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Tribulation Or Rapture First

What will first is it the tribulation or rapture?

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 ---Matabbeki_Mudenda on 8/23/05
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All SDA's, read every single one of the MOD's comments here.
lee, have you read this blog?
---A._Harris on 7/5/07

This is an excellent blog, but you will need to start with answer #1, to read about the rapture/tribulation. Then it moves up to worship on Saturdays.
Moderator, why don't you answer any of the questions, anymore. Your answers were informative. Discussions were civilized in 2005.
---Raine on 2/27/07

Moderator - Emcee or Ruben your comments on the calendar? I will get back with you on this?

Moderator - Thanks. My guess is one of you may have more accurate resources.
---ruben on 10/19/05

You may be interested to know that in the UK things are a bit different, and there is no question of compulsory Sunday observance. An employee can be compelled to work on any day that the emploer wishes. Earlier protection to allow Christians (or Jews) to not work on their holy day, have now been withdrawn.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/19/05

Can you please for the benefit of non-USA members, explain what the "blue laws" are?

Moderator - Blue Laws were mostly in the Southern USA in the pre 1980's and stated that on Sundays nobody could buy or sell any goods or services that were non-essentials.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/19/05

MOD cont.
for not worshipping accordin to gov. laws. Couldd it be tha I will loose my SS check or Medicare allowance for the same reason? Could very well happen! What if I am in business amd have to shut down and stay shut on Sunday too? Can you see how that would have an economic impact?
Also the time will come when acc. to the Bible, Sabbath keepers will not be ablw to buy or sell anything! Talk about economic impact! If you are not too upset with me, may be you will lend me a few bucks!

Moderator - As mentioned in my prior post, I never saw Saturday or Sunday worshipers economically damaged under the Blue Law which I lived under. Most people work Monday through Friday. Weekend is mostly retail and restaurant.
---Pierre on 10/19/05

You are absolutely right mod, most people would not be affected by blue laws or a national sunday law. That is because 'most people' follow the RCC's example by keeping Sunday Holy. For those that choose not to follow the beast power, they risk financial ruin through jail time for breaking the law. Keeping God's law will 'seal' his believers, those that keep the Faith and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

Moderator - Why would anyone even need to break the Blue Law? Just don't sell non-essential items on Sundays. Give me some examples of why anyone would need to break that type of law? I literally can't think of any. I never saw anyone economically hurt whether they celebrated Saturday or Sunday.
---casey on 10/19/05

I'm not just talking about the blue laws. Speaking of keeping Sunday, a certain website reads, "John Paul pointed out that it is not only a question of an "obligation," but also of a "human right" which was to be protected by adequate legislation." I'm talking about a potential national sunday law, which would impact all those that choose to keep God's Sabbath. Aren't financial impacts to that obvious?

Moderator - I still don't see the economic impact because I have already lived through those laws which made it illegal to buy or sell on Sunday. All people did was spend more on the other 6 days.
---casey on 10/19/05

Thanks Pierre, will do.
Also, in this blog we've talked about economic impact from a Sunday law. But it could even go further than impacting just Sabbath keepers. States still have blue laws, and YES, they can be enforced. Google "Town's Sunday construction ban could affect do-it-yourself work". Sunday worship is the mark of papal power to change God's law. Adhering to manmade laws that govern Sunday reverence will make outcasts of those who keep God's fourth commandment.

Moderator - I was raised under the Blue Laws and it didn't have any economic impact except for someone selling on Sunday non-essential goods which people would just buy a different day of the week. Please give me some "potential" examples of economic havoc by a Sunday worship law. I literally can't think of any.
---casey on 10/19/05

Thank you very much for your help in directing the MOD to the "sabbathtruths" resource. I went there and believe that it will help many truths seekers very much.
I think it would be well to repeat your recomendation under the blog: Which Day is the Sabbath to help more people in search of the truth. Thanks again!
---Pierre on 10/19/05

Mod: I think a lot of your questions are answered on a specific website dedicated to this topic, including if the calendar has ever been changed. Since I can't give a website address, please google 'sabbathtruth' (one word). Wealth of information, all Bible based. Hope that helps you and others with your research.

