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Are We Under The Law

The word tells us that we are not under the Law. But, Jesus came to fullfill the law and live it. He was under the law. We are told that the ten commandment are still to be lived by today. So, somehow we are to serve God by doing the ten commandments but yet not be under the law?

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 ---Cathy on 7/27/05
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The perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ is, by the grace of God, imputed to the sinner. The righteousness that saves is an alien righteousness received by faith.
---Tina5349 on 9/26/07

amen Mike! it is unfortunate but the unspiritual simply cannot understand what you stated as they themselves lack any testimony of being born again in Christ; all they can do is toot their religion.
---lee on 10/25/06

Jesus said the law was until John the Baptist. He said now the Kingdom of God has come unto us. We are not made just or holy or righteous by the civil and cerimonial rules and regulations of the law. We now become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Now as we walk by faith in Christ we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law by our new nature in Christ.
---Mike on 10/25/06

"we are NOT under law" So I can go kill anyone I want. Take from the banks what I want. Is that it.WRONG!!! "JESUS IS THE LAW AND HE DOES NOT NEED TO BE UNDER THE LAW" Lazy people rely on Jesus to live the law for them. Lazy unchristian people say all these just so they can break any law. "Yes" the 10 commands still stand until eternity. It is perpetual, ongoing forever. Break one and u break the lot.Jesus is the Law, whom do you worship?
---mmadm on 10/24/06

so the Law doesnt apply any more huh? Jn 14:15 'If ye love me, keep my commandments."
---r.w. on 10/22/06

Galatians 4:1-6 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
---Exzucuh on 9/4/06

According to the law Jesus blasphemed by saying he was the Son of God. He broke the sabbath by picking corn and healing people, he broke the law of gravity by walking on the water, he traveled on the sabbath,he did not do ceremonial washing, he attacked people in the outer court of the temple turning over tables. He did not respect the priests the pharisees or the lawyers he continually called them names and condemned them.He touched gentiles and went into their houses.
---Exzucuh on 9/4/06

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
---Exzucuh on 9/4/06

Jesus obeyed his Father not the Law the law is for servants of sin not The Son's of God
Hebrews 3:5-6 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
---Exzucuh on 9/4/06

Jesus obeyed his Father not the Law the law is for servants of sin not The Son's of God
Hebrews 3:5-6 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
---Exzucuh on 9/4/06

cathy, How can Jesus be under the law when He is the Law. God simply commanded us to obey the 10 commands so how can we mere human beings go against His direct command? why cant you all understand this simply put statement from the Lord. Know this, trample upon His Laws and you miss the boat. The Law Jesus was talking about are the Ceremonial Laws that are done away at the cross. Please, Do a proper study of the different 2 sets of laws people.
---jana on 9/4/06

Nowhere does the N.T. tell us to live by the 10 Commandments.
The Law was to show us what sin is...and that we were guilty.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Now Jesus is our justifier, not the law.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
---Donna2277 on 9/4/06

Jesus said he did nt come to destroy the Law. it is used and has always been used to make us aware of our sinful condition.
---r.w. on 9/3/06

we are not under the law if we are obedient to it ... the law is for the unrepentant or the non believer or the disobedient.
---jana on 8/29/06

Apart from the Spirit we can do nothing weather it is fulfill the moral aspects of the law or understrand the civil and ceremonial portions of the law. My point is only by the power of the Holy Spirit can we love, thus fulfilling the law and understanding the spirit of the law.
---Ryan on 8/18/06

lee, I know some do wish to break down the law into three separate parts: Civil, moral and ceremonial. I do not see the necessity to do this because the law was given as a whole. It is refered to as "The law." However I have no problem with people breaking it into three parts to better understand it. Only full understanding of the law can come through the Spirit.
---Ryan on 8/18/06

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Ryan - **The Holy Spirit will not lead us into breaking the law.**
But many of the (over 600) laws in the Old Covenant are not binding on the church; among them some civic and ceremonial laws. Some laws were given exclusively for the benefit of Israel and to distinguish them from other nations.
As a guide, if it is not in the New Testament it should at least be an optional thing (such as dietary laws, Sabbath observance - Romans 14).
---lee on 8/18/06

Jesus told us the "How": Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart mind and strength and thy neighbor as thyself. Jesus than gave us the power of the Holy Spirit to live within us and lead us. The Holy Spirit will not lead us into breaking the law. The law is the perfect law of God and the Nation of Israel attempted to understand it through the flesh and they failed. We now have the Power of the Holy Spirit to lead us. We are no longer under law we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
---Ryan on 8/17/06

