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Law That Christ Fulfilled

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it. We are still under the old covenant as well as the new because all of God's covenants are eternal. What law do you think Christ fulfilled?

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samuel:

"The Ten Commandments were written by GOD not Moses. Exodus 20."

Well you must have not read Exo 19:4-5??

"Sin is breaking the law. 1 john 3:4"

But sir did you continue reading vs 4 it says more and did you continue reading vs 5-6??

"But we are to remember the law defines sin and not live in sin. Romans 3:20."

Corrects and did you continue reading to vs 28?

"But Jesus is GOD. So he gave the Ten Commandments."

But John by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit doesn't mention the Ten C if you read the chapter John tells you the commandments ch 14, and 15 and none of them are the 10C...
---john9346 on 5/26/17


questions that could never be answered...

1. David could never show us all in "Scripture." under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not."

2. Jerry could never tell us all in Heb 8:5-13 where are these verses in this text teaching that Christians are still bound by the Mosaic Law/TenC.

3. David and Jerry both could never show us all from, "Scripture." when the NT Writers spoke of and used the word, "Law." what law were they referring to??

4. David was never able to show from Scripture your statement, "Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses.""

---john9346 on 5/26/17


Dear Jerry, David, and Samuel:

In love gentlemen I pray each one of you will repent and turn to the Christ of "Scripture." who gives grace to all who truly call upon him in (Genuine Repentance)

My friends, believing and trying to keep the law means each one of you are still in your sins and under the wrath of Almighty God... According to Deut 27:26 and Gal 3:10.

Only the Lord Jesus Alone kept and fulfilled the "Mosaic Law." and no human cant nor never will be able to do so.

May God be merciful before you face him in judgment and you be judged by a law that you cant nor never will be able to keep...
---john9346 on 5/26/17


Sammuelbb7. Is it too difficult for you to answer if you consider yourself righteous, holy and perfect, in spite of you being GUILTY OF ALL the law, including the Sabbath (James 2:10)?
---Haz27 on 5/26/17


The Ten Commandments were written by GOD not Moses. Exodus 20

Sin is breaking the law. 1 john 3:4

Agreed no man is justified by the law. We are justified by faith. But we are to remember the law defines sin and not live in sin. Romans 3:20

No. Being Born again and dying to self leads us to keep the law. Romans 6 and 1 John.

Agreed John speaks of Jesus commandments. Which are the commands he is giving. But Jesus is GOD. So he gave the Ten Commandments.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/17




david ask, "If our debts were forgiven before the Prayer, why did the Lord teach us to do this?"

Sir, do you realize that the Lord Jesus Christ hadn't gone to the cross yet?

David states, "believing we are not under the Law, makes it impossible for us to sin."

But the Holy Spirit corrects you by having writtn, "25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Gal 3

Sir, the Holy Spirit just told you the purpose of the "Mosaic Law."

Its not for NT Christians.
---john9346 on 5/26/17


Jerry6593:

"The eating of pork, restaurant choices and the days of driving cars are not subjects mentioned in GOD's Ten Commandment Law."

But according to "Scripture." The TenC is apart of the "Mosaic Law." this isn't so to the SDA, but it is according to "Scripture."

"Jesus saves us from SIN - not from the LAW."

But the Holy Spirit disagrees with you by writing through Paul, "11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."

Sir, believing and trying to keep the law means one is still in his or her sins and under the wrath of Almighty God... also see Deut 27:26 and Gal 3:10.
---john9346 on 5/26/17


Jerry6593:

In Jn 14:15 and 23 the Lord jesus referred to the commandments as "His."

But in Lk 24:44, 16:29-31 he rererred the law by referencing Moses.

He knew the difference between "Mosaic Law." and what New Commandments he was giving his disciples.


What David and Jerry have failed to show from "Scripture." is when the NT Writers mention law were they always referring to the "Mosaic Law."

Both of these gentlemen have avoided answering this question for us all.
---john9346 on 5/26/17


David. In spite of your failings to live up to the standards required under the law, do you consider yourself righteous, holy and perfect?

BTW, consider the criminal on the cross who called Jesus "Lord".
He was righteous (Romans 4:5), holy (Romans 11:16), and perfect (Hebrews 10:14), and thus entered into paradise with Jesus.

