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Gospel Based Upon Genesis
  
How can we understand the reality of the Incarnation without knowing that the babe in Bethlehem was the Creator of the World. And why did He take on human nature to die for our sins? Precisely because He was "the last Adam", coming to conquer the physical death brought by "the first man, Adam" (1 Cor. 15).


Gospel Based Upon Genesis
  
Even doctrines like the Virginal Conception can be traced to Genesis. When God was pronouncing judgement on Adam, Eve and the Serpent, He also promised a Saviour. Genesis 3:15 is the "Protevangelion", the first mention of the Gospel in the Bible. Here, the coming Seed of the Woman would crush the head of the serpent. Since biblical genealogies went through the male line, this was a prophecy of someone who didn't have a human father.


God Uses Floods Famines
  
Atheist, why is your idol Dawkins afraid of real opposition? Best-selling Christian author Dinesh DSouza wrote:
"To be honest, I find your behavior extremely bizarre. You go halfway around the world to chase down televangelists to outsmart them in an interview format that you control, but given several opportunities to engage the issues you profess to care about in a true spirit of open debate and inquiry, you duck and dodge and run away. ...

"If not, you are nothing but a showman who takes on unprepared and unsuspecting opponents when you yourself control the editing, but when a strong opponent shows up you manufacture reasons to avoid him."


God Uses Floods Famines
  
Atheist: "As you should know, this idea of 'information' was an idea introduced as a straw man by creationists.'

Nonsense. Dawkins wrote in The Blind Watchmaker:

"T]here is enough information capacity in a single human cell to store the Encyclopdia Britannica, all 30 volumes of it, three or four times over."

Leading chemical evolutionist Leslie Orgel, used the equivalent term "specified complexity" ["The Origins of Life" 1973]

"Living things are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity, mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity."


Noah's Flood Was Worldwide
  
Worldwide. That is the only conclusion from the (1) Hebrew of Genesis, (2) New Testament understanding, (3) common sense.

1. Genesis 7:19: "all (Heb. kol) the high mountains under all (Heb. kol) the heavens were covered" Very rarely, a single kol is not universal, but such a *double kol* can be nothing but universal.

2. The NT refers to universality: the flood came and took them all away (Jesus, Matt. 24:39), the flood came and destroyed them all (Jesus, in Luke 17:27), a few, that is eight people, were saved through the water (1 Peter 3:20).

3. Why build an Ark to escape a local flood? Lot and his family just migrated from Sodom.


How Long To Create World
  
Lee justifies his unbelief in Genesis:

"Probably because the more mature Christian has come to realize that God is not limited by our concept of time."

Tell us something we don't know. But He reveals information in Scripture to teach us the truth (2 Tim. 3:16). This means that what God DOES reveal to us means the same to Him as us, otherwise communication is impossible. Or perhaps God means something different from man when he commands against murder, theft, adultery etc.

Of course God doesn't experience the 6 days, 930 years of Adam's life, etc. the same way we do. But the time frame He reveals must be "man's time".


How Long To Create World
  
Lee sayeth:

"Some noticeable Christians in the past such as St. Augustine believed that God created everything simply by calling it into being and did not have to wait 24 hours before each event."

Of course God didn't HAVE to wait. The question is whether He DID wait! Augustine was actually a young-ager.

"Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed." [The City of God, 12(10)]


How Long To Create World
  
The "days before the sun" canard was no problem to Church Fathers and Reformers. E.g. St Basil the Great (4th century) had no problem, when he described the first three creation days in Hexaemeron:

"The water had been gathered into the reservoir assigned to it, the earth displayed its productions, it had caused many kinds of herbs to germinate and it was adorned with all kinds of plants.

"However, the sun and the moon did not yet exist, in order that those who live in ignorance of God may not consider the sun as the origin and the father of light, or as the maker of all that grows out of the earth. That is why there was a fourth day, and then God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven"


Darwin's Theory Of Old Earth
  
Lee to Warwick:

//You might also note that not all those who attack your pet beliefs are necessarily compromisers or liberals, but serious and conservative students of the Bible.//
More likely, they have abandoned biblical authority because of fear of secular "science"

//Frankly, it must be your hobby to denigrate other Christians.//

Stop being such a mimophant. You denigrate biblical creationists.

//Of course, I rather doubt those that believe in an young earth will bother to read any of them since they already claim to know the 'truth'.//

More likely, they are just boring old claims of contradictions between Gen. 1 and 2, long ago refuted.


Darwin's Theory Of Old Earth
  
Cliff:

//Warwick, I read the so-called VanBebber/Taylor expose' but also Dr.Ross's rebuttal which makes them look foolish//

I've read both, and also Refuting Compromise which makes Ross look foolish.

