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Once Saved Always Saved

Is it true that once you are saved you are always saved? (Answer by the Bible only, please)

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MarkV: "Punishment is removed upon repentance." No repentance no salvation. Hating to keep God's Commandments is un-repentance.
---SeventhSeal on 4/14/08

Seventhseal, You said, To remove the punishment of repentance" What is the punishment of repentance? There is no such thing. You made that up somehow. All who are born again believers have to repent. Are you saying some don't? You make no sense. Then you say, "if the commandments were not honorable then Jesus did not have to die to save you" why honorable? What in the world are you talking about?
---Mark_V. on 4/10/08

#2. Seventh: Do the commandments have to be honorable for Jesus to die? What is so honorable about the law? Are you talking about sin? or are you talking about the law? Sin is the breaking of the law. And all have broken the law by commiting sin. Every single person in the world with the exception of Christ. And who are the people you are speaking of that want to keep sinning? Are you talking about believers or unbelievers? Can anyone stop from sinning? Again you make no sense.
---Mark_V. on 4/10/08

Donald, there is no such thing as OCAC. Because many of those who are condemned are redeemed. But once they are saved, they will alway be saved. By the sustaining power of Christ. 1 Cor. 1:7-9, " that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will sustain you to the end, guiltess in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ"
---Mark_V. on 4/9/08

Forgive me for not answering by the Bible, but is this true? "once condemned always condemned?"
---donald on 4/9/08

MarkV: As you said "Only to be a Sacrifice for our sins" Not to do away with the eternal Commandments that reveal sin but only to remove the punishment upon REPENTANCE. The unrepentant will never acknowledge that His Commandments revealing sin should be kept because they want to continue sinning without penalty.
---SeventhSeal on 4/8/08

MarkV: If the Commandments were not Honorable then Jesus did not have to die to save you. IF the Commandments could have simply been declared null no death need have happened. By the fact that Christ died we know that the Commandments are in effect.

Why not declare them null and avoid the cross altogether? ANSWER: Because they are Eternal.
---SeventhSeal on 4/7/08

you said I mock Christ sacrifice and the laws Jesus died defending." Jesus did not die defending the laws. He died for our sins. His sacrifice was for one purpose only, to be a substitute for our sins. The laws are there to show us what sin is. Since no man is perfected at the time of regeneation, we still have the flesh and the ability to sin and God knows that. God who is rich in mercy gave us the Spirit to convict us when we do sin. But we cannot be condemn by the law anymore.
---Mark_V. on 4/7/08

#2. Seventhseal:
The law was given"to make wrongdoing a legal offense" Gal. 3:19
"the law is good if one uses it lawfully" 1Tom. 1:8-11. and serves to some degree as an inhibitor of evildoing.
The law was given "to act as a custodian to bring individuals to Christ" Gal. 3:22-24.
The law was given "to serve as a guideling for godly living" and first John teaches that a true believer does not make sin the practice of his life,
---Mark_V. on 4/7/08

#3 Seventhseal:
and the entire Epistle of James is devoted to teaching that "true saving faith will result in godly behavior" Knowing the aspects and purposes of the law we can better understand Paul's writings on the law. Paul's arguments in Galatians were not against the Law, "but against legalism" That perversion of the law which says that salvation can be obtain by keeping the law."
---Mark_V. on 4/7/08

#4. Seventhseal:
"The Judaizers were attempting to persuade the Galatian believer to mix salvation by Grace with salvation by law" two mutually incompatible systems of faith. Paul traced Israel's history, showing that believers from Abraham on had been saved by Grace, and that no one ever could be saved by keeping the law, since the law was not meant to bring salvation. What the RCC teaches and has spread to other denominations. Salvation by grace and works, just as the Judaizers.
---Mark_V. on 4/7/08

Mark: Exo34:28 "He wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments"
---TS on 3/31/08

MarkV: Doing away with the Commandments you preach away the Savior. You mock His sacrifice to break the Commandments He died defending

He took the penalty (death) nailing the Ordinance Law to the Cross yet Mat5:18 "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (Commandments), till all be fulfilled" Repentance means you acknowledge the Righteousness of the Commandments and strive to keep them. If they are desireable to you then you are Christs.
---SeventhSeal on 3/31/08