Rom 8:33 says:
Who shall lay ANY THING (that obviously includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

If you believe in Jesus, what sin do you think you can still be charged with, in spite of what God say above?
---Haz27 on 5/26/17


4. David are you able to show from Scripture your statement, "Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses.""---john9346

John
Are you familiar with the "Lords Prayer"? In that prayer, we are told to ask God to forgive our debts. If our debts were forgiven before the Prayer, why did the Lord teach us to do this?

Sir, I pray you'll repent and turn to Christ for salvation...---john9346

John
Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, and believing we are not under the Law, makes it impossible for us to sin. So why does someone like you, who has never sinned, need a Savior?
---David on 5/26/17




john: You seem to be uneducable. The eating of pork, restaurant choices and the days of driving cars are not subjects mentioned in GOD's Ten Commandment Law. (And no, I don't eat pork or mice.)


"Sir, I pray you'll repent and turn to Christ for salvation..."

Salvation from what? The LAW? Jesus saves us from SIN - not from the LAW. If you are still in SIN then Jesus has NOT SAVED you.

And for the last time, It's JESUS' Law - Not MOSES Law.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep MY commandments.




---Jerry6593 on 5/26/17


Samuelbb7. We agree that love for others is required. It was Jesus' 2nd command to us (John 13:34).

But you have not answered my earlier question.
We established in previous debates that you clearly fail to keep the 10 commandments perfectly (including the Sabbath), as the law requires for those who are UNDER THE LAW (Rom 3:19).
This then means that you're GUILTY OF ALL the law (James 2:10) if you truly put yourself under the law.

With this in mind, do you consider yourself righteous, holy and perfect?

BTW, consider that the criminal on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". He was righteous (Romans 4:5), holy (Romans 11:16), and perfect (Hebrews 10:14), and thus entered into paradise with Jesus.
---Haz27 on 5/25/17


Romans 13. Paul says fulfill the laws by love. Then lists five of the Ten Commandments. They are directly stated to be in effect.

Ephesian 6:2 First commandment with a Promise. Referring to the fifth of the Ten Commandments. The promise is still in effect. So must be the other five.

No other gods, no idol worship, no taking the name of GOD in vain and remember the Sabbath.

Only one of these ten is argued about. Unless you are saying it is okay to break the other three.

When we are filled with love of GOD and love of others. We keep them because we love. Are we perfect? No. 1 John 2. Speaks of if we sin we have an advocate.

So saved by Grace to live in love. Law written in our hearts. Hebrews 8,8
---Samuelbb7 on 5/25/17


Haz27:

Praise God that you understand what I am saying,however, its truly sad that David seems unable to grap this truth.

David seems to think that he can be perfect by trying to keep something that he will never be able to do (Mosaic Law).

Both Jerry and David fail to understand that they themselves do not keep the "Mosaic Law."
---john9346 on 5/25/17


David,

tell us, under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not??"

(Third Time asking)

Jerry6593:

Do you eat Pork? do you eat at restaurants that serve "Unclean Foods?" do you drive a car on Saturday?" then your "Cursed." Deut 27:26. So your guilty of Jer 7 because if you break 1 you break them all.

Sir, I pray you'll repent and turn to Christ for salvation...
---john9346 on 5/25/17


questions that need to be answered:

1. I am waiting for David to show us all in "Scripture." under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not??"

2. I am waiting for Jerry to tell us all in Heb 8:5-13 where are these verses in this text teaching that Christians are still bound by the Mosaic Law which does include the 10C??

3. I am waiting for David and Jerry both to show us all from, "Scripture." when the NT Writers spoke of and used the word, "Law." what law were they referring to??

4. David are you able to show from Scripture your statement, "Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses.""
---john9346 on 5/25/17


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John continues "6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." David, tell us, under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not??"
---john9346


John
I don't know what to say. You're the first person, I have ever known, who believes they have never sinned. Jesus died for our sins, but since you believe you can not sin, why do you need a savior?
---David on 5/25/17


john:

Jer 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
Jer 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,
Jer 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?



---Jerry6593 on 5/25/17


John9346. Good points you made.

In Christ there is no sin (1John 3:5). And as Christians abide in Christ (Gal 2:20, Col 3:3) then clearly it would be error to say that Christians sin because then that would be like saying that there is sin in Christ.

Rom 8:33 says:
Who shall lay ANY THING (that obviously includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Jesus truly set us free from sin (John 8:36).
---Haz27 on 5/25/17


Jerry6593:

Hear the words of the Lord Jesus referring to the law as the Law of Moses.

