ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

The Power Of The Law

What role do you believe, "The Law", plays in our lives, taking into consideration Paul's use of the Law in (Romans 7:10 & 11)?

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---David on 4/19/17
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



Barb Peter approves of the Episteles Paul wrote. Also in Galatians Peter takes a rebuke from Paul.

So yes the same person wrote both.

What Peter is worrying about is seen from the rest of the letter. That People will use the words of Paul to live in sin and think it is okay.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/19/17


David, I honestly don't know if the same person wrote 1st and 2nd Peter. I'm not an expert on ancient writings but I do know that the writer of 2nd Peter does not witness to the apostleship of Paul, although he calls him a beloved brother, he does not call him an apostle of Jesus.

Did some people impersonate others in the bible or tamper with their writings? Could that be why God gave fair warning not to do so with the book of prophecy called Revelation? Rev. 22:18-20. I believe so.

There is an interesting conversation that Jesus has with Peter in John 21:14-23. He tells Peter that others would carry him where he would not want to go....
---barb on 6/19/17


"A fool gets his knowledge from man, the wise....from God." Exactly. That is why my teacher is the Holy Spirit and not Paul. John 14:26.---barb

Barb
For me, the Bible gives confirmation, what I am taught, is from Gods Holy Spirit. I have never read anything Paul wrote, that's against what I have heard. Though,...I do wish Paul could have made his Grace teachings a bit more elementary.

I have a love/hate relationship with Paul's epistles. I love them for the mature believer, but hate for them to be in the hands of the immature believer. Those who've make Grace a license to sin.

After reading 1st and 2nd Peter again, they appear to be written by the same person. Do you believe Simon wrote 1st Peter?
---David on 6/19/17


David: "it's clear the personality of the writer of Hebrews is different from the one who wrote Paul's epistles."

I disagree. The intended audience is different. Hebrews is a scholarly treatise written to educated Hebrews by a Pharisee about the Melchisedec vs. the Levitical Priesthood. Paul's letters to the Churches were intended largely for uneducated, newly-converted Gentiles. Naturally the writing style would be different.

I don't speak the same way to my professional peers as I do to my grandchildren.



---Jerry6593 on 6/19/17


David, you said "A fool gets his knowledge from man, the wise....from God." Exactly. That is why my teacher is the Holy Spirit and not Paul. John 14:26.
---barb on 6/18/17




David, thanks for your kind and gentle response.

2nd Peter was most likely not written by Peter. You can check that out for yourself and some scholars believe it was tampered with.---barb


Barb
Your very welcome.
Scholars make me wince, for I see fools, where others see wisdom. A fool gets his knowledge from man, the wise.....from God.

You could be right about second Peter. Personalities can be seen in the writings, as you can see on CN. Folks can change their names, but their writing style identifies them much like their signature.

I'll read first and second Peter today, to see for myself, if the writing styles are the same.
---David on 6/17/17


"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." John 5:31-38. God requires 2 or 3 witnesses. Paul can not be his own witness.

Paul admits to lying at least twice so I don't think I'm being harsh to say he tells falsehoods for he wrote to the Corinthians that "being crafty, I deceived you with a lie" and to the Romans "if through my lie God's truth abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?" Really? Does lying ever bring glory to God?

And who calls himself an apostle of Jesus Christ on almost every letter he writes if not Paul. Rev 2:2.
---barb on 6/17/17


Barb
I Read through both first and second Peter. I see no difference in the personality of the writer.

My conclusion?
The same person wrote both first and second Peter. So either Peter wrote both, or someone who posed as Peter wrote both.

Many scholars also believe Paul wrote Hebrews, but to me, it's clear the personality of the writer of Hebrews is different from the one who wrote Paul's epistles.

Might be an interesting study to read through all of Paul's Epistles, to see if his writing style remains the same.
---David on 6/17/17


Barb
I Read through both first and second Peter. I see no difference in the personality of the writer.

My conclusion?
The same person wrote both first and second Peter. So either Peter wrote both, or someone who posed as Peter wrote both.

Many scholars also believe Paul wrote Hebrews, but to me, it's clear the personality of the writer of Hebrews is different from the one who wrote Paul's epistles.

Might be an interesting study to read through all of Paul's Epistles, to see if his writing style remains the same.
---David on 6/17/17


barb: "It breaks my heart to see the falsehoods of Paul ...

