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Rapture Happening In My Life

How many believe the rapture and second coming will take place in your lifetime? What Biblical passages make it clear to you that this is that period in time.? What world events seem to indicate the end times? Are you ready?

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Thanks Mark E.
God Bless you!
---Pastor_Jim on 11/16/09

Mark E, thank you brother, will see you on other blogs Peace. Hey, where did you get that great name? Ha.
---MarkV. on 11/16/09

MarkV, Rod4Him, Pastor_Jim:

Since there is one post left, I will use it to thank each one of you for discussing this subject in a very mannerly way.

As we do not see eye to eye on this subject, let us agree that Jesus is returning and that we need to be ready for His return.

I like you, do not really care about escatology. My real calling is making disciples, in the 2 Tim 2:2 way. But I encourage each man that I work with to make sure of his salvation, to daily evaluate himself and to root out any hidden sin and fully embrace the Savior and all that He wants from us.

I pray the same for each of you, that your walk will be strengthened, and that your joy increased by the knowledge of Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/16/09

Mark E. I am not laughing at any stretch of the imagination. This is serious stuff.

My short eschatological (spelled right) view is that Jesus Christ is coming again, and all people will have to give an account for their lives, believers included.

When that happens, no one knows.

Believers should be ready and living for Christ.

I am not so concerned about end times stuff as I am about what Christ wants today. How do we live godly in Christ Jesus today. Such as, who do I need to forgive and the grace to do it. When do I stand up for what is right.

BTW, I am not so concerned about your views as for people who read these blogs, so they will see the truth.
---Rod4Him on 11/14/09

Mark E.

No one is laughing at you. In fact I feel sadness you continue to play devils advocate. That is why I am finish. I will not cast "pearls before swine. NO I am not calling you a swine. But when one realizes that the other person is just playing with you and will not listen, then dust you feet and move on.

I told you several times to read ALL of Rev 7. The writing is in Aorist tense, The saints are also sealed /protected (whatever you wish to call it) and go through the trib unharmed(Jews/Gentiles).
Read Rev7:14 These are the ones who come out of the Great Tribulation

There is nothing left for this servant of God to say.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/14/09

Mark E. I want you to know that I would never laugh at anyone expense. Especially you. You have answered very kindly always to me so please this discussions are good because we can all give what we have and no one has to change their minds. All they have to do is look at the material, compare it to Scripture and if it has any kind of substance then go from there, if not then life goes on.
I never thought this topic of the end times was very important in the beginning. I concentrated on everything except end time prophecy. But the topic is very hot right now and I thought we could discuss the passages. We can stop and I am fine with that. Thank you for answering and peace.
---MarkV. on 11/14/09

MarkV, Rod4Him, Pastor_Jim:

I am glad you all got a good laugh at my expense.

What you have failed to do is convince me in any way Pre-Trib is incorrect.

What you have also failed to do is explain your own excatological views. Please tell me so I can shoot holes in them.

Especially you Pastor_Jim. I told you in the last post that you read INTO verses, and I am sure you disagree. But it is plain to see that you do, otherwise how would you invent the "sealing of the martyrs" out of the sealing of the 144K.

Luke 21:36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to ESCAPE all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man"
---Mark_Eaton on 11/14/09

Rod4Him, No, I am saying that Christ coming again will happen no matter what a person believes, but when he comes it will be a glad welcome to the obedient, but a horrorable awakening to the disobedient: either, 1) "Alleluia! for the Lord God omnipotent reigns. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give glory to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready." Or, 2) "saying to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of his wrath is come, and who is able to stand?" Rev.19:6,7+ 6:16,17.
---Eloy on 11/14/09

Rod4him, you are correct. That is why I told Mark E. to go slow. Take a course where you don't throw verses from one end to the other, and this way you can cover the whole picture. There is a lot to be said about the Second Coming of Christ. In the case of Matthew, when the believers are caught up, we are told that all who were left parished as they did in the times of Noah. And if they parished, who is going through this tribulation they are talking about? So by going throw the passages that speak explicitly first, then one can go to those passages that speak implicitly. Passages that speak implicitly may or maynot mean a certain thing. That is why we have to take our time going through this.
---MarkV. on 11/14/09

Rod4him,That was a great post!

