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What Is Christian Living
  
David8318:

You said: the fog of the pagan trinity blinds minds ...

I have hade a year of close association with Jehovah's Witnesses to be somewhat familiar with how they re-interpret (and sometimes rephrase) scripture to suit their own particular agendas. Sadly, although I have spent a lot of time studying Hebrew, my knowledge of Greek is somewhat limited.

The very fact that you blame trinitarianism shows you're willing to scapegoat it for anything, rather than dealing with it objectively.

You are obviously unable to explain how or why you trinitarians render Jo.1:1 without promoting polytheism.

I shouldn't need to here, because this is a blog about Christian living, NOT trinitarianism.


What Is Christian Living
  
David8318:

You wrote: 'and the word was (toward) the god...'

I presume the use of parentheses is standard JW usage - i.e. a word that is not actually present in the text, but is assumed to be implied by the context (and of course, this is open to interpretation).

Perhaps like Collossians 1:16, with "all [other] things were created by him...", where [other] is absolutely essential for Jehovah's Witness theology, but is not present in the text, and is not implied either grammatically nor contextually.

(Of course, none of this has anything to do with the blog topic. Yet another blog hijacked onto a pet topic - i.e. trinity-bashing)


What Is Christian Living
  
David8318:

Yes, in Acts 28:6, those who watched Paul thought he was a god - in the Greco-Roman pagan sense (i.e. one of many). However, Judaism and Christianity are not polytheistic. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" means that the one God forbids worship of any others. If John 1:1 means Jesus was a different (and inferior) god, and elsewhere in the New Testament he accepted worship, then Jesus and his worshippers (and indeed John the evangelist) were violating the first commandment.


Lawrence:

Matt.28:19 isn't "Baptizing them in the name of me, myself, and I".


Devil Speaking Through Someone
  
Rita_H:

You wrote: It would be a good thing if this question were to be removed i.m.o. because it seems to be inciting hatred amongst some users.

If the moderators removed every single topic where people got involved in mud-slinging, etc., there would be virtually no topics left! There are some people who have nothing better to do than shove their own personal theological agendas down everyone else's throats, hijacking one blog after another for the same purpose, and/or calling anyone names or worse if they don't agree with those agendas. It's best to just speak to such people calmly and factually, or just ignore them.


When Did Heaven Start
  
aka:

You wrote: some groups forbade their followers to interpret scripture and leave bible interpretation to them and not the followers.

It's one thing to develop an esoteric ideology by weaving intricate meanings into various scriptures, requiring much careful interpretation. It's quite another when what one teaches is directly and plainly contradicted by a scripture that anyone can see clearly without any interpretation.


When Did Heaven Start
  
aka:

You asked: now, you tell me, at what point in time (in scripture) does it say that the Archangel Michael and Jesus are the same making, Michael the Savior? Was it when some groups forbade their followers to interpret scripture and leave bible interpretation to them and not the followers?

The idea that Jesus is Michael is believed by Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Widnessesses, and virtually nobody else. There is no scripture that actually says this. In fact, it is directly contradicted by Hebrews 1:5-8, so how they can reconcile their beliefs with this scripture is totally beyond me.


Non Biblical Sayings
  
jerry6593:

Romans 14:5
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

Colossians 2:16,
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

These can't just be holiday sabbaths - if so, they would already be included in "holyday".

Those who worship on Sunday are fine according to Romans 14:5. This was fine for Paul. Why isn't it enough for you?


Samuelbb7:

Why are you flexible with interpretations of scriptures you don't like, while being adamant about ones you do?


Devil Speaking Through Someone
  
Lawrence:

Funny, when I read Revelation 17:4-6 (which you mention over and over again), I don't see any mention of "trinity churches". You must be reading between the lines. Also funny how you condemn those who read between the lines of the Bible and see "trinity" when it isn't actually written anywhere. If you want to condemn others for jumping to erroneous conclusions based on personal opinions of things that aren't actually written there, you should refrain from doing exactly the same thing.


End Time Religions
  
Samuelbb7:

There are several reasons why a Muslim empire seems like a plausible match:
- Mecca is a city built on seven hills
- So many countries depend on middle-eastern oil, so they bend over backwards to please (i.e. avoid offending) Arab countries.
- Those will also mourn if the middle east (and the oil it supplies) ever fails.
- Radical Islam (as shown so recently by ISIS) is the only political system in the world currenly that both persecutes Christians, and executes people by beheading
- Islam teaches that Isa (i.e. Jesus) would return in the last days. Someone claiming to be the Muslim Jesus, pushing Islam and repudiating Christianity would certainly fit the definition of Antichrist.