I must disagree with your characterization of Paul's writings as falsehoods. Paul was indeed a deep, pharisaical scholar, and unfortunately, he wrote as if we readers also were. Even Peter said of Paul's writings:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Few of us here understand Paul's use of the term "the Law". It could have many meanings - depending on context. But the ONLY Law that changed was that of the sacrificial system.


---Jerry6593 on 6/16/17




It is so true that people change what Paul means. Many read Galatians chapter 1,2. They skip 4 and 5. Where Paul shows that not living under the law means living for GOD. Not living in sin.

Paul mentions to keep 6 of the Ten Commandments.
Romans 13:8,9 Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)
---Samuelbb7 on 6/16/17


David, thanks for your kind and gentle response.

Luke wrote the book of Acts and much of the information given to him would have come from Paul as Paul was his mentor. Paul doesn't have any witnesses to his conversion that he ever brings forward to tell what they saw or heard and at one point he appeals to Cesar rather than bring forward those men on the road with him or Ananias. Why does Paul appeal to Cesar and not God if he is a chosen vessel of Jesus? I could go on but the word limit does not allow it and if you can't see it then nothing I say will change your mind. Matt 13:36-43.

2nd Peter was most likely not written by Peter. You can check that out for yourself and some scholars believe it was tampered with.
---barb on 6/16/17


It breaks my heart to see the falsehoods of Paul meshed together with the words of Light and Truth. John 18:37.---barb

Barb
Paul used a different vernacular than the other writers, not a different doctrine. I love Paul's letters because I understand them. But on the other hand, I hate the way in which those who have no understanding use them to undermine the Gospel of Christ.

I would like to know your thoughts on the book of Acts, where we are given a bit of Paul's biography, which shows he was chosen by God?

Peter also wrote favorably about Paul, and warned us about those who use his teachings, but do not understand them. Do you discount Peters assessment of Paul too?
---David on 6/16/17


Actually, those under "the law of Moses" didn't keep the law out of fear or love because they didn't keep it at all. At one point God wanted to wipe them all out and start over again by making a kingdom from the seed of Moses. Exodus 32:9-10.

John 14:21 does not say anything about salvation thru grace nor does it say no one can keep the commandments of God. It does say that those who keep His commandments are the ones who love Him and that Jesus will reveal Himself to them. The way this works can be seen in John 3:18-21.

It breaks my heart to see the falsehoods of Paul meshed together with the words of Light and Truth. John 18:37.
---barb on 6/15/17


I can understand how confusing it must be for folks, when Paul says, "We are not under Law", and Jesus tells us "God loves those who keep his commandments." How does this seemingly square peg, fit into a round hole?

For many years I fought against a single sin. Oh I had more than one, but God only punished me for this one. I tried to keep this commandment, not because I loved God, but because I lived in fear of Gods punishment.

And that's the difference, it's the reason we live in obedience to God. Those who were under the Law of Moses didn't keep the commandments out of love, they kept them out of fear. When you keep Gods commandments because you love him, that's what brings death to sin.
---David on 6/15/17


Samuel
For many, Paul saying, "We are not under Law, but under Grace", means there is NO Law. Paul repeatedly, throughout his letters, tells us this was not his meaning.

Paul's meaning?
We are saved by Grace, we are saved because God loves us (John 14:21), and not because we keep the Law. We can not be saved by keeping the Law, because no man can keep the Law. What good is the Law?

Like Paul, it was a commandment that caused sin to die in me. It was a commandment I could not keep, though I tried to keep it. Since I tried to keep it, but could not keep it, it showed me that I was a slave to sin (Romans 7). This sin told me I was not saved, as long as that which caused me to sin, lived in me.(John 8:34-35)
---David on 6/13/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


The purpose of the law is easy.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law says for example stealing is a sin. Not stealing is only doing what you are supposed to do. It does not save you or make you a Christian. The law just says this is right and this is wrong.