Moderator - Thanks.
---casey on 10/18/05

MOD: Although I am obviously not catholic, I can tell you from what I have read that YES the calender was changed I think two times but the weekly cycle was not changed nor affected.

Moderator - Emcee or Ruben your comments on the calendar?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

The Word clearly states that the Lord will NOT come for His Bride until we are without spot or blemish .Matthew 24 , you also note He says ''until the gospel is PREACHED to all the four corners of the earth' These are 2 things that still need to be fulfilled,Plus the Word also says at the 'last trump' the Church will be taken out .REMEMBER THE LOST AT ANYY COST GBY
---Pam_B on 10/18/05

How to know which day is which and be sure!
First of all note that the Bible talks about the days as 1st, 2nd, 3rd ....7th Later names were assigned:
SU MO TU SAT With the ordinal numbers of the days coupled with their names, NOBODY has ever expressed any difficulty to know which day is which or has ever suggested that SU was the 7th day, neither has the weekly cycle ever changed, even when the calendar

Moderator - My understanding is the the Roman Catholic Church changed some days around a few times our Saturday today is not the real Saturday. Can any Catholics out there answer whether this is true?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

MOD: You talk about me not answering your questions. I think I have answered your questions as quickly and as honestly as possible. I also indicated that I woud answer more questions after you spent a little time reflecting on the answers already given. I said that because your questions kept comig so fast, I had a hard time to keep up with you. I was also working on two blogs at the same time. I have had supper now and am ready for more. Please state your question(s) clearly. Thanks!

Moderator - Please take your time :)
---Pierre on 10/18/05

Alan, Jesus healed a man on the sabbath day. Mark 3:2-5 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life. or to kill?
---Ulrika on 10/18/05

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MOD: I will answer this Q about the Sabbath then I will give you a chance to reflect. Then I will answer more Q.
The Moral law is a reflection of God's character. It is good and valid for all times NOT LIMITED TO OT, not divided in 9+1! It is a standard for all mankind to know right from wrong. It contains the Sabbath commandment .ISA tells us that in the new earth, Sabbath will still be the holy day it is now, the 7th day of the week!

Moderator - By not answering my questions and staying fixed on your point, it isn't helping me to understand. I am not for or against the Sabbath, but am trying to purely understand. Do you have a Pastor available to you that can help to answer the questions?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

God has good sense and He knows that some services are necessar. So, in our case (SDA church) Hospitals (Dr. and nurses do only essential work. No surgeries are scheduled for that day. Some Drs. and Nurses give the income of the day to their church of charity. Everything is done with the clear understanding that God DID NOT FORBID DOING GOOD (healing) on Sabbath. He even made allowance in case your "ass" or donkey for Allan should fall into the pit!
---Pierre on 10/18/05

In my church we have mid-week prayer meeting on WED night. "Is that as 'good' as Sabbath worship?" The answer is no! Even though there is nothing wrong with it, it is not on the same level as Sabbath church service. Let's face it Sabbath is special because God sanctified it. He did not sanctify WED. Finally, the conflict will be between Masters, the day they id as holy day (not WED or FR) but SU vs Sabbath. That's it in a nutshell.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

Mod ... # 5 And who is to say which is the Sabbath anyway. We call the days by pagan names ... how do we know that what we call Sunday is exactly 7 X umpteen thousand days after the first day of Creation? You ask my opinion ... like yuu, I cannot agree with Pierre
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

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Mod ... # 4 No doubt the SDA's would say they should not work on the Saturday, others would say it is wrong to work on the Sunday. Rubbish to both!! And also the ambulance drivers need to work on the so-called holy days, and the mechanics that keep the ambulances in working order.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

Mod ... # 3 .. Now you know I am a widower? My wife was cared for in a Hospice for the last few days of her life ... from Friday to Monday. The whole family spent all the time in her room. None of us went to church, although we had pastors in each day. Now on the Saturday and Sunday, the nurses worked their socks off, messy work at times. Saturday or Sunday, which is the "officlal" God's day?

