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Are There Any Protestants Left

Are there any real Protestants left? Aren't most supposed Protestants still clinging to Catholic traditions?

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 ---Jerry on 4/30/05
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One man plants

Another waters

But God gives the increase.

Conclusion: God saves us. But he has laid out a plan where rituals DO play a role. The rituals buy themselves ARE meaningless. But when infused with faith, God responds with grace.

Seek, and you will find, knock, and the door shall be opened unto you.
---Greyrider on 2/14/08

Frances ::To answer your postI give you the story of the Good Samaratin.Did he preach the gospel or did he attend His physical needs FIRST.Do we have the authority to save souls.NO - we plant the seed & the H/S does the rest,thats Gods work "Unless you be born from "ABOVE" Jn3,3 You are a disciple NOT GOD.
---Emcee on 2/14/08

Emcee, you underestimate your own responsibility to yourself and to God and His people. How many people have you brought to the Lord? Do you go out and evangelize? If someone (Christian) was lying dying in the street, would you be equipped to quote the Bible for them? The priests cannot be expected to do everything, and some cannot be trusted to do anything. We are in days of turmoil when there is wickedness in high places.
---frances on 2/14/08

Frances::"BLOOD PRIESTS, ones that appointed THEMSELVES!!!This leaves me in bewilderment.I always thought that Priests were either Chosen Or appointed.a priest is a leader.Seems By your view everyone is a leader.Too many chiefs & no indians.I think we are called to be disciples Ie Followers.But who am I just another Disciple .
---Emcee on 2/13/08

frances, you are right in that we are all called to be priests. Pope John Paul II preached a lot about the domestic church and said that parents were the first teachers of their children. But there are different types of priests. Yes, we are all priests, but there are others called to sacramental priesthood. The priest stands "in persona Christi". The priest himself has NO POWER, he allows the power of Christ to work thru him.
---Greyrider on 2/13/08

Emcee, you are quick to jump. Think about it though. It was the blood priests, the ones who appointed themselves as mediators between men and God who were responsible for leading men astray. The prophets pointed this out. Jesus was the first in a new type of priesthood, not one reliant on blood/ancestral profession. We are all called to be priests. To replace the hierarchy that led the people of God astray. We now have one mediator who is sufficient. No others are needed.
---frances on 2/12/08

Frances::"Your post We are all called to be priests""It has been proved in the OT that priests led people astray" So therefor by your contradictory statement we should not believe why do you post.Falsely?
---Emcee on 2/12/08

---Mark_V. on 2/11/08 When I take communion I am obeying Jesus Christ and that is all I think about the bread and the wine, But I believe the words of Christ and it is his word that makes the bread his flesh and the wine his blood, What I think has no power It is only Obedience to the word. I am not SDA, I am nothing, I am not religious, I am a follower of Jesus.
---exzucuh on 2/12/08

God is spirit, Holy Spirit, and He goes wherever he wants to. I believe that there are two points of view, one, that He is Everywhere and two, that He has left us to get on with destroying humanity and is in Heaven watching. I don't believe priests can call him to be present in a special way anywhere, no matter what words or actions they do. Jesus was the last member of the Priesthood, and he opened the way so that we are all priests. However, he does not expect us to perform magic tricks.
---frances on 2/12/08

God is spirit, Holy Spirit, and He goes wherever he wants to. I believe that there are two points of view, one, that He is Everywhere and two, that He has left us to get on with destroying humanity and is in Heaven watching. I don't believe priests can call him to be present in a special way anywhere, no matter what words or actions they do. Jesus was the last member of the Priesthood, and he opened the way so that we are all priests. However, he does not expect us to perform magic tricks.
---frances on 2/12/08

There used to be special families who were priests by blood. This stopped with Jesus, and now we are all CALLED to be priests to one another. Examination of the Old Testament proves that the priesthood were considered responsible for leading people astray.
---frances on 2/12/08

