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Do You Understand The King James

Many people use the King James Bible, but do they know the grammar of that time, or the meaning they put into each word in 1611?

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 ---James on 9/9/05
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, elder/herb, i must ask: what made you think i ever said that people in the 1800's could not be saved? i never said that, nor did i imply it. i may not like the KJV, but it does tell people how to be saved, as all Bibles do.
---steve on 9/3/07

lee claims the KJB is so hard to read--it's at a 5th grade reading level. that sure is hard. the perversions get their greek from 2 english clowns named wescott and hort. these were catholic sympathizers who were into necromancy (the ghostly guild) --- aint this nice
---r.w. on 7/26/06

What people claim to be errors in non-KJV are really not errors but simply a translation from much older and more exacting manuscripts of the Bible.

yes, I can understnad the KJV as I have read the Bible in other versions as well. One man once told me he used the Living Bible in order to understand the KJV. I would advise others to do the same.
---lee on 5/21/06

I understand the King James very easily in fact prefers it to other it well, and you will find some texts in new versions meant differently to the old king careful with new versions, full of error...missing texts in NIV, NWT, etc
---jana on 5/21/06

, i am sure the people who print the King James will never update it until english changes so much that the KJV begins to look like heirogliphics.
---steve on 11/22/05

The KJ4 may indeed be an improvement in grammar over the King James Version, but if they fail to market it properly, it will not be too prevalent.

I believe that you will still see such version unacceptable to the KJV Onlyists as they believe that the KJV was the only Bible given to the English speaking people.

The NKJV (sometimes called the 5th revision of the KJV) is based upon the same basic manuscripts as the old KJV, but that was rejected by that group.
---lee on 11/22/05

, i long for the day when they print the KJ4 Bible, and actually modernize the words. we are no longer living in the seventeenth century.
---steve on 11/21/05

, read psalm 38 in "the message". that will show why i don't like it.
---steve on 11/16/05

, i read the "message", and i still prefer the New Living Translation.
---steve on 11/7/05

Steve-My son just bought a new Bible for someone in prison. It was The Message-Remix. It is awesome! I'm going to get one for myself. It's funny that the longer I'm in the Lord that the Bible's I want to read are simpler and simpler.
---Patti on 11/5/05

Steve - the "word on the street" has the following description - is "A fresh, urban paraphrase of the Bible for our times, Experience the Bible as performance art Straight from the streets of the UK For those whove never read the Bible, and for those whove read it too much.
You can get it on Amazon if you wish.
---lee on 11/5/05

, i recently heard about a bible known as "the word on the street". can anyone tell me what this version is, or where i can find it?
---steve on 11/2/05

My wife has a nephew who is a journalist. When I offered him a bible, he selected a KJV because of his love for Shakespeare. Some people simply like the style and language of the KJV and there is nothing wrong with that howbeit, it takes more education to really understand parts of the King James as there are translation errors and words that are no longer in vogue.
---lee on 10/22/05

Well, it looks as if "the triplets" have gone missing!
---NVBarbara on 10/18/05

That was sweet of you Madison, and yes, thank you for the reminder to always put Christ first! I know Elder does, and I know you do by your blogs.May we all remember that!
I've enjoyed getting to know you on our "What's Up" blog.
---NVBarbara on 10/14/05

That was sweet of you Madison, and yes, thank you for the reminder to always put Christ first! I know Elder does, and I know you do by your blogs.May we all remember that!
I've enjoyed getting to know you on our "What's Up" blog.
---NVBarbara on 10/13/05

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Lastly, Steve, if we, as the "Forum Family" (as I call us) didn't care for and love you we would blow you off and never respond to you at all.
We would allow you to go on and never try to help you in your quest for the Lord.
We care therefore we speak.
We will not allow you to play in the traffic while you are here.
---Elder on 10/13/05

Barbara, you are so encouraging to me. I thank you for your kind thoughts and trust.
I need people like you and your fine husband praying for me.
---Elder on 10/13/05

