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Are Fallen Angels Demons
	Mark V, Great stuff! Amen.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

cont. Jack B, By the way, since I looked it up, Daniel 4:11-24(please review) is the fulfillment of the "Isaiah 14" prophecy about a HUMAN (not an angel) portrayed as a high/mighty TREE, tautingly called Lucifer because he boasts of his TREE growing higher than the heavens. TREE falls from heaven after being "felled"/Old English meaning chopped down. Dan4:11 The TREE grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: Is14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Thanks JackB, Angels are Holy! Researched/reviewed. Found only 3 references that do not confirm your last blog. Note the KJV word "AND". 1)Daniel 4:13 I saw in the visions... a watcher AND an holy one came down from heaven 2)Daniel 4:23 The king saw a watcher AND an holy one coming down from heaven 3)Daniel 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, AND the demand by the word of the holy ones Nothing here in these verses says anything that displays a distinction of Holy and Unholy angels from Heaven. In fact, according to the word "AND" it seems like watchers and holy ones are either two differing beings or simply put... WATCHERS ARE HOLY, the latter being my initial contention!

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Mark V, May your holiday season be filled with God's love/laughter. Many scholars who believe in fallen angels have a major problem with your reading. But you teach very well that it's not what I, you or the scholars believe,what God says matters. The context of Jude's "messengers" was set one verse earlier: 5)I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6)And the angels(aggelos/messengers) which kept not their first estate Humanities'first estate is God's presence: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to PRESENT you faultless before the PRESENCE

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Jack B, I briefly addressed this earlier in the blog. I submit that contextually, it is a horrible Greek to English translation of the word "aggelos". In Jude, the word "angels" should read "messengers" meaning human messengers, not angels. See context. Earlier Blog: Human "messengers"(aggelos) sin and fall. Angels in Heaven always obey the voice of the Word of God. Psalms states: Bless the Lord ALL ye his angels, WHO DO His commandments. The context of Jude and 2Peter is about the human MESSENGERS(aggelos) who sinned and were buried in darkness because they were shackled to darkness in the wilderness(of sin). Best example: Korah(Corah/Dathan)! ---Legends on 8/25/09

Are Fallen Angels Demons

(If Satan & his angels are not on the earth, then there is no one to tempt us. If there is no temptation, then there is no sin. Do you think there is sin on the earth?)-Jerry 6593 YES, SATAN and his messengers(angels)are on Earth. YES, temptation and sin is here. NO, Satan is not a fallen angel! There is no such being as a fallen angel. NO, Satan's angels are not fallen angels. Temptation is never based on the existence of "fallen angels" according to the apostles' teaching. Note James Chapter 1: 14But EVERY MAN is tempted, when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Jerry 65931 and Mark V, God's not herky-jerky but very orderly in chap12/Revelation! Please consider contextual order noting words like WOMAN/NOW/THEN. 1 NOW a great sign appeared in heaven, A WOMAN 2 THEN being with child, 4...And the dragon stood before THE WOMAN 7 And war broke out in heaven... 9 the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, 10 THEN I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW salvation...and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His CHRIST have come, for the accuser of OUR BRETHREN.... HAS BEEN cast down. 13 NOW when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted THE WOMAN. Any theologian worth his salt should clearly see THE ORDER.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Jerry 6593, Thanks for the reply. This may sound strange if you have never before seen my many replies about what I believe are "contextual" reasonings concerning my contention that there are no such things as fallen angels. Heck! May sound strange if you have. Mark V and I have dialogued a little bit about it. He does a great job of making me do my homework in my reasonings. To his credit he has never pridefully inferred that I absolutely have "no light within me" as another has. May be that I have no light on this particular subject. And maybe I have keen insight. I believe the "entire" argument if valid. But, we can only present it 135 words at a time for others to ponder and then respond.

Fiery Stones In Eden
	Blaine, Good point! I'm sure I overreacted to something I thought you meant against me stating my opinions! Forgive a bro? Blessings during this upcoming holiday season!

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Eloy, I who have no light within obey: The- the king- king of- of Babylon- babylon: Lucifer- lucifer...(heylel- heylel)Is- is this- this the- the MAN- MAN! Say- say unto- unto prince- prince of- of Tyrus- Tyrus... thou- thou art- art a- a MAN- MAN. Hey! This is pretty cool! I'm enlightened since you made me aware that I've obviously never read any of the scriptures you recited. Thanks- thanks Eloy- Eloy p-p s-s Read- read Daniel- Daniel Chapter- chapter 4- 4

Are Fallen Angels Demons

jerry6593, Thanks for the scripture. Two points to consider about that particular passage. 1) The event of this war in "heaven" mentioned in CHAPTER 12 hasn't happened yet seeing that it's in CHAPTER 12. ONE CHAPTER BEFORE, we see the 2 prophets of what most call the Great Tribulation period which obviously HASN'T HAPPENED YET EITHER. No two prophets yet(ch11) = no war in heaven yet(ch12) 2) The term heaven can mean the visable sky or stars depending on context. "These(Two Prophets) have power to shut HEAVEN, that it RAIN not in the days of their prophecy." Rev11:6

Are Fallen Angels Demons

"And Judas departed, and went and hanged himself." "Go and do likewise." Matthew 27:5Luke 10:37 Eloy, Every scripture you mentioned has a context. Not one of them contextually shows that any of Heaven's angels have sinned/fallen becoming demons. Listen to your Logic: The Biblical term "devil and his angels" or "Satan and his angels"--->Satan was once a Heavenly angel. Sound Biblical Logic says: This is equal to the the term "God and His angels" or "Jesus and His Holy angels"--->God/Jesus are angels. God/Jesus are not heavenly angels but have messengers angels. Likewise: The devil/opposer/adverse one was not a heavenly angel but has messengers.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