Moderator - Pierre, how do you respond to people that must work on Saturday IE a doctor or nurse? Will they go to hell or does God understand?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

Mod ... # 2 Now there are those parents and families who now regard themselves as being members of the church ... our local church and God's wider church. It is not for me to judge whether they have been "saved" yet, but I suspect some have and many are on the way. Some of them come also on Sunday, others do not ... but I do not think God cares a jot. Actually I just realise it is Thursday not Wednesday, but that does not matter either.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

Mod ... # 1 The thing about our particular Wednesday service is that it is for parents and children after school. They have a service with talks for children but with something in it for the adults too, then soem activities for the childre, and it is all follwoed by a meal in the church hall for the children whilst the parents have tea! I know there are some here who will say that the provision of the meal is defiling God's building, but I say the church is the people, not the building.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

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It is never 'wrong' to worship or serve the Lord. I have daily studies as I feel closest to Him when I do. But God didn't pick one-day-in-seven to set aside, he picked the Sabbath day, and told us to remember it. Must be important to Him. Mod: The Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. Saturday. Not a day made for the Jews, but a day made for all mankind.

Moderator - What is the definition of Sabbath?
---casey on 10/18/05

Tribulation or Rapture first? I'd like to think the rapture will be first, but no one knows, no one but God.
---Nellah on 10/18/05

Pierre ... You see I do not think that you have mmade your case that God requires us to "keep the Sabbath" on any particualr day of the week. We have a group in our church who meet on Wednesdays for their service of learning and worship. That is as valid before God as Saturday or Sunday.

Moderator - That is a question I have asked also. Is Wednesday worship wrong even if you worship on Saturday in your opinion?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

Mod: You say 'follow the Sabbath lawS'. There is just one 'law' for the sabbath, and that's found in the fourth commandment. The Pharisees created for themselves binding restrictions for keeping the Sabbath. You're not talking about those, are you? I find the Sabbath the best day of the week, and I look forward to that special time with God, in church and in nature. There are websites that give helps on how to keep the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Moderator - Please give your definition of the Sabbath. Thanks.
---casey on 10/18/05

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MOD. Please take time to answer my questions before asking more questions, Thanks! I want to make sure we are on the same page. When talking about honoring God's law, I am not talking about the 600 Jewish laws. I am talking about what is commonly known as the commandments which the Lord wrote in stone with his own finger. Now, do you think that through Him and motivated by love for Him you can keep the law or do you think it is impossible? Remember, answer me first then ask me more questions.

Moderator - The Ten Commandments are God's Moral or Spiritual Law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are mentioned in the New Testament stating we need to follow them. However, the Sabbath is not listed. How can we follow the Sabbath Law? Do you truely understand what that entails? It doesn't only mean worship Him on Saturday. Please let me know your definition of the Sabbath.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

MON: You can do good on any day not just on Sabbath, but based on every piece of evidence that God set aside the Sabbath as a seal between us and Him, DO YOU THINK IT IS PRUDENT FOR YOU OR I TO IGNORE HIS DIRECTIVES? Does He give us ANY hnt that worshiping Him is better than obeying Him? That not to attend church on His holy day is ok too, as long as you read the word at home? That it is ok to honor the false day of worship (SU) once you know it is the wrong day? Let me hear from you please!

Moderator - How can one follow the Sabbath Laws today since it is nearly impossible to follow the Laws today as outlined in the OT? I am being serious because even if I wanted to I don't know how it is possible.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

You say"When we do it does not matter?"
Now think over your statement in view of:
God setting aside the Sabbath, blessing it, sanctifying it, observing it, suggesting that we pray that our flight not be on a Sabbbath, also suggesting that it will be kept still on the new earth, telling us that if we love Him we will keep His commandments, all of them, that if we say that we love him but DO not honor his will we are LIARS!!! I would say WHEN matters a great deal.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

MOD: Forehead-Right hand cont.
Accepting the mark of the beast on one's forehead reminds us of the common practice among Oriental nations of colouring the forehead as a sign of devotion to some deity,true or false, as alluded to in REV 14:9.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

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So far, I am coming to the preliminary conclusion that the location part of these expressions is not really as important as the decision to accept the mark of the beast and thus make a pledge of fidelity and submission which "giving" the right hand means in biblical parlance. It also means taking an oath, when the right hand is lifted up.