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me." Lk24:44-45also see, Lk 16:29, and 31.
---john9346 on 5/24/17


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jerry6593 states, " You insist that people cannot keep GOD'S Law, even with the power of Christ within them,"

Sir listen to how the Holy Spirit instructed Paul to write to address your objection??

Gal 3:

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
---john9346 on 5/24/17


david ask, "What do you think John mean when he wrote, "Take away Sin"?"

Sir, the Holy Spirit had John to address question such as yours did you continue reading what John wrote, "and in him is no sin."

John continues "6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

David, tell us, under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not??"
---john9346 on 5/24/17


Jerry6593:

Sir, you cited Heb 8:10, but did you read 8-9 and 11:13??

Question ,to where are these verses in this text teaching that Christians are still bound by the Mosaic Law which does include the 10C??

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

---john9346 on 5/24/17


Sir, did you continue reading what the Holy Spirit instructed John The Apostle to write after vs 4 of 1 Jn 3: "5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin."--John

John
What do you think John mean when he wrote, "Take away Sin"?
---David on 5/24/17


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john: You are under the mistaken impression that quantity of words will win arguments. The Bible says:

Ecc 5:3 ... a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

You have been shown your error in your insistence that the "Law" means Mosaic Law exclusively - as if you even know what that means.

You insist that people cannot keep GOD'S Law, even with the power of Christ within them, even though the Bible commands it. Satan agrees with you, but Christ does not.

You give scriptural references which don't pertain to the point you're trying to make.

Why don't you spend more time reading and less time writing?



---Jerry6593 on 5/24/17


david my friend:

Sir, did you continue reading what the Holy Spirit instructed John The Apostle to write after vs 4 of 1 Jn 3:

"5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin."

John is reminding the believers in vs 4 of the purpose of the Mosaic Law and the need of the Lord Jesus Christ, listen, "4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

John continues, "6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

David, tell us, under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not??"
---john9346 on 5/23/17


Jerry6593:

Sir, you cited Heb 8:10, but did you read 8-9 and 11:13??

Question ,to where are these verses in this text teaching that Christians are still bound by the Mosaic Law which does include the 10C??

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
---john9346 on 5/23/17


Jerry and David:

Gentlemen,

I hope you will show to all the readers here by answering the Fundamental Question when the NT Writers spoke of and used the word, "Law." what law were they referring to??

1 Jn 3:4 is referring to the Mosaic Law we because John clarifies his meaning in vs 4:

Heb 8:6-13 Paul instructs under the Holy Spirit direction that the "Mosaic Law." is "Osolete
---john9346 on 5/23/17


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(1 John 1: 8-10)8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John
Without the Law there can be no transgression, for sin is the transgression of the Law (1John 3:4).
Now In light of the above passage I have printed out for you, and underscored, do you still believe you have not sinned?
---David on 5/23/17


John: "Tell us, in the NT, where did the Lord Jesus Christ state the words, 'My Law?'"

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put MY LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Did you not know that Paul was quoting the OT, and that Jesus is indeed the God of the OT?



---Jerry6593 on 5/23/17


david you ask:

"Do you believe sin is the transgression of the Law?" yes

"in light of your belief you are not under the Law,?" incorrect.

the law of Christ we are under a "Covenant of Grace." and not, "Works. see Rom 6:14, Lk 22:18-20 You admitted earlier that the covenants have changed.

"can you explain how you sinned, without being under the Law?"

Gladly, see, Matt 5:17-18, Jn 14:23.

What must be shown is when the NT Authors write by the Holy Spirit are they talking about the Mosaic Law or the law of Christ.


This why stated
---john9346 on 5/22/17


Jerry6593 ask, "How could the Law written by God with His own finger in stone be construed as "Moses'" law?"

Because Moses being a type of Christ was the one who was given the law at Sinai, Moses was the one charged with instructing the people in the law.

The Ten Commandments were apart of that Mosaic Law and to not obey it all means one is cursed no matter how hard they try.

Jerry, remember, the OT was a shadow of that which was to come...

Tell us, in the NT, where did the Lord Jesus Christ state the words, "My Law?"
---john9346 on 5/22/17


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Driving, cooking are forbidden on the Sabbath as well as wearing mixed fiber clothing.

Example, if one goes to church on the Sabbath and the next day put on a shirt with mixed fiber he or she is "Automatically." Cursed and all that work put forth for the Previous Day to keep the Sabbath is now "Useless." because you are still cursed...

