I know for a fact that joel and his wife do not receive any salary what so sever from their church. they make money from marketing the christian materials they create. if they did receive a salary the amount would be none of your concern
---Dan on 8/26/09|
In 1Cor, Paul obviously baptized Crispus and Gaius, because he states that he did. This passage is Paul's rebuke of the members because of their putting Paul above Christ (not repudiation of baptism, itself.)
All the verses you list can be supportive of the idea that only the Holy Spirit is requied. However, this verse states otherwise:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Many people try to equate water, above, as somehow meaning 'born of amniotic water'. This is not supported in the translation of the word, water. (cont.)
---BruceB on 3/8/09|
As you pointed out Ac 10:47-48, we read:
As 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
People try to ascribe the idea these were Jews. They were not. They were Gentiles, as this is the account when Peter was given the trance wherein he was commanded to eat of the "unclean" foods. So, the idea that water baptism somehow is confined to Jews is not supported.
All I can tell you is what Jesus said, in John 3. If this only applied to Jews, then Peter would not have commanded the Gentiles be baptized.
---BruceB on 3/8/09|
Bruce B, regarding water baptism, please examine the following scriptures. Is there a difference and has there been a progressive change concerning water baptism?
Acts 1:5 (two Baptisms Water and Spirit).
Acts 2:38 (Water Baptism then receive the Spirit).
Acts 10:47-48 (receive the Spirit then Water Baptism).
Ephesians 4:5 (One (Spirit) Baptism).
1 Corinthans 1:13-17 (No Water Baptism).
After carefully examining these scripture, I would love to hear you thoughts and comments.
---Rob on 2/28/09|
I went through that same mindset for 15 years -- water baptism being unnecessary. In fact, in the beginning of it, I had Satan tell me (in the guise of God, mind you) that I was baptized in the Spirit - you know the verses - which I had been, and that it was all I needed.
15 years later, I found the truth written in that Book, by the grace of God. Had He not been keeping me from destruction (and teaching me one hellish hard-fought lesson), I'd still be unsaved. Amen.
Repray it, brother. It certainly can't hurt to beg God for the answer, which is exactly what I did. And He gave it to me -- in the Book. Peace in our Lord, Jesus.
---BruceB on 2/26/09|
Bruce B, I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior at the tender age of thirteen. I am now in my fifties.
It has been a journey with many ups and downs along with many mountains and valleys.
I agree with most of what you have writtten in your previous post.
In the past, I followed the teaching of the need for repentance, which is still true, but after doing much study on dispensation, and Baptism, I am currently at the point where I believe water baptism in no longer a requirement
---Rob on 2/21/09|
I watch some different shows on most of the channels: GODTV, TBN, TCC, NFB, DSTR, EWTN... et al. 10% of what I see is at best slighty on the Christian side of the fence. The other 90% are something quite different. Of course, my views of Jesus and His Word are very much different than 99% of the "Christian" world.
The main reason I spend any time viewing them is to ascertain what the devil is up to. Forewarned is forearmed.
My scriptural basis for "judgement" is simple: if they do not preach the gospel (repent and be baptized, in the name of Jesus, for the remission of sins and for receipt of the Holy Ghost), I know they are not Christian evangelists.
---BruceB on 2/21/09|
Bruce B, In the past I often wondered if Joel Olsteen, along with the others of The Word of Faith Movement are Christians.
I have heard to many of them claim they are God, or a person can only go to God through them.
Joel Olsteen claims the have the largest church in America, but it does not use the name Christian Church.
Also many of these people I see on the Daystar Television Network. They also do not use the name Christian, but instead say they are the fastest growing "FAITH BASED" Television Network. They claim to be spreading the Gospel around, but the question is what Gospel, Galatians 1:6-10. I have never heard them share the GOSPEL of CHRIST.
---Rob on 2/20/09|
Seems the moderators have purged a number of my comments.
This passage got clipped out, on the first pass. Maybe it will make it this time?
Ac 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
They already had the Holy Spirit. Why would Peter command baptism?