Either you believe that Christ is truly present in the consecrated bread and wine, or you don't. Catholics and some Protestants believe He is present, others do not. I believe He is present. The early Church believed He was present. Luther believed He was present. What more can we say?
---InimicusStultitiae on 2/12/08

MarkV,Eloy,Frances::I begin to see where the real problem lies of denouncing the RCC.YOU call yourselves "Born agaim Believers" but "God does not" because you refute Him His teachings Jn6:36, that whole chapter explains, also Jn3:3 Not AGAIN but FROM ABOVE.You believe in an Apostate Church called Oneness.Its therefore Your WAY not his way Matt16:17-19.Those in His Church acknowledge and their eyes are opened to His teachings.Those who renege automatically eyes shut to the Truth.Jen3:15
---Emcee on 2/12/08

Mark, this is theology 101. The original language of John 6, translated into the word "eat" literally means "to gnaw, chew". Your interpretation is not based on what Scripture says, it is based on a religion created 500 years ago, reducing the Gospel to a 30-second soundbite. Matthew 28:19-20 shows us that salvation is an involved process where Christ walks us through it, under His power and our faith.
---Greyrider on 2/12/08

Greyrider, I don't agree with your explanation at all, it is not biblical. No where does it state the bread literally turns to the flesh of Christ. Jesus said, "I will ask the Father and He will give you another counselor to be with you forever-the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be with you. I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you" John 14:16-18.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/08

#2. Grey: Jesus does not dwell in holy buildings or tabernacles on altars. Rather, through the Holy Spirit, His presence resides in His children. The Lord take up permanent residence in the lives of those who love Him. (believers). Notice that Jesus said at the last Supper, "do this in rememberance of Me" The Eucharist is a memorial of what Jesus did for us in His death upon the Cross. It is a continuence reminder of a past event that we celebrate each time we share in the Supper.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/08

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#3. Grey: It is symbolic for Jesus seats at the right hand of the Father. You say if a person does not eat Christ flesh he is not saved. What happens to the baptismal regeneration? What happens if he later decides to eath the flesh of Christ? Does he have to get regenerated again? Do you see where this is leading to? First a person has to have a contrite heart, then he has to believe in the holy Catholic church, then he has to get baptize now he has
---Mark_V. on 2/12/08

#4 Grey: to eat the flesh of Christ and believe in his heart it is real flesh he is eating to be saved. Are not all this "Works for salvation?" Seems to me that in order for a person to be saved, he has to do a lot of Works. And no where is the "the Works of Christ mentioned" The Gospel of Christ is not even 1% good enough. It has to be supplimented by the works of righteous of the person in order to be imputed with the righteousness of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/08

#5 Grey: That is not the gospel of the Bible. That is another gospel. And no one can be saved through that gospel. It is so important to look at all Scripture. The Works of Christ on the Cross need so suppliments. When we receive Christ as our Savior and Lord, we are trusting in His Works, His merits because no amount of merits we do can pay the debt we owe. The New Covenant is the good News, that Christ died for us. Faith in His Works, His sacrifice, His resurrection.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/08

#6 Greyrider, in John 6:53-58, Jesus point was "an anology that has spiritual, rather then literal, significance: If it was literal Jesus would be contradicting what He said that He was at the right hand of the father. Just as eating and drinking are necessary for physical life, so also is belief in His sacrificial death on the cross necessary for eternal life. The eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood metaphorically symbolizes the need for accepting Jesus works on the Cross for life.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/08

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John 6
53 Then Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
---Greyrider on 2/12/08

The Catholic Church believe that the priest's words and actions bring down God into the wafer and it becames his Actual Prescence. So they do believe that they are eating God. (They also believe God can become an object which is idolatry (?) )
---frances on 2/12/08