Thank God for the Lord Jesus Christ who placed us under his "Glorious Grace." no more "Mosaic Law."but"Glorious Grace."
---john9346 on 5/22/17


Samuelbb7. As we established in previous debates, you clearly fail to keep the 10 commandments perfectly (including the Sabbath), as the law requires.
This then means that you're guilty of ALL the law (James 2:10).

With this in mind, do you consider yourself righteous, holy and perfect?

BTW, that criminal on the cross who called Jesus "Lord", was righteous (Romans 4:5), holy (Romans 11:16), and perfect (Hebrews 10:14), and thus entered into paradise with Jesus.
---Haz27 on 5/22/17


When we sin we need to confess our sin. Which put us under grace. 1John 2:1-3--Samuel

Samuel
Exactly! And this is because sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).

If we are separated from God, we are not in a relationship with God. Confession of sin removes the sin which causes us to walk in darkness, and restores the light of God, and our relationship with God.
This is what (1 John 1: 5-8) teaches us.

And it's easy to prove to oneself by learning to confess sin D-A-I-L-Y, as Jesus taught us in (Matthew 6: 9-13). Where after a confession of sin, there is a markedly difference in our view of sin. There is now guilt when we sin, guilt which is not felt in those who don't confess sin.
---David on 5/22/17


Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law in particular the Ten Commandments tell us what is a sin. Romans 13:8,9 confirms this.

When we sin we need to confess our sin. Which put us under grace. 1John 2:1-3

Living in sin without confession. Puts you under law. Those who live for Jesus seek to live in love. Love leads to keeping all the Commandments of the Ten.

In Matthew 5 Jesus says the law applies to what we think also.

We must be Born Again and those who are will live in love.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/21/17


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john: Perhaps you could answer one simple question.

How could the Law written by God with His own finger in stone be construed as "Moses'" law?

Jesus even referred to this Law as "My Law". What gives you the authority to contradict Jesus?



---Jerry6593 on 5/21/17


John
I'm trying my best to follow your belief, so I ask these questions to help me understand.

Do you believe sin is the transgression of the Law? If you do, in light of your belief you are not under the Law, have you ever sinned? If you have, can you explain how you sinned, without being under the Law?
---David on 5/21/17


david states, "You stated I proclaimed we were under Mosaic law, which was not true. Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses."

Which according to "Scripture." means you are stating we are still "Under the Law."

The Mosaic Law had debt as well as requirements.

The Holy Spirit instructed Moses to write, "26 Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This includes requirementsas well as debt.
---john9346 on 5/20/17


david states, "Under the Law of Christ, Jesus provided us with sacrifice, the only sacrifice God will accept."

Correction, the Lord Jesus Christ is, "The Sacrifice." not that he provided sacrifice see Jn 1:29...

"

"Why would John tell us to confess our sin, if there is no Law?"

But this isn't John The Apostle's Point here,furthermore, what must be shown is when the NT Authors write by the Holy Spirit are they talking about the Mosaic Law or the law of Christ.

If we are still under the debt of the Mosaic Law, then according to, "Scripture." we're still bound by it.
What needs to
---john9346 on 5/20/17


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Sir, if we are still living under the Mosaic as you state, "But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again." then you are commanded to, "Not to eat pork, and....--John

John
Okay, that's better. You stated I proclaimed we were under Mosaic law, which was not true. Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses.

Under the Law of Christ, Jesus provided us with sacrifice, the only sacrifice God will accept. When we confess our sins before God, the sin is forgiven, and then the debt for the confessed sin is paid.

Now please answer my question. (1 John 1:9) tell us to confess our sin. Why would John tell us to confess our sin, if there is no Law?
---David on 5/19/17


david my friend:

First, hope you are able to focus on, "Scripture."instead of resorting to, "Emotional Arguments."

The following you are either refusing to answer or confused to respond:


Sir, if we are still living under the Mosaic as you state, "But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again." then you are commanded to, "Not to eat pork, and not where clothes with mix fiber.

If anyone do so they are "Cursed.", see Deut 27:26, Gal 3:10.
---john9346 on 5/18/17


david states, "Christ paid the debt for our sin with his sacrifice, which fulfilled the requirements under the Old covenant. But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again."