This is an interesting question. The law is refered to as "The ministry of death engraved on stone tablets." and it is called "Weakless and useless in the flesh." We are told that the new covenant comes with greater glory. We are told that not one jot or tittle shall pass away from the law. We are told all about what the law is and why we have law but very seldom are we told "How" to fulfill the law.
---Ryan on 8/17/06

jana - **the bible simply says God's 10 commandments they're perpetual...**

Moral law can be construed as being perpetual because such reflects that very nature of God Himself. But observance of a Sabbath (4th commandment) has nothing to do with moral law as does not reflect any of the attributes of God. Also we note that prior to Moses, there was no Sababth, so how could the 4th commandment be perpetual? Me thinketh that you have been reading too much of Egg White instead of the Bible.
---lee on 8/17/06

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friends, I sense a spirit of unbelief and confusion amongst us..for example, the bible simply says God's 10 commandments they're perpetual, ongoing forever, simple english yet we argue against this simplicity of language and against Him...are we all true christians?
---jana on 7/13/06

2. These laws reflect the permanent, transcultural elements of relationships, both divine and human. Other laws were intended for temporary conditions of society. This means that some laws are absolute and eternal, while others may be annulled by God for historical reasons, such as the dietary and ceremonial laws of Israel. But we are not under the law for condemnation, because we live by grace. We still have to obey God's moral laws are else we sin against God. without the laws we could not be judged.
---lupe2618 on 8/4/05

Cathy, concerning the law, God's law is the ultimate standard of righteousness and the supreme norm for judging right and wrong. As our sovereign, God has the authority to impose obligations on us, to command our obedience, and to bind our conscience. He also has the power and right to punish disobedience when we violate His law. (Sin may be defined as disobedience to God's law.) Some laws in the Bible are directly based on the character of God.
---lupe2618 on 8/4/05

It is not important to me if someone agrees with my opinions.
What is important is what God says in his Word.
That is why I give references, so people can look it up. They can then be sure if it is or is not false doctrine.
If someone disagrees with what is clearly written, I can pray that the Holy Spirit will show them the truth.
What is most important as believers in Christ is that, we tell others about Jesus. And we love one another.
---Ulrika on 8/3/05

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brother Eloy, I hope and pray that this kind of talks don't ever discourage you from answering points of Scripture that you understand. I was discourage once but Alan brought me back to my senses. I have seen many of your posts and don't agree with been totally without sin, but I do agree with many of your other answers. We run into this matters sometimes but we are all human, forgiveness is hard many times but it is a must. One day we will be perfect.
---lupe2618 on 8/3/05

Lupe: When a believer makes a blanket statement that someone is not a Christian based on participation in a political ideology, or attending a certain church, that is horribly divisive and judgmental, not to mention WRONG. Those are lies of the devil and they must be challenged.
---Madison on 8/3/05

2. Brother Eloy has disagreed with me many times. I don't tell him his theology is twisted and that he is a liar. I know where his heart is and that is with God even if I don't agree with everything he believes. I can see it from his answers to many people. Many would like to say worse things to Madison but won't because we know it is not right to do that. Some stay away and don't get involve because it is not for us to argue but to edify each other. God forgive us for what we are doing to His church.
---lupe2618 on 8/3/05

Alan, I don't show hated to anyone. I don't think Eloy does either. When he mentiones something I can see where he is coming from and he says how he feels. I try my best to not say anything to anyone about Catholics as much as possible. I do some times in order to prove a point have to bring it up. I don't post questions that will hurt someone, I do it for learning. When I feel I made a mistake I tell them I am sorry as I have already told Madison on a very early posting.
---Lupe2618 on 8/3/05

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3. we can divide on many of the none essentials of our faith, and we can disagree with one another but we cannot disagree with God because we don't like something. It is not our laws that we go by, but God's. We lived before doing what we wanted but we don't live like that anymore. We have a different Judge to face. We have free will now and will have to answer for what we are doing.
---lupe2618 on 8/3/05

2. Any true Christian that says that same sex marriage is ok as Randy stated and someone else on abortion, that it is ok to suck the brains of an unborn child is to me not following the word of God. I don't know how else to put it. We should be for life all of us. How can we call ourselves Christian and not agree with God? There is something wrong there. People cannot have it both ways. We are different. We are not of the world. There should be fruits that show in us of who we are.
---lupe2618 on 8/3/05

