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Does God Ordain What Happens

Did God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass? Is there anyone that does not believe this question? Just two simple questions, and please give scriptures to support why not.

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 ---lupe2618 on 8/18/05
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Or it wouldn't coming to pass. He knows where we do not know.
---Lawrence on 8/11/10

God planned from all eternity, and did, create man in His image (Gen 1:27.) Animals and plants do not have wills, but people do. God and Man can fellowship--you can't fellowship with a puppet. Man's free will gives the freedom to obey God or disobey. Otherwise our acceptance or rejection of Jesus' sacrifice would be a cruel, meaningless game God is playing. God knows what choices we will make before we make them. He is not restricted by Time. Geraldine
---Geraldine on 5/11/08

The question above comes from the Westminster Confession of Faith, verbatim. It is not scriptural, and it's roots are from Calvinism. God DOES NOT ordain whatever comes to pass. Does God ordain the murders, rapes, molesting of children that comes to pass, when His very Laws condemn these things? The mind of man and his reasonings are a stumbling block to himself. Lean Not Unto Thy Own Understanding declares the LORD GOD.
---james on 3/16/07

I will answer the question after/if you edit it. I don'think the Q:"Is there anyone who does not BELIEVE this question?" is appropriate! I also do not see 2 simple questions, I see 1 and it is not simple!
---Pierr7958 on 3/15/07

Brother Emcee, thank you for your statements and again for the love of Christ you have. I hope we always remain friends. Your coments help me work harder for the Lord. Blessings to you and your family.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

7. The church cannot condemn you because you just want to make sure. I have. I asked Christ to come into my heart and I confessed my sins to Him, told Him I was sorry for the person I was and later I too got baptist. It didn't cost me a thing. The essentials of the Christian faith are so important. I love you brother and hope that you at least think about what I said. I don't change anyone Emcee, All I try to do is to help, that is my only purpose. Blessings to you.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

7. The only thing that would stop you is pride. Pride that you might be wrong and don't want to admit it even if could cost you your salvation. I can see the pride of the Catholic Church in Ruben too. I know you love the church but the church is not responsible for your salvation. You are. I had that pride too Emcee so I know. It is like been from Texas, Texans have pride. I know I am from there. There would be nothing wrong for someone to make sure. Just to be on the saved side.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

6. Let me mention this, if you are a Catholic and you believe that you are saved by baptism, and you are told by others that the way to be born again is to make a commitment from your heart, and confess with a rependent heart that Jesus died for your sins and that He has resurrected, and that you love Him, what is wrong with that? Will it hurt you to say that? What would stop you from making sure that you are saved? Saying words or not that important, but what is in your heart is.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

5. I have so many books to research from. Five different bibles, commentaries from many, reference books, books of interpration. I want to make sure what I write is acceptable and true. You are a great person Emcee and you have a great heart. I have said that before. When I answer you all I hope for is that you check. I check what others write just to make sure. If I am wrong in something I want to know. I have learned a lot on subjects that I am not strong on.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

3. Man has been corrup from Adam and Eve. They change Scripture to match what they believe. Sometimes for power, for control, and to fill their agenda, whatever that might be. Charles Russel started his denomination because he didn't believe that Jesus came back in the flesh. and it goes on and on. Pride to me is what keeps them from knowing the truth. When someone is answered on a question, they get angry instead of checking to make sure they are right. They don't want to be told they are wrong.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

2. The history of Christianity all the way from Acts. It is so important to know. When I answer someone I don't know what denomination they are. I just answer from Scripture. I am one person in a group of many from different denominations. My hope is that at least one or two will check for themselves. Your church is not the first to do so much wrong, it started way in Scripture as Paul, Peter, Jude, and John tell us in Scripture. It is happening now in many denominations.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

hello brother Emcee, I went and checked what I wrote and yes, I did write that but did not have the same meaning you got. I meant that I don't like to talk about the Catholic Church but in some of my answers I have too. I sometimes have to because of the question. You know brother Emcee, I don't really study other denominations. I did about The Catholic Church only because I use to belong to it, Jehovah Witnesses, because of my sister that died,and Islam, because of what is happening now.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

Lupe of 18/8. Statement :your remark "I was trying my best to get away from the church of Rome but seem to get drawn back to it."Just a passing thought, the power of Almighty God works in strange ways.Blessings & encouragement in your journey of quest for Truth & salvation.
---Emcee on 9/27/05

God is, was, and will always be. He has to be asked of the devil to allow any calamity to fall. Either He will let things occur in our lives, or not. He aims to strengthen us, and give us knowledge and wisdom. Know that much of what we go through is due to our disobedience! Who questions that God has all the answers? He knows what it takes to get us where we need to be in this life and after. Live as best as you can according to the scriptures. Easy? No. Necessary? Yes! God will do the rest!
---Denece_Thomas on 9/27/05