But the Holy Spirit instructed Paul The Apostle to write these words, "13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,"

The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the "Mosaic Law." not "Some.", but "All of it."


---john9346 on 5/18/17


While sin is a transgression of the law, we need to define which law we are speaking of - Moral law, civic law, or perhaps the Mosaic law.
If my understanding serves me, we are no longer under the Mosaic law and as such we can light a fire in our homes on the Jewish Sabbath nor do we need to observe laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as observance of the feasts or the Sabbath.
---riolion on 5/18/17




---john9346 on 5/18/17


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John
To be honest, I'm amazed to discover your doctrine, any Doctrine for that matter, which teaches those who follow them, it is impossible for them to sin. Can you give me the name of your denomination so I can study it further?
---David on 5/18/17


david said, "John
Well that's a relief, I'm glad you finally agree with me."

Sir, you're contradicting yourself for you stated, ""John The fulfillment of Law refers to the changing of covenants, not the end of Gods commandments."


"Christ paid or our sin with his sacrifice, which fulfilled the requirements under the Old covenant. But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again.""

Now you're attempting to say what I have stated when I stated, "The covenants have changed as well as the law and commandments."
---john9346 on 5/17/17


The covenants have changed as well as the law and commandments.
---john9346


John
Well that's a relief, I'm glad you finally agree with me. Now if I could only teach you that murder, adultery, theft, and telling lies are sins. Lies like the one where you say,... I stated we are under the Mosaic code.

Murder is against the Law in the United States, and every place I can think of. Is this because they believe we are under the Mosaic code?

If your Church doesn't believe murder, adultery, and stealing are sins, what do they call them?
---David on 5/17/17


david,

Sir, have you not readthe words of the Lord Jesus, "19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

David, listen to his words, "This cup is the new testament in my blood."

Note, "New Testment or New Covenant."

The covenants have changed as well as the law and commandments.
---john9346 on 5/16/17


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david states, "God has never put the laws you mention, into my mind, but he has made me feel guilty of a few of the commandments Christ mentioned in (Matthew 19: 18 & 19). Those."

Sir, if we are still living under the Mosaic as you state, "But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again." then you are commanded to, "Not to eat pork, and not where clothes with mix fiber.

If anyone do so they are "Cursed.", see Deut 27:26, Gal 3:10.

The law that is written on Man's Heart and Mind is the Law of Nauter, not the "Lawof the Lord Jesus Christ."
---john9346 on 5/16/17


Do you not eat pork?? do you not wear clothes with mix fiber?Do you keep the Sabbath?--John

John
The Law of Christ, is that Law God puts into your mind and writes on your heart. God has never put the laws you mention, into my mind, but he has made me feel guilty of a few of the commandments Christ mentioned in (Matthew 19: 18 & 19). Those commandments that God considers acts of Evil.

I wish I could get you to believe that you're a sinner, but that's not my job, it's the job of Gods Holy Spirit. If you don't have guilt, maybe you haven't received this gift. Just a thought my friend.
---David on 5/16/17


A covenant is an agreement, promise or a contract. The Law was NOT the Covenant -
Old or New. The Covenants - both Old and New were solemn promises to keep the Ten Commandment Law - not the Law themselves.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

There was a NEW agreement in which God changed the LOCATION of the Law (from stone to heart), but no mention is made of a NEW LAW.




---Jerry6593 on 5/16/17


david states, "Christ paid the debt for our sin with his sacrifice, which fulfilled the requirements under the Old covenant. But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again."

Sir, Christians are born again under the New Covenant see, jn 5:24, 1 Jn 5:13.

If the OT Debt are still "Ungoing." today (New Covenant." then so would be the "Judgments and punishments."

Are people still sacrificing dogs and cats for their sins, and are parents stoning their disobedient children today in 2017??

David, The Lord Jesus Christ uttered the word,"It is finished."on the cross see jn 19:30.
---john9346 on 5/15/17


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david states, "John The fulfillment of Law refers to the changing of covenants, not the end of Gods commandments."

So, sir, do you not eat pork?? do you not wear clothes with mix fiber??

Do you keep the Sabbath if you do do you drive and cook on the Sabbath?

Do you keep Yom Kippur and Sukkot??
---john9346 on 5/15/17


"What law do you think Christ fulfilled?"

The ultimate law of "Love" (as in the verb form).

