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What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

John 15:15: If ye love ME, keep MY commandments.

Note that this was Jesus speaking. What commandments did HE mention? Love God, Love your neighbor, and a new one - love each other as I have loved you.

Again - are the Laws of Moses God's commandments or not? If they aren't, why did Jesus put them on the same level? And if they are, why don't YOU put them on the same level?


Give Up 501(c) 3 Status
  
Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: NO. The Government would use the money for a host of immoral sins.

So what? When your employer pays you wages, it's up to YOU how you spend them. When you buy bread at the store, it becomes yours, and the store doesn't care how you use it - and the money you pay becomes theirs, and you have no say in how it is used. This is how the economy works. Once you pay taxes, they becomes the government's to use as the government sees fit.

Rome used its revenues to conquer other countries, enslave their peoples, support pagan temples, and impose their pagan beliefs on others. Did Jesus say "Don't pay taxes because they are used for evil purposes"? No. He said "Render unto Caesar".


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

If you keep insisting that we are required to obey the Ten Commandments because they are God's Law, but we aren't required to obey the Law of Moses, because that is man's law, let me remind you that when Jesus was asked what the greatest commandments were, he did not mention any of the Ten, but instead, quoted two from Moses: Love God, and Love Your Neighbor. Apparently Jesus DID think the Law of Moses was the Law of God, and he DID think it was important.


What Is The Curse Of Ham
  
Google: "curse of Ham".

Ham gransgressed, so Noah cursed his son Canaan instead. This is part of the ancient tradition of "the father eats sour grapes, and the son's teeth are set on edge" mentality that goes back as far as the Fall - children are punished for their parents' transgressions, for many generations to come, or somebody else is. It's also common in other cultures. Zeus was a notorious philanderer, but instead of his wife Hera taking it up with him, she persecuted his innocent son Heracles. Man sins, God destroys most innocent animals. Saudi terrorists blow up the World Trade Center, Bush attacks... Iraq.


Friends With The Backslidden
  
Many people go through difficult times (by their own fault or not), and often lose most of their friends. The few who stick with them are very telling. Note Jesus's one parable that dealt with friendship - the Good Samaritan. Here was a person who was willing to be a friend, and go significantly out of his way to help even a total stranger from a different religion and culture - even through others who were closer and should have helped just walked away.

After the PTL scandal, most Christians abandoned Tammy Faye Bakker (because, you know, sin). The only people who stood by her were... drag queens - people she and her husband would have denounced and ridiculed. They were the Samaritans in this case, while Christians were the Pharisees.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

You wrote: Then you aren't a Christian either.

Please show chapter and verse where Christians are required to keep the Law. Gal 3:29 mentions nothing about it.

Do you really keep your wife in the garage? That's not part of the Ten Commandments.

Women are to be kept out of the house during their time of the month. That is part of Jewish law. Why don't YOU keep it?

What denomination are you?

I do not promote any specific denominational views here, because what I personally believe has no bearing on what others ought to believe. What the bible actually says (or doesn't say) does.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

There are "Christians" who believe they are free to lie, cheat, and steal, because they are not under the law. I am not one of those.

I am not a Jew, so Jewish law does not apply to me.

Do you make your wife live in the garage once a month? Do you stone your neighbors to death if they dare to work on Saturday? If not, what denomination are you that you feel no obligation to keep God's Law?

I have lived most of my life in this country. I am subject to its laws. I am subject to its economic and political trends. About the only thing that separates me from being an American citizen is that I am not allowed to vote, and I can be deported if I am convicted of a felony.


Who's The Elect
  
This is an epistomological argument. People can be divided into three categories:

1) The fortunate. Those who are saved (or sane, or whatever criterion you choose) and know it.
2) The unfortunate. Those who are unsaved etc. and realize this.
3) The deluded. Those who are unsaved etc. but are sufficiently deluded to not realize this.

Anyone who believes he is unsaved is clearly 2. However, anyone who firmly believes he is saved could be either 1 or 3, with no subjective way to tell the difference.

This is why there are so many different religions and cults. Many people who are 3 believe they are 1. They may have great faith, but because what they believe is wrong, it will do them no good.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

These REPUBLICANS suggest robbing you of what you paid - talking about cuts to Social Security and Medicare, raising retirement age, etc. to pay for other programs, forgetting Social Security is independent of other federal funds. The only way that works is by raiding the Social Security fund. Also note illegal immigrants cannot collect Social Security. You consider the disabled robbers who don't play by the rules? I am now disabled, but I paid into the system for years. This is how insurance works - you pay when you don't need it, and collect when you can't afford it.

What boards did Obama set up to make people die? TRUMP Care will deprive 23 million of health insurance, and kill tens of thousands. Pot, kettle, black.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

I am NOT an antinomian. We are not obligated to "thou shalt not steal" because the Law NEVER applied to us, as we are not Jews - but we ARE obligated to because "love thy neighbor" DOES apply to us.

You are not robbed by the poor either, since you are not obligated to give money to them. If you call social programs robbery because your tax dollars go to the poor without your consent, remember that MUCH larger federal subsidies go to corporate subsidies and tax breaks - also without your consent.