Another Pastor was Preaching Pre Trib to his congregation and as he went through all the verses concerning the end times. Suddenly in the middle of his sermon, He stop and choked, realizing it was not biblical. The second half of that sermon he was recanting this Heresy and realized it was current fad bunk.

MARKE, I notice as other pre trib and other who have a false agenda do. They all get pre-occupied with Revelations, because it is in apocalyptic style writing and in Aorist time sequences.

As Rod and I said, we are now going in circles and it will go on forever. So I told you the Truth on this, as did Rod and others. But I my case I am finish explaining and will move on. I did my job.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/14/09


You are reading INTO the passages in Rev 7.

The 144K are natural born Jews.

The 144K are the only ones sealed. This word SEALED is not used anywhere in Rev. 6 or Rev. 7 except in its association with the 144K.

You cannot associate the sealing of the 144K with the great multitude in Rev 7:9. No way they are connected. They are two different groups having two different purposes.

The great multitude has come out of the Tribulation resulting in praise to Jesus.

The 144K are going into the Tribulation. We see this in Rev 14 where they are with Jesus on Mt. Zion.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09


I posted to you back a ways, three Scriptures, Dan. 12:1, 1 Thes. 1:10, and Rev. 3:10.

These Scriptures do not show a Pre-trib rapture but a rapture from the "wrath to come".

It is the definition of the "wrath to come" that is currently under debate.

I also believe there are people who do not believe these Scriptures show any "rapture" at all.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09

Generally, when people talk about the pretrib rapture, they do go in cirlces.

It's called circular reasoning. Pretrib is true because this verse says it's true, and the other verse says that verse is true, so see, it's true.

I don't mean to be so hard on the pretrib rapture folks, but I feel I got saved out of that teaching. That's a bit strong as I was saved while I was taught it, but I could never buy it.

The freedom I had when reading the Bible was tremendous when I got away from it. To believe pretrib, one needs to read lot of other supporting books/literature to follow it. Or let someone teach it to you (Mark E. no offense intended).
---Rod4Him on 11/13/09

MARK E. I think we're going on circles. Did you bother reading all of Rev7 or just a verse?

Rev7 continues with the process and in Rev7.9 are the Gentile Saints. YES, the dead are sealed also, you speak of physical death. This has no meaning to Christ. He also spoke to the dead in the 1st Resurrection as well.

REV 7 is also proof that both Jews and Gentile comprise The Church and are sealed and resurrected together. It just makes total sense.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/13/09

MarkE. Maybe I missed it, but where did you say the scriptures reveal a pretrib rapture? I know once you mentioned Matt 24, however, we didn't spend much time there analyzing the context.

Please use one scripture at a time as moving from passage to passage gets confusing quick.
---Rod4Him on 11/13/09

Eloy, maybe I miss understood your point, but are you saying people have to believe in a rapture (perhaps pretrib) to be saved?
---Rod4Him on 11/13/09

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Which of the twelve tribes are you from?

As I read the sealing of the 144k in Rev. 7, I read these as Jewish, not the church, but natural born Jewish men. Very specific to the tribes.

I cannot agree that this is the church. Your assessment that it does sounds like Jehovah's Witness to me.

I also do not read ANYTHING about the martyrs under the throne being sealed. They are DEAD, what are they to be sealed from?
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09

To them "who look" for him will he appear a second time. This means that he will still come again, even when a person is not looking for him, but he will not come to receive that person into paradise but rather he will come and condemn that person who has is not prepared or ready for his appearing. Jesus said, "Nevertheless when I come again, will I find faith on earth?"
---Eloy on 11/13/09


You said "Rev 20:4 appears to be referring to the time of the Trib. Ok, Rev 20:5 says, This is the first resurrection. Assuming a consistency between passages and pretrib, how can this be the first? Sounds like Rev 20:5 nulifies your pretrib."

