jar of pickles with your toes probably isn't natural either, but there's no biblical prohibition against it.

The question was - are we forbidden those things Cluny mentioned, and if so, what biblical reason can you give for why?
---StrongAxe on 4/10/17


Here are the graduates of God's class, "And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17, Rev 14:1-5, Matt 13:40-43.

The graduates taught by the Holy Spirit will not have to walk the aisle to show their diplomas because God will see it written in their hearts and in their minds. Jeremiah 31:33, Matt 13:43.
---barb on 4/9/17


Law teaching is holding Christians back a grade. In Gods plan we live in the time of graduation. The law was useful in its function as a schoolmaster, but only as it helps us to graduate into Christ.(Rom 8:3-4).
Our identity as Christians depends on our position in Christ by faith not by our obedience to the law. Liberty from the law is not good for building funds and pastors paychecks, but it will help you advance in your knowledge of Gods will. It is about time we grew up and saw real change in our spiritual growth.

If you are under a law schoolmaster in your church, then show your diploma of the cross and walk the aisle.
---michael_e on 4/8/17


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To live righteously is to do justice to others.

Those who follow Jesus are supposed to live for him. Why? Because they have been Born Again and are created for good works. So when we love GOD we keep the first four Commandments. When we love our neighbor we keep the last six. Romans 13 even says love keeps the law.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/7/17


\\In Spanish, the word for "righteousness" is "justicia" - i.e. "righteousness" and "justice" use the same word.\\

Likewise in Latin (justitia), Greek (dikaiosynis), and Slavonic (sorry, but I can't think of the word).

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/7/17


riolin: "In the Sabbath keepers belief, one must keep the law - exp. the 10 commandments to be saved."

NOT SO! I am a Sabbath keeper and I don't believe that obedience to the Law earns salvation. It is only by God's grace and Christ's infinite sacrifice for me that I have a chance to be saved. Because of Christ's love for me, I love Him enough to honor Him by obedience to His Ten Commandment Law. How does disobedience to His Law honor Him? He said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 2:3,4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


---Jerry6593 on 4/7/17


barb:

Note that in Rev. 22:7-21 that you quoted, righteousness is opposed to injustice, indicating that the two are opposites.

In Spanish, the word for "righteousness" is "justicia" - i.e. "righteousness" and "justice" use the same word. Even if we don't have a good idea of what "righteousness" means, as it's a word not used much these days except when quoting the Bible, we should all have a fairly good idea of what "justice" means.
---StrongAxe on 4/6/17


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"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for They Shall Be Filled." Matt 5:6.

What is righteousness? It is doing what is right in God's sight. It is not bragging or glorying in one's own righteous acts but following Jesus who fulfilled all righteousness and showed us how to do the same. Matt 3:13-17.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still, and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still, and he that is holy, let him be holy still." Rev. 22:7-21.
---barb on 4/6/17


In the Sabbath keepers belief, one must keep the law - exp. the 10 commandments to be saved. But they ignore the fact that salvation is by grace alone, not by works of the law. What they really try to do is to establish a righteousness of their own. and in that they are really spiritually blind.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
---riolion on 4/6/17


barb: Well said! How sad that many Christians think that Jesus came to save them from HIS Law rather than from their SINS (the transgression of His Law). If only these Christians would check the history of their respective denominations, they would find that their forebears did indeed promote the keeping of the Ten Commandments.

As for the deceptive deflection of the topic to legalism, some education is apparently needed. The Pharisees were not legalistic for keeping GOD'S Commandments, but rather for their insistence on keeping MAN'S commandments. This defiance of God's Law while substituting man-made variants such as "grace destroys Law" or "love is all you need" is indeed legalism.


---Jerry6593 on 4/6/17


"Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps His covenant and His loving kindness to a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments". Duet 7:9. At the very least a thousand generations would be 20,000 years. Jesus teaches the same words in John 14:21-26 regarding the commandments.

