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Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
4. David are you able to show from Scripture your statement, "Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses.""---john9346

John
Are you familiar with the "Lords Prayer"? In that prayer, we are told to ask God to forgive our debts. If our debts were forgiven before the Prayer, why did the Lord teach us to do this?

Sir, I pray you'll repent and turn to Christ for salvation...---john9346

John
Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, and believing we are not under the Law, makes it impossible for us to sin. So why does someone like you, who has never sinned, need a Savior?


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
John continues "6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." David, tell us, under the "Mosaic Law." was it possible to "Sin not??"
---john9346


John
I don't know what to say. You're the first person, I have ever known, who believes they have never sinned. Jesus died for our sins, but since you believe you can not sin, why do you need a savior?


The Power Of The Law
  
David: It is indeed strange how few Christians realize that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New.--Jerry

Jerry
Good point!
I believe it's because they do not understand "why", God changed the Law. It was changed because...well...if one wishes, they can find this answer in (Hebrews 9).

It's as though folks have come to believe, the New Covenant was not designed to change the ways of man, it was designed to change the ways of God.

And God said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"". And Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments". Looks like the same God to me!!!


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
Sir, did you continue reading what the Holy Spirit instructed John The Apostle to write after vs 4 of 1 Jn 3: "5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin."--John

John
What do you think John mean when he wrote, "Take away Sin"?


Not Want To Live Forever
  
Good advice Joseph!
God is light and The kingdom of God is illuminated by the light of God. The light provides peace and joy to those on whom it shines.

I experienced the light in heaven, first hand, many years ago. I don't expect folks to believe me, but the light, all by itself, will provide you with more happiness than anything here on Earth.

Every desire of man is a desire meant to bring Joy. In Heaven, God fills you with so much Joy, your only desire is to serve him.


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
(1 John 1: 8-10)8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John
Without the Law there can be no transgression, for sin is the transgression of the Law (1John 3:4).
Now In light of the above passage I have printed out for you, and underscored, do you still believe you have not sinned?


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
When we sin we need to confess our sin. Which put us under grace. 1John 2:1-3--Samuel

Samuel
Exactly! And this is because sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).

If we are separated from God, we are not in a relationship with God. Confession of sin removes the sin which causes us to walk in darkness, and restores the light of God, and our relationship with God.
This is what (1 John 1: 5-8) teaches us.

And it's easy to prove to oneself by learning to confess sin D-A-I-L-Y, as Jesus taught us in (Matthew 6: 9-13). Where after a confession of sin, there is a markedly difference in our view of sin. There is now guilt when we sin, guilt which is not felt in those who don't confess sin.


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
John
I'm trying my best to follow your belief, so I ask these questions to help me understand.

Do you believe sin is the transgression of the Law? If you do, in light of your belief you are not under the Law, have you ever sinned? If you have, can you explain how you sinned, without being under the Law?


The Power Of The Law
  
Jerry
You got it brother. When you get your teachings from Gods Holy Spirit and not from men, God will show you just how foolish the teachings of men really are. And when the believers, who put their faith in these false doctrines can see the foolishness, you have opened their eyes so they can seek the Truth.

The majority of CN believers, believe they are not under Gods Law. But look how few argue against the evidence we have produced. (Luke 21:15).


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
Sir, if we are still living under the Mosaic as you state, "But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again." then you are commanded to, "Not to eat pork, and....--John

John
Okay, that's better. You stated I proclaimed we were under Mosaic law, which was not true. Notice I said it's the debt which remains, not the Law of Moses.

Under the Law of Christ, Jesus provided us with sacrifice, the only sacrifice God will accept. When we confess our sins before God, the sin is forgiven, and then the debt for the confessed sin is paid.

Now please answer my question. (1 John 1:9) tell us to confess our sin. Why would John tell us to confess our sin, if there is no Law?


The Power Of The Law
  
Isn't Jesus a sacrifice for sin under the NEW Covenant? Isn't it true, where there is no Law, there can be no transgression/ sin?

Why would we need a sacrifice for sin, if we're not under the Law?


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
John
To be honest, I'm amazed to discover your doctrine, any Doctrine for that matter, which teaches those who follow them, it is impossible for them to sin. Can you give me the name of your denomination so I can study it further?


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
The covenants have changed as well as the law and commandments.
---john9346


John
Well that's a relief, I'm glad you finally agree with me. Now if I could only teach you that murder, adultery, theft, and telling lies are sins. Lies like the one where you say,... I stated we are under the Mosaic code.

Murder is against the Law in the United States, and every place I can think of. Is this because they believe we are under the Mosaic code?

If your Church doesn't believe murder, adultery, and stealing are sins, what do they call them?


The Power Of The Law
  

David: Well said!---Jerry

Jerry
It's definitely a hard point to argue against, when one realizes sin is the transgression of the Law. Because everyone who confesses sin or calls themselves a sinner, knowingly or unknowingly puts themselves under the Law of God.

Their very own actions make their argument, stating they are not under Gods Law, indefensible.


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
Do you not eat pork?? do you not wear clothes with mix fiber?Do you keep the Sabbath?--John

John
The Law of Christ, is that Law God puts into your mind and writes on your heart. God has never put the laws you mention, into my mind, but he has made me feel guilty of a few of the commandments Christ mentioned in (Matthew 19: 18 & 19). Those commandments that God considers acts of Evil.

I wish I could get you to believe that you're a sinner, but that's not my job, it's the job of Gods Holy Spirit. If you don't have guilt, maybe you haven't received this gift. Just a thought my friend.


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
John
The fulfillment of Law refers to the changing of covenants, not the end of Gods commandments. Much like refinancing a house with another mortgage company, doesn't forgive the debt you owe on your house. Your just put under a new covenant.

The new mortgage company simply pays the debt we owed under the first covenant. When the new mortgage company has paid that debt, the terms under the original covenant have been fulfilled.

Christ paid the debt for our sin with his sacrifice, which fulfilled the requirements under the Old covenant. But the debt still remains under the New, until we are born again.


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
John
If you look back to my comment on 5/10, I said I was speaking about the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. Which are very similar as told in (Matthew 19: 18 & 19) & ( Romans 13:10)

Perhaps I'm confusing you also, so let's find some common ground in which I hope we can both agree.

I believe those who accept Christ as their Lord are under a covenant with God. Do you agree? If you do, I would very much like to have your definition of the word covenant.


The Power Of The Law
  
Faithforth
Paul wrote, "Where there is no Law, there is no Transgression". Which makes perfect sense, in knowing sin is the transgression of the Law. (1 John 3:4)

I hear countless believers claim they are not under Law, and yet profess to be sinners and confess sin before God. How is this possible for those who claim they are not under the Law, when sin is the transgression of the Law?


Law That Christ Fulfilled
  
In the Nt, we love and worship Christ and he gives us his grace to love and obey.---john9346 on 5/11/17

John
Now you have me confused. You say your not under Gods laws, and yet you say through Grace, you love....and Obey.
Obey what?

I'm confused because it can't be Gods commands, because that would be the Law, and you are not under the Law.



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