Would not Jesus be the first resurrection?

No, it is the first resurrection of two resurrections listed in this passage. There is no definite article on the word, so it does not say "THE first resurrection". John says it like he is counting. This is the first resurrection...this is the second resurrection...

And I keep my focus on Jesus. Why else study this stuff. I do not look at Nostradmus or other mystics for truth. My eyes are only on Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09


Your connection of Matt. 24 to the story of Noah is a good one, although you are seeing things a little askew.

God did rescue the righteous. Noah and his family were saved from the flood. They did not go through the flood on the ground, but were saved from it.

Also, the ones left in the flood are the same ones left in the Matt. 24 passage, the unrighteous. God took Noah and his family from the world and left the rest of the world to be destroyed. The same exact wording as in Matt. 24, one taken and the other left.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09

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Mark E, one thing I wanted you to notice is that I put down passages that are not metaphors, typological allusions, allegories, symbolic, or parables. I put down the words of Jesus who spoke explicitly to the disciples. In a manner which you didn't have to make up or interpret anything that hard to understand. I wanted to clearly explain to you what these passages teach.
What I was going to do was to go through the rest of the passages of end times with you concerning the next things to look at, until I got to Revelation. Because when interpreting Types, Prophecy, and Apocalyptic literature one has to have some knowledge in how to interpret correctly and how to distinguish typology from symbolism and allegory.
---MarkV. on 11/13/09

17th day of the second month H append to be May 21, 2011 of our Gregorian Calendar.
---ROSALIE on 11/13/09

Why would God use the Gregorian calendar? Seems to me He would use the Jewish calendar.

Since the year is 5770 in the Jewish calendar, it does not fit your hypothesis.

However, Orthodox Jewish rabbis do see the six days as you have seen them and expect the Messiah on the seventh day, or year 6000 in the Jewish calendar.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09


What you lack, is any connection with the book of Revelation. If Jesus gave this book to us we should understand it and the other last-day passages in connection with each other.

You have pointed out the magnitude of the Matt 24 passage but have not considered where it occurs in Revelation.

If you look at the sixth seal (Rev 6:12-17) you will see that the sun blackens, the moon is blood, the stars fall from the sky AND the sky is split apart like a scroll was when it is rolled up. Split from side to side, east to west. Just like Matt. 24.

And the whole world sees and fears God. Think of that. God is seen as having a hand in this. God magnifies himself like Eze 38:23.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/13/09

Mark E. I will stop for now for others are posting too and you have others to respond to if you wish. I know you are swamp with comments. But take it slow and be patient. In this topic it takes to be patient and slow in order not to miss anything. Thank you brother, blessings.
---MarkV. on 11/13/09

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Many verses proves. It will occur in our days May 21, 2011. The reason is that in Gen 7:4 related to 2 Pet 3: 3-9. God told Noah the exact date of the flood 7 days before flood, but that has twofold meaning the flood as well as end of the world. Its seems God is telling that there will be 7000 years for creature to get safe in Jesus Christ (ARK)In 2 Peter 3:8 Its says that 1000=1 day. 7 days x 1000 =7000-4990 = 2010 + 1 = 2011 A.D. In the Noah s calendar...17th day of the second month H append to be May 21, 2011 of our Gregorian Calendar.
---ROSALIE on 11/13/09

Mark E. 5 continue:
it get's better. As Jesus continued in Matthew 24-36-44 after reading the passages you will see that Jesus compared His return to the sudden descent of billions of tons of water upon lost sinners in Noah's day, so also will be will the Coming of the Son of Man, Matt. 24:39. Now think about it. Did Noah and his family vanish before the flood? No, they walked visibly into the ark. And what about those who were left behind after the door of ark had closed? Did they have a second chance? They were left dead. They did not escape. After saying the flood came, and took them all away, Jesus said, "so also will the Coming fo the Son of Man be"
---MarkV. on 11/13/09

