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The Power Of The Law

What role do you believe, "The Law", plays in our lives, taking into consideration Paul's use of the Law in (Romans 7:10 & 11)?

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

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 ---David on 4/19/17
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David: It is indeed strange how few Christians realize that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New.



---Jerry6593 on 5/23/17


Good point David and Micha
Amen.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/20/17


Jerry
You got it brother. When you get your teachings from Gods Holy Spirit and not from men, God will show you just how foolish the teachings of men really are. And when the believers, who put their faith in these false doctrines can see the foolishness, you have opened their eyes so they can seek the Truth.

The majority of CN believers, believe they are not under Gods Law. But look how few argue against the evidence we have produced. (Luke 21:15).
---David on 5/20/17


/Why would we need a sacrifice for sin, if we're not under the Law?\-David on 5/19/17
Rom 3:19 ...saith to them who are under the law...all the world may become guilty...
Rom 2:12 ...sinned without law...sinned in the law...
Rom 3:20 ...no flesh be justified...by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 ...dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
---micha9344 on 5/19/17


Isn't Jesus a sacrifice for sin under the NEW Covenant? Isn't it true, where there is no Law, there can be no transgression/ sin?

Why would we need a sacrifice for sin, if we're not under the Law?
---David on 5/19/17




David: Indeed! If the Ten Commandment Law had been abolished, as some claim, then the standard for defining sin is abolished. If the definition of sin is gone, then (by definition) sin is gone also. If we therefore no longer sin because of the nullification of the (10 C) Law, then we have no need of a Savior. Maybe these apostate antinomians don't need Jesus, but I do. Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments in stone with His own finger, and He calls it MY LAW that He puts within our hearts. How dare these pseudochristians call it Moses Law!


---Jerry6593 on 5/19/17


We are under the law of the ten commandments. Jesus makes this clear in Matt 5:17-20, Matt 19:16-26 and Matt 22:35-40. The 10 commandments of God are also the commandments that Jesus kept and the ones He is telling us to keep in John 15.

The ten commandments is the covenant that binds us to God. Duet 4:14.

Paul never met Jesus and according to Paul's own words he learned nothing from Jesus' disciples. Whatever Paul saw out in the desert, it was not Jesus. Matt 24:23-27.
---barb on 5/18/17


While sin is a transgression of the law, we need to define which law we are speaking of - Moral law, civic law, or perhaps the Mosaic law.
If my understanding serves me, we are no longer under the Mosaic law and as such we can light a fire in our homes on the Jewish Sabbath nor do we need to observe laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as observance of the feasts or the Sabbath.
---riolion on 5/18/17


David: Well said!---Jerry

Jerry
It's definitely a hard point to argue against, when one realizes sin is the transgression of the Law. Because everyone who confesses sin or calls themselves a sinner, knowingly or unknowingly puts themselves under the Law of God.

Their very own actions make their argument, stating they are not under Gods Law, indefensible.
---David on 5/17/17


David: Well said!


faith: "Jesus abolished the 10 commandment law (the law of sin)."

Preposterous! Jesus was not lying when He said:

Mat 5:17,18 Think NOT that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am NOT come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I know that you think that ALL has been fulfilled, but as long as there is sin and sinners, ALL has not yet been fulfilled. Besides, I just looked outside, and heaven and earth are still here.


---Jerry6593 on 5/16/17




Faithforth
Paul wrote, "Where there is no Law, there is no Transgression". Which makes perfect sense, in knowing sin is the transgression of the Law. (1 John 3:4)

I hear countless believers claim they are not under Law, and yet profess to be sinners and confess sin before God. How is this possible for those who claim they are not under the Law, when sin is the transgression of the Law?
---David on 5/13/17


If you refuse to live by the new law, then you will be considered to be LAWLESS.

Jesus spoke to the Jews in figures of speech.

John 16:25 said this to you IN FIGURES, the hour is coming when I shall no longer speak to you in figures

Jesus abolished the 10 commandment law (the law of sin).

Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances

2Ti 1:10 who abolished death and brought life

If that is not clear enough(the law of sin caused DEATH).

Heb 2:14 that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

James 1:25 and...

JAMES 2:12 are to be judged under the law of liberty.

All verses are from the RSV.
---faithforfaith on 5/12/17


Jesus fulfilled all of the righteousness of the Jewish faith (told the people what their priests and scriptures said was RIGHT).

Jesus did not come to earth for the specific purpose of abolishing ANYTHING. HOWEVER, He DID ABOLISH the 10 commandment law in His flesh..

Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances,

We are told EXPRESSLY and clearly in scripture what "LAW" we should be abiding by ("law of liberty", James 1:25 and 2:12).

Since we were TAUGHT to abide the law that was ABOLISHED and we NEGLECT to abide by the proper "law", God considers us each to be "LAWLESS".

There is nothing to "OBEY" (as 'duty' to perform).
---faithforfaith on 5/10/17


micha: Speaking of fleshy,

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the CARNAL MIND is enmity against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You claim that you are not subject to the Law of God, so, according to Scripture, you are carnally minded and can't please God.



---Jerry6593 on 5/4/17


I understand that the hard-hearted and stiff-necked have a hard time seeing, so let's go over the basics again as has been many times before to you, Jerry.
The 10C is the "ministration of death written and engraved in stone" (2Co 3:7).
This is also called "the law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2), which is carnal, not spiritual.
This is in opposition to the "perfect law of liberty" (Jam 1:25).
The 10C says "do not", that which we tell children.
In liberty, we have "do", the mature action of someone under authority.
And again 10C - passive, restrictive: Liberty- active, free.
But I know you will reject this because of your doctrines to the contrary.
---micha9344 on 5/3/17


micha: I don't find you're reasoning at all cogent. The 10C Law was never "fleshy", whatever that means. The penalty for its violation is death (according to Paul), and that by blood sacrifice, by the substitutionary death of Jesus, or by the second death of the sinner.

I'll give you an illustration of how Jesus FULFILLED our obligation under the 10C Law by paying its penalty. Say that you ran a stop sign and got a ticket. Your Dad paid the penalty for you and FULFILLED you obligation to the law. But the stop sign law is STILL IN EFFECT, and you would be wise to heed the law in the future.



---Jerry6593 on 5/2/17


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/The old priesthood was the levitical order and the "law" spoken of was not the Ten Commandment Law, but rather the law of sacrifices pointing to the future sacrifice of Jesus.\
Heb 7:16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
-The whole law was fleshly. That is why it could not save.
-Disagree? Don't words like murder, steal, and covet sound fleshly to you?
-Jesus came and made Himself a sacrifice for the whole law, not just cherry picked parts of it. And no 19th century false prophetess will change that.
---micha9344 on 5/1/17


David: "Jesus is a new priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, correct?"

That is correct. The old priesthood was the levitical order and the "law" spoken of was not the Ten Commandment Law, but rather the law of sacrifices pointing to the future sacrifice of Jesus. Once Jesus had fulfilled that (Levitical) law on the cross, that order of priesthood was over.


---Jerry6593 on 5/1/17


"But don't you need to defend yourself, if your wrong?
David wrong has no defense, and right needs no defense.
"Do any one of your teachers hold to Paul's testimony?"
I have only one teacher, and Paul's testimony, If it is a statement of truth, was inspired of Him.
" if your wrong, there will be no Eternal Life."
To know the Father and Jesus as the one sent, is eternal life, and this life is in His Son. The Holy Spirit seals me unto the day of redemption. And I know Jesus is able to keep me from falling, and to present me blameless before Him in the glorious presence of the Father. I am entirely comfortable and confident in what I've been given to believe. Are you?
---josef on 4/29/17


I disagree. Heb 7:14 doesn't mention the Law - only the nature of the priesthood (Levitical vs. Melchisedec).--Jerry 4/27

Jerry
My mistake, I meant (Hebrews 7:12).
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law
Jesus is a new priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, correct?
---David on 4/29/17


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I abide in Him, and again, in Him there is no sin. Why should I spend my time battling something that I am dead to?--Josef

Josef
But don't you need to defend yourself, if your wrong? For if your wrong, there will be no Eternal Life.

