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Dr. Title Misleading For Pastor

My pastor has a doctor degree other than theology or related to Christianity and he puts Dr. on the church bulletin, his church cards and the church sign. He also wanted the title of Dr. on the church website. Is this misleading?

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david:

Matthew 5:18: Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Anyone who relates to God under the Old Covenant is obliged to keep the Law. Jesus gave us a new covenant based on grace. Anyone who wants relates to God under that convenant is NOT obliged to keep the Law.

The Old Convenant is still there. (God would be a covenant-breaker by unilaterally cancelling it). It just doesn't apply to us. It DID apply to Jesus, as he was born and circumcized a Jew.

James 2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I.e. breaking the Sabbath is legally no different from murder.
---StrongAxe on 6/24/20


StrongAxe
I agree and you have a good logical question. God simply changed the Law, and under the New Covenant, which began at the birth of Jesus, the Sabbath was no longer a Law.
Proof?

Where in the New Testament does it say a Sabbath breaker will go to hell?

But a thief, adulterer, liar, or murderer will. (Matthew 15:19)(Matthew 19:15) Simply put, Breaking the Sabbath Law does not show an Evil heart. The other sin Jesus mentioned in those verses,...does. The Law of Christ is all about changing the heart.

Read (Revelation 21:8)...and you will find no Sabbath breakers going to hell. Also, read ( 1 Timothy 1:8-10) and you will see again...no Sabbath breakers will be condemned.
---David on 6/24/20


David:

I find this curious. So which laws WAS Jesus subject to? Was he subject to the Law of Murder, or was he free to murder whomever he pleased?

Either Jesus was subject to the Law, or he was not.
1) If he WAS subject to the Law, your assertion that "Jesus was not subject to the Law of the Sabbath" is incorrect.
2) If he was NOT subject to the Law, then the whole point of him being sinless is meaningless - i.e. you can't break the law if no laws apply to you. Jesus was supposed to have lived a perfect life, to show us that we have no excuse, but that is meaningless if he wasn't subject to the same restrictions that we are.

Jesus fulfilled the law, so that we don't have to.
---StrongAxe on 6/24/20


David, Jesus never broke the Law of God concerning the Sabbath. The laws you seem to be talking about are the religious laws put there by man concerning the Sabbath. The Sabbath was there for man, yet man had added more to the law then what God intended.
You should read the law concerning the Sabbath.
---ven. on 6/24/20


David.....even says that christ committed sin bec. christ broke the 4th commandment.---mike

Mike,
Jesus was not subject to the Law of the Sabbath. Therefore he was free to do as he pleased. His and the disciples actions in (Matthew 12) prove this point, because what they did was against Sabbath Law.

If you dont think what they did was against Sabbath Law, read what happened to a man who simply picked up sticks on the Sabbath in (Numbers 15:32-36).

My point was not that Jesus broke the Law, but that he was not under Sabbath Law. And if he is not under Sabbath Law..his followers arent under that Law.
---David on 6/24/20




mike:

You wrote: david is cluny is LAWLESS he even says that christ committed sin bec. christ broke the 4th commandment.

I'm curious what you meant by that? What does Cluny have to do with any of this? Are you trying to say that david and Cluny are the same person? (They're not). Cluny hasn't even been on these blogs since Feb. 1. (He moved then, and his computer is still in storage). I'm pretty sure he never said that Christ was lawless, or that he broke the 4th commandment.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/20


David, Happy Fathers day.
Second you gave: Hebrews 6:1.. and said "... those mentioned in (Hebrews 6:1). He is not speaking about Good works, Good, because they bring us to faith in God.
He was speaking of those who show themselves doing deeds that makes them look good, dead works meaningless because the heart is not right. In Mathew 23:25-28, Jesus speaks of those people who do dead works. Woe, to the Scribes and Pharisees..
The writer of Hebrews, wants the people to stop doing what they did in the Old Testament, repeating "laying again" what was only intended to be foundational, "repentance from dead works" was repentance from evil works, people repented but were never right with God.
---ven. on 6/23/20


Sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4)
Jesus was perfect, without sin, and yet He broke the Law of the Sabbath in (Matthew 12). How could Jesus, our Lord, our example,......be perfect, without sin, if we under the Law of the Sabbath?
---David on 5/16/20
how can you have faith when you claim that christ broke the sabbath law? Christ, Paul never abolished the 7th day. you keep the 10 commandments BECAUSE YOU ARE SAVED, have FAITH.
reason we are UNDER THE LAW is WE SINNED & deserve DEATH (UNDER THE LAW). that is the result of breaking the LAW OF GOD - death
---mike on 6/23/20


david
romans 6:15 says What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
romans 3:31 - Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
david is cluny is LAWLESS he even says that christ committed sin bec. christ broke the 4th commandment.
---mike on 6/23/20


Samuelbb7:

Keeping 10C may or may not be a dead work, depending on WHY you keep them.

If you keep them out of consideration from others, or because you find the idea of breaking them abhorrent, it's because you love your neighbor as yourself, as Jesus commanded.

But if you keep them because the Bible says so, or because killing and stealing will send you to jail, or because they will send you to hell, THEN they are just dead works.

Atheist Penn Gilette said someone asked him "If you don't believe in God, what's to stop you from killing as much as you want?", and he replied, "I *DO* kill as often as I want - and the amount I want is zero."
---StrongAxe on 6/23/20




David Keeping the Ten Commandments are not dead works.---Samuelbb7

Samuel
We are saved by Grace...Through faith. I see the value in the Ten Commandments...for they are what brings us to repentance, (Romans 7:23-25) But....we are saved by faith, not through keeping the Ten Commandments.

The writer of (Hebrews 6:1) calls the Law dead works because it does not cause us to have faith in God, like Abraham. How did Abraham acquire his faith? Was it by omission or commission?
---David on 6/23/20


David Keeping the Ten Commandments are not dead works. They are acts of love. In Matthew 5 Jesus spoke on the Ten and there basis which is love of GOD and love of others.

Dead works are what hypocrites do. They think that they can do some good thing and it helps save them. Others think doing good is optional. Love is not optional. Love works.

Read Romans 2. Also James he supports that love leads to obeying the Ten Commandment and more.

Again Jesus in Matthew 5 shows that those who are saved walk in love.

Remember the good servants. Who did right because it is right? Luke 17:7-10
---Samuelbb7 on 6/22/20


Scripture everywhere teaches that salvation is not on the basis of works see, Eph. 2:8,9, Romans 4:4 tells us"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as Grace but as debt.---ven

Everywhere Ven?
Can you Show me Outside of Pauls epistles? Sure Paul taught it, but the real question is...what kind of works is he referring to? He is speaking of Dead works,.... those mentioned in (Hebrews 6:1). He is not speaking about Good works, Good, because they bring us to faith in God.

The Laws of omission (Ten Commandments) are dead works, dead because they dont cause us to put our faith in God. But the Laws of Commission, (Law of Christ)...they are the ones which bring us to faith in God.
---David on 6/21/20


David, when you mention the passages in Romans 2, you were speaking concerning one group of people Paul was talking. There was two groups in all those passages. Those in Verse 5,and those in verse 8. What this passages show is that God's judgment's are always on the deeds or choices we make in life, our works. We will all be judge by our works. Those who are in Christ, and those who are not.
Scripture every where teaches that salvation is not on the basis of works see, Eph. 2:8,9, Romans 4:4 tells us"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as Grace but as debt." Grace for salvation comes from God.
---ven. on 6/20/20


Romans 2:2:5. To those who do good there will be glory, honor and peace, nothing about salvation.---ven.

Ven
Nothing? What is Eternal Life?

But because of thy hardness and impenitence of heart, thou treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality,....eternal life, but unto those who are contentious, and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who doeth evil, upon the Jew first and also upon the Gentile,
(Romans 2:5-9)
---David on 6/20/20


How do you reconcile that with Ephesians 2:8-9---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
I reconcile my teachings with the Gospel of Christ. But since many folks believe as you do, it is a question that I need to answer.

The works Paul is referring to, are laws of omission, know as the Ten Commandments. Keeping These Laws do not cause a man to have faith in God, which is why God changed the Law, to a Law of commission (John 14:21).