Ulrika, I cannot explain it but in a lot of the post I sense the heart of the writer through the Spirit of God. This causes me to answer like I do.
I have sensed your desire to learn, not only learn but to learn the TRUTH.
Your heart and desires are pure.
You don't need to apologize to me but I thank you for willing to do so because you thought you may have to.
That is the carefulness we all need to learn.
Thanks for sharing it with us all.
---Elder on 10/13/05

Madison, you are certainly welcome to post anything about me you want. I have never felt you ever tried to hurt me or anyone. Quite to the contrary. As I have said in the past, if I have any "wounded" I would send them right to you.
The things we went "toe to toe" about caused us both to think and learn.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/13/05

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Cond #2-->
As I have said in the past, in my Army, I'd have Herb shooting at the enemy and you taking care of the hurt. They will get what they need from you.
So be fore warned ... if we ever go toe to toe again I'm gonna kiss you right on the lips...... (Ah ... with Jeraldleen's and Barbara's permission.)
You are a fine caring person and it is an honor for me to deal with you. The bad times caused to good times.
Ain't God great!!!
---Elder on 10/13/05

Steve you need to read the comments in the three replies I made on 10/10/05 in this blog.
I have never heard Bruce slander or call anyone names. He spoke of Satanic writings. He has a right to his opinions just like you do. The other examples you used do also.
The difference is they never called the readers Satanic or other names.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/13/05

Cond #2-->
You do remain consistent. That is the problem. To make your "point" you use slanderous words directed toward people.
You have done me the same way even calling me the enemy.
I will tell you again, to be successful here you need to care for the people you deal with even though you may think that you will never see them.
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 10/13/05

Cond #3--->
The reason you have not understood my reply to your 6 examples is that you have been too busy "defending" yourself and bringing charges.
---Elder on 10/13/05

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Elder is always kind and friendly. However, he is also a minister of God and when he sees something wrong, it is his responsibility to correct or help in a stern way to turn someone from a wrong path. I admire him and respect the fact that he has a difficult ministry to carry out.
---NVBarbara on 10/13/05

Steve: Elder and I have gone head to head on a number of issues, but, I believe, we have never attacked one another, nor put the other person down for any reason. I have always been able to see Elder's wisdom and heart for Jesus in the matters he and I disagree on. He and I have agreed to disagree on a number of issues, putting Christ first in everything we do. (Elder, I hope you do not mind me sharing this.)
---Madison on 10/13/05

Elder, In another I did not see the differences you were explaining (I still don't), but I was rude. I apologize.
Steve, apologizing sincerely would be humbling, because you would be saying you're wrong. There is a saying, sometimes right is just as wrong as wrong is. That probably is because of the attitude we have.
---Ulrika on 10/13/05

, i hate to bring this up, elder, but i can't find the place where you specifically commented on those six items i found.
---steve on 10/13/05

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, elder, there are times when you sound friendly, and other times when you sound angry. i know we all tend to not be aware of our own faults, but i believe i have been reasonably consistent in who i am.
---steve on 10/13/05

Steve,Curt,James,whoever...It may come as some surprise to you, but frankly I haven't seen many people agree with you, in any of your personas. Why you choose a humble Godly man like Elder to try some type of superiority over is a puzzle to me.Perhaps you should show some of that humility you speak of, as Elder does.
BTW,just like on an e-mail, don't you think that CN can see an ISP# when you write and know all the names eminate from the same computer?
---NVBarbara on 10/12/05

Steve if you posted like this (as you did to the virgin question); ", you were the victim of a terrible crime. i hope the guy who did it stays in prison as long as possible. please don't feel bad about this in any way, you are the innocent one here."
---steve on 10/12/05 (your exact post)
You would never have a problem with anyone.
You might even get people "on your side."
You posted truth and compassion plus encouragement.
---Elder on 10/12/05

Steve, I notice that you always put a lot of afterthought in what you have said. It is nothing more than putting Chocolate Icing on a brick and calling it a cake.
The thing you have to do to "get along" with me is first speak the truth and then don't condemn people.
You can look at an attitude as stupid but you cannot look at a person that way.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/12/05