MarkV, it is not a question of trusting in ourselves, IMHO. It is a matter of humbling submitting to laws by which we can live and feel secure that everyone else is also obeying them. In this society the lawbreakers are free to sin, and the Christians are told that if they defend themselves they are evil. It would be better all round if everyone obeyed mutuallly, the laws that God put there for our GOOD.
---frances008 on 3/30/08

TS, the first Covenant was not the ten Commandments. The first Covenant with Adam and Eve, was one of works. Do what God said and have eternal life, not do what God said and there would be death. Later when God gave them the ten commandments it was to show them their sin. It was not given to save anyone. Even in the Old Testament people were saved by Grace through faith in the coming Lord.
---Mark_V. on 3/30/08

Seventhseal, if you read what Beja wrote you will get your answer. If all of you could possibly continue life without sinning, then you don't need the justification of Christ. You have your own righteousness. Really, you have no need for the blood of Christ, and His works since you are very capable of keeping every single law. I know you cannot go one day without breaking one. And if you break one, you have broken them all. So good luck, because Christians do not believe in Luck.
---Mark_V on 3/29/08

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All the talk about Old vs New Covenant makes me wonder if
God has changed in any way what he expects of us, ie, his
Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes,
seven which are an abomination to Him: 17:Haughty eyes, a
lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18:A heart
that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19:A
false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among
---Nana on 3/28/08

From what I see, God has always had the same expectation
from us, the same requirements. Here is a question: If the old
covenants do not save, nor saved anyone..., are Abraham,
Jacob, Isaac, Job, and their households saved? By which means?
Where is the Lord Jesus in their salvation?
---Nana on 3/28/08

Mark V, there is a difference between boasting that you keep all the Commandments, and earnestly encouraging others to keep the Commandments in order to save their eternal souls. Those who boast, can be on both sides of this argument. Those that boast that Jesus has covered them in the blood, those that boast that they keep the commandments. All boasting seems just that, boasting, and not helpful.
---frances008 on 3/28/08

Why did Jesus come to earth? Why did God send His Son?

John 15 v 22 If I had not come and spoken to them they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Jesus is the Stumbling Block for sinners who do not repent and change. He came to show the Jews the way. He came to atone for their sins of transgressing the Law. After the atonement, we have to obey the Law all the more. (Not the ceremonial laws).
---frances008 on 3/28/08

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Mark I am free from the Bondage of sin because I Keep the Commandments of God and my stumblings, while I grow in grace, are covered by the Blood of Jesus, who Commanded "Sin no more"

"Sin is transgression of Commandments"

Rev14:12 "the saints: here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"

Throw them away and you remain in Bondage to sin while refusing the Commandments which are the Great Law of Liberty from Sin.
---SeventhSeal on 3/28/08

TS you are living under bondage. Do you not get that the Old Covenant cannot save you, only faith in the Lord Jesus Christ can. His works alone saved you. Your works will never save you. They cannot and have never saved anyone. "For by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast" I came to Christ by faith and faith alone in Christ, with absolutely no works-it was all by what Jesus did.
---Mark_V. on 3/27/08

#2. TS: I simply repented of my sins, believed in who Jesus claimed to be, and then submitted my life to His control. When a person is under the law, he is under bondage. The Old Testament people were under the law of obedience or death. That is why under the law could not save anyone, since everyone sins. You break one you break them all. And everyone, even SDA's sin. That is why the law does not save. Christ saves through His own works because ours are mixed with sin. His are not.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/08

#3. TS: If you think you can accomplish living your life in bondage to the law and make it without sinning then you too are sinless as Christ was. But if you break one not only the ten commandments, but any breaking of the law, you have broken them all. So you can be under bondage to the law, are be under Christ for your life. I choose Christ for my life, because I know already I will sin, though I don't want to sin, I know I will. I put my trust in Him that He will see me through this life.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/08

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#4. TS: You can put your trust in yourself. That is fine with me. But we have a choice, put our faith in Christ or put our faith on ourselves. I know I will fail, so that is not go at all, but Jesus never fails. He will sustain me as He says He will. And I am sorry He had to die for me, but I believe He is resurrected and that Christ lives, not only in my heart but many others.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/08

