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How Long To Create World

Lee justifies his unbelief in Genesis: "Probably because the more mature Christian has come to realize that God is not limited by our concept of time." Tell us something we don't know. But He reveals information in Scripture to teach us the truth (2 Tim. 3:16). This means that what God DOES reveal to us means the same to Him as us, otherwise communication is impossible. Or perhaps God means something different from man when he commands against murder, theft, adultery etc. Of course God doesn't experience the 6 days, 930 years of Adam's life, etc. the same way we do. But the time frame He reveals must be "man's time".

How Long To Create World

Lee sayeth: "Some noticeable Christians in the past such as St. Augustine believed that God created everything simply by calling it into being and did not have to wait 24 hours before each event." Of course God didn't HAVE to wait. The question is whether He DID wait! Augustine was actually a young-ager. "Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed." [The City of God, 12(10)]

How Long To Create World

The "days before the sun" canard was no problem to Church Fathers and Reformers. E.g. St Basil the Great (4th century) had no problem, when he described the first three creation days in Hexaemeron: "The water had been gathered into the reservoir assigned to it, the earth displayed its productions, it had caused many kinds of herbs to germinate and it was adorned with all kinds of plants. "However, the sun and the moon did not yet exist, in order that those who live in ignorance of God may not consider the sun as the origin and the father of light, or as the maker of all that grows out of the earth. That is why there was a fourth day, and then God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven"

Darwin's Theory Of Old Earth

Lee to Warwick: //You might also note that not all those who attack your pet beliefs are necessarily compromisers or liberals, but serious and conservative students of the Bible.// More likely, they have abandoned biblical authority because of fear of secular "science" //Frankly, it must be your hobby to denigrate other Christians.// Stop being such a mimophant. You denigrate biblical creationists. //Of course, I rather doubt those that believe in an young earth will bother to read any of them since they already claim to know the 'truth'.// More likely, they are just boring old claims of contradictions between Gen. 1 and 2, long ago refuted.

Darwin's Theory Of Old Earth

Cliff: //Warwick, I read the so-called VanBebber/Taylor expose' but also Dr.Ross's rebuttal which makes them look foolish// I've read both, and also Refuting Compromise which makes Ross look foolish. For one thing, Ross's article claiming that most church fathers believed in long creation days is no longer to be found on his website. //Death passed to all "MEN" are the bibles words, // Sure, and there are fossils of undoubted Homo sapiens "dated" (by methods Ross accepts) to almost 200,000 years ago. This is longer than we can possibly stretch the genealogies of Adam. This alone is enough to refute Rossism. Gen. 1 also teaches that animals were created vegetarian along with humans.

What Is The Age Of The Earth
	1st_cliff to Warwick: "I told you my source (maybe that's the problem?) of early chuch fathers not subscribing to a 24hr.creation "day". Your source has been proven to be defective, e.g. by the book "Refuting Compromise". But my source is not Hugh Ross, but checking the Church Fathers themselves. Most who commented on the days explicitly said it was 24 hours.

What Is The Age Of The Earth

Trav: "The Hebrew word "Erets" meaning country or land, 1700 times is avoided." It's elementary hermeneutics that the meaning of a word is determined by its *specific context*, not by its meaning in all contexts. I also note the inconsistency: "yom" means 24 hour day in the vast majority of contexts, including those most like Gen. 1. "Points to a limited LARGE area." The *repeated* use of universal quantifier "all"/"every" (Hebrew kol) in Genesis 7:1923 points to a global Flood. While single kol may *sometimes* be local, double kol must be universal. Why build an Ark for a local Flood? Lot and his family just fled from the Sodom area, a local catastrophe.

Genesis Account Mythological
	Cliff the Spong devotee: Not that you care about what Christ said, but in Matthew 19:3-6, He cited Gen. 1:27 and 2:24 as real history, and about the same man and woman. He also didn't hallucinate any contradiction. Note that in v.5, Gen. 2:4 is attributed to the One who made Adam and Eve, i.e. the Scripture was the word of God.

Genesis Account Mythological

Earl is just elephant hurling. He hasn't the slightest evidence of historical errors. Indeed, Moses was the editor of Genesis from pre-existing ancient accounts, but this editing was under the direction of the Holy Spirit. That's why Jesus said: "He (Abraham) said to him (the rich man in Hell), 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" (Luke 19:31) "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say." (John 5:46-47).

Earth Created In Six Days

1st_cliff is just a boring liberal in the Spong mode, who blindly accepts the long-discredited Graf-Wellhausen nonsense. If Cliff wants to prove that the translation is wrong, let him produce an original that differs. The language in the beginning was Hebrew or something very close, shown by the word plays. The Hebrew wayyitser in Gen. 2:19 should be rendered "had formed" (pluperfect) as per the NIV, i.e. God *had formed* the animals which he brought to Adam to name, then God made Eve. No contradiction.

Earth Created In Six Days
	1st_cliff //Warwick, Yom, Beyom, now we"re getting into semantics.// As we should! This debate is about the meaning of words in their context, which is what "semantics" means. //Written vowels were not part of early Hebrew script!// Again irrelevant, because the consonants were enough to differentiate the plain yom from the prepositional phrase beyom/bayom, the latter has a prefixed letter beit.

Earth Created In Six Days

1st_cliff asks of Warwick: "Why would you imagine that god was in some kind of "time-bind"???" He wasn't. God could have created everything in 6 femtoseconds. But He spread it out over 6 days to give a pattern for our working week (Ex. 20:8-11). "... the estimated no.of species are between 30-50 million!" Did you count? Actually, estimates vary, considering that under 2 million are actually named. And these are just man-made distinctions in many cases, since the so-called different species and sometimes even different genera interbreed. So why should we interpret Genesis according to a fallible man-made classification scheme?

Christian Home Schooling Best

Gary Where is this *in the Bible*? The "socialization" myth is self-serving on the part of teachers unions, because their teachers will scream at the kids, "you're here to learn, not to socialize." In reality, homeschooled kids learn to deal with people of widely different ages. Government school "socialization" involves artificially age-segregated herds that have no application to adult life. And "socialization" in practice often means peer pressure and bullying.

Earth Created In Six Days

1st_cliff That is a half truth. Strong's gives many meanings of "day", and most of them are normal-length. But this is not enough: not all meanings will fit a specific context. Dr Don Carson's book Exegetical Fallacies explains your fallacy as: Unwarranted adoption of an expanded semantic field. The fallacy in this instance lies in the supposition that the meaning of the word in a specific context is much broader than the context itself allows and may bring with it the words entire semantic range. BTW, Koehler and Baumgartner's standard Hebrew-Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT) specifically states that Gen 1:5 as a day of twenty-four hours.

Earth Created In Six Days
	Lee1538: "What that really tells me is that you apparently believe that our salvation largely depends not upon Christ, but merely right beliefs." The Apostle Paul thought so too. See Romans 10:9, 1 Cor. 15:1-4. But in your case, the question is "which Christ?". The true Christ is both God and man, and He died for our sins and rose again from the dead.

Christian Home Schooling Best

Why would any Christian parents want to send their kids to public schools? Now they are pushing sodomite propaganda in the California schools from an early age, and they teach goo-to-you evolution as fact. And the kids are there 6 hours/day, 5 days/week. How can one hour of Sunday school undo that? Parents who claim that they can teach their kids the truth are just sending out confusing messages. I.e. learn from your teachers, but what they are saying is often a lie. As for the "witness to the other kids" excuse, if you really believe that, send them to a liberal Sunday school and an Islamic Monday-to-Friday school.