Why do christians make fulfilling the law complicated? True christians fulfill the law every day.
---Steveng on 5/14/17


John
The fulfillment of Law refers to the changing of covenants, not the end of Gods commandments. Much like refinancing a house with another mortgage company, doesn't forgive the debt you owe on your house. Your just put under a new covenant.

The new mortgage company simply pays the debt we owed under the first covenant. When the new mortgage company has paid that debt, the terms under the original covenant have been fulfilled.

Christ paid the debt for our sin with his sacrifice, which fulfilled the requirements under the Old covenant. But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again.
---David on 5/14/17


"What law do you think Christ fulfilled?"

The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the "Mosaic Law." meaning ceremonial, Civil, and Moral.
---john9346 on 5/13/17


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I believe those who accept Christ as their Lord are under a covenant with God. Do you agree? If you do, I would very much like to have your definition of the word covenant.
---David on 5/13/17

David, According to the Law of Christ,we're under The Covenant of Grace.

The Mosaic Law was a Covenant of Works.

Thanks for clarifying your stance regarding which law you're referencing.


---john9346 on 5/13/17


John
If you look back to my comment on 5/10, I said I was speaking about the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. Which are very similar as told in (Matthew 19: 18 & 19) & ( Romans 13:10)

Perhaps I'm confusing you also, so let's find some common ground in which I hope we can both agree.

I believe those who accept Christ as their Lord are under a covenant with God. Do you agree? If you do, I would very much like to have your definition of the word covenant.
---David on 5/13/17


david said, "John
Now you have me confused. You say your not under Gods laws, and yet you say through Grace, you love....and Obey.
Obey what?"

Sir, sorry you are confused.

Simply, we obey now according to grace not the Mosaic Law.

You seem to think that we can only obey Christ by the Mosaic Law of which the Holy Spirit had the authors of the NT to clearly emphasize that is not so.
---john9346 on 5/12/17


In the Nt, we love and worship Christ and he gives us his grace to love and obey.---john9346 on 5/11/17

John
Now you have me confused. You say your not under Gods laws, and yet you say through Grace, you love....and Obey.
Obey what?

I'm confused because it can't be Gods commands, because that would be the Law, and you are not under the Law.
---David on 5/12/17


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david ask, ""How can God judge us according to our sin, if we are not under Law?"

Sir, lets define terms so there is understanding.

According to the NT Christians are "Under Grace." not, "Under the law."grace is God's unmerritted activity towards man.

According to the Mosaic Law those individuals were "Under Law." meaning they were bound/obligated to keep something that they couldn't never keep, they had to merritt something from God and no one could ever do that...

In the Nt, we love and worship Christ and he gives us his grace to love and obey.

The Mosaic Law pointed to a person the Law of Christ is the person.
---john9346 on 5/11/17


david said, "John
According to Paul, If you break any of these commandments he gives in verse 9, do you love your neighbor?"

The answer to your question is no,but the further question that needs to be ask is why??
---john9346 on 5/11/17


Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the spirit, ye are not under the Law,

Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace,

Zephaniah 2:3 - Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld his justice, Seek righteousness, seek humility, It may be that you be hidden in the day of the Lord's anger.
---RichardC on 5/10/17


(Romans 13) 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

John
According to Paul, If you break any of these commandments he gives in verse 9, do you love your neighbor?
If you don't know, This teaching parallels The one Christ gave in (Matthew 19:16-21)
---David on 5/11/17


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david:

"If you were not under Law, wouldn't it be impossible to sin, since sin is the transgression of the Law?"

According to the NT the answer to your question is no.

"On the day of judgement, we will be judged according to our sin. How can God judge us according to our sin, if we are not under Law?"

Because we are under "Grace."

"If you can transgress the Law, doesn't logic dictate, we are under the Law?"

Not logic, but "Sacred Scripture." which states "Under Grace." NT (New Covenant)

David my friend, NT Christians are under grace not under the law...

The authors explicitly stated...
---john9346 on 5/10/17


Basically, the Old Testament is the HEBREW BIBLE (it does CONTAIN many things that can be useful to us in understanding the NEW Testament).

The Jewish sacrifices used "the blood of bulls and goats", but that was insufficient and INADEQUATE for the forgiveness of sins, so The Heavenly Father sent us a LAMB (this is a helpful explanation, isn't it?).

The Jews only knew God according to TIME (that is why their Sabbath was a TIME PERIOD (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday). OUR Sabbath is ETERNAL (JESUS is the ETERNAL SABBATH and ETERNAL COVENANT).