Mark: Bible clearly says original Covenant is the 10 Commandments. Then Mosaic Sacrificial Law was added. Christ came and died as this sacrifice removing the added sacrificial law and establishing the Covenant through His blood
He died to save you from sin, He did not come to allow you free pass to sin. Sin is the breaking of Commandments. Thus if you do not have Commandments then you have no sin and thus you need no Savior. You are not free to sin but are commanded to "Go and sin no more"
---TS on 3/27/08

T.S. we are under a New Covenant of Grace. The Old Covenant was not good enough to save anyone. Covenant, is a contract that is between God and man. Each contract has different principles that God requires. The New Covenant has nothing to do with what was given in the Old Covenant to the Jews. Jews and Gentles Christians are now included in the New Covenant of Grace. Only the lost are still under the Old Covenant of Works. They can never be saved under that covenant.
---Mark_V. on 3/27/08

Exzuruh, You have introduced Satan into our debate of Holy Scripture, and from your evidence you felt good in doing so to make an argument. Many people do that in defense when anyone brings truth to them and they cannot are refuse to see the Truth of God. You have done the same as they have. Well, you can do that anytime you feel like doing it. What is in your heart you speak.
---Mark_V. on 3/27/08

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I have not once spoken of the people that are in the world I am speaking about people like You. You are the one that keeps turning what I am saying in to something else, I thought only the devil was good at that. Jesus told the Jews they were the devils children, could be some still around.
---Exzucuh on 3/26/08

#2. Exzuruh: You also gave John 15:5 but forgot to explain the context. "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, bears much fruit, for without Me you can do nothing" Why does he abide in Christ because the person can do nothing without Christ. Don't you get it? Those that don't abide are cast out why? Because they cannot do anything without Christ, they don't have Christ, if they did, they would be able to abide, because without Christ they can do nothing.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/08

#3. Exzuruh: they are helpless without Christ. All lost people are helpless and without hope. They need Christ. The Christians abide because they have Christ, and so bear good fruit. If a person does not bear good fruit, he is not saved, because he needs Christ to bear good fruit.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/08

Yet MarkV doesn't believe and obey because he will not Keep God's 4th Commandment but rather argues in favor of the 1st day rather than the Sabbath of the Lord. Now here come all the lame excuses and the reasoning away of God's Commandments.
---TS on 3/26/08

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Exzuruh, you obey because you are saved and love the Lord. Those lost do not obey. Only the believers obey. Don't get both mixed together. You gave Matthew 13:23, "He who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it." Only those that have ears to hear and eyes to see and understand are the one's that receive the seed on good ground. God gave them ears to hear and eyes to see and did I not tell you that? Where did that ability come from? God.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/08

This is the way it is....We bear fruit, we dont produce fruit. We are as branches, we abide in faith of the vine.
Something to think about.
---duane on 3/25/08

John 15:6-8 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, so shall ye be my disciples.Matthew 13:23 he that heareth the word, and understandeth it, which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
---exzucuh on 3/25/08

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

So what is this mister do nothing Gospel, You think our Lord Suffered so you can sit on your behind and teach people to go to hell teaching contrary to the word of the Lord. He will come in a day that you think not and find you buried your cross and taught others to bury theirs and throw you where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
---exzucuh on 3/25/08

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I know where you are coming from, your one of those, I got a doctrine that you do nothing because whats the use because Everything is Gods fault, we can't do anything because he has to do it.
Let me tell you something Mr write a lot and say nothing. When Jesus said, it is finished, it was! And what he did was Gods Love and his Grace but if you do not obey the Gospel you have no part in it and if you do not preach it also you are disobedient.
---Exzucuh on 3/25/08

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

If you are not obeying the gospel you are not part of the House of God. You have to do something to obey doing nothing is not something, and you think I am blind.
---exzucuh on 3/25/08

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds, trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots,

People that do not obey the Gospel are clouds with out water. worthless good for nothing. what good is a cloud without water, it is only taking up space, they are trees with withered fruit, they don't do anything so they dried up,
---exzucuh on 3/25/08