---BruceB on 2/19/09|
Just in case anyone wonders: I am not a "Baptist." I am not an Episcopal, Methodist, Pentecostal, Catholic, SDA, or any other denomination. I am not a Universalist or an Interfaither: nor am I of any other One World Religious sect or cult.
I am nothing more than a sinner who has been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, through my repentance and baptism (in the name of Jesus, The Christ of God) for the remission of my sins. The Holy Spirit allows me to die daily: and thankfully, Jesus has protected me from the scourge of religion since I was a very young boy. Amen.
I can't save anyone: nor can I convert them. That unique power is safely retained in God's Holy Hands, right where it belongs.
---BruceB on 2/19/09|
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit we are baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, that the cross of Christ should not be made void. Galatians 3:26,27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Galatians 5:24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
---Bob on 2/19/09|
alan8566 of UK,
From Billy's own website: "If baptism were a requirement for salvation, we would certainly say that."
Ac 2:7 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:...
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Maybe Peter knew something Billy didn't: ya think?
---BruceB on 2/19/09|
Olsteen obviously is not Christian.
Ac 11:16 - this is Peter recounting his previous occurrence (Ac 10:10 and following) regarding Gentiles, by way of the trance wherein he was commanded to eat, by God.
It is clear in the actual event that they were baptized in water...
Ac 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
The sequence may change: the components don't.
As for Paul, he was upset at being glorified by some. His statement is a rebuke, not a doctrinal statement. Read Ac 19:1-6
It's easy to pluck words. However, words need context.
---BruceB on 2/19/09|
Billy Graham did not say "No dunkin"
He wanted to draw people to Christ, and for them to loove them with thir hearts.
Then he sent them back to their own churches, and to the particular (and reltively unimportant) practices of that church, where their new found faith woukld be nurtured.
So they went back to dunkin' churches, and to non dunkin' churches.
Billy Graham did not care about denominations, just about Jesus and people
---alan8566_of_UK on 2/19/09|
Bruce B, while Joel Olsteen was being interviewed by Larry King, Joel Olsteen several times stated that Christ is not the only way to God. Is what Joel Olsteen said truth, or is it in direct contradiction of what Christ Himself said in John 14:6?
Concerning Billy Graham never once stated that a person must be baptized, No dunkin', Could Billy Graham be going by what Christ Himself said in Acts 11:16-18, and what the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17?
---Rob on 2/19/09|
Why would you care what his salary might be?
I ain't got a clue and I don't care. If a preacher is telling the truth, it's likely few will listen. How can I say that?
Lu 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends, and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my names sake.
You know of anyone hating Olsteen? For that matter, you ever heard of anyone hating Billy Graham? Graham never once stated that you must be baptized (in the name of Jesus) along with repentance in order to receive the Holy Ghost. No wonder people liked him. No dunkin'.
The ONLY proof of a preacher's worth is God's Word! His salary is meaningless.
---BruceB on 2/18/09|
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JUDGE NOT OUR YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY THE SAME STANDARD AS YOU JUDGE. REMEMBER GOD GIVES AND HE TAKES AWAY. LET GOD WORRY ABOUT PASTORS PAY. HE KNOW ALL.
---BRUCE_THOMPSON on 2/18/09|
I have no problem with a Pastor receiving a modest or moderate salary.
But their are too many who claim to be Christians, and claim to be sharing the Gospel of Christ, but they are not.
They are only WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, and are giving Christianity a bad name.
They claim to be darwing people to Christ, but in reality, they are drawing people away from Christ and unto themselves.
---Rob on 2/18/09|
Any pastor, priest, or minister that accepts money in payment for preaching the word of God, regardless of the size of his church is not a servant of God. They have built up churches unto themselves, to profit off the blood of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 5: 2: "Feed the flock of God that is amongst you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly, not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind." Many profess to follow the bible, but how convenient that many verses are ignored. Regardless how much they profess God, every single man that takes money is leading a cult of Satan, not God, who said feed my flock willingly, not for profit or gain. "Take ye no purse nor script and let God provide your means."