Moderator - I have heard that also. However, I know with today's technology it really could happen in a literal sense. I happen to agree that the Pagal system will form the end time World Religion, however still trying to understand the importance of Saturday. As mentioned before, Christians tend to followship with God and each other daily not once a week.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

Pierre ... I have chosen my Master already.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

MOD cont:
On some Sabbaths I might just take a mature walk with the express purpose to admire God's creation. Then I usually find a peaceful place to just talk with the Lord praising Him for His grace, protection and provisions during the past week. I will also take the time to mention to Him a few people on my prayer list for His special attention.

Moderator - I usually do these things also, but not necessarily on a specific day of the week. Do you believe Christians can do so only on Saturday and please God?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

I believe that one aspect of worship is getting together with like believers in Church, to study the word together, hear a good sermon, listen to some uplifting songs and fellowship with others, sharing in each other's joys and difficulties. On Sabbath afternoon I usually reserve some time for "lay activities" which includes: resting, visiting the shut-in and bringing them the church bulletin or sermon tape or visiting the sick (at home or in the hospital).

Moderator - Why wouldn't Christians be doing these types of things everyday of the week? Is there anything that you do on Saturday that couldn't be done always?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

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(Moderator - Yes. I would guess your Catholic books name them as well as the councils attended?) What does your protestant books have for their names?

Moderator - The books I read list councils. However, I am sure the Catholic books would list the names you are asking about. Would you let us know?
---ruben on 10/18/05

MOD. I am still researching the "forehead/right hand queston." I invite you to do the same. Yes, I noticed too that some Sunday churches meet on Saturday but I honestly don't think that they are doing it in "honor of the 7th day Sabbath" I would have to check on that. Sabbath worship is more than open church doors. It is honoring the day He set aside, sanctified, observed and will continue to observe on New Earth. Who am I to argue with that?

Moderator - Most Christians I know worship God daily with reading His Word, prayer, maybe a weekly fast, worship. These types of Christians which I would include myself aren't focused on any one day including Saturday or Sunday. On Saturdays what else to you do that is different then what I listed above?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

Please note: Some momentous events are still future and all who will have lived up to the
light they have receved before these endtime events take place will receive their just reward. But when the time comes when what the Bible predicts as the final events occur, you and I and everybody alive will have to choose our master and our final outcome: eternal life or utter destruction.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

I really find it incredible that God would heap eternal punishment on those who have wholeheartedy accepted Him, just because they happen to worship on a mistaken day
Ypu arew right when you say: "The central issue in this time of trouble for God's faithful is TRUE or FALSE worship" When we do it is not important.
How do you cope with the date-line?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/18/05

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Sorry! My last entry should have been addressed to you not to Elder, but my answer stands.
---Pierre on 10/18/05

MotB cont.
will be passed.
REV 14: 7 promotes true worship of the Creator on the Sabbath and v. 9-11 discourage counterfit worship on Sunday, v. 12 calls us to keep the Sabbath as a sign of loyalty to Him.
ROM 6:16 It is more than a question of days, it is a matter of who is going to me our Master, who will get your loyalty.
MK 7:9 God's law vs Man's law!
Mark of the Beast Sunday worship
Seal of God Sabbath worship
The choice is yours. Time is running out!

Moderator - How is that on your forehead or right hand? Then Roman Catholic are heaven bound because most worship on Saturday? The Seeker Friendly chuches are moving services to Saturday because crowds then they are heaven bound? Some of the worse offenders of scriptures go to church on Saturday. Thoughts? What about those who go many times a week IE Wednesday and Saturday? Shouldn't Christians worship God everyday?
---Pierre on 10/18/05

DAN 3:1 Nebuchadnesser establishes a counterfit image with dimensions of 60 and 6.
DAN 3:3-4 The entire kingdom is summoned to accept this counterfit worship.
DAN 3:14 The central issue in this time of trouble for God's faithful is TRUE or FALSE worship.
REV 13:13-17 A counterfit image will be established again, a FALSE standard of truth will/is be/eing exhalted. The cenral issue:
OBEDIENCE TO GOD and TRUE vs false worship!
An economic boycott followed by a death decree TBC
---Pierre on 10/17/05