Exzuruh, the believers are under the New Covenant. Not the lost. They are not commandment to do anything since they do not believe the Word of God. God first has to bring them to life. Without God bringing them to life, they will remain lost forever. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God and many hear and do not have faith. God has to give you that faith, thats why they reject Christ. Faith is a gift to those who are born again of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/08

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#2. Exzuruh: How can anyone hear or see God if God does not give them the eyes to see and the ears to hear? Just not possible. The lost are blind. Though you might read the Bible and hear the Word, unless God gives you the ability to hear and see you will never understand the things of God when you are lost. "Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: You have seen all the that the Lord did before your eyes and in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants
---Mark_V. on 3/25/08

#3 Exzuruh: the great trails which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day." Our spiritual life is the work of God. Because of the heart He gives us, we can perceive all the things of God. Without God we can do nothing. Faith that produces no works is not the saving faith God gives all new believers when He brings them to life.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/08

#4 Exzuruh: Saving faith always produces good fruit. Fruit is the evidence of a true believer, but not the cause of his salvation. God is the cause of his salvation. And when God saves someone, He doesn't make any mistakes. He gives the right things to each one of His children. And Jesus promises to sustain us. "For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in Him but also suffer for Him" It is all of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/08

#5 Exzuruh: RCC theology has people commiting works to enter the kingdom of God, gaining grace as they live, and if they sin, they head right to hell losing all their grace, and then if they repent, they are on the road again, and if they sin again and do not confess to a preacher, they go maybe next time to purgatory for a time, and then someone else can do works for you so that you can get out and go to heaven. Not biblical.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/08

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The RCC believes that you are saved by Faith and faith without works is dead and that is taught by the apostles as well as Jesus. You are taking the scripture where Paul is explaining to the Ephesians that Judaism cannot save them. That is works of the Law under Moses. We have a new covenant under Jesus and we obey him to do the works of Faith to Repent believe he is the Son of God,
and be baptized in his name for the remission
of sins and God will give his Holy Spirit to the believer.
---exzucuh on 3/24/08

I don't fully agree with RCC penance, but Jesus told people to do penance. He told the young rich man to give his money to the poor and come and follow him. First of all repentance is not saying you are sorry. It is changing your mind and willingly submitting yourself to be changed by God and not backsliding. When Zacheous repented and gave to the poor and made things right with people he had wronged, Jesus said salvation has come to this house. You know a tree by it's fruit.
---exzucuh on 3/24/08

Don't you know that men are gods, John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? They became gods by disobeying the Father and eating of the tree of knowledge. Cain was told by God not to kill Able , and God would not stop him, he could but he didn't. Because God is righteous and receives only by submission. those who surrender their god status and become a servant by repentance through faith he will accept. those who chose to remain gods will perish.
---exzucuh on 3/24/08

I don't care if you sound mean it doesn't bother me. If want to get your point across you can sound any way you want. But I am not giving you my opinion, a few years ago, people asked me if I would post in my words rather than give scripture, they said they could not understand my point in the scripture, But I can give you scripture to back everything I say and if I can't I will tell you.
---exzucuh on 3/24/08

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Exzuruh, I am sorry if I sounded mean but I am disputing what you wrote as not from the Word of God. I don't know you but can only judge by your answers. And your answers are man centered. I don't know your heart so I don't know if you are a baby Christian or not. But when you said, "You are the one that determines if you are going to be in His hands if you stand there no man can remove you but you can remove yourself" That is a faith that is man-centered.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/08

Ruben, I already know what your believe, Actually, you would love the other passages in Genesis 3:15, Matthew 16:18, and Revelations 5:8 .
---Mark_V. on 3/22/08

We can talk about those scripture verses at another time, please explain to me the podigal son, how can the son be OSAS when the Father said " my son was Dead and he is "Alive Again"? He was saved (ask for his inheritance), unsaved(was dead) and saved again( He is alive again)
---Ruben on 3/24/08

#2. Exzuruh: Eloy is the only one alive who can see the hearts of others. I cannot. I can only look at the evidence when one answers, and it only took one sentence you put down for me to determine what you believed. It is a believe that comes from the RCC where people are justified by faith in Christ and works of righteousness. The death of Christ is not good enough to pay for their sins, they have to help Him pay. It revolves around the power of man and not the power of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/08