---ashley on 2/18/09|
The interest should be focused more on his teachings and less on his salary. The salary is irrelevant compared to the fact that masses of people revere him and heed his every word.
---Bobby3 on 2/18/09|
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"He takes no salary from his congregation". So he says.
---catherine on 2/17/09|
Joel Olsten is a good man who preaches peace and posperity , if god doesn't like
the fact that he is making money than he
will deal with him in the end. Please don't
worry yourself over these things.
---mary_louise_florez on 2/17/09|
Any pastor who becomes rich because of religion is not of God.
"Have I committed an offense in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?" (2Cor.11:7)
Paul said he humbled himself "that ye mght be exalted" because he preached the gospel freely. A true preacher of Christ does not make the word of God a commodity.
"And through covetousness shall they feigned words make merchandise of you..." (2Pet.2:3) -- These false preachers make their members as their sources of income.
And when the apostles preached to the gentiles they took nothing from the gentiles. "...they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles." (3Jhn.1:7)
---manny on 11/24/08|
Pastors are to feed the flock not fleece the flock.
There is something wrong when so called Pastors live in multi-million dollar homes, fly around in multi-million dollar private jets, and drive several very expensive vehicles.
When the people who follow their false teaching are living on food stamps and can't keep a roof over their heads because they give these false teachers all of their money.
---Rob on 11/22/08|
Robyn: I agree with your assessment of Osteen. I am reminded of the parable of the sower. Some seeds fell in rocky ground, and those sprang up immediately. However, lacking root, these seeds were scorched by the sun and quickly withered away. I believe Osteen is throwing seeds onto rocky soil.
Trey: I agree with you in that we cannot judge all 'mega churches' in general on the basis of a handful of particular examples. It's, I suppose, a stereotype. However, we may speak about Osteen's church and his style of preaching and critique him specifically. Osteen is not beyond scrutiny. In fact, according to the book of James, those in leadership and/or teaching roles are subject to GREATER judgment than the average individual.
---Bobby3 on 11/21/08|
You must understand a fact. People like to feel good, all of the time. This is what Joel Osteen does. He says positive things mixed with a few scriptures and he makes his people feel good. If you are a feel good addict, you will be drawn by his speeches. He has said many times he was not necessarily a preacher but a speaker)(motivational). He has mixed the gospel and this is very wrong. God's word should never be merchandised and used like that. He will have a lot to pay for one day. he will answer to God for what he is doing.
---Robyn on 11/18/08|
ive read through most of this blog and what everyone here has had to say about mega churches. or osteen or etc.
i personally feel like you cannot judge all mega churches by looking at 1 or 2, you would have to look at all churches, because the term mega church is man made, its just a church with a high attendance rate
---Trey on 11/18/08|
secondly yes everyone wants to be told their ok, but unless you who have legs to stand on to call someone a wolf in sheeps clothing, all your doing is spreding rumors.
osteen apparently has been blessed alot, as well as many other "mega" church leaders, but unless you go on a personal mission and find out the truth 'IF' they are doing something wrong, or leading people by their own wisdom, or just plain lying, then you have no right to slander their name. your tounge is a double edge sword, or in this case your fingers on your keyboard
---Trey on 11/18/08|
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The Bible is very explicit about the love of money (which makes me wonder how WoF teachers deal with verses like 1 Timothy 6:3-10).
But the money issue isn't the only problem with WoF. As outlined in my previous post, there are several other questionable WoF teachings.
---Bobby3 on 7/28/08|
ITimothy 6:3-10 means to us as Christians?
Jesus stated this fact very clearly,'My kingdom is NOT of this world'. These are the sound words of Christ. If the money were coming in and going out to meet needs, fine. But to take money in in order to 'build a kingdom' because God wants you rich would not be what Christ has called us to do.
ITim 6:5..."who suppose that godliness is a means of gain." How many preachers promise great wealth if you do what they say?