MotB cont.
EZEK 4:6 I have appointed thee one day for a year.
NUM:14:34 One day for a year (Gen 29:27)
DAN 7:25 The Papal Power which changed God's law reigned souverain for 1260 literal years.
In 538 A.D. the Pagan Roman empire granted the Pope of Rome civil and religious authority over the empire. Exactly 1260 years
later, in 1798 A.D. Berthier a French general on orders of Napoleon took the Pope captive.
REV 13:18 TBC
---Pierre on 10/17/05

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REV 13:5 The beast power speaks blasphemy.
LK 5;21 If any human being claims to have the power to forgive sins, he commits blasphemy.
JN 1o:33 The Bible defines blasphemy as man making himself equal to God. The Pope claims to be God on earth.
REV 13:5 The beast power reigns supreme for 42 months.
REV 12:6,14 The time, time and a half time equal 1260 days or 42 months. During that tme, God's people are in the wilderness of hiding. TBC
---Pierre on 10/17/05

MOD; Details of the Mark of the
REV 13: 1-2 A beast rises out of the sea like
a lion,bear,leopard and dragon.
DAN 7:17 A beast represents a king or kingdom-
a ruling power civil or religious.
REV 17:5 The sea represents people, nations or languages.
DAN 7:1-9 The lion, bear, leopard and dragon represent Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.
REV 13.2 The dragon or Pagan Rome gives this new power its authority. Papal Rome received
its authority from Pagan Rome
---Pierre on 10/17/05

Ruben get your feathers down ol' pal. I realize very well there will be PROTESTANTS in that group. Why there might even be some Baptist.
We were not speaking of who would be in the group but who would be the Great Harlot.
All I was saying is that the Bible does not point out any group such as the RCC as the one who promotes the False gospel. It could be but the Bible doesn't say that it is.
---Eler on 10/17/05

Pierre, Before I say another word to you I must say that I care for you because I sincerely remember what you did for me and what you were going to do with the books.
Although I couldn't use them I still remember the thought.
Reading through them gives me concern for your soul so I write to you like I do.
Cond #2-->
---Eler on 10/17/05

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Cond #2-->
Now, please know this now, I have never seen where the whole world will follow the Beast.
Quite to the contrary. The whole world will not, hence the statement in Matthew "He that endurth to the End shall be Saved."
Many will endure the torment and be killed by the Beast. Many will not take his mark and will be tortured and murdered.
They will stand for Christ and refuse to follow the Beast.
---Eler on 10/17/05

Elder: I said that the Bible states that "the whole world" will follow the beast! Find it in Daniel/Revelation. Yes, I believe that the Moslem will honor the beast power also. To what extent remains to be seen.
I try to answer all the questions as quickly as I can but sometimes when I get done with you and Eloy, I am out of steam! (due to my Parkinson).
---Pierre on 10/17/05

Pierre "the head will be Papal Rome allied with Apostate Protestantism" Where do you get this idea? Can you imagine Muslims subjecting themselves to the Pope? Or Hindhus?
Please provide the evidence. And yes why do you not answer the Moderators questions?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/17/05

Mod- Do the 4th century Bishops have names and do the early churches have names. who were the Bishops and who were the early churches?

Moderator - Yes. I would guess your Catholic books name them as well as the councils attended?
---ruben on 10/17/05

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Elder: I am not limiting myself to thr RCC as the opposition. The Bible says "the whole world wonders after the beast" so it is universal and will include all the people you mentioned but the head will be Papal Rome allied with Apostate Protestantism. MOD: Without greater detail for now, I see the mark as accepting Sunday worship in place of Sabbath worship. Finally the changes of the calender: INFREQUENT and NEVER AFFECTED THE WEEKLY CYCLE. People have always known which day is 1st and 7th!