It was Jesus who said, "If you want Eternal Life, Keep the commandments." Please,... I ask you take notice of the commandments Jesus gave in (Matthew 19: 16-19), and the fact that Paul uses one of those very commandments, when he gave his testimony in (Romans 7:7-12).

You say you have died to sin, but does your testimony have anything to do with keeping the commandments? No
Do any one of your teachers hold to Paul's testimony? No
Think about it brother.
---David on 4/29/17


"Josef That's why I hope you wake up, it's because you don't battle sin." David Christ in me, is my hope of glory. I abide in Him, and again, in Him there is no sin. Why should I spend my time battling something that I am dead to? When the Father lead me to His Christ, by His grace I acknowledged myself a sinner in need of His salvation, thus confessing my sin. He then lead me to repentance, as an empowered turn from the kingdom and power of darkness, to the kingdom and power of His dear son, cleansing me from all sin. David this is simply a response to you concerning my position in Christ, and my relationship with the Father. It is not meant as an argument, nor do I feel any need to defend myself. I simply love sharing.
---josef on 4/28/17


I don't battle sin---josef on 4/27/17

Josef
That's why I hope you wake up, it's because you don't battle sin. I got the term "Wake up" from (Revelation 3:2) NIV. Revelation, where Jesus advised every one of the seven churches to "Repent".That's the same advise I give to you.

Jesus Christ was sent to save us from sin, sent as the only acceptable sacrifice for sin. Now if you believe Jesus Christ is the "Lamb of God", sent to save us from sin, wouldn't confession of sin be to the best way to show God you believe in him?
---David on 4/28/17


David what is it about the statement "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?", or any other statement that I've made, that gives you the impression that I need to :o)"wake up"? I don't battle sin, I focus on and embraced the righteousness of God through Christ, for His word abides and endures within me. My hope, is in Christ.
---josef on 4/27/17


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"If Sin is in the world, and you still sin, have you overcome the world?"
My belief is as it is written, Jesus has taken away the sins of the world. With the world, as used here, representing the inhabitants of the planet that believe, adheres to, trust in, and relies on, Him. I do believe, without question, that He is the Son of God, referred to, for sins sake, as the lamb of God. I believe Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for sin. Therefore yes David, I know that I have overcome the 'world', as in this sensually based system of things with its rules and adornments. Adornments that entice and seduce the senses, and rules conforming to and dependent upon sensual dictates and passions.
---josef on 4/27/17


Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law tells us what sin is. We are convicted by the law which is a tutor to bring us to Jesus. Galatians.

James also compares the law to a mirror. It shows us the dirt in our lives. But Paul makes sure we know the law tells what sin is.

But it is not the cure. Grace and being Born Again filled with the Holy Spirit is the cure.

Let us look to Jesus. So we will not walk in sin. But live in love. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/27/17


"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" ---josef

Josef
If Sin is in the world, and you still sin, have you overcome the world?

That sin in your life, the one you really battle with, may look like a curse, but it's really a blessing. Haven't you wondered why the sin is still there, after all these years?

It's a blessing, because when the power it had over you, the power which causes you to sin is gone, it's your sign, which tells you, you have been adopted by God, adopted as a son. (1 John 3:10)

Josef, I have a great hope for you, a hope you wake up in time.
---David on 4/27/17


David: "there is No way, you could have received this knowledge from one of the many man made doctrines"

You're right. I got it from the Bible. The Antinomians are politically correct snowflakes, in that they want a trophy for winning the race without ever leaving the starting line.