A Christian not only does not steal but because they love they give. Matthew 5 and 25.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/12/17


Micha
Sorry my friend, my mistake, same question I asked Haz
---David on 6/8/17


-Opposed to David's view that laws are for the obedient.---micha9344

(Romans 2:13) For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Haz
According to the above verse, can you be justified without the Law? If so, tell us how.
---David on 6/8/17


As there is a difference between what Jesus and God said with what David quoted Them as saying, so also there is a difference between my being "not under the Law" and
"not under Gods Laws."
Consider:
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,
-So, despite David's assumption that you need the Law to sin, the Bible says otherwise.
And:
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient...
-Opposed to David's view that laws are for the obedient.
---micha9344 on 6/7/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


Micha
I'm not quite sure as to your objection. Are you confused because of the word commandments, and since you are not under the Law, you have no commandments to keep?

I understand your confusion. You must wonder, "How can I be born of God, and keep his Laws, when I am not under Gods Laws and have no need to keep his commandments?"

I hope your confusion leads you to the Truth.
---David on 6/6/17


I saw those verses, yet they do not say what you have Jesus or God saying.
You even put them in quotes, not just a free translation.
So please let me know if you find the references to your quotes and where I could find them.
Thank you.
---micha9344 on 6/5/17


I'm sorry, David, but I couldn't find the references to either of these statements. Could you please post them for me?---micha9344

Sure can
(John 14:15) If you love me, keep my commandments...
(1 John 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments...
---David on 6/3/17


we do not keep the law because we have to...we keep it because we want to , if we have been reborn.
---brian on 6/3/17


Send a Free Salvation Tract


/And God said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"". And Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments". Looks like the same God to me!!!\-David on 5/25/17
I'm sorry, David, but I couldn't find the references to either of these statements.
Could you please post them for me?
Thank you.
---micha9344 on 6/3/17


Amen David and Jerry.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/25/17


David: It is indeed strange how few Christians realize that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New.--Jerry

Jerry
Good point!
I believe it's because they do not understand "why", God changed the Law. It was changed because...well...if one wishes, they can find this answer in (Hebrews 9).

It's as though folks have come to believe, the New Covenant was not designed to change the ways of man, it was designed to change the ways of God.

And God said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"". And Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments". Looks like the same God to me!!!
---David on 5/25/17


David: It is indeed strange how few Christians realize that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New.



---Jerry6593 on 5/23/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


Good point David and Micha
Amen.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/20/17


Jerry
You got it brother. When you get your teachings from Gods Holy Spirit and not from men, God will show you just how foolish the teachings of men really are. And when the believers, who put their faith in these false doctrines can see the foolishness, you have opened their eyes so they can seek the Truth.

The majority of CN believers, believe they are not under Gods Law. But look how few argue against the evidence we have produced. (Luke 21:15).
---David on 5/20/17


/Why would we need a sacrifice for sin, if we're not under the Law?\-David on 5/19/17
Rom 3:19 ...saith to them who are under the law...all the world may become guilty...
Rom 2:12 ...sinned without law...sinned in the law...
Rom 3:20 ...no flesh be justified...by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 ...dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
---micha9344 on 5/19/17


Isn't Jesus a sacrifice for sin under the NEW Covenant? Isn't it true, where there is no Law, there can be no transgression/ sin?

Why would we need a sacrifice for sin, if we're not under the Law?
---David on 5/19/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


David: Indeed! If the Ten Commandment Law had been abolished, as some claim, then the standard for defining sin is abolished. If the definition of sin is gone, then (by definition) sin is gone also. If we therefore no longer sin because of the nullification of the (10 C) Law, then we have no need of a Savior. Maybe these apostate antinomians don't need Jesus, but I do. Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments in stone with His own finger, and He calls it MY LAW that He puts within our hearts. How dare these pseudochristians call it Moses Law!


---Jerry6593 on 5/19/17


We are under the law of the ten commandments. Jesus makes this clear in Matt 5:17-20, Matt 19:16-26 and Matt 22:35-40. The 10 commandments of God are also the commandments that Jesus kept and the ones He is telling us to keep in John 15.

The ten commandments is the covenant that binds us to God. Duet 4:14.

