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Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Then please tell me just how many of the 600+ commandments in the Law do you personally follow, since not a single jot nor tittle from any of them has passed away?


The Fischer Reynolds Curse
  
Dementio:

It is very common in cases where two people who have been married for a very long time, when one dies, the other dies shortly afterwards. This is not a matter of a curse, but of love - when two people love one another deeply, and one goes, the other may lose the will for a longer life. Why can't the same hold between a mother and daughter? It's especially devastating for a parent to lose a child.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Jesus said "not one iota would pass away from the law UNTIL IT IS FULFILLED". The very fact that some or all of the law may pass away once it is fulfilled means it DOES connotate destruction - not as a matter of "changing the law", but because the Law is now obsolete. As Paul said, we needed the Law to point our way to righteousness, but it was imperfect - now we have a better way, so the Law is no longer necessary.

If you, in your heart, love your neighbor as yourself, you no longer need to be told not to rob, kill, cuckold, perjure, or envy. You would ALREADY be doing those things without being told. If you love God, you won't blaspheme or commit idolatry either.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

We Christians are not forbidden from murder and theft because of the Law, which the Jews are under, but we are not. We are forbidden from them because they violate "love your neighbor as yourself". But we are not obliged to keep "do not seethe a kid in its mother's milk", "do not blend fabrics", etc. etc.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Fabrics are in a different part of the Law. The Law contains other commandments besides the Sabbath one, although one might not realize that by reading your posts.

The law says one must not light a fire on the Sabbath. Internal combustion engines work by lighting fires dozens of times per second - so no cars (not to mention travel being forbidden). Light switches open and close electric circuits, which cause sparks, which are little fires - hence also technically forbidden.

The Sabbath was made for man - for us to be allowed to REST from work.

Did Jesus not fulfill the Law? If not, why don't we still sacrifice paschal lambs, etc.?


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Jesus healed on the Sabbath. There are examples where his healing drained energy from him - which made it work, and work was forbidden on the Sabbath. Not working on the Sabbath was a biblical prohibition, not a pharisaical one.

Again, raising ALL days as equally holy as the Sabbath does not violate Isa 58:13, etc.

Psa 119:6: ALL commandments, including not blending fabrics, putting women out of the house during their time of the month, executing people who violate the Sabbath, etc. Do you do all of those?

Do you drive to church on Saturday, or cook breakfast, or flip lights on/off? If so, you violate the Sabbath.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

No, I don't think the majority is always right. However, if you are trying to make a point where 90+% of all the Christians on the plantet disagree with you, you have a major uphill battle, and arguing with me about it won't get you very far.

I follow the example of Christ and treat all days as equally holy - he healed on the Sabbath just as much on other days (and got flack for it from the scripturally-correct Pharisees).

Again, I never said I revere Sunday as Sabbath. If you want to have THAT argument, find somebody who actually does.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

It said he went to them on the sabbath, but not HOW he observed the sabbath. The Old Testament was very specific about things required on the sabbath: abstinence from work, commerce, travel, lighting fires, etc. Notably absent from these requireents are commands to worship or to teach. Those were customs, yes, but NOT part of the sabbath commandment.

However, it is obvious nothing you say will change my mind, and nothing I say will change yours, so to continue this discussion would just be a waste of both your time and mine. You don't seem to be eliciting any comments from most of the other people on these blogs (most of whom are members of evangelical Sunday-observing denominations). You aren't convincing them either.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry659:

You keep claiming this, but the context makes absolutely no mention of it.

Why, if all days were to be held in equal esteem, is there no record of Jesus, Paul, or any of the disciples keeping any day holy other than the Sabbath?

Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. He was obeying the OT law. He HAD to to be sinless under the Law.

There is no record of Paul keeping anything. There is no record of Paul going to the bathroom either, but you would be foolish to use this absence to infer that he never had to go.

Why would Paul mention sabbaths AND holy days, if the sabbaths were ONLY special holy-day sabbaths? That would then be totally redundant.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6:

The context of Romans 14 isn't specifically about sabbaths or eating (which are just mentioned as examples), but more generally about letting one's faith decide what is and isn't appropriate behavior, and about not judging others who make different decisions than you do. It specifically mentions vegetarianism (which was NEVER mentioned as part of the Old Testament holiday observances).

You can't KEEP something holy that was never made holy.

Then why would Paul say "some keep all days equally holy"?

I don't keep any other day AS the Sabbath. I consider all days equally holy, as Paul said. He also said I'm not to allow you to judge me with respect to that.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Steveng:

You wrote: Are you in the habit of speaking / writing lies? I keep on repeating that I, and others like me, do NOT belong to any worldly denominational "church."

I replied specifically to Jerry6593, not you.

You believe in revering the Saturday Sabbath. Good for you. Others are persuaded in their own minds otherwise. Good for them.