You are correct in drawing a line from 1Thes 1:10 to Rev 6 16-17. In both cases the verses are talking about the wicked, not the Elect. Remember Rev7 is "The Pause" where the saints are seal for their safety. Rev 6:15 tells us what AND WHO this is about. There are saint included in 6:15 as this is before Rev7 The Sealing. Then the Wrath continues throughout the rest of the tribulation, the saints, as in the Passover, are sealed from the Final Wraths which is the total destruction of the wicked, the earth, heaven etc. After the final destruction of the wicked, earth, heavens, is completed. Then the Dead and the Living are resurrected like Jesus. New Earth/New heaven. Google or Wiki- Tribul.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/12/09


DAN 12:2 is a general statement. It is about All the dead

The Dreams given to Daniel are broad in their spectrum. They cover many Kingdoms (eras), not just the Greek period, but also the Messianic and the End Times.

Dan 11 is this case, you are right that is refers to Antiochus Ephiphanes and the Maccabeans it also refers to 70AD and finally to the End Times and the Antichrist.

The same is true of the Abomination of Desolation. Which is about all these time periods as well.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/12/09

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God is the only one who knows the date of the rapture. Romans 11:25,26 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, and thus all Israel will be saved, just as it is written. A prominent pastor once shared that every time he gave an alter call he was prepared for the rapture. He believed God set a quota on a certain number of saved Gentiles and when the last one was saved, the rapture would take place. Personally I have no opinion. I just want to be ready!
---Bob on 11/12/09

Mark E 4 continue please:
Right after the warnings about false prophets He says, "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert, go not forth. In the secret chambers believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shines even unto the west, so shall also, the Coming of the Son of Man be" Matt. 24:26,27. Far from been a secret event, Jesus Himself compares His return to the brillent flashing of electricity charged bolts of lightning hurling across the sky. Guess what? the original translation of "coming" in both events, 1 Thess. and here in Matthew is the Greek word" Parousia." This same event talk about through Matthew and Jesus Words.
---MarkV. on 11/12/09


Yes, Rev 3:10 has two parts which I tried to clarify for you. With the 125 ltd, its difficult. Scripture has 4 facets (PashatLiteral)(Remez hint)(Drash search)(Sod hidden. We will only deal with 2 here. The whole verse is for that Church (Pashat) the whole verse is also for 2000yrs(Remez)that's us. If you have a NASB it would say in the Marginal notes the literal word is TEMPTATION 1st verse and TEMPT in the 2nd verse. It would not flow in the English so its listed on the side. The Hour of Temptation is any point which we are tempted and Christ promises those who persevere that he will rescue us from these temptations, as long as we abide in Him and stay firm in our faith(Loyal). Hope this helps.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/12/09

MarkE, Rev 20:4 appears to be referring to the time of the Trib.
Ok, Rev 20:5 says, "This is the first resurrection."

Assuming a consistency between passages and pretrib, how can this be "the first?"

Sounds like Rev 20:5 nulifies your pretrib.

How many resurrections do you see?

I can't help but think that although these discussions are interesting, they seem to be endless discussions going nowhere.

If one is not careful, people will focus on arguments rather than on Christ.

How does "knowing" the exact specific detailed events of the "end times" help one live Godly in Christ Jesus.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good healthy Biblical discussion.
---Rod4HIm on 11/12/09

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Mark E. 3 continue:
I was quoting 1 Thess. 4:16-5:3 in the context. Next I will go to Matthew where you say its a secret coming. Matthew 24. begins with Christ sitting on the Mount of Olives. The disciples asked Him, "Tell us, when will these things be?" They were refering to Jesus return and the end of the world. They ask Jesus to clarify the Truth. Jesus first said, "Take heed that no one deceives you" why? Because Jesus knew there was going to be a great deal of deception right before His Coming. He warned them four times in a single sermon. The Lord said, "For false christ and false prophets, will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect" Matt. 24:24.
---MarkV. on 11/12/09


I will take these one at a time.