Alan, I believe you do not understand what the liberal movement has done to our way of life here in the states. It is this believe that is running wild in our country and has divided our country. There is good and honest Democrats and I believe in them, I know there is many consevatives that are good. It is the liberal thinking that is distroying our way of living. Sure it is good to help the poor, many of us do. We cannot control everything as Christians but our thoughts should always be for life.
---lupe2618 on 8/3/05

Alan: Thank you for seeing the need to address behavior that says that we are not Christians because we do not live up to Eloy's standards.
---Madison on 8/3/05

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Yes Lupe there is someone here who shows hatred of anyone who disagrees with him.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 8/3/05

Lupe ... none of those who disagree with Eloy accuse him of not being a Christian.
Why is it OK for him to insult them with that accusation?
---Alan8869_of_UK on 8/3/05

Madison, your words betray who you are. Your false accusation is not received. And i will not return to this thread to read any responses.
---Eloy on 8/3/05

mea culpa.

---Madison on 8/2/05

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we can bring our opinion forward. That the Lord hated the wicked and the wickedness of man is in Scripture but you don't have to attack him everywhere he goes. that is not right sister. I know I am sticking my neck out but I can see this is leading to something God would not want, and that is hate between each other. I hope that you understand how this has turned out. The focus on learning about God to getting personal.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

Madison, even in these questions you are going after brother Eloy. He isn't lying in his statement. He has answered the question on liberals and now these one and you attack him constantly. I know you have a lot of pride on what you believe but just because it is your opinion does not make it right for you to say such things to him. We are all Christian and should help each other. If there are none essental dissagreements that is ok we can at least listen, and don't have to agree.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

Psalms 11:5 The Lord tries the righteous: but the wicked and him that loves violence his soul hates.
---Ulrika on 8/2/05

The old testament tells wonderful, true stories of men God showed favor to because of their faith.
Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Genesis 5:26
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Genesis 6:8
Abram was blessed by the king of Salem, who was the priest of the most high God. Genesis 14:18,19 Hebrews 7:1-3
Some on the men of faith are talked about in Hebrews chapter 11.
---Ulrika on 8/2/05

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Ulrika, I remember at my former church, the pastor once told us not to look at the past or the Old Testament. That as Christians we are to look only at what we have in Christ and to look forward to what is coming. I didn't understand how I could really know God if I didn't start from the Old Testament. It is good to know all about Christ and what our work is now in Him but we cannot understand what we have now if we don't understand the Old Testament.
---Lupe2618 on 8/2/05

Eloy: You told lies about God saying that He hates the wicked. I cannot sit by quietly and let that lie go unaccounted for. You did not show me one Bible verse backing up your claim. Instead you gave me verses that say God hates the wickeds' behavior.

I am a born-again, blood bought, child of God and will not sit by and let such horrible lies be posted without admonishing the person who is posting them. Scriptures say we are to do that.
---Madison on 8/2/05

Lupe, thanks for sharing from Micaiah.

Isaiah tells why we do not know why God does what he does, unless he tells us in the Word of God. Isaiah 55:7-11 Ephesians 3:2-6 ICorinthians 2:7-16 James 1:5,6
---Ulrika on 8/2/05

2. Jesus confined His public ministry almost exclusively to them and forbade His disciples to go among others until after the day of Pentecost. Matt. 10:5,6; 28:19. Multitudes were left with no chance to hear the Gospel, and consequently died in their sins. If He had chosen to Christianize India and China a thousand years ago, He most certainly could have accomplished His Purpose. I give this views to show that God's love and works are as He pleases for a purpose that only He knows.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

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The story of King Ahab shows that God is not just love but also does what is right in the heavens and in the earth. He shows His love but also shows His justice. also if we see that in all ages the greater portion of mankind has been left destitute even of the external means of grace. For centuries the Jews, who were very few in number, were the only people to whom God was pleased to make any special revelation of Himself.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

5. God shows His involements many times but other times we can only speculate. God shows His grace from the beginning when He set the tone after the curse to Adam and Eve and has always done right. Without the past, "Old Testament" we cannot read the future events clearly. From the fall to now all Scripture is just as important. The story of Pharoah is just as interesting to read. How God got involve in the bringing up of Pharoah for God's purpose. The same with Esau story.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

4. Can we say that God shows His love this way and understand it? We cannot, because He has a purpose for what He does. God's decrees were carried out and look what happen to the king. I believe that many as I was taught was to look ahead for what we have in Christ and not to look at the past because the past is past. I too always looked at what we have in Christ. I didn't pay that much attention as to how we got to where we are now in Christ.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