Paul never met Jesus and according to Paul's own words he learned nothing from Jesus' disciples. Whatever Paul saw out in the desert, it was not Jesus. Matt 24:23-27.
---barb on 5/18/17


While sin is a transgression of the law, we need to define which law we are speaking of - Moral law, civic law, or perhaps the Mosaic law.
If my understanding serves me, we are no longer under the Mosaic law and as such we can light a fire in our homes on the Jewish Sabbath nor do we need to observe laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as observance of the feasts or the Sabbath.
---riolion on 5/18/17


David: Well said!---Jerry

Jerry
It's definitely a hard point to argue against, when one realizes sin is the transgression of the Law. Because everyone who confesses sin or calls themselves a sinner, knowingly or unknowingly puts themselves under the Law of God.

Their very own actions make their argument, stating they are not under Gods Law, indefensible.
---David on 5/17/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


David: Well said!


faith: "Jesus abolished the 10 commandment law (the law of sin)."

Preposterous! Jesus was not lying when He said:

Mat 5:17,18 Think NOT that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am NOT come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I know that you think that ALL has been fulfilled, but as long as there is sin and sinners, ALL has not yet been fulfilled. Besides, I just looked outside, and heaven and earth are still here.


---Jerry6593 on 5/16/17


Faithforth
Paul wrote, "Where there is no Law, there is no Transgression". Which makes perfect sense, in knowing sin is the transgression of the Law. (1 John 3:4)

I hear countless believers claim they are not under Law, and yet profess to be sinners and confess sin before God. How is this possible for those who claim they are not under the Law, when sin is the transgression of the Law?
---David on 5/13/17


If you refuse to live by the new law, then you will be considered to be LAWLESS.

Jesus spoke to the Jews in figures of speech.

John 16:25 said this to you IN FIGURES, the hour is coming when I shall no longer speak to you in figures

Jesus abolished the 10 commandment law (the law of sin).

Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances

2Ti 1:10 who abolished death and brought life

If that is not clear enough(the law of sin caused DEATH).

Heb 2:14 that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

James 1:25 and...

JAMES 2:12 are to be judged under the law of liberty.

All verses are from the RSV.
---faithforfaith on 5/12/17


Jesus fulfilled all of the righteousness of the Jewish faith (told the people what their priests and scriptures said was RIGHT).

Jesus did not come to earth for the specific purpose of abolishing ANYTHING. HOWEVER, He DID ABOLISH the 10 commandment law in His flesh..

Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances,

We are told EXPRESSLY and clearly in scripture what "LAW" we should be abiding by ("law of liberty", James 1:25 and 2:12).

Since we were TAUGHT to abide the law that was ABOLISHED and we NEGLECT to abide by the proper "law", God considers us each to be "LAWLESS".

There is nothing to "OBEY" (as 'duty' to perform).
---faithforfaith on 5/10/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


micha: Speaking of fleshy,

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the CARNAL MIND is enmity against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You claim that you are not subject to the Law of God, so, according to Scripture, you are carnally minded and can't please God.



---Jerry6593 on 5/4/17


I understand that the hard-hearted and stiff-necked have a hard time seeing, so let's go over the basics again as has been many times before to you, Jerry.
The 10C is the "ministration of death written and engraved in stone" (2Co 3:7).
This is also called "the law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2), which is carnal, not spiritual.
This is in opposition to the "perfect law of liberty" (Jam 1:25).
The 10C says "do not", that which we tell children.
In liberty, we have "do", the mature action of someone under authority.
And again 10C - passive, restrictive: Liberty- active, free.
But I know you will reject this because of your doctrines to the contrary.
---micha9344 on 5/3/17


micha: I don't find you're reasoning at all cogent. The 10C Law was never "fleshy", whatever that means. The penalty for its violation is death (according to Paul), and that by blood sacrifice, by the substitutionary death of Jesus, or by the second death of the sinner.

I'll give you an illustration of how Jesus FULFILLED our obligation under the 10C Law by paying its penalty. Say that you ran a stop sign and got a ticket. Your Dad paid the penalty for you and FULFILLED you obligation to the law. But the stop sign law is STILL IN EFFECT, and you would be wise to heed the law in the future.



---Jerry6593 on 5/2/17


/The old priesthood was the levitical order and the "law" spoken of was not the Ten Commandment Law, but rather the law of sacrifices pointing to the future sacrifice of Jesus.\
Heb 7:16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
-The whole law was fleshly. That is why it could not save.
-Disagree? Don't words like murder, steal, and covet sound fleshly to you?
-Jesus came and made Himself a sacrifice for the whole law, not just cherry picked parts of it. And no 19th century false prophetess will change that.
---micha9344 on 5/1/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


David: "Jesus is a new priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, correct?"