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Cond #2-->
You try to get people to side up and that is wrong, just like you did about your superior/true humility statement.
You have to realize that people know me and they know you.
Everything I have said to you is not for my betterment.
Your fight is not with me. It is God you have to please and you cannot do it with statements like you make.
---Elder on 10/12/05

, in life, i have noticed that those who feel they are superior to another will usually get angry at those who try to correct them. true humility does not get angry.
---steve on 10/12/05

, elder, i used the word "enemy" to describe how you seem to view those who take my side. i wasn't referring to you as an enemy. i am trying my best to get along with you.
---steve on 10/12/05

First, I have allot of respect for Elder's knowledge of scripture and the meaning there of. We all could learn allot from him.

Second, I don't see any simularity between Elder and anyone.

Third, Steve, you do say hurtful things, that's why I wish you would get Christian counseling. Then maybe you could learn to place your anger on what is really bothering you, and stop stirring up trouble.

Fourth, Even though the KJV is old English, it is still relevant.
---Ulrika on 10/12/05

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I reference the original question; "Many people use the King James Bible, but do they know the grammar of that time, or the meaning they put into each word in 1611?"
We must remember it is the Holy Spirit that opens ones eyes to what God's Word says. No matter how well one knows grammar, if the Spirit of God is not opening the eyes of a person they cannot understand the scriptures, no matter what translation is used or what language it is in.
---Robert on 10/12/05

M.P. thanks for the complement. I am just a Pastor from the State of Virginia, Herb is a Pastor from West Virginia.
I have nothing to do with the content posted or not on CN.
I do like to expose the things that will drag people down and cause strife and confusion. I have been here since 2000. I have seen people that cause trouble come and go.
CN has given us all a great liberty here. We need to realize it. None of us has a "right" to post here.

Moderator - Since the moderators are down here in Texas, let's win them all to the Lord for every state in between :)
---Elder on 10/12/05

Thanks moderator. One of you (moderators) and Elder obviously have very similar opinions and styles of wording what you wish to say. I thought I spotted many striking similarities.
---M.P. on 10/12/05

I wasn't sure if I should say this but now that others are stating who they think has another identity I feel that I can. I agree that Steve/Curt/James could well be one person. But I've also thought for some time that one of the moderators is also a regular contributor and I think his name is Elder. If this doesn't get posted I'll be 100% convinced I'm correct. If it does get posted and is denied I'll accept that as on honest answer because I trust no-one here tells lies.

Moderator - No Elder isn't a moderator.
---M.P. on 10/12/05

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Steve you betray yourself.
You continue to make false statements. If you do that on purpose do you realize what tag you will have to wear?
Anyone that reads us can tell in a moment that Herb and I are not the same but I thank you for your kind comment.
Now, as your style continues, you call me the enemy. I am also proud to be classified as your enemy. We are also recognized by the enemies we have.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/12/05

Cond #2-->
Your continued "smoke and mirror" style has betrayed you again. I DID comment on your 6 "examples." It is plain for anyone to see except you.
What do you think Alan responded to?
People remember your "Curt" personality and your attitude towards marriage and such subjects.
Too many of us know your game plan Steve/Curt/James.
---Elder on 10/12/05

, alan, i have figured out that a quick way for someone to stop anyone from agreeing with an "enemy" is to accuse those who agree as being the same person. sorry to hear it happened to you as well.
---steve on 10/11/05

, elder, i almost forgot to ask you, ... you still haven't commented on the things i mentioned, the things you insisted were not there. i hope that you would not be in agreement with those things.
---steve on 10/11/05

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, as for the way i speak, i know i tend to say whatever is on my mind, without first thinking of how it might anger others. i am working on trying to think before i type, and i'm sorry if i offended anyone.
---steve on 10/11/05

, elder, thank you for contributing. i really was looking forward to hearing your point of view even if we disagree. i did not respond to the multiple name idea because i just don't see any relevance, just as there's no point in your blogs being similar to "rev.herb's".
---steve on 10/11/05