Paul compares the New Covenant, with the one Abraham had with God.(Romans 4).
Why?
Because by keeping Gods commandments, Abraham came to have faith in God. The First command he is given, under the covenant he had with God, is found in (Genesis 12:1-4). The Lords is in (John 14:21-23).
---David on 6/18/20


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David:

Then how do you reconcile that with Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
?
---StrongAxe on 6/17/20


David, you forgot to mention to whom Paul was talking to. For that you have to start in verse 5, he was talking about the lost only.
" But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of judgement of God. Romans 2:2:5. To those who do good there will be glory, honor and peace, nothing about salvation.
Many who are lost do good deeds, even some of the real evil ones do good deeds to some people.
---ven. on 6/17/20


Yes, in Revelation 20:12 the dead are JUDGED according to their works. They are not SAVED according to their works.
---StrongAxe


God who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life, but unto those who are contentious, and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who doeth evil, upon the Jew first and also upon the Gentile, but glory, honor and peace to every man who worketh good, to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.(Romans 2:6-10)
---David on 6/17/20


David, Axe is correct. He broke it up, the point about works, very well. Believers works that are bad will be burned, at the Judgement Seat of Christ. All other's, the lost, go to the Great White Throne of Judgement, where they will be Judge for their works. They will get what they deserve.
---ven. on 6/16/20


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David:

James 2:14+ clears up this confusion. It's faith that saves us, not works. But works demonstrate our faith. If we don't have works, it's a fair indication that we don't have faith. As Jesus said, "by their fruits you will know them".

God judges our works. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 says that our works will be judged. If our works are good, they will be rewarded. If not, they will be burned - YET WE WILL STILL BE SAVED. Our salvation itself does not depend on our works.

Yes, in Revelation 20:12 the dead are JUDGED according to their works. They are not SAVED according to their works.
---StrongAxe on 6/16/20


This is why we are saved through God's actions alone, and not our own works ---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
This statement is a bit confusing. If God does all the work, do you believe God judges us according to his works?

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Revelation 20:12)


If so, why does John say in Revelation, God will judge according to their works?
---David on 6/16/20


David, now one must define what exactly the author of Hebrews is saying we should OBEY. I believe the text ALL OF IT, is pointing to Jesus becoming obedient unto death, Paul also states in Philippians 2. So we too are to keep this mind in us as it was in Jesus...Being made conformable to His death SO THAT ...Phil 3.....totally outranks the doctrine of the concision re LAW KEEPERS . The LAW does not ask for our obedience unto death. Just see Pauls words again in Galatians 2:20-21
---kathr4453 on 6/15/20


David, Heb. is correct,
"
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him,
(Hebrews 5:9)

All those who obey Him are those who are born of God. They are His Children. They are being change daily. They are not perfect, they are changing, for the better, becoming more like Christ.
---ven. on 6/15/20


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what about OBEDIENCE? the Law of God defines SIN - that's it. the Law of God DOES not earn you salvation. the Law of God is evidence of YOUR FAITH & salvation.
when a person repents, he comes into the faith, believes that Christ died for all. we receive that Grace, pardon. What then? are we now license to sin? a believer then would use the LAW of God to define SIN. his/her actions or works is evidence that he/she is SAVED. even Paul said 'I delight in the Law of God.' it is liberty, perfect, eternal & our love for God
---mike on 6/15/20


Let's try this again. Jesus learned obedience through the things He suffered, is what the verses say just prior David. Heb 5:8 and being made perfect, became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. So now let's see what it is to Obey Him. Paul has an interesting statement in Philippians 3....that I may KNOW HIM, and the fellowship of His suffering, being made conformable to His death that I may attain to the resurrection. Is it at all possible that Philippians 2 show exactly what our obedience entails? KEEPING THIS MIND IN YOU THAT WAS ALSO IN CHRIST...became OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH EVEN DEATH OF A CROSS.

Obedience is I DIE DAILY. Always in submission to the cross ...
---kathr4453 on 6/15/20


ven:

As I pointed out earlier, if your house is on fire, and you call the fire department, and they come and put out the fire, your house is saved. YOU had to make the phone call. It was ultimately YOUR choice to do so. However, YOU did not put out the fire. It was not YOUR work that did it, so you have no cause to boast about saving your house.

This is why we are saved through God's actions alone, and not our own works -BUT- WE still must make the free choice to accept or reject that salvation.
---StrongAxe on 6/15/20


So are you both saying the author of Hebrews, is wrong? If I am wrong, so is this Author.