"Jesus did not take away the Law, he changed it (Hebrews 7:14)."

I disagree. Heb 7:14 doesn't mention the Law - only the nature of the priesthood (Levitical vs. Melchisedec).

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


---Jerry6593 on 4/27/17


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Re:"Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." How is this done? "The word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one." How did we overcome? "[We] overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of [our] testimony" Who are we? "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" How is this victory obtained? "Whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith."
---josef on 4/26/17


We must fight the good fight of faith and wrestle against temptation to sin, so that by God's power (Grace) we may become over comers--Jerry

Jerry
You must be speaking from your experience, for there is No way, you could have received this knowledge from one of the many man made doctrines. Their doctrines come from experience too, only their experience comes from those who merely start the race, and not from those who have finished.

They are not taught we are under the Law of Christ, that Law, God puts into their minds and writes on their hearts. When we say Law, they think we refer to the Law God gave Moses, not the Law of Christ (John 1:17).

Jesus did not take away the Law, he changed it (Hebrews 7:14).
---David on 4/26/17


David: I think you are on the right track. Salvation is not completed at the initial acceptance of Jesus. It is just beginning with this Justification - the blotting out of past sins. We must then walk with Jesus the rest of our lives in Sanctification - being made holy. We must fight the good fight of faith and wrestle against temptation to sin, so that by God's power (Grace) we may become overcomers.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



---Jerry6593 on 4/25/17


Josef
It's all about Love, not imagined... but real. Our love for God, and his love for us. Love that can only develop from a daily walk with God. A walk that's impossible, when we go through life with unforgiven sin.

Most believers, unknowingly, go through life separated from God, with only an occasional confession of sin, which can only temporarily restore the light. In this type of relationship, the love for God, needed to break this sin bondage, becomes impossible.

Stay in the light and this relationship will develop. Sin becomes less, when your love for God grows greater than your temptation to sin. Eventually sin dies.
---David on 4/24/17


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David: Peter spoke of these lawless interpreters of Paul's writers. He said:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul also wrote:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Either Paul is self-conflicted or these Antinonianists are. I think that Paul is OK, but the pseudoscholars here on CN need educating.

Look to Jesus for your answers. Did He keep the Law? Yes!



---Jerry6593 on 4/24/17


David, by the way, I do believe you, I have no reason not to. What would be the purpose of your lying to me. Who am I. I can take you at your word because I believe, as it is written, the believer can do all thing through Christ, which strengthens them. I believe that with the Father, all things are possible, to them that believe. That's why I said in my previous post, good for you. That wasn't a dig.
---josef on 4/23/17


Here is a verse that may answer your question about the Law:
"Dont assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Matt 5:17-18 (HCSB)

The purpose of The Law is to show us what God requires to obtain salvation, but the only person able to do that was Christ. By accepting Christ as Saviour, a person meets God's requirements to be with Him in heaven. Bottom line: We don't work FOR our salvation but BECAUSE of our salvation. A Christian should say, "What would Christ do in any situation they confront, not what does the Law require?
---WIVV on 4/23/17


David, and I never said you were bragging, I took what you said then, as now, as an explanation of how you overcame sin in an attempt to help me. I understand the concept, It is the love of the Father that has enabled me to accept His word that Jesus took upon Himself the sin of the world, and that His presence in the world signified the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. That their purpose was complete in Him, for those of us who believe. As one regenerated spiritually, and renewed mentally from above, I know that I can not sin because I understand that to sin under the covenant of grace is to miss the mark of my high calling, in Christ. I hit that mark when I, by His love and grace, acknowledged and confessed Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
---josef on 4/23/17


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Josef
Believe me,.... though I understand why you may think I'm bragging,.... I don't think of myself more highly than I should. I overcame sin, not because I posess the strength of an Arc Angel, but because I possessed the love a son has for his Father.