Just to clarify. You do have to be careful as to what translations you use b/c there are those that are not as accurate and will led to confusion. Also be careful of paraphrases. I am very wary about those becase they are interprated and not translated and can lead to personal opinions being portrayed.
---Kaleo on 10/11/05

KJV is a translation. It is not perfect. Neither is the NIV, NAS, NLT. is that to say that we are not reading the perfect word of God when we read the KJV, NIV, NAS, NLT, or the others. Of course not.

unless we all learn to read Greek and Hebrew then we won't be reading the original text. the best way to read the bible is to get a parrell bible with several different translations side by side, concordances, and a computer program that looks up the original Greek or Hebrew translations.
---Kaleo on 10/11/05

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Elder #B I must say that afterwards, when it became apparent that there was something dodgy about her, I felt embarrassed because I had supported some of what she said, and certainly her right to say it.

I think it important that we do not use multiple identities to try and amplify the apparent support for our own point of view.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/11/05

Elder #A ... I also recall that on one occasion back then that you accused me of being the same person as a pro-Democrat contributor. I was not. Her name began with a T?

Strangely as soon as the election was over, her contributions ceased altogether. It sometimes wonder why she was so involved in CN up to that point and then silent.

Perhaps she was the alter-persona of another contributor, but it certainly was not me.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/11/05

Elder ... I think that Steve and James are probably the same person, and were previously Curt. The fact they do not answer your challenge on this point tends to support the suspision.

However the modewrnists are not the only ones to use this ploy.

I remember in a previous KJV v NIV debate (in the old pre-blog Forum days)there were two KJVists (one was a James........d) who clearly were one.

How sad when this contrivance is used, by either side in a discussion.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/11/05

Elder ... Your squabble with Curt is entertaining, and I think he doth protest too much.
You seemed to think that Steve/James said the KJVist slandered the modernists. But that's not what he said, he said the KJVists slandered the modern versions
And I think the various quotations he gave DO amount to slander against the new versions of the Bible. They do contain offensive language, such as the modernists do not use against the KJV.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/11/05

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lee, you are correct in you statement but this issue is about people being called nasty names because they read what they read as Steve did.
I can condemn any paraphrase, version or book I want but that doesn't allow me to condemn the person.
As some may have noticed I have rebuked Steve many times but have never called him stupid or crazy for anything he has done.
My rebuke is for his spiritual growth (though he may not realize that) but calling condemning names could never be uplifting.
---Elder on 10/11/05

Curt must have left the building with Elvis also.........
---Elder on 10/11/05

I would have to somewhat agree with Elder about some of the language used in the Living Bible. But that is a paraphase, not a translation from the original languages. The phase 'son of a B....' is used when King Saul scorned his son Jonathan after the latter stuck up for his friend David (1 Sam. 20:30). Howbeit, if Elder should realize the Living Bible is not typical of other versions. If he were to read say, the English Standard Version, he may be satisfied with the better choice of words.
---lee1538 on 10/10/05

James/Steve, There is a lot going on right now and I can't/won't focus ALL my attention on you (Steve.)
I and others know that James and Steve are the same person.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/10/05

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Cond #2-->
There are other people who want to hear and be ministered to without trying to cause confusion. But, much to your dismay I am back now. First I ain't very good at hiding. Going toe to toe is another matter. Since James and Steve (James = Steve's other personality) have teamed up maybe they will go back and read some of the things he said about the PEOPLE who read the KJV. Or would that be asking too much of them?
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 10/10/05

Cond #3--->
When a version uses the phrase "SON of a B----" I call that a gutter version not fit to read. You will notice (or maybe you won't if it fits your purpose) that I and others did not slander the readers of that gutter version.
Steve likes to cause trouble and stir strife. His time is limited here. Don't fall into his trap. Of course Steve is "working on being more tolerant." So is Osama.
The Blood of Christ would change you if you would allow it Steve.
---Elder on 10/10/05