Mark, this is what I was referring to about studying the OT. People forget that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the OT. He is the fulfillment of Passover. When the Lamb was sacrificed, the Israelites had to EAT the Lamb or the sacrifice was not complete. So yes, the Bread/Wine LITERALLY become Jesus' Flesh/Blood. Eating Him is our part of the Sacrifice. It's similar to the idea that His Death is meaningless to the person who never puts their faith in Him. They will not be saved.
---Greyrider on 2/12/08

Mark V: The devils also believe, but it doesn't save them.
---jerry6593 on 2/12/08

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Greyrider, you have answered very kindly and right to the point. If I have made your life hard, I am sorry to do that. It would have happened with anyone else if the topic was Catholic Church. You are a very sincere guy and I would hope that you continue to read Scripture and then compare with an open heart.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/08

Exz, I don't know how to respond to you since I don't know what you are asking. But let me help you, "Do you believe the the bread at communion turns to the real flesh of Christ and you eat Christ every Sunday? His real flesh? Once you answer I will know where you are coming from. I have a feeling you are SDA for some reason but I might be wrong.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/08

So Greyrider, are you saying then that the Catholic church does not teach that the bread itself turns to the real flesh of Christ and you eat Him each Sunday? Is that what you are saying, you mean it is not symbolic, it is the real flesh and blood of Christ. When He said, do this in rememberance of Me, I don't think He meant to eat Him each Sunday. Which comes back to what happens to Him when He is waste? It is only symbolic Greyrider.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/08

---Mark_V. on 2/11/08
eating Christ? what exactly are you saying?
Are you belittling the Holy communion that Jesus commanded we partake of as often as we will? If so, Paul warned that those who did not correctly discern the importance of body of Christ would find themselves sickly or even die.
---exzucuh on 2/11/08

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Mark, Jesus said, "Do this in rememberance of Me" I'm just following orders. What does Hebrews REALLY say, "once for all" - The Mass does not recrucify Jesus. That sacrifice is once for all, it never ends. It is timeless. If it was once for all, over and done with, you're in trouble, you sinned AFTER Calvary. Does Christ's death pay for your sins? or only the sins of those who sinned PRIOR to Calvary? All Sins. It is a perpetual sacrifice, not constrained by time.
---Greyrider on 2/11/08

Mark, one other thing. "Sacrifice" is interpreted many different ways by different people. It is very wrong to apply your definition when someone else uses the word according to their own definition. We RC's use the term in two ways. We agree there is only ONE sacrifice in regards to payment for sin. But the life of a true follower of Christ is one of daily sacrifices, imitating the life of Christ.
---Greyrider on 2/11/08

Greyrider, I don't suppose that every Sunday you eat Christ, is that not a sacrifice. Isn't He sacrificing Himself every Sunday when you eat Him? I don't see any of you drinking the blood, that must be bad. Have been there, done that. What do you call the sacrifice all those people do before shrines to meet their allegience to their promise? And each day you sacrifice something to get something in return, is that not sacrifice? There was one sacrifice forever. One time on the Cross.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/08

It amazes me how many people continually say that the RCC sacrifices Jesus at every mass, when the RCC has stated OFFICIALLY millions of times that they DO NOT. The RCC re-presents His original sacrifice at Calvary. That sacrifice CONTINUES to save, does it not?
Do this in remembrance of me. Sound familiar?
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
---Greyrider on 2/11/08

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The story of priest going out sounds very much like the myths of the Knights Templar that again have become popular due to the Da Vinci Code, and works of Dan Brown. While very intriguing hardly proveable. Many urban legends evolve, as do religious ones.
---dan on 2/11/08

I think the question could be 'Are there any real Catholics left'. I believe the Catholics were the next step after the Jews to be the Chosen Ones. But I also believe it became entirely corrupted. Some of them tried to reform it from the inside and were executed, some managed to partially bring them back to God. You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins. A bride of Christ should be spotless, without stain or wrinkle. Protestantism will be stronger due to persecution - purified - Catholics too.
---frances on 2/10/08

