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How Did Life Begin
  
David:

There are so many erroneous pseudo-scientific assumptions in the above statement, that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Evolution is a very slow process. If (say) 99.9999% of DNA reproduces faithfully, you would have to throw away a lot of bandages before any of them contained anything that wasn't 100% you, and even once you found one of those, the chances of a random mutation being actually beneficial rather than harmful is quite slim.

Plus, even with correct DNA, the chance of a drop of blood from a bandage turning into fully functioning human being is also practically nil.


Praying From A Book
  
kathr4453:

If Calvin and Augustine's words don't do it for you, but your pastor's do, does that mean your pastor is better than they were?

The point I was trying to establish is, HOW MUCH truth is in the Bible itself, and how much must come from outside (e.g. HS's inspiration)? People can agree objectively to what is written, but enlightenment is subjective, since two different people will say HS showed them a scripture means two different things, and both can't be right. Look at how Mormons justify belief in the Book of Mormon - "ask God, and he will confirm that it is the Word of God", and they will say He has done so, but most Christians would disagree.


How Did Life Begin
  
David:

No. We see from simpler organisms that all could develop simultaneously, in very small steps.


Jerry6593:

"You have no proof" is not using "logic", only saying YOURE statements do not follow rules of logic.

Why not provide PROOF, rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks? Explain HOW science and mathematics have "concluded" abiogenesis is IMPOSSIBLE.

Also, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is an exercise in reductio ad absurdum. The claim that a flying spaghetti monster created life supernaturally is just as "scientific" (or not) as the claim that Jehovah or Zeus or Odin did. We have no SCIENTIFIC proof of Genesis - it is a matter of faith.


Praying From A Book
  
kathr4453:

I heartily agree with you about Bereans, but if you take your argument to its conclusion, it means we don't need preachers AT ALL, since they tell us nothing not already in the Bible. Furthermore, there is no reason why ANY of us should be on this blog, since there is nothing anyone can teach us that isn't already in the Bible. Might as well pack up our computers and go home.

This very attitude is used to excuse destroying libraries (i.e. one Muslim leader said that if books agree with the Qur'an, we don't need them, and if they don't, they are heretical and must be destroyed.)

Also, if the Holy Spirit is teaching us what the Bible means, why need the Bible at all? Why not just teach us directly?


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

I never said the Ten Commandments weren't RELEVANT, just no longer NECESSARY. Anyone who truly believes "love your neighbor as yourself" no longer needs SPECIFIC rules to not steal, kills, etc. However, since most of us aren't perfect, 10C are good examples of what "love your neighbor" entails.

I am not speaking about teachings of any specific denomination (because that is not relevant to anyone else's) - just what I get from reading scriptures themselves.

As Cluny asked, how were "do not blend fabrics" or "put your women away during their time of the month", etc. fulfilled on the cross? Leviticus freely mixes ritual laws with others, with no distinction between them.


How Did Life Begin
  
David:

That does not follow logically. Similarly, if God created man on day 6, and human parasites on an earlier day, how did THEY survive?

Look at all the other living creatures out there. All organ systems humans have exist in similar forms in other animals, often in in simpler forms. For example, our heart has four chambers. Some animals have two- and one-chambered hearts. The heart valve is similar to the valves in the legs that keep blood from flowing backwards due to gravity (and whose damage causes varicose veins). There are some primitive creatures that have only one valve, and whose blood moves when their bodies do.

Could God create man in one day? Yes. Do the laws of physics and biology REQUIRE that he did? No.


Praying From A Book
  
kathr4453:

All the sages, Rabbis, church fathers, etc. did was to expound on the meaning of scripture. Guess what pastors do when they preach? If you want the pure, unadulterated word of God, free from any influence of man, and you ignore the teachings of sages, Rabbis, and church fathers for that reason, you must therefore also ignore the teachings of pastors for exactly the same reason, and do nothing but read the Bible alone.

However, even that approach goes against scriptural precedent - for what did Paul do? What were his letters about (e.g. Hebrews, Romans, etc.)? They were nothing more than expounding on the meaning of scripture!


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Why not? Isn't God just as much the author of one as of the other?

Which were fulfilled and which are still in effect? People claim there's a distinction, but I have yet to see a precise list in scripture.

Ps 89:34 talks about lips, Pr 13:13 about words - neither mentions stone nor parchment. YOU assume they mean one and not the other.

10C and the Law of Moses were given to Jews. When apostles were asked what parts of Jewish law gentile converts must obey, the list was very short, and didn't include 10C.


How Did Life Begin
  
Jerry6593:

You wrote: Laws of biology and chemistry obey the laws of physics, but none of them can produce new life forms.