3. " I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets, he said. You will succeed in enticing him, said the Lord. Go and do it." So now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you." If you can see in this case God did what He knew was right with a good purpose and morally right. Can we say that God had love in what He did? He did have love, to make things right He holds that sovereign right.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

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2. In this book you can see how God speaks through Micaiah, the prophet speaks about what he see's. The Lord sitting on His throne with all the host of heaven standing around Him on His right and on His left. He asked them, "Who will entice Ahab into attacking Romoth Gilead and going to his death there?" "one suggested this, and another that, Finally a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, "I will entice him." By what means? the Lord asked.
---lupe2618 on 8/2/05

Madison, ridicule and false accusations can not issue from a born-again heart, of which you say that you have. And Pierr you also should read the scriptures that i've given again. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I HATED?" Malachi 1:2,3; Romans 9:13. "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters." Hosea 9:15.
---Eloy on 8/2/05

What I believe from reading God's word is:
1. God loves us.
2. Because of His love, he gave us grace -the gift of salvation by faith in Jesus's life, death, resurrection. John 11:25,26 14:6 1John 4:13-21 2John1:3
3. Also because of God's love, he gives us mercy (He does not give us what we deserve)Psalm 136 The entire chapter tells of God's mercy.
4. What do we deserve? Eternity seperated from God.
5. Love is the fulfilling of the law.Romans 13:10 John 15:12,17 1John 4:7-12
---Ulrika on 8/1/05

God is Love. 1John 4:8,16 God's love: John 3:16 Ephesians 2:4 Romans 8:35 1John 3:1God is just. Zephaniah 3:5 Isaiah 45:21 Job 4:17 Acts 3:14 God is Righteous. Psalms 7:9 righteousness of God: Romans 1:17 wrath of God: Romans 1:18 Habakkak 3:2 Matthew 3:7 Romans 2:5 5:9 Revelation 6:16,17 Hosea 10:8 Luke 23:30 God is merciful and gracious. 2Chronicles 30:9 Psalms 103:8 Jonah 4:2 Luke 6:36 James 5:11 1Peter 2:3 God's grace: Acts 18:27 Romans 3:24 5:20 6:14 Ephesians 2:8 Hebrews 4:16
---Ulrika on 8/1/05

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AHHH! From reading some postings here I have figured out one issue with Eloy. I think brother, your focus is a lot on the God of the Old Testament, vengeance, roth, judgment, tribulation etc whereas Christ brought a new way of seeing God as being One of Grace, mercy, forgiveness, loving the enemy instead of hating him and detroying him. I think many christians get this confused because of poor religious teachings in their past or present lives. Good teaching is essential for healthy spiritual insight.
---lisa on 8/1/05

Thanks for the correction and vote of confidence, Lupe. It was actually an attempt at Latin for "my fault". I still think that my initial definition of love and grace was lacking, but it is a bit difficult to define the love and grace of God. Pax :)
---Tina5349 on 8/1/05

Tina5349, it is "Mi culpa" just a correction on the spanish. What you wrote was ok to me. I don't read anything wrong with it or your fault of writing wrong. You wrote about love ok. Oh my Spanish is not to great either, just happen to see your quote. bye
---lupe2618 on 8/1/05

Sister Madison, I believe comments like that one are not good for all of us. We can listen and don't have to agree but remarks like that don't help anyone but bring hate. I ask you for forgiveness once remember? I knew what I had said was wrong and wasn't bringing us together as the church of Christ. I was showing my feelings on something I didn't agree but even if I thought I was right, I was wrong by not taking into account your life.
---Lupe2618 on 8/1/05

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5. Some laws in the Bible are directly based on the character of God. These laws reflect the permanent, transcultural elements of relationship, both divine and human. Other laws were intended for temporary conditions of society. This means that some laws are absolute and eternal, while others may be annulled by God for historical reasons. Only God Himself may set aside such laws. Human beings never have the authority to set aside God's law.
---lupe2618 on 8/1/05

4. which He has revealed to us in the Bible. God's law is the ultimated standard of righteousness and the supreme norm for judging right and wrong. As our sovereign, God has the authority to impose obligations on us, to command our obedience, and to bind our conscience. He also has the power and right to punish disobedience when we violate His law. People only want to believe in the love of God but His wrath is also binding. the lost, have to have a repented heart from the wrong they have done.
---lupe2618 on 8/1/05

