Any Alternative Medicine Views
Oops, Jerry, I didn't read your very earliest posts. I'm pretty sure we don't agree at all on this subject. :-P
"Doctors don't know squat about herbal medicine, or basic human nutrition for that matter." Have you studied human physiology or are you just making stuff up again?
---liam on 8/27/08|
Jerry ... Actually, you would be far more likely to die from eating the foxglove plant than in taking the refined digitalis.
---alan_of_UK on 8/27/08|
Jerry, I think we found something we might be able to agree about :)
Jerry is right, just because a medication contains something derived from a plant which is otherwise harmful, doesn't mean it actually is. The part that does matter is if this medication is tested under the correct medical conditions (double-blind, etc) and retested and retested and retested and so on until you're very certain it is not dangerous or at least know all the side-effects.
Another good example is medication containing hydrochloric acid (HCL). HCL, by itself is very acidic and would kill you if you drank some, however, the reason its contained in medication is to balance out the pH of the medication so that it is neutral.
---liam on 8/27/08|
Shawn, this is good for a lot of people, its true, but then some people have extreme conditions which makes it impossible to live a "heathy, normal life".
The sad thing is, when you see commercials for treatments for things like RLS, Fibromyalgia and CFS, you never see what these conditions do to people. My favorite example is a fibro commercial where it shows a woman talking about her pain while tending a garden. Actually, if she had Fibro, she wouldn't be able to tend to her garden like that. She would most likely be in bed trying to decide if the pain all over her body was going to keep her from doing her job today. Prayer/physical therapy might help from day to day, but its no cure for these people.
---liam on 8/27/08|
Alan: You make my point for me. Digitalis is a derived, refined chemical from the plant - it's not foxglove. Similarly, vallium (a drug) is not valerian root, but is derived from it.
---jerry6593 on 8/27/08|
I am glad you asked. I "hate" medicine, at least the way it is used in our modern Pill Happy society. The simple Bible answer is prayer, but I know that we want more than that so here you go. I believe in positive thinking, not mystical, but thinking does lead to being. I also believe in healthy living. Some exercise, healthy food, NO smoking, etc. The unfortunate fact is that we are cursed from the fall and sickness and disease are part of the human existence. Do what you can, pray, eat healthy, and take as few drugs as possible. Trust God, be positive, and enjoy every day that God has given you here. I hope this helps.
---Shawn on 8/27/08|
Oops is my face red, thank you for clarifying, Jerry and sorry I was kinda confused lol! You make some very good points even if I don't 100% agree with you, you got me thinking :) God bless :)
---Mary on 8/26/08|
I don't know about your Drs. in England, but here in the US it would be highly unlikely if a Dr. had ever heard of the herbs you mention
Jerry is wrong. All of these herbs and others are covered in basic pharmacology courses.
---Donna66 on 8/26/08|
Ginger root capsules work well for me when I have indigestion.
---bernie_cohen on 8/26/08|
I have found that conventional medicine mostly deals with the symptoms, and homeopathy deals with the reason or source of the problem. Both have a place of consideration but the natural method of diet and herbal application will have a far better chance of actual healing than do drugs that are going to alleviate symptoms but do not offer a cure.
---john on 8/26/08|
Jerry ... the plants I mentioned are well known here among well read people to be poisonous, & doctors would know all of them. They are not herbs, but decorative garden plants or trees.
I,ve no doubt that in the US there are similar situations.
You say "Herbal remedy plants won't kill you" You are wrong there, you know.From Foxglove comes digitalis, which is used (in moderation) for medicinal purposes, but is dangerous if used to excess, and will kill.
---alan_of_UK on 8/26/08|
I don't buy into homeopathy. There is no scientific reason to believe that it would work and all (double-blind) experiments show that it works as well as placebo.
Also, homeopathy "works" under the assumption that water (or whatever carrier is used) has some sort of "immeasurable memory" that can withstand shaking and jarring during the dilution process ... I'm sorry but I don't believe in magic. :-P
---liam on 8/26/08|
Alan: "So you would not listen to the doctor who told yuo to limit the amount of foxglove, laburnum or helleborus you consumed?"