The common practice of glueing unfitting scriptures together has been a plague in the Church for centuries. Each scripture has a context. Each context points to the fact that humans are totally responsible for governing themselves under God. Heaven...not the clouds and stars "heaven" mentioned in the verse you quoted OUT OF CONTEXT from Isaiah (which by the way is about a TREE falling from "heaven" THE LOFTY SKY WHERE CLOUDS and even "heaven" OUTERSPACE WHERE STARS ARE. This prophecy about the king of Babylon portrayed as A TREE was fulfilled in DANIEL CHAPTER 4)... But Heaven, God's invisible realm does not have and HAS NEVER had a problem with government. Heavens angels/messengers NEVER sin(ned).

Fiery Stones In Eden

Blaine, You just argued in your blog and then stated that we should not argue about things not specifically addressed in the Bible. Calling the King of Tyre, "Satan" as you just did is not specifically addressed in Bible. Calling Satan a Cherub is not specifically addressed either. For that matter, A FORMER ANGEL in Heaven named "Lucifer" or "Satan" or "the devil" is never addressed in Bible. The devil/satan is never specifically called a cherub. YOU AND I SPECIFICALLY SEE AND KNOW that the King of Tyre, A HUMAN was. p.s. I also specifically know that A HUMAN named Adam was in Eden the garden of God and He was charged by God to Guard the Garden like the Cherubs did before the Cherubs did.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Gotta Love a Bro. that wants scripture! Here Goes: WIND/FIRE CALLED MALAK(Angels): Psalm 104:4 Amplified -Who makes winds His messengers, flames of fire His ministers. Psalm 104:4 Young's Literal Translation -Making His messengers -- the winds, His ministers -- the flaming fire. 10 PLAGUES including WATER CALLED MALAK(Angels) Study Psalm 78:43-51 KJV ABBREVIATED He wrought His SIGNS in Egypt rivers/into blood, floods/undrinkable, FLIES AMONG THEM, frogs,caterpillers,locust,destroyed vines/hail, sycomores/frost, cattle slain/hail, flocks/thunderbolts, smote Egypt's firstborn/death. He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending EVIL ANGELS AMONG THEM.

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Pt. 2 Psalm 104 Per Youngs, Amplified and others, WIND and FIRE are clearly called God's messengers(Malak) and ministers. Hebrews confirms that Psalm 104 CONTEXT is saying that winds and flames are EVEN his angels/servants. Heavenly Angels are NOT winds. Winds ARE angels i/e serving God as message carriers. Wind and fire are natural,common things God uses to send His messages to Hard-Headed mankind. Psalm 78 CONTEXTUALLY, the 10 PLAGUES were the EVIL ANGELS to the Hard-Headed Egyptions. There's no Biblical record in Exodus of "fallen angels" loose in Egypt. SIGNS are MESSAGES. 10 EVIL MESSENGERS (bloody water, flood, hail, frogs,DEATH,etc CARRIED SAME MESSAGE/SIGN as Moses/Aaron, Let my people go!

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Psalm104:4 context isn't about heavenly angels. It's speaking of nature speaking as God's MESSENGERS(wind,waters,clouds,fire,etc). Young's Literal reads like this: Making His messengers -- the winds, His ministers -- the flaming fire. Wind and Fire are two of God's messengers. Wind brought quail, Whirlwind rebuked Job, Rushing mighty wind at Pentecost, etc. Fire Pillar guarded Israel, Flaming torch covenanted with Abraham, Flaming sword guarded Eden, burning bush lured Moses, etc. All of these natural things are his messengers. OT word/Messenger comes from Hebrew/Malak. Malak could be tranlated messenger or angel just like NT word/Messenger comes from Greek/Aggelos and could be translated angels or messengers. Context!

Are Fallen Angels Demons

Cont. Bible Translators and teachers have led us into believing Psalm 104, as well as Jude and 2Peter, refers to heaven's angels. While I agree with Mark V that Heaven's angels are a special order of created beings. What I also know to be Biblically, contextually true is this. Natural wind, natural fire, natural water, natural clouds, and many natural "things" including humans are also referred to as God's ANGELS/MESSENGERS/MALAK/AGGELOS. I also know that multiple Biblical Humans were called Malak and Aggelos(Malachi, Amos, John the Baptist). The translator has to get it right. Translator=You and me. In Jude/2Peter we get it wrong. Heavenly angels never sinned. Humans messengers did!

Are Fallen Angels Demons

There is no such being as a fallen angel... only fallen human messengers who do not take personal responsibility for their own demise. I imagine that many loved ones who have gone on before us in death have asked Gabriel, Michael or even Jehovah Himself about the "angels that sinned". I imagine the angels looked at our loved ones with a puzzled look saying, "Bless the Lord "ALL" ye angels who do God's will. We always have, always do and always will obey God... ALL of us!" All "human" messengers sin! Need proof... Read 2nd Peter and Jude contextually. The word angels should have been translated messengers... referencing the Hebrews people of the great Exodus like Korah/Dathan/10 spies.

When Did Sin Enter World

Pt 1 I don't expect everyone to understand and accept this immediately or ever. But here it goes anyway. Study the merits of how it fits with the entirety of Biblical context before dismissing it if you humbly will. -What we all tend to overlook in Genesis is "the Genesis" of evil. Specifically, Adam's mouth speaking(calling) from his fleshly mind and not calling(speaking) from God's pre-ordained will. This sin happened when "he" first opened his mouth to speak.