3. of ordering His universe. These laws are expressions of His sovereign will. God is a law unto Himself. This simply means that God acts according to His own moral character. His own character is not only morally perfect, it is the ultimate standard of perfection. His actions are perfect because His nature is perfect, and He always acts according to His nature. As God's creatures, we are also requierd to do what is right. God demands that we live according to His moral law,
---lupe2618 on 8/1/05

2. I don't know why you are shocked in knowing that. 1 Samuel speaks about what Saul was told to do to the wicked. Kill them. In Hebrews 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; That God hates the wicked is true, that He is willing to give them grace is also true. You cannot have one without the other. We are still under His moral law. God rules the universe by law. Nature itself operates under His providential government. The so called laws of nature merely describe God's normal way
---lupe2618 on 8/1/05

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Pierr, I don't know what you mean about God. There is many verses and stories about how God hated the wicked. I believe Eloy is correct in what he says. I think you are thinking about God's love that last forever but you have not taken into account the wrath of God. I believe everyone always talks about the goodness of God but always avoid His wrath and justice. You cannot just hang on to the good that is mentioned in Scripture and disregard the justice.
---lupe2618 on 8/1/05

Eloy: Those verses DO NOT say that God hates the wicked. It says he has wrath toward the wicked. Big difference.

My kids have done things in their lifetime that had me feeling wrath toward them. That did not stop me from loving my children. I experienced anger over their behavior.

Again, you are either twisting the scripture to serve your warped theology, or you are just plain lying.
---Madison on 8/1/05

Eloy: Gulp! Did I read that you believe God HATES THE WICKED!!! You can't be serious. You mean God asks us to love our ennemies but reserves the right to hate His ennemies!
NO WAY! He is LOVE and while He hates the sin, He always loves the sinner!
---Pierr7958 on 8/1/05

Luke 15: 20-21 KJV And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.
Eloy, from this verse his father loved him even before he confessed. He could have been coming back to ask for more money.
---randy on 8/1/05

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Madison, i have given scriptures of God's hate for the wicked, just as exemplified in Noah's day, and in Sodom and Amorah. God doesn't destroy the wicked out of love, but out of pure hatred. But you will believe whatever you desire. And know this, it is not prudent to call any of God's children liars. Please read Matthew 12:36,37.
---Eloy on 8/1/05

Madison, read them again, they are loaded with God's hate and wrath for sinners, and God's love for the penitent. So read them again, but this time accept the scriptures as truth. And no child of God's is a liar, so again i say to you, Judge not, else you will be judged.
---Eloy on 8/1/05

Sorry, folks. I gave a lousy definition of love and grace earlier today.
Mea Culpa
---Tina5349 on 8/1/05

How can we love someone if we don't like him? We dont always have warm cozy feelings about our neighbor, but we are commanded to seek his good regardless of our feelings toward him. Jesus may have had feelings toward different people, but as Randy said earlier, He loves all equally, and forgives us all equally too.
---Tina5349 on 7/31/05

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You may be confusing (agape) love and (phileo) love. Phileo has more to do with feelings and pleasure, or friendship. God's love is agape, and agape is not "a feeling". Feelings are passive and often fleeting. God commands us to love (agape), not to feel. God is not passive in our salvation. He is very active. God's love is (agape).
---Tina5349 on 7/31/05

not under. above. bible says " this is to love God- to obey. so in one way if you already love the lord then obedience will be the byproduct but if you are like me then by obedience you will find love. jesus was obedient because he loved us. so in that way the first commandment is first indeed that it's a moot point to sacrifice if you do not love; you've missed the point.
---matthew on 7/31/05

Tina: Love is a feeling of affection, and God's love was affection to the point of sacrifice. Grace is unmerited favor, which God showed us in forgiving us though we don't deserve it. There is a difference. They are not synonyms.
---Madison on 7/31/05

Just a suggestion to any who are interested. It might be helpful to read "Two Kinds of Righteousness" by The Rev. Father Martin Luther.

It's available on line.
---Tina5349 on 7/31/05

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What are your definitions of love and grace?

Here's mine. Love-agape=good will, benevolence, affection. Grace=good will, loving-kindness, favour

I guess you can call me ignorant.
---Tina5349 on 7/31/05

Emcee: Grace and love are NOT synonymous, and to say they are shows ignorance. Eloy stated that God's love is conditional. I believe that His grace is dependent on our repentance. BUT, His love is everflowing regardless of our behavior.
---Madison on 7/31/05

Eloy: Those verses do nothing to prove that God's love is conditional on our behavior. Please, give me chapter and verse where it says that God's love is conditional, or stop spreading lies about God.
---Madison on 7/31/05

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