Did the eyewitness apostles believe that Jesus left behind a mystery in regard to salvation? John 15:15, 1st John 5:2-5.

Where does Jesus teach we are delivered from the law or that the ten commandments cannot be kept? Certainly not in Matt 5, Matt 19 or anywhere in the book of Revelation.
---barb on 4/5/17


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\\(Although you apparently agree with the Catholic Pope that he has the power to change God's law.)\\

i don't know where you got that idea.

And I think that Antinomian means other than how you are using it here, but I'll let others argue that point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/5/17


How about YOUR denomination, is it traditional or Antinomian?
---Jerry6593 on 4/5/17

Your question is flawed.

Your question needs to be:

How about YOUR denomination, is it Legalistic, traditional, or Antinomian?

Your denomination is legalistic. In Theopedia, legalistic is defined as: "to an improper fixation on law or codes of conduct for a person to merit or obtain salvation, blessing from God, or fellowship with God, with an attendant misunderstanding of the grace of God"

Sound familiar?
---Mark_Eaton on 4/5/17


When Jesus boiled it down to two, we still fall short.
Matt 22:37 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Have you done this with every breath youve ever taken? If not you are guilty of all (James 2:10). We have all broken that one.(Rom 3:10)
But the meaning of the cross was revealed to Paul who explained the mystery of Christ (Eph 2:15 Rom 3:22)
Having put your faith in Gods grace provided by the blood of Christ, you are delivered from the law, and the wrath of God.
When you see the Ten Commandments remember ten was too much. You failed to do just one. Commandments can't save you, it's Gods grace through faith. (Eph 2:8-9 Rom 4:5)
---michael_e on 4/5/17


No one has yet addressed the core blog questions of the fundamental shift in denominational doctrine from adherence to the Ten Commandments to Antinomianism - the belief that Christians are exempt from the Law.

How about YOUR denomination, is it traditional or Antinomian?



---Jerry6593 on 4/5/17


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The NT Christians were mostly Jews, and no differences were recorded.

Romans was written to non-Jewish pagans.
---StrongAxe on 4/1/17

Romans was written to the "divorced/put away "House of Israel".
Gentile was never a word used by any prophet or apostle. They used"ethnos" or "nation" implying the ethnos or nation/s of Israel for most part.
Read the verse preceding these: Rom 11:26 so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, ...
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them,....

New covenant laws: Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
---Trav on 4/4/17


Cluny: "I'm railing against YOU, though sometimes you seem to confuse yourself with God."

You are really losing your grip on sanity. I never claimed to have written the Ten Commandments. God wrote them. He claims them.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep MY commandments.

Why do you rail so against God's Decalogue? Your Orthodox Denomination certifies the 10C. (Although you apparently agree with the Catholic Pope that he has the power to change God's law.)


Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ - the Author of the Ten Commandments.



---Jerry6593 on 4/4/17


Can anyone explain this verse in Matt 22:40, "On these two commandments hang/depend all the law and the prophets?"

And these words that Jesus, after His death and resurrection gave His angel to give to John, "And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" Rev 12:17 and "Here is the patience of the saints, here are they who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12. Jesus doesn't seem to know that He has done it for them. Why?
---barb on 4/3/17


\\Why do you rail so against God's Decalogue?\\

I'm not. I'm railing against YOU, though sometimes you seem to confuse yourself with God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/3/17


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Cluny: "But they are NOT found in the Deecalogue [sic], and you are insistent that this is ALL the Bible means by "the Law"."

You are losing it. I have told you before that are several meanings of "the law", ranging from the writings of Moses to the pull of the carnal nature. Christ Himself declares that the Decalogue is summarized by the two (OT) Love Laws. He personally certifies the Decalogue in Mat 5.

Why do you rail so against God's Decalogue? Your Orthodox Denomination certifies the 10C. (Although you apparently agree with the Catholic Pope that he has the power to change God's law.


Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ - the Author of the Ten Commandments.



---Jerry6593 on 4/3/17


Cluny wrote: "Since simple fornication or intimate acts between two men or two women are not mentioned in any giving of the Decalogue, are they likewise forbidden?