Daniel 12. Contrary to your thought, Daniel 11 is not about the Tribulation, it is about Antiochus Ephiphanes. History is able to track AE exploits and they correspond nearly word for word. See 1 Maccabees.

Daniel 12:2 talks about the resurrection. I believe you are saying that the verse corresponds to the resurrection in Rev. 20:4.

I do not agree. The dead described in Rev 20:4 are clearly from the Tribulation only. These who did not take the mark and were beheaded, and did not worship the beast and were martyred.

They are not the dead from 33 AD to today.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/09


1 Thes. 1:10 in it you say that the wrath described here is God's judgment. I am assuming the judgment that is given at the white throne judgment.

I do not agree.

Rev 6:16-17 "and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Two points. Wrath is clearly stated here and we are not even halfway to the white throne judgment. Second, notice the word "day" is used. The remainder of the book of Revelation cannot fit into one single 24-hour period. I mention this because "last day" passages also do this.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/09


In Rev 3:10 you mentioned that this was written for only one church and that the "testing" was going to happen immediately.

I do not agree.

The sentence structure has two complete and separate phrases.

The first phrase says "'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing". This is the promise specifically to the church.

The second phrase says "that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth". This is written about the Tribulation, the testing for those who dwell on the earth. See Rev 6:10, 8:13, 11:10, 12:12, etc.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/09

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Mark Eaton,

Dan 12:1 Clearly showS that the Saints are at the end of the Tribulation as the previous verses talks about the Antichirst and the Tribulation. Note also the next verses talk about the dead rising at the same time. The same exact sequence told by The Prophets, Christ, John, and Paul.

1Thes 1:10 Here again you are confusing Wrath with Tribulation. I explained the differences to you. Yes he will rescue us from the Wrath of God (The Judgement!)

Rev 3:10 Written to a single church.The hour of "TESTING(TEMPTATION) which is about" (right then) is not "The Tribulation". "about to come upon the whole world to TEST (TEMPT) those who dwell on Earth". This can be extended to all 2000yrs.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/12/09


Your point is another area of confusion about escatology.

Is your definition of the second coming of Jesus the passage in Rev 19:11-19 or is it Matt 24:29-31?

I see these as two separage events.

The Matt 24 passage is followed by the examples to be ready for His coming. His appearing will be unexpected, as a thief in the night.

The Rev 19 passage is preceeded by the marriage of the Lamb. Believers should expect to be present for that feast because we are His bride. We also will accompany Jesus on His return a few verses later, an event fortold in the OT.

Do you see the two events?

One appearing and one triumphant return?
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/09

I like MarkV's approach.

What I like is the simple plain explanation of Scripture. It sounds like, "This is what I do understand, and I won't let what Scripture doesn't say confuse what it does say."

If I am understanding Mark right, I agree with that approach.
---Rod4Him on 11/12/09

Brother Mark E, I will start with 1 Thess. 4:16-5:3, without having to put the whole passages because of space, after reading those passages we come out with,
1. Jesus Christ will literally descend from Heaven with a shout. Nothing invisible or silent about His Coming.
2. The dead in Christ will rise first and true believers will be "caught up" just like Jesus Christ Himself was visibly "taken Up" into the sky almost 2,000 years ago, found in Acts 1:9-11. (This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you have seen Him go into Heaven"
3. The cataclysmic "day of the Lord" will overwhelm the lost, "and they shall not escape" v. 5:3.
---MarkV. on 11/12/09

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Mark E. 2 continue Please:
When taken literally, these words describe the visible Second Coming of Jesus Christ, not a secret Rapture. Immediately after his solemn prediction of Christ's return as a midnight thief, Paul wrote to the believers: "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of Darkness" 1 Thess. 5:4-5). This is but one part of my understanding of the Second Coming of Christ. I will touch each topic in this end times so that you can Comment what you like. I will put the Second phase of my answer to you brother.
---MarkV. on 11/12/09


Here are just a few:

Dan 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time, and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued"

1 Thes 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come"

Rev 3:10 "'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth"
---Mark_Eaton on 11/12/09

Mark E. Yesterday you asked, "Is there anyone out there who wishes to explain to me why Pre-trib Rapture is false?"