#3. Exzuruh: Here is how it is, God has to bring you to life before you can even respond to Him. He gives you the eyes to see the ears to hear the Word of God. He gives you understanding of His word, He gives you repentance, He gives you faith, He forgives your sins by this blood, He sanctifies you, He seal's you, He give you every gift possible to make it through life, and most of all Christ sustains you. Where in all these is man's contributions? No where to be found.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/08

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#4 Exzuruh: Where was man going before God brought him to life and gave him a new heart? He was heading to hell. He could not save himself. He didn't even know he was walking to the drum of his father the devil. He was in bondage to sin. There was nothing good in him, not one thing. It is all of God from beginning to end. He is not inpotent, making mistakes everytime He saves someone. When He saves, He saves. For He is Sovereign Lord of heaven and earth, and no one can stop His plan from been completed.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/08

I see the spirit of eloy has come upon you. the spirit that cannot prove scripture so it discredits the ones who can.
---exzucuh on 3/24/08

Exzuruh, you spoke a lot and gave nothing to the context of the parables I stated to prove I was wrong. All talk. I know there is many who are saved in the RCC. I also know there is many who read their Bibles and study. I also know Ruben stands by the traditions of the RCC over God's Word. I know that by his answers. I also know you don't understand salvation. you would like for others to believe as you do that man has more power then God. Evidence by your answers.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/08

#2. Exzuruh: You have created a god who is not only capable of many mistakes with each one He saves, but one who is subject to man. You have a "man-centered" theology, the same as Ruben. Why is that? Because you don't have the Truth of God's Word. You are still in bondage to the law and have not been set free, as Scripture tells us under the New Covenant. But maybe one day you will be set free and believe in a God who is not only not capable of making mistakes when He saves someone,
---Mark_V. on 3/23/08

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#3. Exzuruh: A God who accomplishes all that He desires. When you get that truth in your brain, you will be set free from bondage of the law of the Old Covenant. Yes, faith in Christ is our salvation, yet that faith comes from God the Holy of Holies, King of kings and Lord of lords. Man can never defeat His purpose for He does what He purposes, and His plan will not be defeated by man. It is written.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/08

Galations 5:4 & 5 For I testifie again to every manthat is circumcised,thathe is a dedter todo the whole law Christ is become of noneffect onto you,whosoever of you are justified by the law,ye are fallen from grace.Also Hebrews 6:4-8 It says that if a soul falls from grace it is impossible for him to be redeemed.So I think that for us this is not going to happen although there was a place for that.Also we have not the spirit of fear again to fear but the spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba Father.
---Benja5736 on 3/22/08

Ruben, I already know what your believe, Actually, you would love the other passages in Genesis 3:15, Matthew 16:18, and Revelations 5:8 to speak in your behalf, but they don't. All those passages have been taken out of context for one purpose, to build and teach a believe that is not biblical and since you don't believe the Word of God is authentic truth and final authority, you would believe a person's word before you believe God's Word. What surprise me is that Exzucuh agreed with you.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/08

You love that scripture that says no man can pluck them out of my hand, but that is only one
scripture go count the ones that say I will come when you least expect it and find you backslid and throw you into hell. Or how about don't fear a man that can kill you but fear him that after he has killed you will throw you into hell. You are the one that determines if you will be in his hand if you stay there no man can remove you but you can remove yourself.
---exzucuh on 3/21/08

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First of all, Ruben is right, and just because someone is catholic does not mean they do not know scripture. God has always had a plan of salvation. Animal sacrifice was Gods salvation after the fall of man. it was faith to do what God said for atonement of Sin. And Adam was saved by his faith to do it. Those who did not shed blood for atonement or sacrificed to other gods was lost and went to hell.
---exzucuh on 3/21/08

God is the God of the living. He has always saved those who trusted and obeyed him, he has always forgave those that repented if they mean it, he knows the hearts of men. But he has never made unconditional salvation that is the belief of fools and hell hath enlarged herself to make room for them.
---exzucuh on 3/21/08