I don't know about your Drs. in England, but here in the US it would be highly unlikely if a Dr. had ever heard of the herbs you mention.
Would you listen to a Dr. if he advised you take poison? (Most drugs are, you know.)
---jerry6593 on 8/26/08|
one needs knowledge of plants before one starts to fix ther own herbs. A plant that can heal can also hurt if used wrong.
---mike on 8/23/08|
Mary: OK, I'll rephrase it for you. Herbal remedy plants won't kill you. Alcohol is a derived product, not a plant. If you are a pothead or a drunk, you're not the subject of the discussion. We're talking about helping truly sick folks - not those bent on self-destruction.
---jerry6593 on 8/23/08|
Jerry ... "Doctors don't know squat about herbal medicine, or basic human nutrition for that matter. You only need "medical supervision" if you're using their drugs. Plants won't hurt you"
So you would not listen to the doctor who told yuo to limit the amount of foxglove, laburnum or helleborus you consumed?
---alan_of_UK on 8/23/08|
"Worship" Doctors? LOL, Not for a nano-second.
I AM biased I guess, having worked in the medical field for 30 yrs. I've seen literally thousands cured by medical science (including myself, recently cured of stage III carcinoma, i.e advanced cancer) I believe that the principles of modern medicine, imperfectly used as they may be, have been revealed by God.
You have a right to put into your body anything you want. I never said that herbs are bad, just that herbal medicines are not regulated and standardized and that there are risks to self-diagnosis.
Perhaps some bloggers who use herbal medicines will be objective enough to exercise caution. That was my only message and I stand by it.
---Donna66 on 8/23/08|
Jerry: so you say plants won't hurt us--hmmm...explain marijuana then? Or poison ivy or nettles (and believe me, I remember nettles from my childhood lol!) Alcohol is also "natural" when you think about it but look at the devastation caused by it. As a recovering alcoholic, I mean no disrespect--I just know what I'm talking about in that area.
---Mary on 8/22/08|
Donna: "Herbal medicine is, indeed, Biblical, but still should be used with caution and medical supervision."
You go ahead and worship your doctors if you like, but I'll stick with God's plan. Doctors don't know squat about herbal medicine, or basic human nutrition for that matter. You only need "medical supervision" if you're using their drugs. Plants won't hurt you, but refined chemicals derived from them will!
---jerry6593 on 8/22/08|
While many people die from both proper and improper use of prescription drugs (and I've seen a lot of cases where doctors misprescribe or nurses misadminister or pharmacist incorrectly prescriptions), nevertheless probably more people's lives are saved (who would have died had the drugs not been available) than are killed by bad drugs.
In the same way, even though more people may die in hospitals than outside them, a lot more would die if the hospitals weren't there in the first place.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/08|
"Chemicals" are not "man-made".
of course chemicals are not man made how darn silly of me ...that's right mixing up elements (that of course God created) is FAR BETTER than putting herbs and natural substances in our body
...placing doctors and drugs ahead of God and natural substances and making absurd foolish claims about natural substances wouldnt be one who serves God
insurance and drug industry rakes in many trillions of dollars at expense of people they USE to MAKE MONEY ...sorry more than 100K deaths PER YEAR from drugs verses less than 500 deaths by natural substances in 10 YEARS doesnt rank as a qualified opinion I don't care how many letters one has after their name
---Rhonda on 8/21/08|
Herbal medicine is, indeed, Biblical, but still should be used with caution and medical supervision.
"Drugs" frequently are HERBAL derivatives.
I don't doubt that medications in the time Jeremiah was speaking of, were pretty much useless (especially since he was speaking of a time of God's judgment).
But that is demonstrably not true of modern medicines..considering the many diseases that have been successfully treated and in some cases eradicated.