If so, why?"

Because the acts are not natural. Every orifice of the body has a certain function as God made us. People shouldn't use every orifice of the body for sexual pleasure.
---Steveng on 4/2/17


]]The NT Christians were mostly Jews, and no differences were recorded. \\

Is Acts 15 in your Bible?

\\The New Covenant and the two summary Love Laws are found in the OT and are quoted in the New. ]]

But they are NOT found in the Deecalogue, and you are insistent that this is ALL the Bible means by "the Law".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/2/17


Jerry6593:

Proverbs 28:4,9 both apply to people who are under the law in the first place, but then later turn away from it. They do not apply to people who are not under the law in the first place.

The concept that the rules for OT folks (or Jews) is different than those for us NT Christians is a false one. The NT Christians were mostly Jews, and no differences were recorded.

Romans was written to non-Jewish pagans. I ask again for the third time: If the law applied to gentile Christians, why were they ONLY told to refrain from fornication, blood, and meat sacrificed to idols, and not the rest of the law?

I also see you didn't answer Cluny's question.
---StrongAxe on 4/1/17


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Pro 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.

Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.


The concept that the rules for OT folks (or Jews) is different than those for us NT Christians is a false one. The NT Christians were mostly Jews, and no differences were recorded. The New Covenant and the two summary Love Laws are found in the OT and are quoted in the New. Jesus is indeed the Creator God who never changes found in the OT as well as the NT.

So why do so many dismiss Him and His Laws?


---Jerry6593 on 4/1/17


barb:

Paul taught us that NOBODY is capable of keeping the commandments perfectly, so if we rely on our ability to keep the commandments to justify ourselves, we are lost. Grace means that God saves us DESPITE the fact that we cannot perfectly keep his commandments.
---StrongAxe on 4/1/17


"The answer was and is to keep the commandments of God." Yes Barb, and "this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." They are summed up in this, to love Him, and to love our fellow man. That is a love that He empowers, and that empowerment is by His grace. But remember as concerning the law, "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." That law would make the salvation of man very precarious If not for His grace. Jesus spoke to the rich man as one under the requirements of the law
---josef on 4/1/17


Jerry, the doctrine Jesus taught was not saved by grace through faith and staying within His doctrine was important to Jesus. John 7:16-19, 2nd John 8-10. The truth given to us in His Testimony is what sanctifies us and cleanses us from our sins when we repent. John 17:17, John 15:1-8, 1st John 1:1-10.

Jesus never uttered the words you are saved by grace through faith, not during His time on earth or after His resurrection nor will you find it in the book of Revelation. In fact Jesus sent His disciples out to all Nations to teach them to observe all things that He, Jesus had commanded/ taught them. Matt. 28:18-20.
---barb on 4/1/17


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Josef, the answer is in John 3 and please read beyond verses 16 and 17.

Jesus told the rich young man in Matt. 19 that the way to enter into life was to keep the commandments of God and follow Him. The young man went away because his worldly riches were more important to him than following Jesus. Jesus let him go. He did not go after him to explain grace which would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to do so if in fact grace could save anyone. The answer was and is to keep the commandments of God and follow Him. John 10:1-5. To follow Him we abide in His Word. John 14:23-24.
---barb on 3/31/17


James:

It's not rejecting scripture, but rather determining their applicable context. Jews under the OT were under the Law. Christians are not. So, when examining OT law, it is important to determine what parts of that law apply to us, and which don't.

My (not popular) perspective is that 10C are part of the Law, which doesn't apply to Christians (since we are under a new and different covenant). However, "love God and love your neighbor" are teachings of Jesus, and still apply.

We are not forbidden because of 10C (as it doesn't apply to us), but as it violates "love your neighbor", murder IS forbidden (as are adultery, theft, perjury, and everything else in the 10C other than sabbath breaking.)
---StrongAxe on 3/31/17


Since simple fornication or intimate acts between two men or two women are not mentioned in any giving of the Decalogue, are they likewise forbidden?