I doest notest understandeth it.
---Patti on 10/10/05

, thank you all, and elder, i still await your opinions.
---steve on 10/10/05

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hey steve, i looked up those comments you listed. wow. no wonder elder doesn't want to say anything about those. anyone else want to explain all that?
---James on 10/7/05

[Pt.4]If churches which say KJVOnly really care about having people read the Bible, I think they should educate themselves enough to become real Hebrew/Greek _and_ contemporary English scholars to do a new translation; just as we read in the real preface to the KJV that they felt more translations would eventually follow theirs as well.
---Daniel on 10/7/05

[Pt.3]...passages, but it and preceding PARAPHRASEd bibles put Christians on a slippery slope leading many into confusion about what God really tells us! The ASV and now NASB are quite literal; the ESV appears to be good literary translation; as was the KJV in its time. *If* you use NIV, or especially any other NON-literal bible, you MUST realize there are only men's interpretations in many passages which need to be checked further! [CONT.]
---Daniel on 10/7/05

[Pt.2]Of course, translations must include some variability, "so that we can debate whether this or that English word best captures the meaning of the original. But there remains a decisive difference between essentially literal translations that attempt to convey the exact meaning of the original words and other translations that do not feel obliged to reproduce the precise wording of the original."--Leland Ryken, Word of God in English,p.32. The NIV has some nicely translated,... [CONT.]
---Daniel on 10/7/05

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[Pt.1]I want to make sure my previous comments don't lead someone to what's NOT really Scripture! Some bibles use 'dynamic equivalency methods' meaning you're really getting _interpretation_ NOT _translation_ of God's words: "The Bible deserves the same respect for the words of the human
authors and the divine Author that ordinary literature does. If we do not feel free to change the words of literary authors, we should not change the words of the biblical writers." [CONT.]
---Daniel on 10/7/05

What often frosts the advocates of the King James Onlyists is the fact that all the studies done indicate that people that use a modern version of the Bible understand the Word of God more completely than those who read only the King James. For the KJV advocates, they are a dying breed going the same way of the horse and buggy with the advent of the automibile. We should not waste our time debating with them.
---lee on 10/4/05

I use the KJV. I understand quite a bit of it, because I am use to it.
---Ulrika on 10/3/05

, elder, there you have six examples that you don't seem to find anything wrong with. i really would like to know why those six are okay but what i have said is not.
---steve on 10/3/05

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, and under which Bible is best, there was "most versions are demonic" (bruce 9-14) and under the parallel blog, "re-writing scripture" (NVbarb, 9-16) and "paraphrased manuscripts" (sun 9-15).
---steve on 10/3/05

, elder, i guess you saw "those other translations of satan" (geraa, 9-22) and "homosexuals too part in writing the NIV" (rev herb, 9-10), and "spiritual Bible where others are not" (rev herb, 9-9).
---steve on 10/3/05

Steve, I read all of the post. I saw people make the argument of why newer versions were not "best."
I did not see anyone make the "snide" remarks, like you did, about the users of the KJV.
Show me the ones you have in mind and I will comment on them also.
---Elder on 10/2/05

, elder, i am working on being more tolerant. but i would ask what do you think of the comments some have made against the non-KJV Bibles? i can't see how these comments escaped your attention.
---steve on 10/1/05

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Steve, if I repeat what you say and that makes you look "less than tolerant" that is out of my control.
I have asked you questions about what you have said. Does or should that create a problem?
I don't have to make you look bad and I am not the one who does.
---Elder on 9/30/05

, Elder, if i was less than tolerant, i am sorry. but please don't try to make it sound like my blogs were the only intolerant ones. i saw several that were very hurtful to those who like newer translations.
---steve on 9/28/05

Steve I never said that you said people in the 1800 couldn't be Saved. I just asked a question.
You said, "i may not like the KJV..."
That is fine if you don't like it that is your or anyone's choice. You did make some nasty remarks about those who said they did like the KJV. I don't like the curse words in the Living Bible. My choice, some may accept them. I don't have to. I don't think anyone is surprised that you don't like the KJV.
---Elder on 9/25/05

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