You asked. I assumed you wanted to discuss, and not to just argue.

I responded to your open question. However, proving a negative is challenging. That's like saying, "Prove animals don't go to heaven." I can't find a verse that says that, so I guess animals go to heaven.

Back to the discussion, I think I understand more what you are saying, That the wrath of God is against the people of the earth and not against believers, so He takes them out.

Where do you get that? An assumption from Revelation?

Is your eschatology view a new teaching?

Remember, you asked.
---Rod4Him on 11/11/09

I believe there is a rapture because the Bible describes 2 seperate occurances of CHrists coming. In one is it quick and secret and the other the whole world see him and mourns.

I dont however see anything concrete that says he will come get us at the BEGINNING of the tribulation period. Instead he seems to let us know in Matthew 24 that we will be delivered up and some will be killed. Our own families will turn against us and many CHristians will be 'offended', which to me suggests they turn against God. Possible because they believed in pre-trib rapture.

I do however believe we will be protected along with the 144k Jews during that time. Possibly one of the reasons the lost will hate us so much during that time.
---JackB on 11/11/09

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MARK EATON SAID: "What is different is who is the target of the tribulation. Most "modern" day theologists believe it is about the church. Pastor_Jim believes this".


After the tribulation on the last day (as Jesus repeatedly said) will be the resurrection of the all believers Jews and Gentiles as one church. That is the Church of Jesus Christ.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/11/09

All I am doing is pointing out the problems with the pretrib rapture theory.

To be consistent, one can't mix up the Jews and the church and maintain a consistent pretrib view.
---Rod4Him on 11/11/09

No, what you are doing is pointing out the problems with someone else's theory and applying it to my theory. My theory is not the same as theirs and not the same as what you have heard. It is not the same as the "left Behind" books. I do not blindly reject all the things said to the Jews or whatever you said in your previous posts.

The whole idea goes back to the purpose of the trumpets and the vials. It is God's wrath against those who dwell on the earth. Not against us whose citizenship is in Heaven.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/11/09

Mark E. It certainly was not my intention to insult you. I think you may hold the rapture teaching too personally. Christ should be our common bond, not a view of eschotology. I thought we were having a mature discussion.

I have heard people say, "If one doesn't believe in the rapture, I doubt if they are saved." So be careful.

All I am doing is pointing out the problems with the pretrib rapture theory.

To be consistent, one can't mix up the Jews and the church and maintain a consistent pretrib view.

As I said before, the basis of pretrib is solely built on the separation of the Jews and the Church. Without a separation, there is no pretrib.
---Rod4Him on 11/11/09


Listen Rod. Everything you have heard or read about "Rapture" theology throw away and do not refer it to me.

What I believe...There is no difference between the church or the martyrs. They are the same, just different (killed vs. died). Their number will likely be fulfilled with Jews not Gentiles.

What is different is who is the target of the tribulation. Most "modern" day theologists believe it is about the church. Pastor_Jim believes this. The Bible does not bear this out. Everything OT and new indicates it is about the Jews, right from the sealed 144K to the two witnesses. Jeremiah describes this as "Jacobs distress".
---Mark_Eaton on 11/11/09

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Mark E,

Revelation 6:11, these martyrs have "white robes." Revelation 7:11 have "white robes." Yet it sounds like you suggest the Rev. 6 are Jews, but you see in Rev 7 the raptured church. I see an inconsistency, unless you are saying the Jews from 6 will join the church later. umm... "White robes" would indicate the same group of people, not two separate people.

However, one has to eisegeses that into the text. One would never get that from reading the passage.