Everything is doable, but not everything is profitable.

So why do you keep doing something that is not profitable?

Even if you keep harping on this subject, Paul FORBIDS us from listening to you about it - we are to LET no man judge us with respect to sabbaths, holy days, food, etc.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Read ALL of Romans 14.

He who regards one day regards it to the Lord. He who regards all days regards them to the Lord. He who eats eats to the Lord. He who refrains from eating does to to the Lord. Why is that such a problem for you?

Those who prefer Sunday (or no particular day) are perfectly free to do so - yet you and other SDAs keep arguing the point that they should keep Saturday as more holy. Why? Do you know better than Paul? By constantly harping on this, and telling people they are doing it wrong, you are disparaging their faith (see v.10 and 22).


Where Is Elijah And Enoch
  
joseph:

The chronology of John 3:13 took place before Jesus ascended, so it cannot speak to what happened or will happen afterwards. If John 3:13 were perpetually true, then either Jesus did not ascend to heaven, or Jesus was not a man. Which of these two things do you believe? Furthermore it also means that none of us would ever go to heaven either. Do you believe that too? Somehow, I don't think so.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Steveng:

You wrote:

You might just as well ask why would God establish holy days, and then take them away. Or why would God establish the Law and then take it away.

Nobody has yet answered why they keep harping on this subject despite "let each be persuaded in his own mind". Why do you keep trying to change the persuasion of those who are already persuaded in their own minds?


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

Paul's "persuaded in his own mind" scripture about the Sabbath has NOTHING to do with meat sacrificed to idols.

If "sabbaths" meant "holy days", he would have had no need to mention them twice. Despite your constant claims, NOTHING in the context suggests sabbaths mean anything other than ordinary sabbaths. Why must you twist the plain meaning of scripture to fit your own church's doctrine?

You called "us lefties" a lawless bunch - BECAUSE of challenging the Sabbath (thus disallowing us from being persuaded in our own minds). Wouldn't that also make ALL Sunday Christians (including Catholics and Baptists) also "lawless bunches"?


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Jerry6593:

*I* don't claim he was a hypocrite. *YOU* do. Jesus and Paul were Jews, yet came to preach a new covenant. Were both hypocrites?

Paul said "let each be persuaded in his own mind". He was free to keep the Sabbath, and any of us are free to keep it or not. This is totally consistent with what he taught - no hypocrisy there.

How do YOU explain "let each be persuaded in his own mind" and "let no man judge you with respect to the Sabbath"?

By bringing politics into this, you accuse ALL Sunday Christians as being lefties. THAT should stir up a hornet's nest among all the right-wing evangelicals here!

*I* consider Sunday no more or less holy than Saturday or Thursday.


Force Us To Be Saved
  
Pharisee:

A paradox can happen in one of two ways:
1) The fundamental rules under which a problem is stated are logically inconsistent, and no valid conclusion can ever be reached from them, or
2) The problem is approached from the wrong perspective. A different perspective resolves the paradox.

For example, in Achilles and the Tortoise, when Achilles (the fastest man alive) races the Tortoise (the slowest creature alive), he can never overtake it - a paradox. Yet simple observation shows that he DOES overtake it. The problem is just worded in a way to look at it from a faulty perspective.


Unicorns Satyrs Cockatrices
  
riolion:

The Bible (i.e. the original scriptures as written by the original authors) claim inspiration for themselves, but manuscript copies of those are only as good as their frail human copyists (very good, but not 100% perfect), and translations of those are only as good as the translators. The King James translators themselves claim that their translation is imperfect.

The meanings of many uncommon words are lost to antiquity. Translators frequently used words that were only approximations, or sometimes pure guesswork, for words they did not fully understand.


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Steveng:

You wrote: Those "superficial differences" didn't help Adam and Eve.

That's total rubbish. What superficial differences did Adam and Eve deal with? Whether one creature should be called a monkey or an ape? Or another a rabbit or a hare? Or later, when they made coverings, whether to use oak leaves or maple leaves?

The decision to eat the forbidden fruit was the only one they are actually recorded as having made, and it was one that was fundamental, not superficial.

What, pray tell, makes you believe I don't have fellowship with other christians?

You are constantly condemning anyone who is a member of any denominational church. Do you have fellowship with such people?


Are Churches Politically Corrrectc
  
Steveng:

It depends greatly on WHAT those doctrines are. Most critical doctrines are shared by most denominations - the fundamentals. Most doctrines that separate one denomination from another are trivial and non-essential. Believing or disbelieving them neither saves nor damns you. One denomination believes in singing a hymn at the start of service, while another doesn't. Who cares? Such superficial differences don't matter in the long run. It only matters if you elevate the superficial to critical importance (e.g. saying "those who are dunked are saved, while those who are sprinkled are damned"), or use such superficial differences as an excuse to break fellowship with other believers, as you apparently do.



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