And every time a person is born he is lost, "dead." Jesus atonement is for those who believe by faith in Him and His resurrection. And those who believe return back to the Father.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/08

Mark you can not ask for your inheritance from the Father unless you are saved. The Father said "my Son who was dead and is alive again"(Luke 15:24). He is alive "AGAIN" in other words saved,unsaved and saved again...
---Ruben on 3/21/08

Exzucuh, I would think you would know what the parable of the lost son meant. You are not Catholic so I assumed you knew something about Scripture. All descendants of Adam and Eve are Lost, "Dead" spiritually. They have been lost to the Father, since Adam and Eve sinned. And every time a person is born he is lost, "dead." Jesus atonement is for those who believe by faith in Him and His resurrection. And those who believe return back to the Father.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/08

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#2. Ruben is not right, he doesn't know what the parable is about since he doesn't believe in regeneration. How in the world would he know what is happening with the parable? The parable of the lost son, is the most familiar and beloved of all of Christ' parables and is one of the longest and most detailed one. And unlike most parables, it has more then one lesson. The prodigal is an example of sound repentance.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/08

#3. The elder brother illustrates the wickedness of the Pharisees self-righteous, prejudice, and indifference toward repenting sinners. "and the father in the parable pictures God, eager to forgive, and longing for the return of the sinner.' The main feature however, in all three parables in the chapter, The parable of the lost sheep, the parable of the lost coin, "is the joy of God, and the celebrations that fill heaven when a sinner repents."
---Mark_V. on 3/21/08

#4. Those three parables have nothing to do with someone been saved once and losing salvation and then returning back. Only someone who likes to twist the passages to speak what they want will read that into the parables. More twisting of Scripture as always. God says, they cannot understand because they just don't believe. They don't believe because they don't have faith. So they make stories up.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/08

#1 Mark V. A person has to believe in God before they can become saved. They have to have faith in God to save them, to convert them. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. I said a person can only get saved one time. After that if they should fall from God and back into sin, before they come back to God, they must repent and do their first works over. They are still saved but a backslider.
---Rebecca_D on 3/20/08

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#2. Mark V. A person can have their name removed/erased from the book of Life if they backslide and do not make their way back to God. I too believe that a person can only get saved one time. I believe that if a person sins, they must repent over that sin, as we are told to repent daily. If one falls back on God, and they come back to him, they don't get saved all over again, I agree. But they will have to start a new relationship with him cause they can't pick up where they left off. Sin got in the way.
---Rebecca_D on 3/20/08

Ruben you are so right it is amazing how people can discuss something to death and miss the whole point.
---exzucuh on 3/20/08

What does eternal life mean? Can a person lose eternal life? If a person lost it would it have been eternal?
---mike on 3/20/08

Rebeca, think of this, "if all those that are lost have faith in Jesus Christ before they are born again, that means they are all saved already. If they have faith in Jesus Christ before they are born again they can enter the kingdom without been born again." Jesus said, "You must be born again to enter the kingdom of God" If you have faith before you are saved, you have people going into the kingdom and coming out whenever they sin and they sin many times.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/08

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#2. Rebeca: You also believe if they sin, they lose their salvation and then if they repent again they are saved again. If that is possible they come in and out of the Kingdom again and again. A persons hear has to be changed first by God in order for that person to have faith in Jesus Christ. And God does the changing through the gospel, by the Holy Spirit. If a person does not need the gospel to come to faith, then the Word of God is useless, since you say that everyone has faith already.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/08

#3. Rebeca: When God does something it is always perfect. His works are perfect. When He saves someone, He saves them just once. His works cannot be compromised by our actions. If they could defeat His purpose, then He is not God. If He saw something new in a person He already saved that He didn't know before He saved him or that some how surprised Him, then He is not Sovereign and if not sovereign, He is not God.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/08

#4. Rebeca: OSAS is an assurance of our faith. It only means that this people beleve that the promises of God will not fail. That we might fail many times in fact, but He doesn't. " my little children, these things I wrote to you, so that you may not sin. And if you anyone sins we have an Advocate with the Father. Jesus Christ the righteous." We are righteous because we have been imputed the righteousness of Christ, but we still have the sinful nature that can sin.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/08

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