You are "resolute in your understanding" of the rapture, I am resolute in following Christ whatever happens when it happens.
---Rod4Him on 11/11/09

---SANDRA on 11/11/09

I don't believe without a doubt that the world will come to its end while I am still living on it, however I do believe it's more possible now than ever. Best I can tell you is to read the bible. There are many many clues on what is to come before the Lord returns. Happy hunting! (clues I've seen-natural disasters, famine, digital angel, chips in pets, things like these...)
---Katie on 3/29/07

no one really knows when Jesus is coming but as we see things happening we no it is close to the end .I just wont to be prayed up payed up because he said he will come as a thief in the night
---Betty on 9/8/06

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And the Bible says that scoffers would come in the last days saying "where is your Lord, where is the promise of His coming?"
Since so many people (including Christians) are saying this, we must be getting close.
---Rick on 7/27/05

My Mom said that people have been saying the 'end' is coming for as long as she can remember. She's almost 90 yrs. old.
---sue on 7/26/05

Pierr, with all due respect, the Church is not Israel. This may be a common belief, but it cannot be true. This is called "Replacement Theology" and it destroyes the cohesion of the prophetic word.
---Rick on 7/26/05

We should be careful about ridicule when it comes to believing we are in the end times. Jesus commanded us to watch and pray for His return. So even if we weren't in the last days (though I believe we are), we should still watch for His coming.
---Rick on 7/26/05

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Nearly 20 years ago there was a lurid little booklet called "88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Come in 1988" (words to this effect).

Aside from the fact it didn't, the reasons given were rather ridiculous, such as a "solar eclipse of the sun" (as opposed to a lunar eclipse of the sun, or solar eclipse of the moon maybe).

Jesus will get here when He gets here. In the mean time, He tells us, "occupy till I come."
---Jack on 5/29/05

I believe that when you say that the Bible says that the generation that would see Israel become a nation, would see the 2nd coming of Jesus. Israel has been around for some time, how come Jesus has not returned? The reason is as follows. In that instance, Israel is not the politcal jewish nation whch we support so much BUT THE SPIRITUAL ISRAEL = the Christian church made up Messianic Jews and and Gentiles converted to fully accept Jesus as Saviour. Please look into it for yourself but this true!
---Pierr7958 on 5/2/05

When no one knows when Jesus will come. Mt.24:4-31, 1Th.4:14-17
---Ulrika on 5/1/05

I wish I had more space to answer your question, but I watch the news, read the bible and look around and God will have to apologize to Soddom and Gomorah if He doesn't come soon. I have believed all my life that He would come in my lifetime. The Bible says that the generation that sees Isreal become a nation would the see 2nd coming. I suggest that you get a good solid book on Revelation. Just make sure it is solid as there are many counterfits out there that will confuse you. God Bless, Donna
---Donna_Easter on 4/23/05

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I believe if there's a rapture, it will be in my lifetime. But as I study scripture and Church History I'm persuaded that there is no Rapture. That's another subject all together. I do believe there's a second coming,so we need to be prepared for the Tribulation coming. I believe that just like some Jews saw Jesus fulfill propechy, we are seeing his signs appearing. A Great Apostacy, A Rise in Evil, Persecution of the Body of Christ, and I believe the Lawless One's here. This is a large subject so I can't answer it all here, but I will try to see if I can't answer the questions asked me.
---Nicholas on 4/22/05

I'm sure alot of people have your reaction at first, in fact I would have too had I not read a bonifide article on it, and then heard about it on the news some months later. That was at least four or five years back though and I haven't heard of it since. But we Christians know it is bound to happen. So I would just say to the person who wrote the question to be alert and ready, but have peace in knowing that God is with us. His sheep know his voice, and I firmly believe that if the time comes during our lifetime, we will know the signs, and be ready with the grace of God upon our souls.
---Katie on 4/21/05

Katie ... when I first read yuor explanation of the digital angel, I thought what nonsense, and so what?

But the more I think about it the more abhorrent the ides is.