And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him,
(Hebrews 5:9)
---David on 6/15/20


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ven, I don't believe in the twisted notion that faith is a work. No scripture supports your twisted thinking. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. If I believe a chair will hold me and sit in it believing it will support me that is not works. If I made the chair that would be works. Jesus made the chair and said sit here, I promise it will support you, my faith is in His works. Our faith is in the finished works of Christ. I cannot do any works to add to Christ ALONE.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/20


Kath, you are saying salvation is not of works and turn around and tell us the lost come to Christ on their own free will. Their own works.
You also write: "Faith is not of WORKS Or of the law. So stop agreeing with Calvinists that faith is works."
We believe faith is the work of God on the believer.
"For by grace you have been saved through "faith" and that not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works, least anyone should boast" Eph. 2:8-9. Pretty clear, man has no faith for Christ to come to Him, God has to grant him that faith to believe in Christ and come to Him.
---ven. on 6/14/20


just arrogance...parable of the pharisee & tax collector - it said that the pharisee 'who look down'. im sure that you are wrong sinner & he is always right & holy. you are to hear the word of God not be impressed by his academics. that's just it academic, theory no practical teaching. i have experienced that.
---mike on 6/14/20


David that's the problem, it's not David's gospel vs Calvinism. I don't agree with either of you. But anything exposing WORKS SALVATION is from scripture showing you have misunderstood that works comes as a result of salvation not a way to earn salvation. Faith is not of WORKS Or of the law. So stop agreeing with Calvinists that faith is works.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/20


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David:

You wrote: Kathryn was arguing agaist Calvinism and now she is for it. How did you do it?

No, becuse if she really believed that, there would be no use to "get through" to anyone, because they would either believe or not, per God's Will, and nothing we could say or do would change that.

Also, just because you agree with one thing a person says, that doesn't necessarily mean you agree with everything a person says. I agree with some thing ven says, and disagree with others, and I'm sure kathr4453 does too.
---StrongAxe on 6/14/20


Thank goodness ...maybe ven can get through to David.
---kathr4453


Ven
Kathryn was arguing agaist Calvinism and now she is for it. How did you do it?

Before I answer your question, answer the ones I gave you.
---David on 6/14/20


Thank goodness ...maybe ven can get through to David.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/20


David, where do you get the idea that Paul was not born of the Spirit when he was speaking in Chapter Seven?? Did you not finish reading the rest of Romans 7?
Paul had just told us in Romans 6:1-11 That he had died to sin "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of his resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."
As you can see Paul was already saved. You have to read the Bible correctly. You want to make it say what you want it to say.
---ven. on 6/13/20


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David, you did not answer the question, how do you know who has the Holy Spirit? ---ven. on 6/12/20

Sorry Ven,
I was elaborating on what Jesus taught in (Matthew 7:15-20) and forgot to give you the foundation of what I was saying.

Also, Wrong David, I am not a Sabbath keeper.

Ven
(Romans 7:15-17) is Pauls testimony, his life before he was born of God, before he died to sin. If sin had died in him, that which caused him to sin, how could he sin?
Jesus and Paul also taught, a man can not have two masters. (Matthew 6:24) & (Romans 6:16-18).
If you are a sinner, and Also, a Son of God, How do you sin serve God with your sin?
---David on 6/13/20


David, you did not answer the question, how do you know who has the Holy Spirit? How does anyone know you have the Holy Spirit?
Second, you seem to think you are without sin because you keep the Sabbath. But no one is without sin. No one. Jesus is our Mediator in whom we have to come ask for forgiveness every day. Only Jesus is without sin. And while we are still in the flesh, we will continue to struggle with sin and temptation. Paul struggled a lot with sin that was in him.
"For what I am doing, I do not understand, For what I will to do, that I do not practice, but What I hate, that I do.....But now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."
Romans 7:15-17.
---ven. on 6/12/20


Concerning any person preaching, and claiming to have the Holy Spirit, how do you go about knowing whether someone has the Holy Spirit?--ven

Ven
You will know them by their fruit. Look at the people who attend your church, especially those who have been with the church for more than a year or two. Are they still slaves of sin, slaves as described by Jesus in (John 8:34)?

Do their teachings produce fruit, Sons of God, Sons as described in (1 John 1:9) KJV, those born of God who Can Not sin?