MarkV::In order to acknowledge God You Must Bow to His magnificence His Power His might.Not contest,seeking his interpretations by Your standards of Man.He left us a church for that Purpose whichis guided by the Holy Spirit.This is my earnest Honest request.
---Emcee on 2/10/08

Jerry, you can protest all you want, I don't think it will change. I grouped SDA's together with Catholics only because of what all of you state, that Justification in the Works of Christ alone needs suppliments. You, as they do, give the merits men as a suppliment to the Works of Christ, just as the Mormons, J.W. Islam, and many others. Evangelicals do not. Faith in the Works of Christ is more then enough under the Covenant of Grace.
---Mark_V. on 2/10/08

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I protest against every thing that is contrary to the word of God,and his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus did not die for man to create a religion, and was not resurrected by God so men could create doctrines and philosophies to satisfy their egotistical natures. He gave himself so man could be reconciled to God for relationship and quality of life so the kingdom of God could come into the world through believers and by the preaching of his word his Son could be reproduced in those that receive the word.
---exzucuh on 2/10/08

I protest the descecration of God's Ten Commandment Law found in the Catholic Catechism. If one will simply compare the version of the 10Cs found in the Catechism with those found in Exo 20:8-11, he will find:

1) The 2nd Commandment (prohibiting idol worship) is missing.

2) Sabbath (Saturday) worship has been replaced with Sunday worship.

3) The 10th Commandment (coveting) has been split in two to maintain a total of 10.
---jerry6593 on 2/10/08

Ruben, since Greyrider say's you make a great point, that we make one passage mean what we want it to mean but I suppose you haven't seen what you have done to the word of God. You put down one passage In Malachi to make your point on the Mass. That passage say's nothing about having a Mass. You could take any passage that say's, "the believers gather together for worship" and say, look, that passage says Mass. No Ruben what you and others do is
---Mark_V. on 2/9/08

#2 Ruben: that will support your point of view and make a doctrine out of them. That is why they contradict the Word of God. If Water is the remissions of your sins, what about the blood of Christ which is the remission of our sins? Oh you forgot that passage was there. Maybe that passage is wrong. How do you reconcile Scripture? No way to. How about Mary been sinless, That is what all of you say, another contradiction to God's Word.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/08

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#3. Ruben: Mary herself said she was a sinner, and all of you are saying she was sinless. How do you reconcile that? Ruben, if water is the cause of regeneration, then why is a contrite heart needed? If a contrite heart is needed, why do you have to believe in the holy Catholic church? Which is it? The contrite heart that changes you, the believe in your church, or plain water? You don't know which but keep saying water is the cause of been born again.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/08

#4. In every Mass they sacrifice Christ, when He said, one sacrifice forever. Another contradiction. In the end the whole gospel is a different gospel. Not the Gospel of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/08

Greyrider, "if you study the Old Testament long enough you will become a Catholic" I would not disagree with you. You can be a Catholic, it doesn't take much. It take's the work of the Holy Spirit to illuminate the word so that you can understand it. You have to be born again. Not of water, of the Spirit. Many people study it, to no avail. It is not about how smart you are Greyrider, it is about faith in the Word of God for your life.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/08

Ruben makes a great point here. Many well-meaing Protestants who love Jesus and seek to serve Him make the mistake of prooftexting. You can make 1 or 2 verses, ON THEIR OWN, say just about anything. But the Scriptures take on a whole new meaning when you begin to look at the Word of God as a whole. As the saying goes, if you study the OT long enough, you will become a Roman Catholic. Get a study Bible where the NT shows the OT refernces in the footnotes. It will come alive like never before.
---Greyrider on 2/8/08

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Ruben, in Titus 3:5, and the washing talked about is a Spiritual washing of the soul. The purification of the soul is done by the Holy Spirit.