Let alone any biblical significance & mark of the beast etc, it would lead to total control of people ... and of course that is what the Revelation prophesy is about.
---Alan_of_U.K. on 4/20/05

Alan-I apologize if my first response to the question was unclear. I was assuming the readers were aware of the Digital Angel. The reason for bringing up chips in pets was also just to show what technology is leading us towards, not claiming it as a broken seal or anything like that! LOL. Next time I will be more in depth with my comments instead of expecting people to continue my thoughts on their own. :op
---Katie on 4/20/05

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Alan-the digital angel as not been brought on the market yet (as far as I know), but there have been meetings regarding such a thing. It's a chip they want to implant in humans to use as an identity tool. The article said they could only find two places where it would not be poisonous to our systems, the wrist and forehead. I brought it up for the simple fact that technology is leading us toward the mark of the beast, but made no claims that this was the mark.
---Katie on 4/20/05

Read Job 1. Satan was at the Court of God. I would like to make monkey faces to Satan when he sees me securely lodged in Paradise. However, the need is: have we lived like a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt 5), in possession of characteristic of fruit of the HS, and avoiding the mannerism represented by the 7 churches (Rev) which Jesus dislikes and reprimands against. Surely a guarantee to gain of Rapture.
---Pek on 4/18/05

No one knows when Jesus is coming back. We are not promised tomorrow. Look around and you will we are getting closer to the end. I am ready to leave this world behind me, going where the devil cannot find me.
---Rebecca_D on 4/17/05

In First Thesalonians 4:10-13 says that Christ will descend from Heaven with a shout. He will call his own and we will meet him in the clouds. That could happen at any time.
---Victoria on 4/15/05

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Yes i do. The great Apostacy. II Timothy 3:1-5. False doctrines in the churches. I Timothy 4:1-5. Strong delusion that God loves the unrighteous. I Corinthians 6:9-11; II Thessalonians 2:11,12. Increase in sexual deviation. Romans 1:21-32. The obvious prophetic sign that we're presently in the last days is the great increase in sexual deviation, the same thing that brought God's judgment upon Sodom and Amorah. i also feel strongly that the self-scanners in the grocery stores is something the Beast will use. Revelation 13:16-18.
---Eloy on 4/14/05

Pek, the events you have described will occur AFTER the Rapture of the Church. They are part of the Great Tribulation period. The Four Horsemen do not come on the scene until after the Church is gone.
---Elder on 4/13/05

When the four plagues as represented by the appearances of the four horses and after you see stars falling from heavens and that there is complete darkness for somedays then your know you are going to be taken up. However, I am still debating whether Jesus comes while you are taken up to meet Him and those that were dead before you or at the time of the antichrist??? later. So may be you will be still alive.
---Pek on 4/13/05

They have been believing this since Christ was crucified so don't hold your breath. The end times signs have also been apparent since then too, so all we have to do is be ever ready and keep serving the Lord.
---Original_lisa on 4/13/05

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Go on Katie, tell us ... what are the Biblical reference to digital angels and chips in pets?

And although I know we put chips in pets, but where have there been digital angels?
---Alan_of_U.K. on 4/13/05

FF ... yes, not just hundreds of years, but 2000 years. The time is obviously getting closer ... mathematics must tell us that ... it is a question of the time dimension.

Personally I do not think the "signs" now are any more persuasive than they have been over previous centuries.

As you say, we must ALWAYS live as if this was our last minute.
---Alan_of_U.K. on 4/13/05

In Matt:24,3 we find most of the answer.
1. False religious prophets/teachings
2. Wars and rumors of war
3. men's hearts failig with fear
4. Peace talks
5. natural disasters (earthquakes, famines,
6. rising crime/violence,
7. moral decadence/intemperance
8. economic difficulties
9. stress
10. gospel preached to all the world-his
final "judgment message" proclaimed
11. JESUS' second coming!
Am I ready? I ask my Saviour to help
every day to live such a life that I might
be ready when he comes.
---Pierre on 4/13/05

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