Hello Mike, thank you for your answer. Sorry about the fine print. I guess when I answer I want to show why because a small statement doesn't explain the whole meaning but yours sure did. Why do you think people are scared to know that God is in control? What is wrong with that, since He is God, and we are but clay? I just don't understand why and it is the believer that does not want to give Him the glory not the lost person that complains.
---Lupe2618 on 9/27/05

Lupe, are you an attorney? Your question had me really confused (kinda like fine print in a car ad). :) Then you gave a 6 part answer. It's all in the Bible... How many times is predestinate (ed, tion, etc)written? Also foreknow (knew,knowledge, etc). God is eternal. God doesn't need a wrist watch or a calendar. Time is not the past or future. Humans just can't grasp that concept. He knows because He is that "I AM".
Always in the present tense. Praise Him!
---mike_fl on 9/3/05

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6. Bill Vukovich had amazing control of race cars. He was a magnificent race car driver. However, he was not sovereign. A part worth only a dime cost him his life. God, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about ten-cent cotter pins wrecking His plans. There are no maverick molecules running around loose. God is sovereign. God is God. If we reject divine sovereignty then we must embrace atheism. This is the problem everyone faces. We must hold tightly to God's sovereignty.
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05

5. totally free of God's sovereignty, then we have no guarantee that a single promise of God will ever be fulfilled. Perhaps that one maverick molecule will lay waste all the grand and glorious plans that God has made and promised to us. If a grain of sand in the kidney of Oliver Cromwell changed the course of English history, so our maverick molecule could change the course of all redemption history. Just maybe, that one molecule will be the thing that prevents Christ from returning.
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05

4. If God refused to permit something to happen and it happened anyway, then whatever caused it to happen would have more authority and power than God Himself. If there is any part of creation outside of God's sovereignty, then God is simply not sovereign. If God is not sovereign, then God is not God. That is why foreordaination is so critical to us as believers. It is a tenet for our faith. A tenet for theism. If there is one single molecule in this universe running around loose,
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05

3. Who, among Christians, would argue that God could not stop something in this world from happening? If God so desires, He has the power to stop the whole world. To say that God foreordains all that comes to pass is simply to say that God is sovereign over His entire creation. Really, if something could come to pass apart from His sovereign permission, then that which came to pass would frustrate His soverignty.
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05

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2. Tenet of Theism, what is that? Tenet is any principle doctrine etc. held as true by members of a group, (Christians) Theism, Belief in the existence of a god. (Jehovah). In order to believe in God we have to believe He is sovereign. Not believing that He is, makes us atheist. Everything that happens must at least happen by His permission. If He permits something, then He must decide to allow it. If He decides to allow something, then in a sense He is foreordaining it.
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05

That God in some sense foreordains whatever comes to pass is a necessary result of His sovereignty. That God foreordains whatever comes to pass is not an idea unique to Christianity, It is simply a tenet of theism-a necessary tenet of theism. If we believe in God been sovereign then we have to believe He foreordains. You see, it only declares that God is absolutely sovereign over His creation. God can foreordain things in different ways. But everything that happens must at least happen by His permission.
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05

God gave us free will whether to follow his way, or not. Both choices have consequences, consequences which have been ordered to happen: Obey God, then his order is blessing; but dis God, then his order is cursing. What we sow, we reap; what goes around, comes around; and what we give, is what we get. Please read Genesis 12:3; Psalm 37:23,24; Isaiah 59:7,8. And when a person turns back to God, then God will not bring the ordered evil upon him, but instead he will bring forgiveness and blessing.
---Eloy on 8/19/05

Lupe; No God did not "ordain" whatsoever comes to pass. To do so would make Him "complicit" in man's fall! God can and does choose not to know the outcome of a situation,giving it total "free will" Proof---gen 6.6 "God felt regret that He had created man...."
---1st_cliff on 8/18/05

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Oh, by the way, thank you for answering Pierr. I usually love your answers. Lets make it a great topic, we are hearing too much negative stuff lately. I waiting for your answer on casting demons, I want to hear what you have to say on those too. Oh also, I have been reading so much on Revelations and you have that almost to a verse. I will continue on it before I can answer to the one on Babylon. I was trying my best to get away from the church of Rome but I seem to get drawn back to it.
---lupe2618 on 8/18/05

Question 1: Did God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass?
Question 2: Is there anyone that does not believe this question to be true? "Thank you Pierr." OH, that is not on the question Pierr.
---lupe2618 on 8/18/05

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