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How Does God Select
  
That's why David. Noah already had a relationship with God. And because of that, God spared Noah and his family from drowning.--Kathryn

Kathryn
I agree, Noah was saved because of his relationship with God. Don't you believe it was because of this relationship, he found Grace in the eyes of God? If not, how do you believe Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord?


How Does God Select
  
David, I looked again and could find NO OT SCRIPTURE with the words "saved by grace". --Kathryn

(Genesis 6:6-8) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air, for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Kathryn
This passage tells us why God destroyed everything that lived on Earth, and why he saved Noah. What reason does the Bible give for God saving Noah?


How Does God Select
  
Kathryn
Why would Paul use Abraham, one who found Grace in the eyes of God, as an example of Grace in the New Testament, if Grace was different in the Old Testament?

And why would Peter use the example of Noah, as one who was saved by Grace, if the Grace he found in the eyes of God was different from the Grace we find in the New testament?


How Does God Select
  
Again GRACE IS THE CROSS, AKA the Finished WORKS OF CHRIST.---Kathryn

Kathryn
Much of what you wrote showed great insight, but Grace is mentioned many times throughout the Old Testament.

If Grace is the finished works of Christ, why is Grace mentioned in the Old Testament, thousands of years before Christ died on the cross?


How Is God Love
  
Good question, for those who believe God the Father loves everyone. When you look at all the examples you have given, you discover one thing they all had in common. The one thing they all had in common, was they were all living in disobedience to God.

Now doesn't it seem logical, if those who live in disobedience to God were subjected to his Wrath, those who live in obedience would be subjected to his Grace?

But unfortunately this teaching in (John 14:21-23) and many others like (John 8:34-35), taught by Jesus Christ, are considered blasphemy in the church today.

Could you just imagine a teacher teaching (John 14:21-23) in the church today, along with ((Romans 2)?
I did it, and I was asked to leave.


How Does God Select
  
It is God's grace working in these people to cause them to so continue in well-doing.--Bill

Bill
In (John 14:21), did Jesus say it's our love for him which causes us to keep his commandments, or it's Gods love for us which causes us keep his commandments?

Kathryn
My take on the parable was the "many", are the Gentiles who came dressed for the wedding. And the "Few", as foretold in (Revelation 7:4), are the children of Abraham.

The Gentile thrown out because he was not dressed for the wedding, represent, those who call Jesus, 'Lord (accept the invitation), but do not make him Lord (dress in wedding clothes), as in ( Matthew 7:21-23).


I Like A 16 Year Old Girl
  
Dalton
The law of man makes your love a perversion, not the Law of God.
Still, the Law of man does not make it illegal to love, but illegal to act on your love.

And since you can go to jail for breaking this law, I think it best to do as some have recommended, and wait a few years, when your relationship will become legal.


How Does God Select
  
Few are chosen - Few of God's elect are chosen to understand the truths of the gospel. --Trey

Trey
Interesting!
You have given me a different perspective on the phrase "Many are called and few are chosen", and I'm not sure now what my perspective is.

In the (Matthew 22) parable, Many are properly dressed for the wedding, and Few (one) does not come properly dressed for the wedding.

The many are allowed to stay at the wedding, but one (few) is not allowed to stay. Doesn't it appear as though it's better to be one of the many and not the few?


How Does God Select
  
Christ comes after the tribulation, at the beginning of the thousand year reign. Christian must endure unto the end. Christians will be persecuted, killed and jailed. The mark of the beast will be issued during the tribulation and many christian will take it not knowing it is the mark of
Beast.--Steven


Steven
Your right!
I must have bumped my head before I wrote yesterday. I was mounting an argument against a pre-trib rapture believer, when you clearly are not. Thanks for the rebuttal brother.

Certainly we cannot save ourselves.--Kathryn

Kathryn
If this is true, why didn't Jesus use this as his answer in (Luke 10:25-37)? BTW, His answer goes nicely with the teaching in (James 2:15-26).


How Does God Select
  
The second is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ...
---Steveng on 3/11/17


Steven
I use to believe this too, but the 1000 year reign must happen before Christ returns, and I'll try to show you why.

Does Jesus say he will come before or after the tribulation in (Matthew 24:29-30)?