If so, why?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/31/17


barb: How do you get around this?

Eph 2:8 For by GRACE are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Personally, I know that I am a sinner by having broken some of the Ten Commandments in the past. Thus, I rightly deserve eternal death as stated in Scripture. However, Jesus "graciously" offers me pardon through His substitutionary death on the Cross. His mercy (grace) is my only hope. I therefore keep His Commandments because I love Him for taking my place in the second death.


---Jerry6593 on 3/31/17


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"I agree, Jerry. Now, you may not agree with me but I believe that saved by grace is the greatest lie ever told." Barb how else can one be saved, If not by grace?
---josef on 3/30/17


I like the chain of events so far in this thread....

1) a question is asked which cannot be substantiated in Scripture

2) correction is given, and the pertinent scriptures are quoted

3) the scriptures are rejected
---James on 3/30/17


I agree, Jerry. Now, you may not agree with me but I believe that saved by grace is the greatest lie ever told.

God's plan for salvation has not changed. It is the same plan He gave to Moses and the same one He gave His Son to teach to the world. We can see in the book of Revelation the difference between those who are inside the gates of the Kingdom and those who are outside. Those inside are born of the Holy Spirit, keep God's commandments and have the same testimony as Jesus. Those outside are transgressors of the Law.
---barb on 3/30/17


faith: "The 10 comm. Law was for the Jews"

Apparently, they were for Christians as well, as Jesus and ALL of His disciples kept them for hundreds of years until apostasy in the church began to change them. Jesus, in His Revelation to the Apostle John, certified that the end-time church - the Remnant - would keep the Commandments of God.

They are still esteemed in the writings of most major denominations, but sadly, some modern clerics disdain them.

The Ten Commandments will be relevant as long as sin lasts, because they define sin.



---Jerry6593 on 3/30/17


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joseph, Amen!
Bill, good post.
I like the others as well.
Now lets see what our legalist friends have to say.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 3:2-3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---micha9344 on 3/29/17


The law was not only for the jews. The law was before israel became a people. The law was, is and ever shall be without end. The law was from the beginning and will continue in the thousand year reign of Christ. The sabbath, for instance, was established on the seventh day of creation, God sanctified it, and told Moses to have his people "remember" it.

God chose the jewish people to bring God's word to the world. They failed thinking it was only for them.
---Steveng on 3/29/17


The law illustrated many principles/precepts of good and proper living (He doesn't want us to be the kind of person who needs to be TOLD what to do, He wants us to be LOVERS OF GOODNESS..),we are to walk in LIBERTY (James 1:25 and 2:12).

Psa 119:4 and I shall walk at liberty, for I have sought thy precepts.



So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

Titus 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, master of himself, upright, holy, and self-controlled,

The 10 comm. Law was for the Jews who sought circumcision (they are NOT for us, we shall only KEEP the PRECEPTS/principles illustrated/outlined by them.

Verses are from the RSV.)
---faithforfaith on 3/27/17


Ones have talked about the Ten Commandments, but they do not give at least as much attention to our

Two Love Commandments,

which Jesus says are the greatest commandments. So, who has decided to call so much attention elsewhere?

Possibly, Jerry, nothing has really changed, but the public competing for attention has changed while the Love Commandment people have always been quietly and humbly . . . loving (c:
---Bill on 3/27/17


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If you love God then keep his commandments.

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law.

Jesus said, But why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and not do the things which I say?

What changed? The love of many waxed cold. Love has practically evaporated from the face of the world.
---Steveng on 3/27/17


"Most Christian denominations have historically held the Ten Commandments as being binding on Christians. Many Christians today do not agree. Why? What changed?" Enlightenment, for those who understand. "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,..." 1Ti 1:9 And that "whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,.." Rom 3:19 "The law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24,25
---joseph on 3/27/17


Oh! Are you going to talk about the Saturday Sabbath for a change, Jerry?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/25/17


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