---Donna66 on 8/21/08|
Herbal remedies are biblical:
Rev 22:2 ... the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Isa 38:21 For Isaiah had said, Let them take a lump of figs, and lay it for a plaster upon the boil, and he shall recover.
Drugs are not:
Jer 46:11 .... in vain shalt thou use many medicines, for thou shalt not be cured.
---jerry6593 on 8/21/08|
My facts would be verified by any M.D. you could name. Are they all also "unintelligent"? If you want a list of my sources I'd gladly supply one (except I don't believe you really care).
Herbal medicines, under medical supervision, may be beneficial.
"Chemicals" are not "man-made". Chemicals are what cause the effects of herbal medicine as well conventional medicine. All matter in the universe is composed of "chemucals"...nothing more natural than that! God has given man the knowledge to produce drugs, often from plants, to help humans heal.
---Donna66 on 8/20/08|
I too have a christian friend that uses oils for the treatment Eczema, so much so midwives ask me about it and she now makes Blends of the stuff for all my friends and their children.
Oils are very good and I used to clear up my niece's condition when it flairs up so i'm a living testimony of Aromatherapy oils for that reason.
---Carla3939 on 8/20/08|
Jerry 6593, I won't argue with your figures. But a high percentage of these deaths result from misuse of drugs, intentional or unintentional.
The biggest danger with herbal medication is that people tend to diagnose themselves and often their diagnosis is incorrect or they take the wrong remedy.
For example, a woman may treats her abdominal distress with herbs rather than see a doctor who could diagnose and properly treat her ovarian cancer.
The source of herbal products may be suspect. Remember the tainted dog food from China? Do you think herbal preparations from there must be safer? I've personally seen several people who, though they didn't die, suffered permanent neurological disability from a tainted foreign herbal remedy.
---Donna on 8/20/08|
If you think herbs are SAFE, you may be putting your health at risk.
1. Herbs have side effects...as many or more than conventional medicines
get your facts straight before spreading your unintelligent opinions
...herbs given by God as medicine to HEAL
mere man created chemicals which are used in legally prescribed drugs
Herbs do have side effects ...requiring a knowledgeable person to administer ...care and responsibility must be used when taking anything into ones body
Jerry was correct more than 100K people die each year by taking their legally prescribed drugs CORRECTLY
in a 10 year time frame less than 500 people died ....verses more than 100K a YEAR by legally prescribed drugs
---Rhonda on 8/20/08|
The conventional apothecaries and the folk remedies both have their place in the effective healing of various maladies.
---Eloy on 8/20/08|
Donna: IMHO you could not be more wrong! It is a documented fact that over 100,000 people are killed in America alone by prescription drugs each year. Yet there is not one case of of an unrefined herb being implicated in a single death (unless compounded by a prescription drug). When someone wants to commit suicide, they don't typically go for the echinacea pills, but for some prescription drug. Why do you think that is?
---jerry6593 on 8/20/08|
If you think herbs are SAFE, you may be putting your health at risk.
1. Herbs have side effects...as many or more than conventional medicines.
2. Some of their side effects occur because herbs are unregulated. What else is in the product you buy? How do you know that it contains what the label says?
3.Herbs may help one condition but aggrevate another.. and you will not know it because neither the sales people nor label mention it.
4. If you take herbal medicine in addition to traditional prescribed medicine, you may have severe, even deadly interactions.
5. Herbal medicines may also have harmful interactions with each other.
If you want to use drugs, find an M.D. or D.O. to guide you.
---Donna66 on 8/19/08|
I made an error in my previous post. I said If you want to use drugs find an M.D. or D.O.
I MEANT to say, If you want to use herbs...
There are some legitimate medical practitioners who have detailed knowledge in this area.
Randy- Marijuana is also an unregulated herb. You do not know the precise dose you are taking. It's known to increase appetite in patients receiving chemotherapy for cancer. It has potential use in eye conditions.
However, there are conventional medications that have proved more effective for all these. AND NONE of them must be SMOKED to enter the bloodstream.