In (Revelation 20:4-5) it tells us those in the first resurrection, are there, because they didn't worship the beast, or get his mark.

Is the mark of the beast given before or after the tribulation?
After reading (Revelation 13: 7-17) and the other passages I mentioned, do you agree?


How Does God Select
  
Have any of you considered we might be dealing with two different phases of Grace in the New Testament?

Unmerited Grace, which gave us a Savior through which we can be saved, and merited Grace which gives us the power to become a Son of God.(John 1:17)

Wouldn't this explain verses like (Romans 2:5-7), (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8), & (1 John 3: 9-10), verses an Unmerited favor doctrine completely ignores. Ignored because they can not be reconciled with an unmerited Grace doctrine.


How Does God Select
  
Thanks again!
You have all shown me, that after all these years, I was wrong. For there truly is an unmerited Grace which I hadn't considered, when trying to understand the Unmerited Grace doctrine.

Though I knew, the Grace through which Jesus Christ was sent was an Unmerited Grace, I never thought folks believed that to be "Saving Grace".

I believe throughout time there has always been an unmerited Grace, but sinful man had no way to be sanctified so we had no access to it.
Without being cleansed of sin, there is no way to be justified before God. Man must stand justified before God, or there can be no relationship.


How Does God Select
  
Thanks again!
You have all shown me, that after all these years, I was wrong. For there truly is an unmerited Grace which I hadn't considered, when trying to understand the Unmerited Grace doctrine.

Though I knew, the Grace through which Jesus Christ was sent was an Unmerited Grace, I never thought folks believed that to be "Saving Grace".

I believe throughout time there has always been an unmerited Grace, but sinful man had no way to be sanctified so we had no access to it.
Without being cleansed of sin, there is no way to be justified before God. Man must Sanctified in order to have a relationship with a God.


How Does God Select
  
Great answers, and I thank each of you for them. But I guess my confusion comes from the word "Unmerited", and how folks defines it.

I don't believe the Grace by which we are saved is unmerited, but perhaps the reason I don't understand those who do see it as unmerited, is because we define the word differently.

I believe the word "Unmerited" means that nothing is required of us to be saved. How would you folks define it?


Force Us To Be Saved
  
God does not persuade all people to choose his way, because God left that choice up to man.


Saved By Following Bible
  
Hebrews 11 show faith in action. Works of faith, not works of the Law.---kathr4453 on 3/7/17

Kathryn
This is what I believe too!
I'm glad to hear your definition of faith, is faith by works. Now we're one step closer, to the point many folks miss.

Now since Paul taught we are saved by "Grace though faith", and James taught faith without works is worthless, that faith by which we receive Grace, must be by works of faith. To believe Grace is obtained without works, one must also believe Gods Grace is worthless.

Christ layed the very foundation of Paul's, "Grace through faith" teaching in (John 14:21). Not by the Law of Moses, but by the Law of Christ. (John 1:17).


Refresh Your Browser
  
OK, I will refresh my browser. Thanks!


Saved By Following Bible
  
Obedience of faith leads to Righteousness, Obedience of faith leads to JUSTIFICATION ,---kathr4453 on 3/6/17

Kathryn
I can't find either of these statements in (Roman 6), but nevertheless I'll pretend it is.

In (James 2:18), James mentioned two types of faith. He speaks of a faith with works, a faith which has value, and a faith without works, a faith he calls worthless.
Which faith are you referring to in your statements?


Saved By Following Bible
  
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.---kathr4453 on 3/5/17

Kathryn
If you go down a few more verses Paul also said in (Romans 6:16)
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness"

Weren't you born into sin, once a "Servant of sin"?
In light of the above verse, can you tell us how you managed to became a servant of God, without obedience?

You teach righteousness leads to obedience, when Paul clearly says obedience leads to righteousness.
Can you explain this disparity?


Favorite Translation Of Bible
  
Cluny
I meant to thank you for calling me on what I said. I was told this about the KJV in the years before we had the internet. I had wondered why I didn't research what I had been told, and this was the reason.

I am still researching it, and if I find out any more information I'll let you know.

BTW, some people have called you Clunky in the past. My IPad sometimes replaces your name with Clunky, after I put in Cluny. So if anyone does this, it's just a spell correction made by the computer, not an act of immaturity.



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