You have to read the Bible in whole

In John 3:5 " Enter the Kingdom of God
In Titus 3:5 "He saves us "

In John 3:5 "Born of water"
In Titus 3:5 "Washing of rebirth"

In John 3:5 "And of the Spirit"
In Titus 3:5 "renewal by the Holy Spirt"
---Ruben on 2/7/08

Mark V-Ruben, I went through each passage you put down and none of them pertain to the subjects I spoke of.

Why I am not surprise, Lets just go with the Mass .Passage Malachi 1:11:
" My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty."
---Ruben on 2/7/08

Ruben, I went through each passage you put down and none of them pertain to the subjects I spoke of. The one in Titus 3:5, and the washing talked about is a Spiritual washing of the soul. He did not mentioned that you had to be baptized or that water would clean your soul and make you born again. The purification of the soul is done by the Holy Spirit. Not by physical water sprayed, dumped, poured or submerge you in.
---Mark_V. on 2/7/08

Mark V::You say you defend the word of God & serve Him.HOW How does one serve BY what RULES? HIS or YOURS?Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me" if so, why do you condemn His church Matt16:17-19.are you judging HIS Church By Man's action or By God's word.
---Emcee on 2/7/08

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Mark, you obviously have not seen other posts of mine. I left the RCC long ago, because I never learned the actual teachings and I knew that the beliefs of many RC's were unscriptural. I only grudgingly came back to the RCC because through years of Scripture study, and the learning of ACTUAL RCC teaching, I came to realize that the Bible clearly teaches what the RCC teaches. It was the Word of God that led me into the RCC.
---Greyrider on 2/7/08

Greyrider, I don't see such a thing, I am a servant of Christ. As a matter of fact of have not touched the subject of Protestants at all. You don't hear me defending Protestants but defending the Word of God. I have no pride Greyrider as you do. My conscience is clear. You are defending a church, I am defending the truth from Scripture, is that so hard to understand? I have no desire as you to give my life to my church, I gave it to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/7/08

#2. Grey: You just don't get it yet. You think I am attacking your church and its people but I am bringing truth to you. You refuse to understand because you are so rab-up in your Church and the intengrity of the Church that you compromise the Truth to defend it. But that is you, and you can do what you want, I know where my heart is at, and that is for Christ. I make every effort to study each subject in Scripture so that I can explain Scripture to those who have an ear to hear, and eyes to see.
---Mark_V. on 2/7/08

Mark, do you see yourself as a Protestant version of the Pope? There are 35,000 different Protestant denominations (38,000 according to Gordon Conwell - a Protestant seminary). You speak with such conviction. But what about your Protestant brothers and sisters that disagree with you on various doctrines? Obviously with 35,000-38,000 different sets of teachings among Protestants, there is a lot of disagreement. How do you know they are wrong, if they disagree with you on something?
---Greyrider on 2/6/08

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None of it is in Scripture. "Mass, Purgatory, indulgences and baptismal regeneration."
---Mark_V. on 2/5/08

Mass: Read Malachi 1:11
Hebrews 13:10
Purgatory: Read 1 Cor 3:11-15
Matthew 5:25
Luke 12:58-59
Indulgences: Read 1 Cor 5:3-5
2 Cor 2:6-11
Baptism Regeneration : Acts 2:38 Acts 22:16 Titus 3:5(He saves washing of regeneration)
---Ruben on 2/6/08

I am sorry to disappoint most Catholics but the Bible is not on the side of the RCC. The RCC has added "works" to salvation by the request of many leaders who ran the RCC through the ages. The teachings regarding the Mass, Purgatory, indulgences, baptismal regeneration, have undermined "The one sacrifice of Jesus Christ that forever secured the remission of sins. The RCC does not teach the saving Gospel as set forth in the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/08

#2. The Gospel of Christ states that the atoning death of Jesus paid in full the penalty of all our sins, rendering us sinless before God, free of all condemnation, and assuring us that upon death we will join the Lord in heaven. Furthermore, Jesus offers that forgiveness as a gift, it cannot be earned by the performance of good and noble deeds as if they possessed spiritual collateral. What this means is that forgiveness cannot be received through some power alleged to exist in a sacrament.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/08