When Did Heaven Start
  
Cluny:

Enoch and Elijah don't really apply here. This is about when people went to heaven when they die, and neither one of them died.


What Is Christian Living
  
So Lawrence, since you rant so loudly against trinitarian "theology ideology", what DO you believe?

Is Jesus God, or not?

If not (as Jehovah's Witnesses believe), how do you explain John 1:1?

And if so (as Apostolics/Oneness Pentecostals believe), did Jesus say "This is myself in whom I am well pleased" as he descended upon himself at his baptism, and "Not my will, but mine be done" in Gethsemane?


Non Biblical Sayings
  
Warwick:

If you obey what the books of Moses actually say about HOW to observe the sabbath, they forbid any work, travel (so driving is out), lighting fires (so cooking is out). Also, any use of electricity is out (since flipping a light switch causes a spark - i.e. creates fire). For the same reason, use of any internal combustion engine is also out (cars, motorcycles, lawn mower, etc.)

So, driving to church on the Sabbath violates this in several different ways. Just how observant ARE you?


Non Biblical Sayings
  
jerry6593:

As I pointed out in my previous message, Sabbath and Sunday are not related to each other. So what? The Sabbath is the day of rest. That has nothing to do with worship.

Look at evidence of the Ten Commandments (which were ultimately derived from the Two that Jesus said were most important) in the New Testament. There are repeated warnings against murder, theft, adultery, false witness, covetousness, idolatry, etc. But guess what. There is NOT A SINGLE INSTANCE where Jesus or any of the Apostles commanded Sabbath observance, let alone Sabbath worship. what can we conclude from this?


Non Biblical Sayings
  
jerry6593:

You said: Thanks for proving that Sunday is a counterfeit.

Perhaps you need a refresher course in elementary logic. Providing a technically precise definition of what "Sabbath" means has absolutely no bearing on what "Sunday" means. Sunday is just as real as Wednesday or Monday.

If you are talking about "Should abstain from work on Sunday vs. the Sabbath?", that is a totally unrelated question, as is "Should we worship on the Sabbath vs. Sunday?". The Old Testament mandates rest on the Sabbath, not worship. The early church met on the FIRST day (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2).


Non Biblical Sayings
  
Cluny:

I said: Sola scriptura really means, Scripture interprets Scripture. And since Scripture is authoritative and all other is non-authoritative, Scripture then interprets itself.

You said: Actually, Scripture itself repudiates that idea

I only said what it literally meant. I didn't say that scripture supports it (which, in retrospect, makes it yet another phrase or concept that isn't in the Bible).


Purgatory, Heaven Or Hell
  
jason9835:

These blogs are about what truth IS, or about what scripture SAYS. They aren't (or shouldn't be) about what I, or you, or anyone else THINKS it is. Our own personal opinions and conjectures are irrelevant to such discussions.

In court, a judge judges based on evidence, not his own personal opinions on the criminal's guilt. He must pust aside his own personal opinions on the subject to be able to judge fairly and impartially.

Clearly what these books teach is at odds with the bible and this is why they were rejected.

So you admit their rejection was a matter of scholarship and educated opinion - NOT the finger of God saying "Behold this book, in which I am well pleased".


Dealing With Bullies
  
kathr4453:

You said: The FACTS are the policeman murdered an unarmed man after he raises his hands and surrendered. PERIOD.

No. The FACTS are the policeman KILLED an unarmed man. Some witnesses say he raised his hands and surrendered. Others said he beat the policeman, who drew his weapon in self defense.

Unless you are God and personally know which of these versions is true, you CANNOT judge whether this is murder or not. PERIOD. Jesus told us not to judge. We are not God.

Police simply cannot go around murdering people and make themselves judge jury end executioner all at once.

True. This is why we leave such judgments to the courts, and NOT partially informed people chatting on the internet.


Non Biblical Sayings
  
Luke:

You said: Sola scriptura really means,
Scripture interprets Scripture. And since Scripture is authoritative and all other is non-authoritative, Scripture then interprets itself.


Actually, sola scriptura literally means by scripture alone, i.e. scripture alone is the authority for determining Christian behavior.

The phrase scripture interprets scripture is very good to mention on this blog, however, because it is one of those things many Christians take for granted, but it does not actually occur anywhere in scripture itself.


Purgatory, Heaven Or Hell
  
jason9835:

To be clear: I am not here saying "Enoch is canonical" or "Maccabees is canonical". (I'm also not saying they're not - I'll leave those arguments to scholars). I am just saying that the argument "a book being quoted in the New Testament is evidence of its inspiration, and it not being quoted proves it isn't inspired" is logically indefensible, and can lead to self-contradictory conclusions.



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