That is not a statement of fact, merely opinion. There is no scientific PROOF that physics CANNOT produce life. You may assert that we cannot see it happening, and that we do not know how it is done, but absence of proof is not proof of absence. As our knowledge increases, we see more and more evidence that various pieces of evolution of life can, in fact, work (e.g. spontaneous creation of organic molecules including proteins and nucleic acids out of elemental gases).


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Then please tell me just how many of the 600+ commandments in the Law do you personally follow, since not a single jot nor tittle from any of them has passed away?


The Fischer Reynolds Curse
  
Dementio:

It is very common in cases where two people who have been married for a very long time, when one dies, the other dies shortly afterwards. This is not a matter of a curse, but of love - when two people love one another deeply, and one goes, the other may lose the will for a longer life. Why can't the same hold between a mother and daughter? It's especially devastating for a parent to lose a child.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Jesus said "not one iota would pass away from the law UNTIL IT IS FULFILLED". The very fact that some or all of the law may pass away once it is fulfilled means it DOES connotate destruction - not as a matter of "changing the law", but because the Law is now obsolete. As Paul said, we needed the Law to point our way to righteousness, but it was imperfect - now we have a better way, so the Law is no longer necessary.

If you, in your heart, love your neighbor as yourself, you no longer need to be told not to rob, kill, cuckold, perjure, or envy. You would ALREADY be doing those things without being told. If you love God, you won't blaspheme or commit idolatry either.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

We Christians are not forbidden from murder and theft because of the Law, which the Jews are under, but we are not. We are forbidden from them because they violate "love your neighbor as yourself". But we are not obliged to keep "do not seethe a kid in its mother's milk", "do not blend fabrics", etc. etc.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Fabrics are in a different part of the Law. The Law contains other commandments besides the Sabbath one, although one might not realize that by reading your posts.

The law says one must not light a fire on the Sabbath. Internal combustion engines work by lighting fires dozens of times per second - so no cars (not to mention travel being forbidden). Light switches open and close electric circuits, which cause sparks, which are little fires - hence also technically forbidden.

The Sabbath was made for man - for us to be allowed to REST from work.

Did Jesus not fulfill the Law? If not, why don't we still sacrifice paschal lambs, etc.?


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Jesus healed on the Sabbath. There are examples where his healing drained energy from him - which made it work, and work was forbidden on the Sabbath. Not working on the Sabbath was a biblical prohibition, not a pharisaical one.

Again, raising ALL days as equally holy as the Sabbath does not violate Isa 58:13, etc.

Psa 119:6: ALL commandments, including not blending fabrics, putting women out of the house during their time of the month, executing people who violate the Sabbath, etc. Do you do all of those?

Do you drive to church on Saturday, or cook breakfast, or flip lights on/off? If so, you violate the Sabbath.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

No, I don't think the majority is always right. However, if you are trying to make a point where 90+% of all the Christians on the plantet disagree with you, you have a major uphill battle, and arguing with me about it won't get you very far.

I follow the example of Christ and treat all days as equally holy - he healed on the Sabbath just as much on other days (and got flack for it from the scripturally-correct Pharisees).

Again, I never said I revere Sunday as Sabbath. If you want to have THAT argument, find somebody who actually does.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

It said he went to them on the sabbath, but not HOW he observed the sabbath. The Old Testament was very specific about things required on the sabbath: abstinence from work, commerce, travel, lighting fires, etc. Notably absent from these requireents are commands to worship or to teach. Those were customs, yes, but NOT part of the sabbath commandment.

However, it is obvious nothing you say will change my mind, and nothing I say will change yours, so to continue this discussion would just be a waste of both your time and mine. You don't seem to be eliciting any comments from most of the other people on these blogs (most of whom are members of evangelical Sunday-observing denominations). You aren't convincing them either.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry659:

You keep claiming this, but the context makes absolutely no mention of it.

Why, if all days were to be held in equal esteem, is there no record of Jesus, Paul, or any of the disciples keeping any day holy other than the Sabbath?

Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. He was obeying the OT law. He HAD to to be sinless under the Law.

There is no record of Paul keeping anything. There is no record of Paul going to the bathroom either, but you would be foolish to use this absence to infer that he never had to go.

Why would Paul mention sabbaths AND holy days, if the sabbaths were ONLY special holy-day sabbaths? That would then be totally redundant.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6:

The context of Romans 14 isn't specifically about sabbaths or eating (which are just mentioned as examples), but more generally about letting one's faith decide what is and isn't appropriate behavior, and about not judging others who make different decisions than you do. It specifically mentions vegetarianism (which was NEVER mentioned as part of the Old Testament holiday observances).

You can't KEEP something holy that was never made holy.

Then why would Paul say "some keep all days equally holy"?

I don't keep any other day AS the Sabbath. I consider all days equally holy, as Paul said. He also said I'm not to allow you to judge me with respect to that.



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