#3. God's free offer of pardon is to "believe by faith in Christ in His Works along" and be baptized into Him in whom salvation is found. The RCC in its doctrines of works, Mass, purgatory, demonstrate that "it, (the church) sees the sacrifice of Jesus as needing to be supplemented. RCC teaching on the subject is not what the Bible teaches." None of it is in Scripture. "Mass, Purgatory, indulgences and baptismal regeneration."
---Mark_V. on 2/5/08

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#1) frances, I find your post very interesting. When you examine the differences between Protestants and Roman Catholics, the Bible clearly is on the side of the RCC in all cases. Even though we believe in Scripture plus Sacred Tradition (not man-made, there is a difference), you can find ALL of the RCC's teachings in Scripture. All of the modern-day arguments used against the RCC are fairly new interpretations. People usually resort to these Middle Age versions of Urban Legends to attack the RCC.
---Greyrider on 2/4/08

#2) Some of the stories quoted on this post are too laughable for me to be offended by them. Some do try to claim that the Reformation was going back to the "original" teachings, but history refutes that claim. My favorite is when people try to claim that the Reformation taught what Augustine taught. He was as hardcore Roman Catholic as any theologian in the history of Christianity. Truth is, Martin Luther is closer to being Roman Catholic, than he is to being a modern-day Protestant.
---Greyrider on 2/4/08

Frances ... I am so far over the age of 12 that I am not as proficient at surfing the web as you may be.
And it is quite difficult to read the books unless someone tells you which ones to read.
YOu complain about being attacked, but I feel sometimes yuo are attacking me, except that you credit me with more intelligence than I have!
---alan_of_UK on 2/4/08

Frances:: Truth is never "HIDDEN" in Books of innuendo conjecture but in the open for all to read even boys age 12 but the interpretation of those words are left to The HOLY Spirit In His Church Matt16:17-19,not to be interpreted by boys aged12 Or men of different Minds with disasterous results as you can clearly see even by your interpretations."This above ALL to thine own self be TRUE"Jesus came to spread His Gospel & did not leave it to others to expound.
---Emcee on 2/4/08

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Frances, I read a book once called, "The Invisible Goverments" I don't remember who wrote it but read a whole lot of what you said about the Catholic church and the power they have behind the scenes in putting people in many countries as you said, and they have unlimited funds. That their investigations are more precise then the CIA's. I don't know how true that was because I was learning about the invisible goverment here in our country. What they do in secret that others don't know.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/08

There is a certain type of poster, and I do not think it is all the same person, but I have some suspicions. They always attack personally, instead of looking at the information given, and countering it with effective arguments. A quick insult here and there to discredit a person is much easier than searching out the truth, which is inevitably UNDER the surface.
---frances on 2/2/08

Alan of Uk, if you are over 12 years old you would be able to find out the truth. Do you read books? Have you heard of books that have been withdrawn after being published because the authorities did not like the truth? It is all written about in multiple places on the internet. The evidence is still out there in other books if you read them. Of course a lot of books get destroyed nevertheless, there are many who write, speak, and publish about the truth. Some of them died.
---frances on 2/2/08

Frances ... I had a quick look at those and did not see anything immediately to support your claim that "*The Catholics sent thousands of priests from their Papal Order of the Society of Jesus, out into Protestant Churches disguised as Protestants"
Give us a clue where to find it?
---alan_of_UK on 2/2/08

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Frances ... You confuse me with the others. I have considtently challenged RC doctrine and practice, and have never said anything about the Jesuits activities.
I am just asking yuo to give the evidence for your claim that "The Catholics sent thousands of priests from their Papal Order of the Society of Jesus, out into Protestant Churches disguised as Protestants"
Your continued refusal to disclose your evidence or direct me to it indicates that it is probably false.
---alan_of_UK on 2/2/08