---Donna66 on 8/19/08|
Well, just call me STUPID. What is it?
---catherine on 8/19/08|
Using medicines (alternative or otherwise) are for nonChristians and weak Christians. God would not have had humans discover medications having adverse side effects.
Is your faiths so weak that you cannot trust God to heal yourself? Or is your faith in man's medicines greater?
Have you not read the story of the women who touched the hem of Jesus' clothing and was healed? It was because her faith that healed her not any type of medicine.
Most Christians today have more faith in man-made medicines than the power of God.
---Steveng on 8/18/08|
God made humans intelligant inorder to be able to create medications and life saving treatments. I think people can over use medication but, both natural and "hospital" medications and treatments are fine. Prayer is an amazing healer as well!!!! I was to have a surgery to stop bleeding in my nose, throat and ears, and was healed, with no "medical" explanation
---Ginn on 8/18/08|
yes, I do believe in alternative medicines. If I am allowed to say it, I believe in Juice plus-ambrotose, but I just can't afford to buy it. I wish I had never had surgery for thyroid cancer, but I wish I had gone to natural medicine. I wouldn't feel the way I do now.
---shira_5965 on 8/18/08|
Your holististic mediciens are of the devil and rooted in the occult.
---Rev_Herb on 8/11/07|
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The driving force is economics, the US pharmaceutical industry and insurance companicies are the dominant contributors and lobist for congress. Drug Companies dont want to cure you, they want to perpuate you using their products and secondary products to counter the side effects of their primary products. Their influence is strong enough to have the FDA stomp on alternative medicine practices that are actually effective and could econimicly hurt the pharmaceutical industry.
---Phil_the_Elder on 12/19/05|
I am 57 yrs, and haven't seen a Dr. in 10 yrs. I eat organic, and always ask God to bless all I eat..I use herbs as God told us to, and my husband lays hands on me if I get ill. Why would anyone want to go to someone that is practicing?
---Lynn_Bedford77 on 12/18/05|
I go to a Dr. when I have to, but I ask a lot of questions,especially about any meds they prescribe.
I prefer preventive medicine to keep my immune system strong.I take supplements to make my system stronger.A Chiropractor is a must for me.Everything in your body is connected one way or another to your spine, keeping that in proper adjustment is very important.Diet and exercise is integral to good health.I use natural herbs and remedies before I resort to a medical doctor, that has served me well.
---NVBarbara on 7/27/05|
Yes Alan, that is the kind of mumbo jumbo used by SOME people using alternative medicines.They are the ones who make it an 'alternative' to sound medical advice. Those who prefer to call some of the same therapies 'complementary' medicine are not opposed to doctors and hospitals. They wish their skills to be complementary to that of the medical profession. It would be far better if both could work together more but when doctors here of your kind of experience there is no wonder they are not interested.
---Xanthi on 7/20/05|
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When my wife was dying with cancer, my cousin phoned me and said she had asked the spirits to guide her crstal on a string, and it was swinging madly to show that my wife should go to a "faith healer"
She made it sound convincing, but it would have been very wrong to go to this pantheistic man.
That is one extreme of alternative medicine ... at the other end, to use herbs is to use things which God has provided in nature.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/20/05|
2...you can change your mind but if you have them and change your mind it's too late - you've participated in something you now think is evil. I personally think that the good or bad of many of these therapies is determined by who's hands are giving/applying them. Christians will pray for a patient, those involved in the occult will summon up help from spirits or swing pendulums etc. We must be very careful not call something evil that God has given us though.
---Paul_James on 7/20/05|
1.There are so many different treatments that come under the heading alternative medicine and some do not use any form of medicine at all e.g. osteopathy and chiropractic. I've had both for spinal problems and wouldn't be walking now if I hadn't. My doctor knew nothing about back problems. As far as a Christian's reaction to them I think it should be a case of 'when in doubt don't.' If you don't use these therapies but decide later that it's O.K.