You see for many years, I fought against sin as a man would fight against a foe. My strength against his strength, when the true strength against sin, comes from our love for God.

It's kind of like someone in a vain attempt to fight a vampire in a movie. They lose the battle when it's their strength against the vampires strength. When all they really have to do is show them the Cross, or throw open the curtains, and let the light in.
---David on 4/23/17


The Law of Moses helps to expose sin . . . exposing what in me makes me able to sin.

And in the Law I see things which help to show me how God is and how He wants us to love.

For one example > Leviticus 19:18 < this is where our Second Love Commandment is, to love others as ourselves. And in this same verse it says not to hold grudges or seek revenge. So, loving others as myself includes being as willing for others to be forgiven, as I am willing to be forgiven, myself, I can see from this.
---Bill on 4/21/17


But now, we are not under the law which was contrary to us Col 2:10-14. Observing days is weak and beggarly, as is the law Gal 4:9-11, Rom 14:1-7.
---michael_e on 4/21/17


I have not committed that, or any other sin. Good for you David. You have obviously reached a point that the Father has yet to bring me to. Personally Father has shown me not to consider myself more highly than I should. For like the rich man who came to Jesus sincerely believing that he had kept the law, Jesus loving him, gently pointed out to him that as earnestly as he had attempted, and perhaps successfully, kept the letter of the law, he unfortunately failed miserably when it came to the spirit of the law. David I'm not suggesting that you have done the same, I'm simply saying that I know that I have failed. Therefore I look to the faith of Jesus and His atoning sacrifice to justify me, rather than the law, kept or otherwise.
---josef on 4/21/17


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(Romans 7:13).....But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good, that sin by the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Josef
I was once given a commandment like the one Paul mentions above. I didn't know why it was there, but it was. When I broke the commandment, God punished me. This went on for many years, but after I started following the Holy Spirit, the sin became exceedingly sinful.

Exceedly to the point, where one day after I sinned, I dropped to my knees in tears, crying like a baby for about and hour, as I sat alone with God, asking God to forgive me. Relief came, and ever since that day, I have not committed that, or any other sin.
---David on 4/21/17


---Samuelbb7 - So the law tells us what is sin and what we should not do. James says the law is like a mirror. It shows us our problems but does not cure them.

Do you limit the law here to the moral law or to the law given by Moses. Say, for instance, do you believe you can break the law about lighting a fire in your home on the Sabbath.

Ex 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

If you impose the Jewish Sabbath onto people, you must also impose how it is to be observed.
---riolion on 4/20/17


We are not under the Law after sin dies, but we are under the Law before sin dies. Paul says the same in (Romans 7:1) David, sin doesn't die, the believer dies to the law, which is sin's strength. How? See (Rom 7:4) "I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For [Father] made [Jesus] who knew no sin to be [the] sin [offering] for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." In our unity with Christ, there is no sin.
---josef on 4/20/17


Correction to previous post, this line should have read, "I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me". The former makes it sound as if I thought I had something to do with this new life, I don't, I simply acquiesce by His grace, and the empowerment of His Spirit.
---josef on 4/20/17


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Josef
Great answer!
Did you notice (Galatians 3:23) says, those who need a School Master are Under The Law?

We are not under the Law after sin dies, but we are under the Law before sin dies. Paul says the same in (Romans 7:1).

And how do we know sin has died? (1 John 3:9-10) KJV
So it's True, "We are not under the Law", but it's only true,....of those who have been born of God.
---David on 4/20/17


True the law leads us to Jesus. It tells us we are sinner and need to be saved.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So the law tells us what is sin and what we should not do. James says the law is like a mirror. It shows us our problems but does not cure them.

That takes Grace and the blood of Jesus.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/17


AMEN, Josef.
---Rob on 4/19/17


'What role do you believe, "The Law", plays in our lives.."
"The law was our schoolmaster, instructor, tutor, or guardian to bring or lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Gal 3:24 seems clear to me.
---josef on 4/19/17


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