Look at the people in your church. Ask them if they sin. If they say yes, they are not Good Fruit, for those born of God do not sin.

I am not a JW. And I have no church affiliation.
---David on 6/12/20


David, hello again. Concerning any person preaching, and claiming to have the Holy Spirit, how do you go about knowing whether someone has the Holy Spirit? Do you have the Holy Spirit? If the person teaching you has the Holy Spirit, why are you following the Law? If you are learning from someone who was never trained in the Gospel, how do you claim to know the Truth.
One of your early leaders was Charles Russel, leader of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Is your church teaching what they teach now? Yes, many churches today have man studying at a seminary first. Depending where they go, they are trained. Many know who God really is. Not many here answering know the God of the Bible. His Sovereignty.
---ven. on 6/11/20


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David, that is why you have the right or choose to pick the church that teaches what you believe in your heart is correct. My wife and I visited many before we went to the one that taught reform teachings. It's up to you, what you want to follow. Follow Christ or follow some guy who doesn't know the God of the Bible.
---ven. on 6/11/20


Kath, you are now suggesting that any person can preach without having to go to a seminary or be disciple by anyone.---ven

Ven
If I go to a Methodist Seminary, they will not teach me the same things I would learn at a Baptist seminary.
If I go to a Lutheran seminary, they will not teach me the same things I would learn at a Wesleyan seminary.

My point is, seminarys teach their particular doctrine, of which there are many (Wide Gate). The Holy Spirit teaches one doctrine, the doctrine we know as Truth (Narrow Gate). (Matthew 7:13-15)
---David on 6/11/20


Strongaxe, that's what I thought you meant but just wanted to make sure. I agree.

I believe 1 Corinthians 2 is as relevant today as it was when it was written. To suggest one needs some sort of higher education to preach the Gospel is no where found in scripture. Reformed, Catholocism, Mormonism etc, are actually doctrines taught by men, I feel suppress the Holy Spirit. Much like what happened to Luther, or many who found organized religion one had to adhear to or get persecuted, as Calvin did to those who disagreed with his doctrine.

We are all called to PERSONALLY study to show ourselves approved unto God. So unlike reformed or Catholocism, I believe in the individual priesthood of the believer.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/20


kathr4453:

I'm saying that these days, most professionals with doctorates list their name, followed by specific doctorate title. Few say "Dr." before their name, because that title is vague, and doesn't convey any useful information, other than "I went to university and got some kind of degree". When speaking to one in person, one addresses them by the honorific "Dr. Jones", but when listing credentials, they always list the specific one. Someone who just lists himself as "Dr." isn't being professional about it.
---StrongAxe on 6/10/20


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Kath, you are now suggesting that any person can preach without having to go to a seminary or be disciple by anyone. That they just preach because they all have the Holy Spirit who has taught them. Any Tom & Jerry can claim to have the Holy Spirit.
You can claim to have the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues but how does anyone know what you say means anything? Maybe its why you throw passages out there with know point or explanation.
---ven. on 6/10/20


Strongaxe, I'm not following what you are saying. Unless you are saying many are easily deceived because they see a title that is not applicable to one profession. If perhaps the pastor is a Dr of animal husbandry and never disclosed that but wants folks to think his Dr is his level of advanced theological studies, which actually proves nothing in the first place as to ones spiritual understanding, since our spiritual understanding does not come from college courses, but the Indwelling HS. Christ is made into us the Wisdom and knowledge of Him.

ven is a perfect examp!e of lacking such indwelling, with his off the wall remarks having nothing to do with the thread.
---kathr4453 on 6/9/20


kathr4453:

If someone calls himself "John Smith, DDV", he's claiming to be a doctor of divinity. Or DDS for dentist, MD for medical doctor, LLD for doctor of law, or PHD for doctor of philosophy. If you look at most places where professionals list their credentials (e.g. on their doors and business cards), these days they almost always list what kind of doctor they are.