---Paul_James on 7/20/05|
God heals in three ways: preventative measures, (such as proper diet and exercise); normal medical channels, (like medicine, doctors, etc.) and Divine Intervention, (by-passing everything and doing it Himself.)
Alternative medicines come under the heading of "normal medical channels". The main problem is they are sometimes "piggy backed" onto some non-christian religion, but some forms of alternative medicine are good. Meditation, for example, is encouraged in the Bible.
---Ray on 7/19/05|
I'm surprised, yet very pleased, that so few have said that alternative/complementary medicines are ALL evil. I must live in an area where that opinion is strong because most Christians I know just cringe at the words 'alternative medicine'. They seem to think that everything from the West is good and everything from the East is bad. I sometimes wonder how they dare to east Chinese food, surely it's cursed if everything else from there is.
---Paulette on 7/19/05|
Good point with the vacsin I had my kids vacsinated. pets too.
---Laure5469 on 7/19/05|
Why is there such a resistance to the medical use of marijuana? It has been proven effective to relieve many symptoms that are caused by harsher drugs, especially in the terminally ill.
---randy on 7/19/05|
Herb, glad you came back on this. There are Christians who will also say 'visualize it away' 'don't talk about illness to anyone' or 'if the devil can't hear you say you are ill it will get better' etc. Also you must bear in mind that just because ONE complementary practitioner uses a 'dodgy' method (swinging a pendulum for example to help his diagnosis) this doesn't mean that ALL in that profession do so. Also SOME doctors believe in wart charmers - now isn't that scientific??!! I could write a book.
---Xanthi on 7/19/05|
No drugs Alan, I eat pain for breakfast:)
I had a key penetrate my hand as I fell on it walking up stairs juggling coffee and a newspaper.
I wasn't going to remove it by myself I had a surgeon do it, but no drugs kid.
I don't expect you to understand, and I knew I'd be hammered for opening up.
Maybe your right, and you're tougher than me and I'd get cancer treatment, but till then I doubt it.
Like I said I'm not Jesus, don't follow me.
---Pharisee on 7/18/05|
When God created the world and all that is in it he said it was good. What God created (naturally) certainly must be better than the chemicals created by man. I worry that the chemicals we are taking in is what is making us sick.
---Patra9397 on 7/18/05|
I read several posts with humor...folks seem to believe either "natural" or "chemical" meds are evil!!! This is exactly the nonsense that God did not want us to get caught up in. If something helps you, great, but don't decide that you have the medical or spiritual answer for everyone. That is an arrogant and ignorant assumption and does not come from God.
---Kelly on 7/18/05|
I am a FIRM FIRM believer in natural medicine. In Jesus's day, there wasn't all this synthetic medicines we have now. I see nothing wrong with using the natural medicine of GOD's earth. That's what it's here for.
---Chante on 7/18/05|
The use of herbs is not wrong but it is the other parts I don't care for. When they don't treat you with medicen but tell you visualiz it away then I have problems.
---Rev_Herb on 7/18/05|
i know that garlic, cayenne pepper, grapefruit, and guanabana are potent remedies. And subconcious sugestions during hypnosis can help people with certain maladies. Chicken corn soup is excellent for colds. But contemporary medicine is good too, although alot of drugs have many adverse side effects, for instance you take a prescribed pill for a headache, and end up with diarrhea,ulcers, and a rash from the side effects. i'd prefer something more kosher, though things like snake oil might be quackery.
---Eloy on 7/18/05|
Pharisee ... I assume you have not suffered from cancer, and had the benefit of chemotherapy or radiothgerapy. But one of the reasons that you have not had much cause to see the medics is probably that you had the polio and other vaccines as a child. I wonder what drugs benefited you during those major emergencies?
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/18/05|
Yes I believe that natural why is best, There are less side effects less expencive and not drug interaction. od gives us every thing, just not all wisdom to me yet. I do believe in prayer and that is the most natural cure of all.