Moderator - Please provide the greater detail of the Mark because I really want to understand what you are saying in this regards.
---Pierre on 10/17/05

Elder, I would be interested in your comments in the blog, " What Day Is the Sabbath" Thanks, Ulrika
---Ulrika on 10/17/05

Elder-(Have you ever thought that there will be the RCC, Islam, Mormons, Masons, Eastern Religions as New Age, Scientology and the like.) You FORGOT to add PROTESTANTS to that list!
---ruben on 10/17/05

Let me explain some of your doctrine that you push. You are now saying that if I don't believe that the RCC is the great whore of Revelation I won't make it before it is too late. Please do guide me. Show me where the Bible names ANY group as the Great Whore. What you and some others don't seem to understand is that many will join together to form this group.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/17/05

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Cond #2-->
Have you ever thought that there will be the RCC, Islam, Mormons, Masons, Eastern Religions as New Age, Scientology and the like. Your focus is only on one group.
If the RCC changed the day of worship and then changed the calendar then you should worship on Sunday because it used to be Saturday until they changed it or maybe it is Friday, could be Thursday. Whatta think? Maybe we should only worship on and at "Ruby Tuesdays."

Moderator - Pierre, it is a question I have also because Rome has changed the calender several times and I know I don't have a clue which day is the original anymore.
---Elder on 10/17/05

First, thanks to Casey for answering one of the questions.
Let me add that the Bible predicts a union of church and state where the government will issue laws on behalf of the church to enforce the churche's will. It also speaks of a power which will make an image to the first beast. This second power is prophetically id. as apostate protestantism which has stopped protesting but is "in bed" with Rome which it once loathed!

Moderator - I agree that there is a merging process of Protestants back into the Catholic church. Most Protestants just don't understand the Bible or Church history well enough to understand what is occuring. Please answer the question about the mark on the forehead or right hand.
---Pierre on 10/17/05

Hi(The Jewish writers, Apostles and Paul put most of the Bible together. A council agree on the canonised Books of the Bible of which the Catholic Church had around 1% representation.) If you do not mind, where does it say Apostles and or Paul put the bible together, nowhere in scriptures does it say this books wriitern by Paul, Mark, luke, Mat etc..etc. belong together. what year did the council decide on what books belong in scriptures....Thanks

Moderator - 4th century bishops from all over the Empire brought together their manuscripts from various churches of which very few where Roman Catholic. The Apostles and Paul wrote most of the New Testament not any church. The churches just canonised their Books.
---ruben on 10/17/05

Ruben ... it was reported recenlty that the RCC had declared that certain parts of the Bible should not be regarded as being strictly historically accurate. Mentioned as an example was the 6 X 24 hour day Creation
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/17/05

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Ruben - sorry, but I can't give a link. But please google "Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible". Clearly, the RCC wants Christians to rely on their teachings for truth, no longer even trusting the Bible. In my opinion, we have reached a time that the Bible is becoming irrelevant in favor of feel-good religion so long as nobody gets their feelings hurt. The Bible is inspired word, and IS TRUTH, despite RCC teachings.
---casey on 10/17/05

I'm interested in the statement that the anti-Christ will attempt to unite all the worlds churches. Did the wrtiter of Rev realise that the Christian church would split? I suggest not, but amd ready to be corrected. Surely the antiChrist will attempt to unite all the worlds religions? That is something diffferent entirely.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/17/05

Casey-( Now the catholic church states that even the Bible isn't true? Excuse me, when and where are you getting this false information? It was the CHURCH that put the BIBLE together, why would they say it isn't true now!

Moderator - Ruben, I agree with you that the Catholic Church believes first in tradition and second in the Bible. However, the Catholic Church didn't put the Bible together. The Jewish writers, Apostles and Paul put most of the Bible together. A council agree on the canonised Books of the Bible of which the Catholic Church had around 1% representation.
---ruben on 10/17/05

MOD: How Sunday enforcement has and will again affect Sabbatheepers economically.
To help you better understand let me take you back to the 1st Sunday law enforced in America, Va in 1610:
"Every man and woman shall repair in the morning to the divine service and sermons preach upon the Sabbath days (actually SUN), and in the afternoon to divine service and catechizme, UPON PAIN FOR THE FIRST FAULT TO LOOSE THEIR PROVISION AND ALLOWANCE FOR THE WHOLE WEEK FOLLOWING, FOR THE SECOND TO LOOSE TBC

Moderator - I don't understand the English in the above paragraph. In your own words, what is it saying?
---Pierre on 10/17/05

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Q: How would Sunday worship enforcement hurt anyone's economics? A: Because I'd be in jail for keeping God's moral law. When civil law conflicts with God's moral law, I have a responsiblity to disobey civil law. THAT WILL hurt me financially. The RCC is seeking unification of world religions. Sabbath keepers CANNOT unify with a church keeping man's law. When we don't succumb, we'll be labeled as a cult, terrorists, or as "Threats to national security".