God doesn't promise financial gain, He promises a relationship with Him (worth more than all the wealth in the universe). Satan was the one who promised all the wealth of the world to Christ if he would bow down to him. Hmmmm.....sounds kind of familiar????
---thomas on 7/27/08|
Rickey: Allow me to clarify some of the points I made for the sake of ironing out some of these issues.
-God wants us rich.
What I meant to say was WoF teaches that God wants us rich in terms of money and earthly possession (which I disagree with). "Rich" doesn't always refer to money, it can refer to being rich SPIRITUALLY.
-Words have creative power.
True, GOD'S words have such power, but I am arguing that OUR words CANNOT create tangible reality in the same way (as WoF teaches).
-Faith is a force.
I don't see how the verses you reference show faith is a force.
-Jesus underwent spiritual death.
Jesus endured PHYSICAL death, not spiritual (going to hell and being tortured).
---Bobby3 on 7/25/08|
The truth is that we just don't know. We are really to be harmless as doves and wise as serpents. So, if we feel that this man may not be the truest teacher on the block, let's just pray for him, and also thank God in heaven that Mosques in this country are not growing at that rate. I mean, really, it's awesome to see that many people in church. Praise God for at least that. God will take everyone to the next step. My favorite verse: Be still and know that I am God. Amen.
---kate on 7/24/08|
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-God wants us to be rich (3RD JOHN2, 2Corinthians 8:9, Psalm 35:27)
-Words have creative power(Job 22:28, Genesis 1, Hebrews 11:3, Mark 11:23, Matthew 17:20, 21:21, Luke 17:6)
-Faith is a force(Hebrews 11:1,3,6)
-Jesus underwent spiritual death(2Corinthians 5:21, Isaiah 53:8, Colossians 1:18)
---Rickey on 7/24/08|
'---Here are some of the WoF teachings I've noticed in Osteen's message:
-God wants us to be rich---'
It is true I have heard that in his message. Once, he had a guy on his broadcast give his 'testimony'. This guy was laid off and bankrupt, but then got a job selling the HUGEST of SUV's. He bragged about how God blessed him with a $150K salary. Would he brag now that an oil shortage is threatening the US and entire world economy? What about the tens of thousands who are being laid off at SUV plants now? What if it was Gods will for him to sell the Prius (40+mpg) so that millions would not face starvation because we make fuel from food now?
---obewan on 7/24/08|
1 Timothy 6:3-10 sums up WoF and how should we should react: Stay away!
Donna: I agree with what you've said about Osteen. He is not a TYPICAL WoF teacher, but elements of WoF teachings are present in Osteen's message. It seems to me that Osteen knows little about theology IN GENERAL to be able to communicate it to those who listen to him, which may be the reason why it's not as obvious that what he teaches is WoF. Here are some of the WoF teachings I've noticed in Osteen's message:
-God wants us to be rich
-Words have creative power
-Faith is a force
-Jesus underwent spiritual death
---Bobby3 on 7/24/08|
I don't know. I see Osteen's ministry as one that preaches to Christians that are already supposed to know that they are to be obedient. So, it's not preaching the fire and brimstone of Turn or Burn. The issue is that he's not preaching to 100% crowd of highly mature christians, he's got the country's ear. So, I can see both sides of it. But I do have to say this, I've watched him quite a few times and I really feel that God spoke directly to me through his preaching. Just my two cents:)
---kate on 7/24/08|
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Joel Osteen's church is huge...in the thousands. He doesn't seem like the typical "Faith" teacher to me, but more along the lines of "you're OK, I'm OK, and God can't help but reward us". Is it any wonder people flock to his church? He makes them feel good about themselves! No need for him to be a overbearing leader like Jim Jones or the leader of the Branch Dividians. People will pay almost any amount to hear THAT kind of message.
---Donna on 7/24/08|
Amen Rob. Scripture does warn us of "wolves in sheep's clothing." We aren't to be made merchandise of as it says in II Peter Chapter 2, verse 3. I believe in faith and claiming the promises of God by faith, but making faith as simply a means to get rich, even if it means coercing people's savings for personal gain will cost any minister his soul.