However, if someone just calls himself "Dr. John Smith", he's claiming to be a doctor, but not specifying in what field. People need to read what is actually written, without making assumptions based on their own pre-conceptions, and then complaining because they assumed incorrectly.
---StrongAxe on 6/9/20


Kath, how about when you lie? Does that count or not? Yes , we are all sinners.
---ven. on 6/9/20


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Those who "lie" and mislead about their credentials I don't believe are preaching the truth in the first place. And those who feel they need A title rather than use their God given GIFT , Ephesians 4, which God has given to EVERY BELIEVER is what we should focus on. The GIFTS FOR MINISTRY are given in the power of the Holy Spirit, don't come with TITLES OR DEGREES. UNLEARNED men like Peter are called and chosen by God. 1 Cor 2 God chooses the weak, base etc to bring to nothing those who think they are all that....Paul was a scholar who never claimed to be anything more than the GRACE GIVEN HIM BY THE LORD. He would rather glory in his weaknesses so that the POWER OF GOD WOULD REST UPON HIM.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/20


It matters not what he puts down as long as he preaches the Truth. What matters is the Truth.
---ven. on 6/8/20


Totally agree with David here.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/20


Personally I think that it is arrogant of a pastor to let people know his educational status. God does not look at the amount of time that a person has spent at university or the number of degrees that they have, but rather looks at our hearts. I have always (even as a young child) viewed it as extremely distasteful to put one's doctoral title in front of one's name (unless it is an MD in a work setting), especially when pastors do it. To me it seems as a not so subtle way of demanding respect of those around them and displays either pride or some sort of inferiority complex. Pastors should be humble and should not worry about who knows their educational status, it is simply not important to God.
---N on 6/3/20


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Good question Jim.
I find it amusing too.

Why does a man of God, find a need to put the title of Doctor before his name, when a doctorate is a title given by men, which clearly tells folks their education comes from men and not from God?

If I wanted an education coming from men, I would go to college, not to church.
---David on 12/20/17


Nvbarbara said, " If he has his Ph.D in anything, he may use the 'Dr.' title. Unfortunately many may think he has his doctorate in divinity and mislead some into thinking he knows more than he does on the subject."

My monastic superior has an earned Masters in Musical Education, and an honorary PhD in Theology. He refuses to use either of them, he just goes by Father Basil.

BTW, an EARNED doctorate in theology is a ThD.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


We had a pastor that had an honorary Dr. from a bible collage and he loved the title even though it wasnt earned. Youd be surprised at the political things pastors do to get churches that pay well. It makes me sick to think these politicians with connections being called to a church. Its a shame that people dont pray and ask the Lord to send them the pastor He wants for His people.
---D_E_Wilson on 12/19/17


Yes, it is wrong because he is working in the ministry, but his doctorate he received was not for the ministry. It would be the same thing as a veternarian doctor who treats animals or pets, and usse his Medical Doctorate to practice on human beings in a hospital. The exception would be that he uses his special doctorate to practice in the field that his doctorate is awarded for while he is in the ministry. For example, if I am a pastor of a church, and I have a doctorate in psychiatry or psychology or medicine, and I use my doctorate for psychological consultations or to write precriptions for people, during my pastorate, then it is acceptable.
---Eloy on 4/6/12


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The real question to me is WHY does he want this title added to everything. Taking a name, giving a name so much credence is part of the western Christian's culture but that doesn't mean it is a part of the Lord's view for His people. It is the same thing that satan wanted. To get credit and all eyes on him. Dangerous practice.
---L_Booker on 4/5/12


Not if he has earned the title.
---catherine on 8/12/10


Dr.
Dr in front of his name so he can strut his stuff. Trying to say - tell what he knows ( mostly carnal ), & what he does Not know ( Spiritually )
---Lawrence on 8/11/10


He may also have an Ed.D, or Psy.D. and use the title Dr. He earned that title and is free to use it any way he wishes. He is not misleading. He is communicating that he is learned in some subject.
---Madison on 9/21/07


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If he has his Ph.D in anything, he may use the 'Dr.' title. Unfortunately many may think he has his doctorate in divinity and mislead some into thinking he knows more than he does on the subject.