That is correct. The old priesthood was the levitical order and the "law" spoken of was not the Ten Commandment Law, but rather the law of sacrifices pointing to the future sacrifice of Jesus. Once Jesus had fulfilled that (Levitical) law on the cross, that order of priesthood was over.


---Jerry6593 on 5/1/17


"But don't you need to defend yourself, if your wrong?
David wrong has no defense, and right needs no defense.
"Do any one of your teachers hold to Paul's testimony?"
I have only one teacher, and Paul's testimony, If it is a statement of truth, was inspired of Him.
" if your wrong, there will be no Eternal Life."
To know the Father and Jesus as the one sent, is eternal life, and this life is in His Son. The Holy Spirit seals me unto the day of redemption. And I know Jesus is able to keep me from falling, and to present me blameless before Him in the glorious presence of the Father. I am entirely comfortable and confident in what I've been given to believe. Are you?
---josef on 4/29/17


I disagree. Heb 7:14 doesn't mention the Law - only the nature of the priesthood (Levitical vs. Melchisedec).--Jerry 4/27

Jerry
My mistake, I meant (Hebrews 7:12).
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law
Jesus is a new priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, correct?
---David on 4/29/17


I abide in Him, and again, in Him there is no sin. Why should I spend my time battling something that I am dead to?--Josef

Josef
But don't you need to defend yourself, if your wrong? For if your wrong, there will be no Eternal Life.

It was Jesus who said, "If you want Eternal Life, Keep the commandments." Please,... I ask you take notice of the commandments Jesus gave in (Matthew 19: 16-19), and the fact that Paul uses one of those very commandments, when he gave his testimony in (Romans 7:7-12).

You say you have died to sin, but does your testimony have anything to do with keeping the commandments? No
Do any one of your teachers hold to Paul's testimony? No
Think about it brother.
---David on 4/29/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


"Josef That's why I hope you wake up, it's because you don't battle sin." David Christ in me, is my hope of glory. I abide in Him, and again, in Him there is no sin. Why should I spend my time battling something that I am dead to? When the Father lead me to His Christ, by His grace I acknowledged myself a sinner in need of His salvation, thus confessing my sin. He then lead me to repentance, as an empowered turn from the kingdom and power of darkness, to the kingdom and power of His dear son, cleansing me from all sin. David this is simply a response to you concerning my position in Christ, and my relationship with the Father. It is not meant as an argument, nor do I feel any need to defend myself. I simply love sharing.
---josef on 4/28/17


I don't battle sin---josef on 4/27/17

Josef
That's why I hope you wake up, it's because you don't battle sin. I got the term "Wake up" from (Revelation 3:2) NIV. Revelation, where Jesus advised every one of the seven churches to "Repent".That's the same advise I give to you.

Jesus Christ was sent to save us from sin, sent as the only acceptable sacrifice for sin. Now if you believe Jesus Christ is the "Lamb of God", sent to save us from sin, wouldn't confession of sin be to the best way to show God you believe in him?
---David on 4/28/17


David what is it about the statement "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?", or any other statement that I've made, that gives you the impression that I need to :o)"wake up"? I don't battle sin, I focus on and embraced the righteousness of God through Christ, for His word abides and endures within me. My hope, is in Christ.
---josef on 4/27/17


"If Sin is in the world, and you still sin, have you overcome the world?"
My belief is as it is written, Jesus has taken away the sins of the world. With the world, as used here, representing the inhabitants of the planet that believe, adheres to, trust in, and relies on, Him. I do believe, without question, that He is the Son of God, referred to, for sins sake, as the lamb of God. I believe Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for sin. Therefore yes David, I know that I have overcome the 'world', as in this sensually based system of things with its rules and adornments. Adornments that entice and seduce the senses, and rules conforming to and dependent upon sensual dictates and passions.
---josef on 4/27/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law tells us what sin is. We are convicted by the law which is a tutor to bring us to Jesus. Galatians.

James also compares the law to a mirror. It shows us the dirt in our lives. But Paul makes sure we know the law tells what sin is.

But it is not the cure. Grace and being Born Again filled with the Holy Spirit is the cure.