---Theresa on 7/24/08|
It is so very sad there are so many people who are caught up in the FALSE TEACHINGS of the Word of Faith Movement.
I have learned you cannot reason with these people. If you share with people how Word of Faith teachings are in direct contradiction of what is written in scripture, the people who follow Word of Faith teachers become very hostile. This is an example of how they have become brainwashed. They accept what people say, but they reject God's Truths. This is evidence that what is written in John 3:19-21, and 2 Peter Chapter 2 is true.
However, I am encouraged and refreshed there are still a few people who know and will take a stand for God's Truths.
---Rob on 7/23/08|
We must be careful that we don't categorize every Christian leader as a "cult" leader. However, we must be mindful of the warning in II Peter Chapter 2,verse 3 that says "...they with feigned words make merchandise of you:..whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not." If money is the key focus and "campaigned" for with flattering words beware! "Feigned" in the scriptures means pretense or fake.
---Theresa on 7/22/08|
I am growing weary of all the prosperity theology and psychobabble that is permeating the church today. It is a sugar laden junk food diet at the end of the day.
so true mega churches are nothing more than a religious country club catering the wants and needs of people who are bored with life need social interaction and they will do it in the name of God as long as the message is pretty
I've read many of these mega church ministers blockbuster feel good books ...they are no different then any other self help book except they toss in a few scriptures for good measure ...scripture is used to support whatever message they want to give it isn't used in the true context of Gods Word and intended understanding
---Rhonda on 7/22/08|
I think it is none of our busines, but know he makes enough to live comfortably.However it is the members buisness to know how he handles the church money & where,l ike with the finacial commity.As long as the church funding is being met & he is not misusing the money , then his take home salary is N.O.O.B. (None of our business)our church is small with about 150 members not including visitors, & i got to sit in a board meeting this past week to discuss our new youth minister & how much the church is able to pay him, however what concerned me the most was "can he do the job"?not his take home pay.
---eve7583 on 7/22/08|
I don't know what he really earns in a year, but he came to our town to speak, and the 'tickets' were around $40-$50 dollars. If he were truly interested in evangelism, like Billy Graham, he would rent an auditorium, and take a free will offering instead. I am growing weary of all the prosperity theology and psychobabble that is permeating the church today. It is a sugar laden junk food diet at the end of the day. People need real spiritual meat in America today.
---obewan on 7/22/08|
Rob, I remember those people. It's so very sad when we are told the TRUTH is IN Jesus Christ.....not Jim Jones, or Benny Hinn etc, etc.
Jesus said I AM the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE. But so few in fact really understand the simplicity of those words.
The WORD of God((Who is the WORD of God??)) is living and powerful and sharper then a two edge sword....yet we allow false teachers to do the cutting, chewing, and digesting, as they spit what they chewed up beyond recognition into the mouths of babies with no taste buds...who will eat anything!!!!(as long as there are over 1,000,000 books sold) Yuck!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/22/08|
Does anyone remember Jim Jones, the Branch Davidians, and Waco, Texas.
Do you remember how the followers of these people were brainwashed.
The Word Of Faith Teachers are doing the exact same thing but on a much larger scale.
THESE PEOPLE ARE VERY DANGEROUS. THEY MUST BE EXPOSED FOR WHO THEY TRULY ARE.
---Rob on 7/22/08|
Rob: Nicely put synopsis of the WoF movement. To echo your advice, I encourage Christians to read up on WoF and the individuals who propagate its message.
---Bobby3 on 7/20/08|
Hello Yvonne. WoF is the Word of Faith Movement. It consists of a group FALSE TEACHERS (who distort, change, and pervert God's Truths as they are written in HIS WORD the BIBLE), for their own monetary and worldly gain.
These people tend be extortionist's who prey on people who are lacking in the knowledge of God's Truths. I put them all in the catagory of being a cult.
What is so sad is these people have "MEGA CHURCHES" which are packed with people.
Yvonne, I strongly encourage you to do research on the Word of Faith Movement. Learn who they are and what they really are about.