Deregulation, which Republicans constantly push, benefits big corporations, while harming the environment, which hurts us all (Remember Flint, and fracking?)


Give Up 501(c) 3 Status
  
Steveng:

You must follow the laws of ALL jurisdictions where you live. If you live in San Diego, you must follow God's laws, AND U.S. federal laws, AND California state laws, AND San Diego city laws.

Satan has infiltrated and divided christiandom up into over 60,000 denominations each having their own ritulas, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided?

Why do you constantly harp on the 3% differences between the Christian denominations, while ignoring the 97% of doctrine that they all share? This is similar to racists who focus on the 0.01% of differences between races rather than the 99.98% that they share in common. Why do you always have to be so negative? Read Phillipians 4:8.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

The question then is, who covet and steal more - the rich, or the poor? Look at the federal budget - the amount dedicated to social programs like welfare, food stamps, and public health care is a very small percentage (in the single digits), while corporate welfare (subsidies to rich corporations) is larger, and the military is largest of all. Yes, some poor may "rob the rich", but the rich rob the poor far more. The Bible never condemns the former, but it DOES condemn the latter (e.g. joining land to land, moving boundary marks, etc.)

If Marxism (which we don't have here) is theft, unbridled capitalism (which we do) is even worse theft.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

You wrote: Sin vs. righteousness is indeed a black/white issue. No SDA should join the muddy waters gang.

Yes, I'm sure if you were there when Jesus was confronted with the woman taken in adultery, YOU would have educated him in the proper punishment about adultery, and thrown the first stone, because after all, adultery is either black or white - like all other sin, there can be no middle ground, can there be?

We are to care for the poor through our churches - not through government parasites.

How many church bake sales does it take to treat one person for cancer?


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

You have such one-dimensional thinking. No wonder extreme thinkers like you (both left and right) frequently throw the baby out with the bath water.

Yes, there is definitely right and wrong, but things are rarely 100% black or 100% white. Even when God sent the flood to wipe out most of the earth, he saved Noah and his family, and a couple of animals from each species. If God used such black and white thinking as you do, he would just have wiped the slate clean and started from scratch.

I do not muddy the waters. I merely make people see that the water is ALREADY slightly muddy. To expect distilled water from the lake is delusional.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

You wrote: It is as if you think that the fourth Commandment need not be kept because the length of days is unclear.

Yet another useless straw man to demolish. When have Cluny and/or I ever suggested that the lengths of creation days has anything to do with whether or not the fourth commandment should be obeyed?

Exo 20:8-11 is perfectly clear, written to humans by Jesus Himself and defining the human days of the week.

What do "human days of the week" have to do with Genesis 1? For most of that week, humans didn't exist, and for part of it, neither did the sun (which is how we NOW measure days), so it's clear that the way that WE now measure days was inadequate for the first few.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
Jerry6593:

You wrote: You seem to want to make every issue cloudy, confused, unclear and debatable, so that when you violate God's word it doesn't seem so bad.

Please show me WHERE I "violate God's word".

Look at the woman taken in adultery. Mosaic law was clear: she was to be stoned. Did Jesus cast the first stone? He could have. Yet he didn't, because the situation was more nuanced. Why was the man she was with not also being stoned? Nobody ever asks THAT question. Clearly the fact that the Pharisees were stoning her and not him indicates that something else was going on.

Genesis says creation took 6 days, but not now long those days were. WHERE did I say he didn't mean "thou shalt not?".


God Wakes Me Up
  
KBlystone:

You wrote: What's disturbing to me is the lack of "brotherly LOVE". Some are just plain rude and condescending.

Sadly, many people on here are more interested in pushing their own agenda and/or proving that they are right, than answering in love - and such attitudes drive people away. Paul rightly penned this scathing indictment to the church in Romans 2:24: For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

(Also, note that this particular blog topic was abandoned - the last reply to it was 4 years ago today!)


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
michael:

That is black-and-white thinking. If manuscripts are mostly reliable, and translations are mostly accurate, then the Bible is mostly the inerrant Word of God. Is that not sufficient? Paul said we see through a glass darkly. If we look through a blurry glass at something, no matter how perfect it is, our vision will be imperfect. If the original is slighty imperfect, it doesn't impact our already imperfect vision. If you are old and hard of hearing, a cassette sounds as good as a CD. If you're dying of thirst, dirty pond water tastes as good as distilled. People insist on unattainable perfection here, yet in every other aspect of life, imperfection is not only acceptable, it is the norm. The world is not a black and white place.


What Is Apophtatic Theology
  
michael_e:

Yes. You can't properly study Genesis 1:1 unless you can reliably know the original said "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" and not "In the middle, Bob roasted weenies and beans" - both because the Hebrew words are essentially what existing manuscripts said they are, and that the Hebrew words there mean what scholars for thousands of years have said they mean. If we can't know "Elohim" means "God", for example, how can we possibly study this?

Note that scripture makes us wise by our studying it - not the other way around. We must FIRST know what scriptures actually are and what the words mean, before we can understand them.



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