Let us look to Jesus. So we will not walk in sin. But live in love. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/27/17


"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" ---josef

Josef
If Sin is in the world, and you still sin, have you overcome the world?

That sin in your life, the one you really battle with, may look like a curse, but it's really a blessing. Haven't you wondered why the sin is still there, after all these years?

It's a blessing, because when the power it had over you, the power which causes you to sin is gone, it's your sign, which tells you, you have been adopted by God, adopted as a son. (1 John 3:10)

Josef, I have a great hope for you, a hope you wake up in time.
---David on 4/27/17


David: "there is No way, you could have received this knowledge from one of the many man made doctrines"

You're right. I got it from the Bible. The Antinomians are politically correct snowflakes, in that they want a trophy for winning the race without ever leaving the starting line.


"Jesus did not take away the Law, he changed it (Hebrews 7:14)."

I disagree. Heb 7:14 doesn't mention the Law - only the nature of the priesthood (Levitical vs. Melchisedec).

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


---Jerry6593 on 4/27/17


Re:"Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." How is this done? "The word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one." How did we overcome? "[We] overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of [our] testimony" Who are we? "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" How is this victory obtained? "Whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith."
---josef on 4/26/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


We must fight the good fight of faith and wrestle against temptation to sin, so that by God's power (Grace) we may become over comers--Jerry

Jerry
You must be speaking from your experience, for there is No way, you could have received this knowledge from one of the many man made doctrines. Their doctrines come from experience too, only their experience comes from those who merely start the race, and not from those who have finished.

They are not taught we are under the Law of Christ, that Law, God puts into their minds and writes on their hearts. When we say Law, they think we refer to the Law God gave Moses, not the Law of Christ (John 1:17).

Jesus did not take away the Law, he changed it (Hebrews 7:14).
---David on 4/26/17


David: I think you are on the right track. Salvation is not completed at the initial acceptance of Jesus. It is just beginning with this Justification - the blotting out of past sins. We must then walk with Jesus the rest of our lives in Sanctification - being made holy. We must fight the good fight of faith and wrestle against temptation to sin, so that by God's power (Grace) we may become overcomers.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



---Jerry6593 on 4/25/17


Josef
It's all about Love, not imagined... but real. Our love for God, and his love for us. Love that can only develop from a daily walk with God. A walk that's impossible, when we go through life with unforgiven sin.

Most believers, unknowingly, go through life separated from God, with only an occasional confession of sin, which can only temporarily restore the light. In this type of relationship, the love for God, needed to break this sin bondage, becomes impossible.

Stay in the light and this relationship will develop. Sin becomes less, when your love for God grows greater than your temptation to sin. Eventually sin dies.
---David on 4/24/17


David: Peter spoke of these lawless interpreters of Paul's writers. He said:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul also wrote:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Either Paul is self-conflicted or these Antinonianists are. I think that Paul is OK, but the pseudoscholars here on CN need educating.

Look to Jesus for your answers. Did He keep the Law? Yes!



---Jerry6593 on 4/24/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


David, by the way, I do believe you, I have no reason not to. What would be the purpose of your lying to me. Who am I. I can take you at your word because I believe, as it is written, the believer can do all thing through Christ, which strengthens them. I believe that with the Father, all things are possible, to them that believe. That's why I said in my previous post, good for you. That wasn't a dig.
---josef on 4/23/17


Here is a verse that may answer your question about the Law:
"Dont assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Matt 5:17-18 (HCSB)

The purpose of The Law is to show us what God requires to obtain salvation, but the only person able to do that was Christ. By accepting Christ as Saviour, a person meets God's requirements to be with Him in heaven. Bottom line: We don't work FOR our salvation but BECAUSE of our salvation. A Christian should say, "What would Christ do in any situation they confront, not what does the Law require?
---WIVV on 4/23/17


David, and I never said you were bragging, I took what you said then, as now, as an explanation of how you overcame sin in an attempt to help me. I understand the concept, It is the love of the Father that has enabled me to accept His word that Jesus took upon Himself the sin of the world, and that His presence in the world signified the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. That their purpose was complete in Him, for those of us who believe. As one regenerated spiritually, and renewed mentally from above, I know that I can not sin because I understand that to sin under the covenant of grace is to miss the mark of my high calling, in Christ. I hit that mark when I, by His love and grace, acknowledged and confessed Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
---josef on 4/23/17


Josef
Believe me,.... though I understand why you may think I'm bragging,.... I don't think of myself more highly than I should. I overcame sin, not because I posess the strength of an Arc Angel, but because I possessed the love a son has for his Father.