Remember the flaky Dr.Ruth who used to come on TV and give 'sex advice'? Her doctorate was in Elementary education!
---NVBarbara on 3/30/07


My opinion is this:
In CONVERSATION it is OK to use "Dr."
When WRITTEN it should be First Middle Last "Ph.D" "MD" etc.
Also: I think it is silly to introduce your self as "Dr. Lastname" in a non-academic setting. I'm a medical doctor and I don't go around introducing myself to strangers as "Dr. Lastname." I only use it when I am taking care of patients.
[I found this thread while searching for the "right" answer]
---Scott_B_Phillips_MD on 7/2/06


If a person has a Doctorate, they are entitled to use it. It really doesn't matter what it is in. It is up to your pastor to choose what he wants to use. He put in the time to obtain that degree and he should get the privilges that it gives. It is only a title they don't really matter anyway.
---Jared on 2/21/06


I have a Doctorate in Christian Counseling. I beleive that your pastor is entitled to list his credentials.
---Dr._Justin_Cyr on 9/1/05


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I don't believe we should be looking at what a pastor puts down as his title but be checking what he says compared to Scripture. Our learning is so important and that is why we are there to learn and grow as Christians. If we are to look at everything we don't agree with in peoples lives we would never have the time to learn more of God. Make sure his word is God's, if it is, be thankful that it is because many churches have people that don't know God's word and are leading away not closer to God.
---lupe2618 on 8/18/05


If I had spent as many years in college competing a degree like your pastor has, I would certainly want to put Dr. before my name. He has earned that title. In fact, it is a good thing that people who are wanting to know about your church are aware that they have such an educated pastor. Of course, what really matters is if he has a doctorate in Jesus!!!!
---Sally on 8/16/05


Anyone who has earned a doctorate is free to use the designation Dr. or Ph.D. It is not misleading and a pastor holding a doctorate in a field other than theology is not different. Doctorate degrees are meant to stretch one's analytical skills. You will be surprised how it is influencing his ministry even if he studied agric economy.
---Emmanuel on 8/16/05


Some folks will not respond if they don't know the pastor has doctorate of some type. He could use the title, "Rev. John Smith, Ph.D." But, this still may cause confusion. You can have a Ph.D. in many fields - but at least those reading this title will know he's a pastor. He could also write the title, as "Dr. John Smith, pastor". However, this will not state what discipline his doctorate is in. He could use a title, except "pastor" or "Rev.".
---WIVV on 8/15/05


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my pastor has a doctorate in theology, but he wants to be called Bro. To me, he has earned the right to be called dr. but he is humble enough not to want to be called dr. He really doesn't care who even knows he has a dr. degree. He works for the Lord.
---shira_5965 on 8/15/05


I don't think it's inappropriate to use his title if he earned it. A doctorate degree in theology doesn't even necessarily make one well versed in theology. That depends on the Bible college or Seminary. You can bet that they'll use the title. If he's a good minister, that's what really matters. We're supposed to check the word for ourself and see if it's the truth being taught. False teachers are very dangerous. That's why teachers receive a stricter judgment (James 3:1)
---Rick on 8/15/05


Many people have degrees like, MA, Dr, PhD, DDDDDDDDD, and so on, but that doesn't mean anything to God. God looks upon the condition of our heart, whether we have the knowledge of God circumcised in our heart or not, and not how many years we went to school or how many degrees we have. Many ministers who are university educated professors are not even saved, and they do not personally know Jesus Christ at all. And if the blind lead the blind, then both will fall into the ditch.
---Eloy on 8/15/05


What a shame that titles mean such a lot to people. He either does his job well or he doesn't. I hope this isn't a sign that he is being pompous. I know someone who has several qualifications and writes all the letters after his name as if they are part of his signature. He became a bit of laughing stock, it did not create the impression he expected.
---F.F. on 8/15/05


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Hmm... although I agree with everyone who said he certainly has the right to do so, reread what Jim wrote. My own pastor has a Doctorate *in* Theology and uses that in books he's written, but rarely around church. Letters to the congregation are signed "Pastor" as is our website. By itself this might not mean anything though; hopefully this "Dr." has people around him to keep him from getting too self-centered, or else why is he a pastor?
---danie9374 on 8/15/05


A Doctorate gives one the title of DR. whether it is in Dentistry or Basket Weaving. The role of minister calls for many disciplines not necessarily Theology.
I would ask him what his doctorate was in. Can he communicate?? Was it before he entered the ministry? Some of our best ministers set put on different plans before being called into the ministry.
---chuck on 8/14/05


No, if he worked hard & earned the title of "Doctor", then he is entitled to use it.
---Ann5758 on 8/14/05


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