MikeM, how can you possibly say that. The Jesuits were born just after the crusades, and their explicit job was to Counter the Reformation. They worked as a MILITARY UNIT for the Vatican and still do. They infiltrate the highest levels of US government. Look into the Red Mass. Ignatius of Loyola worshipped the Black Madonna. Is that a goddess or what? Jesuits can speak 5-8 languages, so they cannot claim ignorance. They are Satanic.
---frances on 2/2/08

Alan of Uk. Do you think that your finding or not finding of websites has any relationship or effect on the truth or otherwise of them? The internet is like a library but is living. Sites that expose the biggest lies, as soon as discovered they go to the back of the queue. It ends up you have to find ways of googling that will bring them up, and I end up not divulging those websites to the people who oppose what I say, the truth.
---frances on 2/2/08

Alan of Uk, Greyrider, Mike M, you think me so naive don't you. If there is a Jesuit order, and there is, and if it works for the Pope, and it does, and if they have people all over the world working for them, and they do, then why should I bother listening to people who deny all that and believe them to be some kind of nice little old men hell bent on taking care of the poor? They are not, and you are blind.
---frances on 2/2/08

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Frances that is the most wacky thing I ever heard! The Jesuits are basically a force for good, and I am not RCC!

One thing I note is that the official Catholic Church does not publish anti-other religion junk as the fundamentalist, who attack everyone. Yes there are fringe Catholics, like in any religion, but the RCC is as a whole are completly begnign.

the real 'enemy' is fanaticism and secularism, which in fact feed each other.
---MikeM on 2/2/08

Alan: Research true historical sources such as Wylie's "The History of Protestantism," "Pyrotechnica Loyolana," 1667 and "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" by Father Charles Chiniquy. Yes, that Father Chiniquy who was defended in court by our Abraham Lincoln who in turn subsequently paid the ultimate price for it.

You might also read the history of Guy Fawkes Day in England, and the role of Henry Garnett, the superior of the English Jesuits.
---jerry6593 on 2/2/08

Frances ... You make the most outrageous claim about the Jesuits, and refuse to justify it.
I can find web-sites that expose Pentecostals as Antichrist, that say Christianity is the greatest curse ever to inflict mankind, that say Hitler's Holocaust never happened,
It doesn't make any of it true.
---alan_of_UK on 2/2/08

frances, there is a lot of garbage CREATED just for laughs on the internet.
George Bush is NOT an alien.
JFK does not live in a secret room in the white house.
There are no ghosts haunting the Roman Coliseum
There are no ghosts of martyrs roaming the catacombs under Rome.
Elvis is not working as a gardener in Wisconsin.
However, I was recently in the Everglades and I did think I heard Osceola cry, but that's a different story.
---Greyrider on 2/1/08

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Frances ... You make an outrageous slanderous attack on Jesuits, and refuse to back it up.
Yes there are web-sites that "expose" the Jesuits, and much of it is lies.
There are websites which "expose" Pentecostals ... much of it lies.
There are websites which say Christianity is the greatest evil ever in the world ... most of it lies.
There are websites which "prove" Hitler's Nazis did not kill many Jews.
---alan_of_UK on 2/1/08

Frances ... "I won't tell you, because I know the systems of this world. They will have an all out attack on the source, and I might be responsible for it"
That Frances is silly. If it is there on the web, and you say it is, "They" will already know about it and if they wanted to would mount their "all-out" attack.
If you disclosed it to us it would make absolutely no difference, except perhaps to restore our respect for yuo.
---alan_of_UK on 2/1/08

Emcee, the true church is the body of believers of all denominations, dead but risen (with Jesus) and living (but dead to the world and militant). We have ONLY one head and he is in charge of doctrine, not you, not the Pope. His name is Jesus. All humans are sinners. All humans, including myself, and including the Pope.
---frances on 2/1/08

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