---Rob on 7/20/08|
What is WoF?
---Yvonne on 7/19/08|
Joel Osteen's message is very appealing to those who lack discernment. He is very good at saying things "itching ears want to hear" (2 Timothy 4:3) while avoiding issues like sin and judgment. For example, he once took a few verses from the book of Isaiah (out of context, BTW) and used them to build a very flowery, pleasant sermon. Anyone who has read Isaiah knows that much of the book tells of God's judgment upon the nations (including and especially Israel/Judah). Another issue with Joel Osteen is the fact that he is (which is maybe not terribly apparent) a WoF teacher.
---Bobby3 on 7/18/08|
He's a MAJOR CUTIE. That's how he rakes in the dough. He is no pastor, however. Just likes to pump people up so they, in turn, pump his wallet up. I do likehim, but not in a pastorial way.
---Yvonne on 7/17/08|
I wonder what would happen to JOs' crowd if he started to preach like Jesus did in the Bible...humm...probably the same thing that happened to Jesus' crowd in John 6:66 "From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." That happened because Jesus never was a motivational speaker. Although Jesus encouraged people many times, he never pampered people with nice words, just for the sake of pampering them. In fact the Bible say's that people looked upon him to be a respecter of no persons. I'm not judging brother Osteen, but I think the fact that crowds of people sit week after week and listen to that type of speaking only goes to show how (shallow) people have become in America. And I am a Pastor:)
---Barry on 7/16/08|
Joel actually waived his salary and the church kept it. It was around 200k annually. He makes most of his money from his books and then of course, investments, etc...
---Joe_B on 6/22/08|
I do not know, but if he belongs to God more power to him!
---catherine on 4/29/08|
The saying the "Love of money is the root of all evil," holds more true today than ever. A bunch of people coveting how much some preacher makes. I have found amoung 'christians' at least that the poor seem to love money much more than their rich counterparts. Most wealthy give much more as a % than others. They also don't seem obsessed with it, or worry who has more.
---dan on 4/29/08|
A curious question ...if you attend Joel's church and you're more concerned about his salary then the message I would say it's time to switch churches
if you don't attend his church why would it matter??
The point isn't really what he makes it's that most won't even make what he pays in taxes every year (avg salary in US is approx $45k yr)
for many that is their sin ...they're focusing on other people and their money ...focus is judging and condemning
---Rhonda on 4/28/08|
200000 a year
---robert on 4/28/08|
Tithing is not to the Church or to the pastor, it is a love offering to Christ that transends and predates the Levitical Law. Witholding your love (tithe) to Christ just because you want to make a point. Wow
---David on 2/4/08|
I read in a magazine that he makes 200,000 a year, but since his book has done so well he has refused the salary.
---Mark_Randall on 1/25/08|
When people talk about the degradation and moral decay of this country, most of the time I go, "oh, sure." But excessive profits in general, the excessive wealth of a few, the proverty of many, and the struggle to just survive of most, tells me this country has lost its moral compass. And no one needs a Bible to see that.
Profiteer preachers in this regard use religion just as another vehicle to make money.
---matthew on 11/1/07|
Thank You Robyn! god's people should be aware of how the gospel is being preached bec. the bible can be perverted like the teachings of Balaam. that is why christ was angry at the pharisee bec they put people in bondage, create stumbling blocks & put weight on their shoulders.
---jim on 11/1/07|
We all need to understand a fact: it is not the church that is at fault. It is the leaders who run these churches. They are greedy fat cats who fleece God's people. They want much and give very little back to the people who follow them. They are the only ones who reap the benefits. They become rich and have need of nothing, while the poor goes without.
---Robyn on 11/1/07|
to sue - there is a good essay about the tithe in the internet. type 'god for profit' and click the title 'Malachi 3-how they mis-interpreted tithes & offerings' the person explains who REALLY is robbing god, it is the priest that is described in this one.