---Laure5469 on 7/18/05|
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Shira, I agree with you! I met Canadian christians owning a health center. Right diet, cleansing of system. God gives wisdom what to do, eat, how to fast, what to exclude. I couldn't buy maple syrup and God told me a cheap local substitude. He can even suggest a doctor!
---Ilga on 7/18/05|
I was annointed with oil last year and was told that the oil came from Israel and had been prayed over. She said she would be wary of using any of the ones in the shops here because most of them come from China or Egypt and someone 'could have' cast a spell on them. Well, isn't it just possible that the ones from Israel had had a spell cast over them before reaching the one who prayed over them? I can pray over the ones I buy in the shop also and my God is greater than the one casting spells.
---F.F. on 7/18/05|
...sick body and absolutely nothing else. Nothing man made and certainly nothing from the devil. I know Christians who think magnet therapy is evil yet will wear a copper bracelet. Why not accept or reject both? As far as I know God made both copper and magnets and I personally use both for arthritic aches and pains. I also inhale aromatherapy oils for migraine and know a Christian aromatherapist who has had tremendous success treating eczema with a cream to which she adds 3 different oils.
---Xanthi on 7/18/05|
The reason that some Christians believe that complementary medicines are of the devil is because most of them originate in the East where people worship false Gods. That is like saying that God cannot have produced anything good in the East. What rubbish. God provided all the plants (worldwide) that are used by herbalists and aromatherapist (these two treatments are close cousins). The latter uses the oils extracted from these God given plants, his or her own pair of hands to massage them into the...
---Xanthi on 7/18/05|
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God gave us every healing plant known to man. We continue to extract most of our medicines from plants. God gave us alternative medicine based on thousands of year's experience in the Far East; HOWEVER, we must use them wisely with knowledgeable counsel. Can be severe cross-reactions. Pray and ask Jesus' blood to cover everything we take into our bodies, bless it and to help not harm us. East is now meeting West but Dr. Jesus' remains All in all. Praise Him!!
---Elsie on 7/18/05|
I've got MOUNDS of them.
I operate on the idea that if we give a condition a name we give it a place to stay and dwell within us.
I'm 35 and haven't seen a doctor except for major emergencies since I was 12.
The Israelites wanted a king but God was to be thier king. I feel the same way about physicians especially mental health professionals and they're endless pills that merely squash symptoms.
But don't follow me, I'm not Jesus.
---Pharisee on 7/18/05|
What works for others may or may not work for my maladies. That does not stop me from trying them. If they improve my situation, I am ahead. The FDA works as if 5 bad situations ocurr in a million prescriptions, the drug should not be used. Back to the drawing board for several more million dollars of tests. Meanwhile, the public is denied a healing medication and the lawyers have income.
---chuck on 7/18/05|
Alan is right,until man learned to make synthetic medications from chemicals every medicine humankind used came from a plant.American Indians used asprin,it came from willow bark, and they taught settlers about it and other helpful plants.Those chemical medications have a lot of side effects,hurt sometimes more than help.
---Darlene_1 on 7/18/05|
I definitely believe in using the herbs of the field, etc. I had skin cancer and was scheduled for surgery. Through as a series of events that began by an act of kindness on my part, the Lord led me to the use of an herbal remedy which involved a cleansing diet, use of a topical ointment, faith, and prayer. Herbs are the foundation of many of the modern products purchased at the pharmacy. Herbal healings take longer because they require your active participation in the healing process.
---Erin on 7/18/05|
I believe aspirin is derived from herbs, or a palnt anyway. Would that be from the devil. & Digitalis, used for centuries fro heart trouble come from the foxgove.
I think these herbal remediesa re as valid as those created in laboratories, and both are given to us by God through God-given men's wisdom
I am concerned though about the mumbo-jumbo that sometime goes with it, such as "crystal power".
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/18/05|
Herb, I actually didn't use the word holistic, you did. I'd be interested to know why you think herbalism is of the devil and rooted in the occult. Could you tell me please?
---Paulette on 7/18/05|