For one thing, Ross's article claiming that most church fathers believed in long creation days is no longer to be found on his website.

//Death passed to all "MEN" are the bibles words, //

Sure, and there are fossils of undoubted Homo sapiens "dated" (by methods Ross accepts) to almost 200,000 years ago. This is longer than we can possibly stretch the genealogies of Adam. This alone is enough to refute Rossism.

Gen. 1 also teaches that animals were created vegetarian along with humans.


What Is The Age Of The Earth
  
1st_cliff to Warwick:

"I told you my source (maybe that's the problem?) of early chuch fathers not subscribing to a 24hr.creation "day".

Your source has been proven to be defective, e.g. by the book "Refuting Compromise". But my source is not Hugh Ross, but checking the Church Fathers themselves. Most who commented on the days explicitly said it was 24 hours.


What Is The Age Of The Earth
  
Trav: "The Hebrew word "Erets" meaning country or land, 1700 times is avoided."

It's elementary hermeneutics that the meaning of a word is determined by its *specific context*, not by its meaning in all contexts. I also note the inconsistency: "yom" means 24 hour day in the vast majority of contexts, including those most like Gen. 1.

"Points to a limited LARGE area."

The *repeated* use of universal quantifier "all"/"every" (Hebrew kol) in Genesis 7:1923 points to a global Flood. While single kol may *sometimes* be local, double kol must be universal.

Why build an Ark for a local Flood? Lot and his family just fled from the Sodom area, a local catastrophe.


Genesis Account Mythological
  
Cliff the Spong devotee:

Not that you care about what Christ said, but in Matthew 19:3-6, He cited Gen. 1:27 and 2:24 as real history, and about the same man and woman. He also didn't hallucinate any contradiction. Note that in v.5, Gen. 2:4 is attributed to the One who made Adam and Eve, i.e. the Scripture was the word of God.


Genesis Account Mythological
  
Earl is just elephant hurling. He hasn't the slightest evidence of historical errors. Indeed, Moses was the editor of Genesis from pre-existing ancient accounts, but this editing was under the direction of the Holy Spirit. That's why Jesus said:

"He (Abraham) said to him (the rich man in Hell), 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" (Luke 19:31)

"If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say." (John 5:46-47).


Earth Created In Six Days
  
1st_cliff is just a boring liberal in the Spong mode, who blindly accepts the long-discredited Graf-Wellhausen nonsense.

If Cliff wants to prove that the translation is wrong, let him produce an original that differs. The language in the beginning was Hebrew or something very close, shown by the word plays.

The Hebrew wayyitser in Gen. 2:19 should be rendered "had formed" (pluperfect) as per the NIV, i.e. God *had formed* the animals which he brought to Adam to name, then God made Eve. No contradiction.


Earth Created In Six Days
  
1st_cliff

//Warwick, Yom, Beyom, now we"re getting into semantics.//

As we should! This debate is about the meaning of words in their context, which is what "semantics" means.

//Written vowels were not part of early Hebrew script!//

Again irrelevant, because the consonants were enough to differentiate the plain yom from the prepositional phrase beyom/bayom, the latter has a prefixed letter beit.


Earth Created In Six Days
  
1st_cliff asks of Warwick:

"Why would you imagine that god was in some kind of "time-bind"???"

He wasn't. God could have created everything in 6 femtoseconds. But He spread it out over 6 days to give a pattern for our working week (Ex. 20:8-11).

"... the estimated no.of species are between 30-50 million!"

Did you count? Actually, estimates vary, considering that under 2 million are actually named. And these are just man-made distinctions in many cases, since the so-called different species and sometimes even different genera interbreed. So why should we interpret Genesis according to a fallible man-made classification scheme?


Christian Home Schooling Best
  
Gary

Where is this *in the Bible*? The "socialization" myth is self-serving on the part of teachers unions, because their teachers will scream at the kids, "you're here to learn, not to socialize."

In reality, homeschooled kids learn to deal with people of widely different ages. Government school "socialization" involves artificially age-segregated herds that have no application to adult life. And "socialization" in practice often means peer pressure and bullying.


Earth Created In Six Days
  
1st_cliff

That is a half truth. Strong's gives many meanings of "day", and most of them are normal-length. But this is not enough: not all meanings will fit a specific context. Dr Don Carson's book Exegetical Fallacies explains your fallacy as:

Unwarranted adoption of an expanded semantic field. The fallacy in this instance lies in the supposition that the meaning of the word in a specific context is much broader than the context itself allows and may bring with it the words entire semantic range.

BTW, Koehler and Baumgartner's standard Hebrew-Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT) specifically states that Gen 1:5 as a day of twenty-four hours.



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