---jim on 11/1/07|
Another reason i dont like religion. My son has a friend who lost his job. This friend is Catholic, although the type of religion doesn't matter, he faithfully gave the church 10%, 20% sometimes more. When he needed help with house payment the church said NO because if they helped him they'd have to help everyone who asked. Needless to say he stopped going to church and I hope his faith in God is not lost. My opinion: The Catholic church will never go broke helping poor people who truly need it.
---sue on 11/1/07|
Joel Osteen is filthy rich and does not need anymore money in this life or the next to come. I live in Houston. He has said he does not take a salary from the church anymore. He has been on talk shows promoting his books and talking about his salary.
---Robyn on 11/1/07|
I have seen pastors ignore the poor when they join a church. So folks, try this on for size- I tithe to the Voice of the Martyrs monthly, and any church I visit isn't going to be able to size me up for tithes, because unless a pastor proves him/herself true and earns my trust, they are not going to see a nickle from me. If Jesus isn't there, neither am I.
---Aggie on 10/31/07|
Christ DID NOT charge the people one cent when he was preaching the gospel! He did not store treasures on earth! Stop justifying your sins! Stop justifying your love of money! god commanded us to work, improve one's skills not to pervert & exploit the bible! Paul said the he did not peddle the gospel for profit!
---jim on 10/30/07|
I asked a pastor about self-confidence he told me-SIN- middle of sin is I, yet he has a fancy car & has a house.HE IS A HYPOCRITE-he does not practice what he preach.I is a sin yet he caters, decides, thinks for himSELF! Get a job pastors so you can understands the hell we exper at work - politics, overworked, underpaid-yet pastors rake in thousands of $$! tithe is to give for the poor, not into the pockets of pastors,then you pastors are so arrogant, self-righteous!
---kai on 10/30/07|
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Lori: Note in my earlier post that I said Warren's 10% is going to be alot. But, remember he is giving away the other 80%. A greedier person in the same position might be doing the opposite and living on the 80% and giving away the 10%.
---TT on 8/17/07|
TT . . . thanks for your post. When Rick Warren's book was so successful, he also paid back all the years of salary that his church had paid him! That had to be a substantial amount. I believe he is a man of integrity and certainly is not doing anything that could even be remotely called "fleecing the sheep."
---Gena8493 on 8/17/07|
TT: I understand what you are saying, but as a writer and published author myself, I wouldn't need money if I was a pastor either. J.K. Rowling made 3 billion dollars from writing Harry Potter. ten percent of that is 300 million dollars. of course Warren tells others he only lives on ten percent. if you make a million a year, what difference does a salary of 50,000 make. nothing, it is small change. don't let appearances deceive you or overlook what is hidden from your view.
---Lori on 8/17/07|
Read Pastor Rick Warren's, Purpose Driven Life. He no longer takes a salary from his church, yet continues to preach and lives on just 10 percent of the income from his books. Even after achieving int'l fame, he did not change his lifestyle one bit. Yes, his 10percent is probably alot, but I think it says alot about him as a man of God.
---TT on 8/16/07|
andrea. read the posts. men have profited from the blood of Jesus Christ and that is all it is. greed and power. ask them to work for God for nothing and they would quit instantly. they are being paid. they are on call 24-7 seven days a week for members of the congregation to call them with problems. if they say differently they should be fired instantly. leading a church is a lot more than giving two sermons on sunday.
---Lori on 8/16/07|
lori - again I challenge that - I think most preachers are righteous - not all -but most-what we see on tbn is Christian celebrities. I don't judge I think they are subject to far more temptation then I will ever be - I just don't like the cross being sold - if what they have is so good - why are they not giving to the poor?
---Andrea on 8/16/07|
Pastor_Steven: I totally agree with you. No problem. I have brother in laws and other relatives who pastor churches in the Houston area. Friends and so forth. My own father was a pastor here in Houston. They live well. They drive nice cars and live in nice homes. Some of them hold jobs and some do not but they all receive salaries from their churches. I don't agree with their doctrines and teachings but I don't despise anyone for how they live,however. That is their business.
---Robyn on 8/16/07|