Moderator - If Catholics are the ones to enforce this through a political leader , I don't understand because Catholics have Mass on Saturday and Sunday. They leave both doors open. It's mostly Christians that worship on Sunday.
---casey on 10/17/05

As for not buying and not selling:
This is simply a commentary on REV 13:15-17. as well as REV 12:17 In a desperate effort to force each person to make a choice between the true Sabbath and false sabbath (SUN) the beast will draft civil laws to enforce its will VERY SOON, Sunday laws like the blue laws, putting 7th Day Sabbath keepers under economic duress and threatening them even with loss of life BUT FINALLY, IN THE END, THE FAITHFUL WILL KNOW VICTORY! (REV 15:2) I hope that helps!

Moderator - How would Sunday worship enforcement hurt anyone's economics? Hopefully, few of us are working on Sunday anyway. You state VERY SOON - this there something happening now that is different?
---Pierre on 10/17/05

NB:"The observance of Sunday by the Protestants
is an hommage they pay, in spite of themselves,
to the authority of the Catholic church." Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestanisme Today, (1868) p 213. TBC
---Pierre on 10/17/05

MOD cont.
The true Sabbath being a sign of loyalty to the true God, it is but natural (it follows) that the false sabbath should be regarded as the MARK of allegiance to the apostate church. Such is the case! TBC
---Pierre on 10/17/05

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MOD cont.
The Protestants, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, (Ulrika), has no warrant for observing Sunday...Sunday as the day of rest to honor our Lord's resurrection dates to Apostolic times and was established among other reasons to MARK off the Jews from the Christians. St. Justin the Martyr, speaks of it in his Apologies. The Catholic Universe Buletin, Aug. 14, 1942 p.4 TBC
---Pierre on 10/17/05

Elder: Like Casey I wonder when you will get it! Hopefully before it is too late. I don't mind your disagreeing with me, just don't call me names.

Note: The RCC changed the observation of the Sabbath to Sunday (supposedly) by right of the divine, infallable authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. TBC

Moderator - I know the Catholic Church changed the day as well as the calendar, but how is that the Mark Of The Beast on the forhead or right hand?
---Pierre on 10/17/05

first the rapture:where GOD takes his own, then the Great Tribulation where the left behind experience well.. great tribulations, only 1/4 of the left behind will survive the great tribulation and see the Glorious Appearing of Christ,and that's only the, saved ones read revelation and the left behind series..
---angie on 10/17/05

Casey, I never said the RCC was not part of the Harlot but while everyone is looking at them the real culprit is at work. Islam has sworn to murder anyone not of their faith during a Jihad. The RCC has not done that. Islam is probably part of the Harlot also. Again we can not pin point them as being the Harlot. There is no way anyone can pull the RCC or any other group out of the Revelation and say for sure that the book pin points that group.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/17/05

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Cond #2-->
We are told what the Harlot does not who it is.
I remember when everyone was saying Kissinger was the Anti-Christ also. The Anti-Christ has not yet been revealed so how can people make those statements unless they are confused?
---Elder on 10/17/05

Pierre, I never said that Christians would not go through trials and tribulations. They go through them everyday.
They will not go through the Great Tribulation. Christians will be removed. Your statement about the RCC is not true so what do you call it.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/17/05

Cond #2-->
By the way, I have read and studied enough to know the books title is not Revelations but Revelation.
There is only ONE revelation in that book. In your vast studies and knowledge of the material you sent me do you know what that revelation is? Next, the people of God will not have the number 666 on them. Under your misconception why does God take the Saints out after the Tribulation just to bring them back to start the Millennial reign?
---Elder on 10/17/05

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