You see for many years, I fought against sin as a man would fight against a foe. My strength against his strength, when the true strength against sin, comes from our love for God.

It's kind of like someone in a vain attempt to fight a vampire in a movie. They lose the battle when it's their strength against the vampires strength. When all they really have to do is show them the Cross, or throw open the curtains, and let the light in.
---David on 4/23/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


The Law of Moses helps to expose sin . . . exposing what in me makes me able to sin.

And in the Law I see things which help to show me how God is and how He wants us to love.

For one example > Leviticus 19:18 < this is where our Second Love Commandment is, to love others as ourselves. And in this same verse it says not to hold grudges or seek revenge. So, loving others as myself includes being as willing for others to be forgiven, as I am willing to be forgiven, myself, I can see from this.
---Bill on 4/21/17


But now, we are not under the law which was contrary to us Col 2:10-14. Observing days is weak and beggarly, as is the law Gal 4:9-11, Rom 14:1-7.
---michael_e on 4/21/17


I have not committed that, or any other sin. Good for you David. You have obviously reached a point that the Father has yet to bring me to. Personally Father has shown me not to consider myself more highly than I should. For like the rich man who came to Jesus sincerely believing that he had kept the law, Jesus loving him, gently pointed out to him that as earnestly as he had attempted, and perhaps successfully, kept the letter of the law, he unfortunately failed miserably when it came to the spirit of the law. David I'm not suggesting that you have done the same, I'm simply saying that I know that I have failed. Therefore I look to the faith of Jesus and His atoning sacrifice to justify me, rather than the law, kept or otherwise.
---josef on 4/21/17


(Romans 7:13).....But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good, that sin by the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Josef
I was once given a commandment like the one Paul mentions above. I didn't know why it was there, but it was. When I broke the commandment, God punished me. This went on for many years, but after I started following the Holy Spirit, the sin became exceedingly sinful.

Exceedly to the point, where one day after I sinned, I dropped to my knees in tears, crying like a baby for about and hour, as I sat alone with God, asking God to forgive me. Relief came, and ever since that day, I have not committed that, or any other sin.
---David on 4/21/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


---Samuelbb7 - So the law tells us what is sin and what we should not do. James says the law is like a mirror. It shows us our problems but does not cure them.

Do you limit the law here to the moral law or to the law given by Moses. Say, for instance, do you believe you can break the law about lighting a fire in your home on the Sabbath.

Ex 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

If you impose the Jewish Sabbath onto people, you must also impose how it is to be observed.
---riolion on 4/20/17


We are not under the Law after sin dies, but we are under the Law before sin dies. Paul says the same in (Romans 7:1) David, sin doesn't die, the believer dies to the law, which is sin's strength. How? See (Rom 7:4) "I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For [Father] made [Jesus] who knew no sin to be [the] sin [offering] for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." In our unity with Christ, there is no sin.
---josef on 4/20/17


Correction to previous post, this line should have read, "I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me". The former makes it sound as if I thought I had something to do with this new life, I don't, I simply acquiesce by His grace, and the empowerment of His Spirit.
---josef on 4/20/17


Josef
Great answer!
Did you notice (Galatians 3:23) says, those who need a School Master are Under The Law?

We are not under the Law after sin dies, but we are under the Law before sin dies. Paul says the same in (Romans 7:1).

And how do we know sin has died? (1 John 3:9-10) KJV
So it's True, "We are not under the Law", but it's only true,....of those who have been born of God.
---David on 4/20/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


True the law leads us to Jesus. It tells us we are sinner and need to be saved.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So the law tells us what is sin and what we should not do. James says the law is like a mirror. It shows us our problems but does not cure them.

That takes Grace and the blood of Jesus.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/17


AMEN, Josef.
---Rob on 4/19/17


'What role do you believe, "The Law", plays in our lives.."
"The law was our schoolmaster, instructor, tutor, or guardian to bring or lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Gal 3:24 seems clear to me.
---josef on 4/19/17


Copyright© 2017 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.