There is no "OBEY"/duty in the law we are to abide by (law of liberty, James 1:25-2:12), but many refuse to abide/live by it, so God considers them LAWLESS.
---faithforfaith on 5/10/17


If all that happen was "Changing." of the law of Moses then it would still be binding.---john9346 on 5/9/17

John
If you were not under Law, wouldn't it be impossible to sin, since sin is the transgression of the Law? (1 John 3:4)

On the day of judgement, we will be judged according to our sin. How can God judge us according to our sin, if we are not under Law? I'm referring to the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses.

If a policeman gave you a speeding ticket on the autobahn, when you went to court, the judge would throw the ticket in the garbage. Why? Because where there is no Law, there can be no transgression.

If you can transgress the Law, doesn't logic dictate, we are under the Law?
---David on 5/10/17


Truthseeker:

You wrote: We are still under the old covenant as well as the new because all of God's covenants are eternal.

Were you circumsized on the 8th day after your birth? Do you travel to Jerusalem every year for Passover, and sacrifice a lamb, and smear its blood over your doorposts? Do you keep all 619 of the Levitical laws? If not, you're not under the old covenant.

Yes, God's covenants are eternal, but the old covenant was with the Jews, and we are not Jews. We are part of a new covenant, which involves a new initiation rite (baptism rather than circumcision), a new priesthood (Jesus rather than levitical priests), and a new law.
---StrongAxe on 5/10/17


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We are still under the old covenant as well as the new because all of God's covenants are eternal.
---Truthseeker on 5/8/17

I must disagree with this statement.

When the veil in the temple was torn top to bottom, God instituted Jesus blood, for the remission of sin.

In Jer 31, God establishes a new covenant, not like the old covenant when He was a husband to them, but in the new He will be their God, they will all know Him, and they will be His people.

In Acts 15, the Apostles do not require obedience for gentiles of old covenant dietary and ceremonial law.

In Heb. 10, it says Jesus takes away the first to establish the second. In Heb 8, it says the new covenant has made the first obsolete.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/9/17


When he became the High Priest, the Law was changed, not done away with.

---David on 5/9/17







When he became the High Priest, the Law was changed, not done away with.
---David on 5/9/17

The BiblicalWord is "Fulfilled." not changed...

If all that happen was "Changing." of the law of Moses then it would still be binding. The only difference would just be under a new Leader.

This is foreign to the NT Writers...


---john9346 on 5/9/17


We need the new paradigm (reference point) of ETERNITY.

Deu 33:27 The ETERNAL GOD is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting.

Rom 16:26 the command of the ETERNAL GOD ..(this is the age of eternity, no longer the age of TIME).

Heb 13 by the blood of the ETERNAL COVENANT
Heb 9:14 the blood of Christ, who through the ETERNAL SPIRIT

Jesus was sent to earth in the fullness of TIME (the completion and end of TIME,
Ephesians 1:10).Jesus ended the age of time and also began the age of eternity.

Heb 9:26 once for all at the end of the age to put away sin

Mark 10:30 in the age to come, eternal life

JESUS is the ETERNAL COVENANT.

All verses are from the RSV.
---faithforfaith on 5/9/17


What law do you think Christ fulfilled?

(Matthew 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
When Jesus said, "Fulfilled", he was referring to fulfilling the prophecies, the Prophets had spoken about him.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus was not the High Priest when he was on Earth, he did not become Gods High Priest until he went to heaven, (When he fulfilled the prophecies, the Prophets had foretold of the Christ)

When he became the High Priest, the Law was changed, not done away with.
---David on 5/9/17


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barb ask, "John, what do you believe Jesus meant when He said, "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath Day"?"

The Lord Jesus(God Incarnate) was confirming that he created the Sabbath Day and the day was not above him see vs 6...

Barb ask, "Why did He tell them they had condemned the guiltless?"

Ma'am, the Lord Jesus answers your question in vs 2.

The Lord Jesus is our "Sabbath." and we don't have to wait to Saturday or Sunday to rest in him we can rest in him 24 hours a day 365 days a year...
---john9346 on 5/8/17


/...We are still under the old covenant as well as the new because all of God's covenants are eternal. What law do you think Christ fulfilled?\-Truthseeker on 5/7/17
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
-If we are under both(all) covenants because they are eternal, why is one being/been taken away?
---micha9344 on 5/8/17


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